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In the Name of God بسم الله

Khomeini and Wahdatul Wujood: Where?

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There is a hadith e qudsi in our books too and I remember this from Sheikh Farroh Sekaleshfar's lecture that Allah the most Glorious says that O ibn Adam when you kill your egoic self for Me then the

Imam Khomeini Ra works indicate that he believed in wahdatul wanood.You can read the Imam Khomeini s commentary on Surratul Hamad where he expresses the view that Indicates Khomeini believes wahdatul

Salam, Certain parts of belief in Sunnism contain the truth and some parts are questionable.  So take the parts that are ok and ignore those that are not ok. Same with Ibn Arabi.  On the iss

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

But when I saw our scholars praising SoFis like Rumi, Ibne Arabi, ba Yazeed bastami. Then who I am to disagree. 

Is it possible that those scholars can mistakes considering they are as fallible as me and you?

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19 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Is it possible that those scholars can mistakes considering they are as fallible as me and you?

But it was not the point of doing mistake or not. 

If you saying by studying in medical College one becomes doctor.

They sofis sturggled to tame the nafs and achieve a heart that loves non other than Allah.

Is it wrong . Why should someone deny. Loving Ahlebayt as maximum believing it's through Imam Ali one reachs to Allah.

Why should someone deny.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

I don't know what history you read to conclude that they were good. 

I don't say they were good or bad.

How many Ashabs name you know.

Do you know whom out them will go into Jannah and whom hehnam.

You might err.

What matters before Allah is how much one loves Allah more than anything.

Not what is your judgement on Ashabs.

Or any one else

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

That is Allah to judge.

The history reached to them was they were good and ashab of holy Prophet saw so they respected and Praised.

There are hundreds of personality whom we might like or dislike but we don't know what is there fate on qiyamah.

And nither we will be asked.

Out main outcome lies how much we love more than anything but Allah and not how much we fear Allah.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has also given us Aql to determine the truth from falsehood, and if you cannot differentiate between haq and batil, then the consequences can be severe in the hereafter. 

You cannot mix haq and batil as the sufis have, and also the the path that you have chosen

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, power said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has also given us Aql to determine the truth from falsehood, and if you cannot differentiate between haq and batil, then the consequences can be severe in the hereafter. 

You cannot mix haq and batil as the sufis have, and also the the path that you have chosen

The sofis don't nix haq with batil.

Wheather a sahba will go into Jannah or jehnam is not my pillar of Islam.

Do you know out of your friends and relatives how many will go into Jannah.

Even if your judgement about them proves right or wrong that hardly matters.

What is your judgement about Hz Maaz bin jabal.

Hz Abu Mussa ,

Hz Sad bin ABI wiqas etz

Edited by islam25
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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

If you saying by studying in medical College one becomes doctor

Yes, but the doctor can also make mistake. 

1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Is it wrong . Why should someone deny. Loving Ahlebayt as maximum believing it's through Imam Ali one reachs to Allah.

Why should someone deny.

Ask the Imam who have cursed them. For shi'as, Imam's (عليه السلام) word is everything and any scholar's word, belief or action doesn't mean anything in front of them. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, islam25 said:

I don't say they were good or bad.

How many Ashabs name you know.

Do you know whom out them will go into Jannah and whom hehnam.

You might err.

What matters before Allah is how much one loves Allah more than anything.

Not what is your judgement on Ashabs.

Or any one else

I only know what our imams (عليه السلام) says and history says about particulars ones and anyone should not give any respect to them. And im not talking about who goes where. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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5 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

I only know what our imams (عليه السلام) says and history says about particulars ones and anyone should not give any respect to them. And im not talking about who goes where. 

What about khamnai who said talking bad to ashabs is haram.

I too know what our Imams said.

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21 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes, but the doctor can also make mistake. 

Ask the Imam who have cursed them. For shi'as, Imam's (عليه السلام) word is everything and any scholar's word, belief or action doesn't mean anything in front of them. 

