Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Khomeini and Wahdatul Wujood: Where?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
Just now, power said:

Enlightenment comes from Quran Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) both are divine. 

Who denied it . Definitely that true.

 .Now some followed Quran and Ahlebayt as and got enlighted.

Why should I fell bad or criticise or oppose him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 180
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

There is a hadith e qudsi in our books too and I remember this from Sheikh Farroh Sekaleshfar's lecture that Allah the most Glorious says that O ibn Adam when you kill your egoic self for Me then the

Imam Khomeini Ra works indicate that he believed in wahdatul wanood.You can read the Imam Khomeini s commentary on Surratul Hamad where he expresses the view that Indicates Khomeini believes wahdatul

Salam, Certain parts of belief in Sunnism contain the truth and some parts are questionable.  So take the parts that are ok and ignore those that are not ok. Same with Ibn Arabi.  On the iss

  • Veteran Member
Just now, Hadi5 said:

Who denied it . Definitely that true.

 .Now some followed Quran and Ahlebayt as and got enlighted.

Why should I fell bad or criticise or oppose him.

Imams (عليه السلام) are guided by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), in every aspect in guiding mankind, where as Ibn Arabi is not. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, power said:

Imams (عليه السلام) are guided by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), in every aspect in guiding mankind, where as Ibn Arabi is not. 

Sorry brother.

Forgive me.you are right.

Wa Salam.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
16 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Sorry brother.

Forgive me.you are right.

Wa Salam.

Please read this in your own time.

the hadith by Abu Huraira in that Allah created Prophet Adam in his own image is very interesting to say the least, 

This Hadith in  Bukhari that narrates the Prophet  said “Allah created Adam in his image. is the hadith that Ibn al-‘Arabi uses as grounds to justify his “perfect man” philosophy.

Ibn al-‘Arabi  states  Adam’s creation of God image,  he did not see a danger of anthropomorphic reduction of God but, rather, grounds for a theomorphic exaltation of the Perfect Man.

Ibn Arabi believes the “perfect man” and God are linked. Like looking at one’s reflection in a mirror, a person cannot truly see himself without perfecting their attributes. And once these attributes are perfected, God, in return, perceives Himself through “the perfect man.” This concept is  articulated in Ibn-al’Arabi’s The Bezels of Wisdom when he writes: “God worships me and I worship Him

Edited by power
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

'God worships me', really? And people want to follow this heretic. 

 

3 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

'God worships me', really? And people want to follow this heretic. 

This concept is quite prevalent in Sufism, to become part of god hence calling it Wahdatul Wujood

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
16 minutes ago, power said:

This concept is quite prevalent in Sufism, to become part of god hence calling it Wahdatul Wujood

Yes, and some of the shi'a scholars have endorsed it while some are totally against it. No wonder our Aimma (عليهم اسلام) has cursed these people and warned us against them. 

Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) called Sufis as enemies of Ahl al-Bayt (عليه السلام) and regarded those inclined toward them as to be resurrected with them and said, “Soon a group of people who claim to love us will incline toward the Sufis, assimilate to them, name themselves after them, and justify their sayings; whoever is inclined towards them is not from us and I am averse to them.” (Al-Ithna ‘Ashariyya, p. 32)

https://www.al-islam.org/story-sun-look-imam-al-ridha-life-sayyid-muhammad-najafi-yazdi/imam-al-ridhas-cultural-measures

Edited by Sirius_Bright
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
5 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes, and some of the shi'a scholars have endorsed it while some are totally against it. No wonder our Aimma (عليهم اسلام) has cursed these people and warned us against them. 

Imam al-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) called Sufis as enemies of Ahl al-Bayt ((عليه السلام).) and regarded those inclined toward them as to be resurrected with them and said, “Soon a group of people who claim to love us will incline toward the Sufis, assimilate to them, name themselves after them, and justify their sayings; whoever is inclined towards them is not from us and I am averse to them.” (Al-Ithna ‘Ashariyya, p. 32)

https://www.al-islam.org/story-sun-look-imam-al-ridha-life-sayyid-muhammad-najafi-yazdi/imam-al-ridhas-cultural-measures

Though they are pacifist, (Sufis) If one exams their doctrine intricately, you will find its a amalgamation of many sets of different ideas. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
1 hour ago, power said:

 

Ibn Arabi believes the “perfect man” and God are linked. Like looking at one’s reflection in a mirror, a person cannot truly see himself without perfecting their attributes. And once these attributes are perfected, God, in return, perceives Himself through “the perfect man.” This concept is  articulated in Ibn-al’Arabi’s The Bezels of Wisdom when he writes: “God worships me and I worship Him

There is a hadith e qudsi in our books too and I remember this from Sheikh Farroh Sekaleshfar's lecture that Allah the most Glorious says that O ibn Adam when you kill your egoic self for Me then the blood money falls upon Me and so I become the eyes by which you see and become the tongue through which you talk and become the hands through which you do things etc and so much so that it is then I who takes your ruh when you die and not the angel of death.  (Paraphrased as I remember)

 

What one has to realize is that these attributes and functions fall in the vertical arch and in that the closest is Rasool Allah(sawws) in having those attributes as near as they could be, Ibn Arabi etc are on a much lower rung/step of that ladder and I believe most of the sufis in their theory have Imam Ali(عليه السلام) on the highest step just below the Prophet(sawws) as he acquired all the knowledge from Rasool Allah(sawws). Hence they also believe in that Wilaya in their own understanding. 

 

No scholar of ours finds Ibn Arabi perfect and disagree with him on various points but feel that he has explained the best as any normal human(does not include the infallibles ) would and that that he is widely misunderstood.  Knowledge and understanding has to expand otherwise why would one have Tafsir Al Mizan etc. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Are there people believed to be Arifs who took the Imams Only approach? A big reason why I'm hesitant to completely dismiss people like Ibn Arabi is that extremely respectable people like Tabadabai and Bahjat studied his works. And I'm sure they have more love for Ahlulbayt in their pinkies than all of us do with our entire souls. I'm not making a point or argument, just asking a question.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

I'm not making a point or argument, just asking a question.

I advise you to read one of his book "Fusus Al-Hakam". You would need a teacher who can first teach you the terminologies used in each "Fus" of that book. 

@haideriam has highlighted the matter correctly. There exist always a capacity of betterment and expansion in any understanding. So we need to go through the views of Ibn Arabi first and then we will be qualified to say something about his work.

Following is the link where a Sunni Scholar Ahmed Javed is explaining first chapter of "Fusus al-Hakam". It is in Urdu language.

@Cherub786, do you know the speaker in above video?

Edited by Cool
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Those who can understand Urdu can know through above video, how it is getting difficult for a teahcer & scholar like Ahmed Javed to explain the views of Ibn Arabi. 

He is mentioning several problematic issues in Fusus Al-Hakam.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
20 minutes ago, Cool said:

Those who can understand Urdu can know through above video, how it is getting difficult for a teahcer & scholar like Ahmed Javed to explain the views of Ibn Arabi. 

He is mentioning several problematic issues in Fusus Al-Hakam.

Is he pro or against him?

should I watch the full series?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Cool said:

I advise you to read one of his book "Fusus Al-Hakam". You would need a teacher who can first teach you the terminologies used in each "Fus" of that book. 

@haideriam has highlighted the matter correctly. There exist always a capacity of betterment and expansion in any understanding. So we need to go through the views of Ibn Arabi first and then we will be qualified to say something about his work.

Following is the link where a Sunni Scholar Ahmed Javed is explaining first chapter of "Fusus al-Hakam". It is in Urdu language.

@Cherub786, do you know the speaker in above video?

Great.What a deep and extraordinary lecture.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
8 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Are there people believed to be Arifs who took the Imams Only approach? A big reason why I'm hesitant to completely dismiss people like Ibn Arabi is that extremely respectable people like Tabadabai and Bahjat studied his works. And I'm sure they have more love for Ahlulbayt in their pinkies than all of us do with our entire souls. I'm not making a point or argument, just asking a question.

There is nothing wrong to study his works. It is easier for scholars and those who have studied this field to understand such a works and realize if something is truth and something false.

Edited by Abu Nur
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

He is pro Ibne Arabi.

I don't think so.

If you just listen to the above llecture, he has pointed out some serious issues in it and has raised some logical questions. He even challenged the idea of "ilham" as presented by Sufi's. He said it is not more than dhan (ظن). 