So what did Imam said about lover of Allah.

And Imam has said too many things.

 

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26 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes, but the doctor can also make mistake. 

Ask the Imam who have cursed them. For shi'as, Imam's (عليه السلام) word is everything and any scholar's word, belief or action doesn't mean anything in front of them. 

Do not forsake certainty for doubt, and what is clear for what is hidden. Do not pass judgement on what you cannot see because of something you are told about it. Allah despises slander and bad opinion of your believing brothers. What then does He think of boldness in attributing a false statement, false belief or lie to the Companions of the Messenger of Allah?
 
As He said,
 

إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُم مَّا لَيْسَ لَكُم بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ

 

When you welcomed it with your tongues, and spoke with your mouths that which you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous. (24:15)

 
As long as you can find a way to speak well and act well of people whether or not they are present. Do not do anything else. Allah said,
 

وَقُولُواْ لِلنَّاسِ حُسْناً

Speak to men good words. (2:83)

 
Know that Allah chose companions for His Prophet, honoured them with the noblest mark of honour and robed them in the robe of support, victory and the correct keeping of his company in desirable and undesirable situations. He made the tongue of His Prophet speak about their virtues, excellent qualities and marks of honour; so believe in their love, mention their excellence, and beware of the company of people of innovation, for it will make disbelief and clear loss grow in the heart. If the excellence of some of them is not clear to you, then leave them to the Knower of the Unseen, and say, 'O Allah, I love anyone You and Your Messenger love, and I hate anyone You and Your Messenger hate.' There is no obligation beyond that.

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15 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What about khamnai who said talking bad to ashabs is haram.

I too know what our Imams said.

No one should talk insult about them, that is not what I imply. Whatever bad they did is there recorded and so are our Imams statement about their state in hereafter. 

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7 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Do not forsake certainty for doubt, and what is clear for what is hidden. Do not pass judgement on what you cannot see because of something you are told about it. Allah despises slander and bad opinion of your believing brothers. What then does He think of boldness in attributing a false statement, false belief or lie to the Companions of the Messenger of Allah?
 
As He said,
 

إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُم مَّا لَيْسَ لَكُم بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ

 

When you welcomed it with your tongues, and spoke with your mouths that which you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous. (24:15)

 
As long as you can find a way to speak well and act well of people whether or not they are present. Do not do anything else. Allah said,
 

وَقُولُواْ لِلنَّاسِ حُسْناً

Speak to men good words. (2:83)

 
Know that Allah chose companions for His Prophet, honoured them with the noblest mark of honour and robed them in the robe of support, victory and the correct keeping of his company in desirable and undesirable situations. He made the tongue of His Prophet speak about their virtues, excellent qualities and marks of honour; so believe in their love, mention their excellence, and beware of the company of people of innovation, for it will make disbelief and clear loss grow in the heart. If the excellence of some of them is not clear to you, then leave them to the Knower of the Unseen, and say, 'O Allah, I love anyone You and Your Messenger love, and I hate anyone You and Your Messenger hate.' There is no obligation beyond that.

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He means the good ones, not those who did not accept Imam Ali wilayah when it is wajib for all of them. 

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18 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

No one should talk insult about them, that is not what I imply. Whatever bad they did is there recorded and so are our Imams statement about their state in hereafter. 

What I mean Islam is believing in Allah ,Prophet saw and Ahlebayt as.

If someone respect Adhab we don't think we're righteous, does make him bad

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

The sofis don't nix haq with batil.

Wheather a sahba will go into Jannah or jehnam is not my pillar of Islam.

Do you know out of your friends and relatives how many will go into Jannah.

Even if your judgement about them proves right or wrong that hardly matters.

What is your judgement about Hz Maaz bin jabal.

Hz Abu Mussa ,

Hz Sad bin ABI wiqas etz

Bibi Fatima (sa) died in state of anger with some companions that caused her pain, Sufis praise these same companions that caused her grief. And for you this is a matter of no consideration?

Furthermore a hadith from the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said: whoever angers my famliy, angers me, and whoever angers me, angers Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

Sufis including those who you praise the likes of Ibn Arabi want to show your love and devotion to Allah? What kind hypocritical love is this when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is angry against  those who has caused grief against the purified famliy of the Prophet((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) 

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19 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

You are simply presenting an excuse for why there isn’t such amazing contribution from your eleventh Imam we can point to and say how wonderful were his intellectual contributions to humanity. Whether that excuse is legitimate or not isn’t the issue. The issue is, as you admit, that your eleventh Imam simply did not make such a great intellectual contribution to humanity or even to Islam, although you believe that is the basic function of an Imam.

So it is natural that the Twelver Shi’ah are forced to look to other figures and sources to quench their thirst for knowledge, enlightenment and intellectual stimulation. Although Sirius Bright was correct from a dogmatic perspective that based on Twelver doctrine Twelvers should never bother reading or appreciating anything that doesn’t come from their Twelve Imams.

As far as Twelver doctrine is concerned, the twelve Imams were the most knowledgeable creation that ever existed. The great geniuses of human history like Einstein, Hawking, Newton, and the other great figures that contributed to philosophy, science, and development, are, according to your doctrine, nothing compared to the twelve Imams.

My point is that making such a claim is the easy part. Anyone can claim this, but how will you practically demonstrate it to be true. I only mentioned your eleventh Imam as an example, but the same is true about many of your Imams, we have barely any kind of great intellectual contribution from them in any field, your tenth imam, your ninth imam, and your eighth imam.

This casts massive doubt on the Twelver doctrine.

A hadith from the Ahl Al Bayt(Peace be upon them) says "The greatest knowledge you can have is knowing what your religion is and knowing who your Lord(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is." 

Given your shallow and hollow logic. "As far as Twelver doctrine is concerned, the twelve Imams were the most knowledgeable creation that ever existed. The great geniuses of human history like Einstein, Hawking, Newton, and the other great figures that contributed to philosophy, science, and development, are, according to your doctrine, nothing compared to the twelve Imams." -> Why aren't you abandoning the Prophets(S.W)((عليه السلام)) of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) ? I don't see many ahadith from them describing the same things like Nuclear Physics the aforementioned geniuses of hisory have contributed to human history. Why is this? Because the Prophet(S.W) and previous Prophets(عليه السلام). They were there to guide humanity to the correct religion and eliminate ignorance. Our Imams((عليه السلام)) had the same mission in life to guide humanity to the correct religion and eliminate ignorance. The Prophet(S.W) had already introduced Islam as the correct religion. Our Imams((عليه السلام)) simply defended the religion and the legacy of the Prophet(SW) whether it was through the battles of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)). The sacrifice of Imam Hussain((عليه السلام)). All our Imams((عليه السلام)) contributed to Islamic knowledge and the knowledge that brings you closer to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) including our 11th Imam((عليه السلام)). Your fiqh also comes from us, through Imam Jafar((عليه السلام)). If He(عليه السلام) did not teach your Abu Hanifa and Malikis, then who exactly would you take your madhab from? This is why you Sunnis are always so desperate to paint our Imams((عليه السلام)) as Sunnis(God forbid) and attempt to always re-write history because you know where all that knowledge of jurisprudence came from.