 

Edited by Cool
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
6 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

should I watch the full series

I suggest you to listen full lecture first. The lecturer is a Sunni scholar and a teacher of philosophy, very learned & respected man. 

From 50 min onwards, he has discussed the serious issues & has raised some important questions. 

I think @Cherub786 will enjoy how he has explained kashaf & ilham in his lecture.

Edited by Cool
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Cool said:

I don't think so.

If you just listen to the above llecture, he has pointed out some serious issues in it and has raised some logical questions. He even challenged the idea of "ilham" as presented by Sufi's. He said it is not more than dhan (ظن). 

 

I have heared his many lecures..He praises and promotes the Ibne Arabis view on Adam and other Prophets. But yes at few points he disagrees and even says its possible that some of lines of book might be inserted others and is not of Ibne Arabi

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
On 9/27/2020 at 8:01 PM, layman said:

Salam,

Certain parts of belief in Sunnism contain the truth and some parts are questionable.  So take the parts that are ok and ignore those that are not ok.

Maybe we don't understand Ibn Arabi like many Shia Ariffs who studied the works of Ibn Arabi.

This is all that needs to be said.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I wonder how Ibn Arabi was able to make such serious blunders. Imagine if a master painter accidentally drew a crude smiley face in crayon. Was he led astray because he didn't use the Ahlul-Bayt as a guide? Irfan say that you have to approach Irfan in a specific and delicate way. And I hear that a lot of Irfan go crazy, do weird things like stop praying, and flat out become kafirs. 

 

My friend told me of 2 cases of people he knew. One of them read a bit of I think Ibn Arabi, then for some weeks he started to barely pray. He would pray little and say that he felt it was enough. Another person did some sort of 40 day regiment that's meant to elevate you (something like avoid eating this, recite this, etc) and he literally went insane. I think both people have recovered, the latter person probably not as much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
On 9/28/2020 at 9:38 PM, haideriam said:

There is a hadith e qudsi in our books too and I remember this from Sheikh Farroh Sekaleshfar's lecture that Allah the most Glorious says that O ibn Adam when you kill your egoic self for Me then the blood money falls upon Me and so I become the eyes by which you see and become the tongue through which you talk and become the hands through which you do things etc and so much so that it is then I who takes your ruh when you die and not the angel of death.  (Paraphrased as I remember)

 

What one has to realize is that these attributes and functions fall in the vertical arch and in that the closest is Rasool Allah(sawws) in having those attributes as near as they could be, Ibn Arabi etc are on a much lower rung/step of that ladder and I believe most of the sufis in their theory have Imam Ali(عليه السلام) on the highest step just below the Prophet(sawws) as he acquired all the knowledge from Rasool Allah(sawws). Hence they also believe in that Wilaya in their own understanding. 

 

No scholar of ours finds Ibn Arabi perfect and disagree with him on various points but feel that he has explained the best as any normal human(does not include the infallibles ) would and that that he is widely misunderstood.  Knowledge and understanding has to expand otherwise why would one have Tafsir Al Mizan etc. 

Many people dont know that Sufis only pay lip service to Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) Sufis in general regardless from which  Tariqa they belong to,  they do not desire to follow Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) All Tariqas of Sufisim are interested in seeking the pathways of master (The companions) and not the Haq of Ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) As I said in my earlier post, Sufism is amalgamation of Haq and Batil, no different from the Sunni creed, they also say  Razi Allah to righteous and  Razi Allah upon the  deviant And Ibn Arabi  was no different parsing the deviants.

The Shi’i philosophers do not endorse Ibn’Arabi’s extremist conception of Irfan! inherent in Shi`ism is all we need in this regards. That is,  we turn to the original sources, the words of the Ahlul -Bayt (عليه السلام) and the Quran, and we have more than an enough material for over a life's work of contemplation. and so on.