Second thing I'll say, In Islam women can wear gold. Men cannot. There is really no clear cut answer for this aside from the main one "men shouldnt look like women, vice versa. etc". I once read this article on Facebook which said that when you wear Gold, it leads to the production of more blood cells where they also showcased some scientific study. Now I don't know if that's true or not nor I have access to that article anymore but for the sake of our Arguement, let's just assume it's true just as an example. Let's say that is really the logic behind the only women can wear gold rule because women bleed and gold can assist in recovery(whatever the logic of the article was) How would you have explained this to the people of 630 AD and so on? Our Prophet(S.W) and Imams((عليه السلام)) only kept the concepts and explainations which people of that time can comprehend and understand. Imam Jafar((عليه السلام)) was an Imam in the 700's AD era where people had apparently matured since then and were beginning to understand science/medicine which is why He((عليه السلام)) taught people those subjects according to what they could understand and comprehend.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, power said:

Bibi Fatima (sa) died in state of anger with some companions that caused her pain, Sufis praise these same companions that caused her grief. And for you this is a matter of no consideration?

Furthermore a hadith from the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said: whoever angers my famliy, angers me, and whoever angers me, angers Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

Sufis including those who you praise the likes of Ibn Arabi want to show your love and devotion to Allah? What kind hypocritical love is this when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is angry against  those who has caused grief against the purified famliy of the Prophet((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) 

You don't get  It is how history has reached to them.

There are many version of historic events. Something that you feel is authentic.

But in there version of history that is not authentic so how to judge.

Just like till few years back I used to here marriage of Hz qQasim on day of Ashura.

But now scholars says this not authentic , no marriage of Qasim happened on Ashura.

So don't declear whose love is pure and whose is hypocritical.

Lets keep something to declear Allah.

I may add Khomeini, Tabatabaie and Qadhi, Haaanzadeh Amoli were not ordinary person who praised ibne Arabi. Leave lbne Arabi , just do some research on them.

Edited by islam25
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On 9/29/2020 at 12:41 AM, power said:

This Hadith in  Bukhari that narrates the Prophet  said “Allah created Adam in his image. is the hadith that Ibn al-‘Arabi uses as grounds to justify his “perfect man” philosophy.

What is wrong in it.

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10 minutes ago, islam25 said:

You don't get  It is how history has reached to them.

There are many version of historic events. Something that you feel is authentic.

But in there version of history that is not authentic so how to judge.

Just like till few years back I used to here marriage of Hz qQasim on day of Ashura.

But now scholars says this not authentic , no marriage of Qasim happened on Ashura.

So don't declear whose love is pure and whose is hypocritical.

Lets keep something to declear Allah.

I may add Khomeini, Tabatabaie and Qadhi, Haaanzadeh Amoli were not ordinary person who praised ibne Arabi. Leave lbne Arabi , just do some research on them.

This is true history can be manipulated fabricated and so on. So this is why we have historians who laboriously  screen   through historical occurrences, differentiating between what is fabrication and what is the truth.

So not every event in history is fictitious, Bibi Fafima (sa) event in history is backed up by many authentic sources. 

You can deny it reject it, but it does not change the true reality of the event. And when I used the term Hypocritical in the context that i did, it was appropriate for the people of you understanding.  

 

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https://m.facebook.com/14Faith/posts/733460440409837

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In al-Fass al-Idreesiya of Fusus, ibn Arabi states the following:
Allah appeared as Adam; and He also appeared as Eve; so He had sex with Himself. (Yes, you read it right, he says that).

 

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6 hours ago, power said:

This is true history can be manipulated fabricated and so on. So this is why we have historians who laboriously  screen   through historical occurrences, differentiating between what is fabrication and what is the truth.

So not every event in history is fictitious, Bibi Fafima (sa) event in history is backed up by many authentic sources. 

You can deny it reject it, but it does not change the true reality of the event. And when I used the term Hypocritical in the context that i did, it was appropriate for the people of you understanding from 

 

I think you don't get what I say.you have to believe what from your books you feel is authentic.

They have to believe what is authentic in their books.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, power said:

Did Allah create Adam in gods Image to begin with?

 

 

34 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Yes,

Read this analysis, our hadiths do not support this notion:

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/10/hadeeth-allaah-created-adam-in-his.html
 

However, the opposition to this might be that Allah had no “image”. 