The true Irfrans is the ones who has understanding/ giudance  from the Imams (عليه السلام) This is what I consider a true Irfan this is why it is pivotal to hold  fast to the Quran and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) And not any contentious person like Ibn Arabi.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/28/2020 at 12:11 AM, El Cid said:

Salam,

Please do not make such ignorant statements nor ask insulting questions like that. Please cure your ignorance by educating yourself on History. Our 11th Imam((عليه السلام)) spent most of his life in an Abbasid prison which is why we he is known as Imam Hasan Al Askari(عليه السلام). He was also martyred at the young age of 28. How would he have taught all those things in such difficult circumstances? Even His((عليه السلام)) followers couldn't reach him due to his imprisonment. Imam Jafar((عليه السلام)) taught all those things in His((عليه السلام)) school. Our later Imams((عليه السلام)) all had the capabilities to teach great things to humanity but please read about the difficult circumstances they were placed in. They((عليه السلام)) didn't have a proper chance to do great things but they managed to leave gems of wisdom for us nevertheless which is even more impressive given what things They((عليه السلام)) had to go through on a daily basis. 

You are simply presenting an excuse for why there isn’t such amazing contribution from your eleventh Imam we can point to and say how wonderful were his intellectual contributions to humanity. Whether that excuse is legitimate or not isn’t the issue. The issue is, as you admit, that your eleventh Imam simply did not make such a great intellectual contribution to humanity or even to Islam, although you believe that is the basic function of an Imam.

So it is natural that the Twelver Shi’ah are forced to look to other figures and sources to quench their thirst for knowledge, enlightenment and intellectual stimulation. Although Sirius Bright was correct from a dogmatic perspective that based on Twelver doctrine Twelvers should never bother reading or appreciating anything that doesn’t come from their Twelve Imams.

As far as Twelver doctrine is concerned, the twelve Imams were the most knowledgeable creation that ever existed. The great geniuses of human history like Einstein, Hawking, Newton, and the other great figures that contributed to philosophy, science, and development, are, according to your doctrine, nothing compared to the twelve Imams.

My point is that making such a claim is the easy part. Anyone can claim this, but how will you practically demonstrate it to be true. I only mentioned your eleventh Imam as an example, but the same is true about many of your Imams, we have barely any kind of great intellectual contribution from them in any field, your tenth imam, your ninth imam, and your eighth imam.

This casts massive doubt on the Twelver doctrine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/28/2020 at 1:29 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

The 14 we always talk about are authority from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and they are infallibles. So, it is only logical that an infallible divine representative of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will demonstrate correct beliefs as opposed to self-proclaimed mystics narrating his own whims that go against the teachings of Islam. 

Regarding your other question, our Aimma (عليهم اسلام) taught all the required things about Islam. They discussed tawheed and other sciences at length. They gave us beautiful supplications. One thing that also mattered was intellect of the people of his time. They were not ready to take in many advanced stuff that would have impacted humanity at much earlier stage. An eg: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) asked on Minbar, 'Ask me before you loose me'. A man rose before him and said: "Tell me how many pieces of hair there are on my head and my beard?" (Kitab al-Irshad). Why would someone even teach advance stuff to such stupid people. Still Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) used to have classes regarding different subjects. 

As usual, you're trying to digress the topic. 

All your arguments are based on unproven premises. It’s easy to claim that your twelve Imams were the ultimate repositories of divine knowledge and absolute truth. Many Sufis claim the same thing about their Mashayikh. Sikhs claim the same thing about their ten Gurus. Hindus claim the same thing about their Rishis. The question is how can any of these claims be evaluated and verified?

I definitely respect Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq رحمة الله عليه. He was undoubtedly a knowledgeable jurist and had a keen legal mind. But according to your doctrine, all of your Imams have the greatest knowledge of the entire creation. These were individuals that should have discovered things like gravity, should have discussed nuclear fissure and explained how to harness electricity as a power source. If you say that wasn’t their purpose and trivialize such fields of knowledge, then at least point to some great masterpiece of theology or religious sciences that these Imams produced?

Ghazali wrote many amazing intellectual works especially Incoherence of the Philosophers. A Shi’ite on this forum @Follower of Ahlulbayt relies heavily on the works of Thomas Aquinas for theology and metaphysics. Where is the alternative fountain of knowledge and ma'rifah from your Imams? What great intellectual contribution did Imam Muhammad al-Jawwad رحمة الله عليه make for the Ummah or for humanity at large?

It is quite evident this is merely Twelver dogma. Even non-Muslim intellectuals have never recognized the intellectual contribution of your twelve Imams in any field. They acknowledge many great Sunni, Mu'tazilite and Sufi figures, but where have they every acknowledged the greatness of Imam Muhammad al-Jawwad or Imam Ali al-Naqi? Please be honest and consider this with an open mind.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
6 hours ago, power said:

Many people dont know that Sufis only pay lip service to Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) Sufis in general regardless from which  Tariqa they belong to,  they do not desire to follow Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) All Tariqas of Sufisim are interested in seeking the pathways of master (The companions) and not the Haq of Ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) As I said in my earlier post, Sufism is amalgamation of Haq and Batil, no different from the Sunni creed, they also say  Razi Allah to righteous and  Razi Allah upon the  deviant And Ibn Arabi  was no different parsing the deviants.

The Shi’i philosophers do not endorse Ibn’Arabi’s extremist conception of Irfan! inherent in Shi`ism is all we need in this regards. That is,  we turn to the original sources, the words of the Ahlul -Bayt (عليه السلام) and the Quran, and we have more than an enough material for over a life's work of contemplation. and so on.

The true Irfrans is the ones who has understanding/ giudance  from the Imams (عليه السلام) This is what I consider a true Irfan this is why it is pivotal to hold  fast to the Quran and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) And not any contentious person like Ibn Arabi.

I think you should revisit the the saying and poetry of SoFis about Ahlebayt as.The sofi masters have extraordinaryly praised Ahlebayt as.

I feel it is true SoFis who uphold the love and willayah of Imam Ali.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
6 hours ago, power said:

The true Irfrans is the ones who has understanding/ giudance  from the Imams (عليه السلام) This is what I consider a true Irfan this is why it is pivotal to hold  fast to the Quran and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) And not any contentious person like Ibn Arab

If you were an Arif then definitely your say had value.

But the true Arifs like Mohamad Hussain Tabatabaie , Imam Khomeini, Ayatullah Hassan zadeh Amoli recognise the Ibne Arabi was Arif and had deep knowledge of Quran.

So it is what above scholars and Arits say had value not common person who doesn't have knowledge of subject.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
5 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

All your arguments are based on unproven premises. It’s easy to claim that your twelve Imams were the ultimate repositories of divine knowledge and absolute truth. Many Sufis claim the same thing about their Mashayikh. Sikhs claim the same thing about their ten Gurus. Hindus claim the same thing about their Rishis. The question is how can any of these claims be evaluated and verified?

I definitely respect Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq رحمة الله عليه. He was undoubtedly a knowledgeable jurist and had a keen legal mind. But according to your doctrine, all of your Imams have the greatest knowledge of the entire creation. These were individuals that should have discovered things like gravity, should have discussed nuclear fissure and explained how to harness electricity as a power source. If you say that wasn’t their purpose and trivialize such fields of knowledge, then at least point to some great masterpiece of theology or religious sciences that these Imams produced?

Ghazali wrote many amazing intellectual works especially Incoherence of the Philosophers. A Shi’ite on this forum @Follower of Ahlulbayt relies heavily on the works of Thomas Aquinas for theology and metaphysics. Where is the alternative fountain of knowledge and ma'rifah from your Imams? What great intellectual contribution did Imam Muhammad al-Jawwad رحمة الله عليه make for the Ummah or for humanity at large?

It is quite evident this is merely Twelver dogma. Even non-Muslim intellectuals have never recognized the intellectual contribution of your twelve Imams in any field. They acknowledge many great Sunni, Mu'tazilite and Sufi figures, but where have they every acknowledged the greatness of Imam Muhammad al-Jawwad or Imam Ali al-Naqi? Please be honest and consider this with an open mind.

Mr.Yes Twelve Imams had great knowledge. What should have been done, they did.

They did what situation demanded.They were to guide people towards Allah and follow the Quran in letter and sprit.

You are right Newton, Tesla ,Einstein , Darwin did great thing giving breakthrough in field of science.

Religion is not something where one has to discover new laws.

But it is complete and needs follower .

Do you mean Imams should discover new laws then you recognise them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/29/2020 at 4:16 AM, Cool said:
  •  

@Cherub786, do you know the speaker in above video?