Edited by 313_Waiter
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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

Read this analysis, our hadiths do not support this notion:

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/10/hadeeth-allaah-created-adam-in-his.html
 

However, the opposition to this might be that Allah had no “image”. 

Husayn ibn Khalid says, “I said to Hadrat Rida (A), ‘O Son of the Messenger of God, the people narrate that the Messenger of God (A) said, “God created Adam in His own image.” ‘The Imam said, ‘God damn them! They have omitted the first part of the tradition. The Messenger of God (S) passed by two men who were abusing each other. The Prophet heard one of them say to his companion, “May God disfigure your face and of everyone who looks like you!” Thereat the Messenger of God (S) said, “O servant of God! Don’t say that to your brother, for God, Almighty and Glorious, created Adam in his (His) image.”‘2

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Husayn ibn Khalid says, “I said to Hadrat Rida (A), ‘O Son of the Messenger of God, the people narrate that the Messenger of God (A) said, “God created Adam in His own image.” ‘The Imam said, ‘God damn them! They have omitted the first part of the tradition. The Messenger of God (S) passed by two men who were abusing each other. The Prophet heard one of them say to his companion, “May God disfigure your face and of everyone who looks like you!” Thereat the Messenger of God (S) said, “O servant of God! Don’t say that to your brother, for God, Almighty and Glorious, created Adam in his (His) image.”‘2

Yes so it doesn’t say Allah’s image it says Adam’s own image (if you read the arabic).

Edited by 313_Waiter
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14 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Yes so it doesn’t say Allah’s image it says Adam’s own image (if you read the arabic).

I am not Arabic knowing person.But the translator has translated it His image ie Allahs.

The soul that Adam was Allahs.So what is problem if we have to believe human is in the Image of Allah.

Did Quran say where ever you turn there is face of Allah.

We need to understand these narrations and verses of Quran deeply to understand it's reality.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

I am not Arabic knowing person.But the translator has translated it His image ie Allahs.

The soul that Adam was Allahs.So what is problem if we have to believe human is in the Image of Allah.

Did Quran say where ever you turn there is face of Allah.

We need to understand these narrations and verses of Quran deeply to understand it's reality.

The imam (عليه السلام) is saying “God damn them” who doesn’t understand the true meaning of what the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said. If you read the translation the h in his is small so it isn’t referring to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

The imam (عليه السلام) is saying “God damn them” who doesn’t understand the true meaning of what the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said. If you read the translation the h in his is small so it isn’t referring to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

What is the real meaning ?

Imam Ali said I don't see any thing but Allah, in it, before it and after it.

 

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10 hours ago, Guest Spiderman said:

https://m.facebook.com/14Faith/posts/733460440409837

Quote

In al-Fass al-Idreesiya of Fusus, ibn Arabi states the following:
Allah appeared as Adam; and He also appeared as Eve; so He had sex with Himself. (Yes, you read it right, he says that).

Astaghfirullah! 

Why do we need to follow this garbage

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4 hours ago, islam25 said:

What is the real meaning ?

 

 

Adam was made in his (own) image so no one should say “May Allah disfigure your face”.

 

3 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Astaghfirullah! 

Why do we need to follow this garbage

Maybe we can take the good (if there is any and it does not contradict with Qur’an and Ahlulbayt) and leave the garbage? There are several ‘ulema who followed his teachings and still do.

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37 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:
4 hours ago, islam25 said:

 

Adam was made in his (own) image so no one should say “May Allah disfigure your face”.

No translator has said His own image.

You didn't reply.

What is meaning of when Imam Ali said I' don't see a thing but Allah in it before it and after it.

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2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Maybe we can take the good (if there is any and it does not contradict with Qur’an and Ahlulbayt) and leave the garbage? There are several ‘ulema who followed his teachings and still do.

Sorry, I'm not taking any risk. Only thing hujjat on us is Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) and their teachings. If I'm getting all things and very best from Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام), why should I go to someone like Ibne Arabi. 

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