Yes I know him but am not a fan of his. He was featured in a ridiculous documentary entitled Inhiraf in which he tried to disassociate Sufism from the mystical experiences that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed for himself. But Ahmad Jawaid presented nothing but biased and prejudicial reasoning in that regard. I was very disappointed. Even someone like Jawaid Ghamidi recognized Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as someone whose approach to Islam was intimately linked to Sufism, and that though technically not a Sufi himself, was a product of the Sufi legacy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
11 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

All your arguments are based on unproven premises. It’s easy to claim that your twelve Imams were the ultimate repositories of divine knowledge and absolute truth. Many Sufis claim the same thing about their Mashayikh. Sikhs claim the same thing about their ten Gurus. Hindus claim the same thing about their Rishis. The question is how can any of these claims be evaluated and verified?

أنا مدينة العلم و عليّ بابها فمن اراد العلم فليأت الباب

I am the city of the knowledge and 'Ali is its gate, thus whoever seeks the knowledge has to enter the gate. (Lots of reference in both shia and sunni text) 

Now tell me did the Prophet had divine knowledge? Who is it's gate? Where should one go to seek that divine knowledge according to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Is there anyone other than Imam Ali (عليه السلام) for whom the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) narrated this hadith? 

11 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I definitely respect Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq رحمة الله عليه. He was undoubtedly a knowledgeable jurist and had a keen legal mind. But according to your doctrine, all of your Imams have the greatest knowledge of the entire creation. These were individuals that should have discovered things like gravity, should have discussed nuclear fissure and explained how to harness electricity as a power source. If you say that wasn’t their purpose and trivialize such fields of knowledge, then at least point to some great masterpiece of theology or religious sciences that these Imams produced?

Our Aimma (عليهم اسلام) were constantly under threat & surveillance from your Banu Umayyah and Banu Abbas rulers. When these two were fighting for worldly power, Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) got the opportunity to teach something and held classes for Qur'anic sciences, exegesis, theology, human sciences, etc. 

Secondly, you cannot wake up one day and teach laws of motion or how to nuclear fission to people. They have never heard anything like that and will bounce over their head. You have to start from basics which Imam Baqar (عليه السلام) and Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) did.

Things doesn't happen at random times. For someone to present something he should have right situation and right people. An MD cannot go and teach in kindergarten because they aren't right audience. Our Imam (عليه السلام) were most knowledgeable among humans but they couldn't reveal those science which you are talking about because of incapable people.

As Imam ‘Ali says to Kumayl ibn Ziyad, “Alas! I have vast knowledge but cannot find a talented individual for it.” He then says, “And when I find one, he is either talented and clever, but greedy and a cheat who wants to use religion as a materialistic tool, or he is religious and holy but stupid and has no talent for knowledge. I could not find one who is talented both in knowledge and in morals. (Nahj al-Balaghah, Fayd al-Islam, wisdom [hikmah] 139) 

Also, this thing which you conveniently ignored. 

On 9/28/2020 at 1:59 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

An eg: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) asked on Minbar, 'Ask me before you loose me'. A man rose before him and said: "Tell me how many pieces of hair there are on my head and my beard?" (Kitab al-Irshad). Why would someone even teach advance stuff to such stupid people.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
7 hours ago, islam25 said:

I think you should revisit the the saying and poetry of SoFis about Ahlebayt as.The sofi masters have extraordinaryly praised Ahlebayt as.

I feel it is true SoFis who uphold the love and willayah of Imam Ali.

A simple question, Do the Sufis also uphold the honour of the companions? The likes of Abu Bakr Umar Uthman? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, power said:

A simple question, Do the Sufis also uphold the honour of the companions? The likes of Abu Bakr Umar Uthman? 

Yes.

But they keep Ahlebayt as at muc higher rank.

 

Edited by islam25
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, power said:

Is that not problematic for you? 

Once it was.

But when I saw our scholars praising SoFis like Rumi, Ibne Arabi, ba Yazeed bastami. Then who I am to disagree.

To Allah what matters is how much one loves Allah more than anything. And real sofis love Allah maximaly and fear only Aliah

Definitely Allah doesn't judge at our standards.

If the sofi had enimity or grudge with Imams that was Problematic.

But Allah sofis have learned from teachings of Ahlebayt as how to love Allah to the point one doesn't remember himself.

Why should I have problem.Did Allah care it.

They they respect Khulfa too.

 

Edited by islam25
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
8 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Once it was.

But when I saw our scholars praising SoFis like Rumi, Ibne Arabi, ba Yazeed bastami. Then who I am to disagree.

To Allah what matters is how much one loves Allah more than anything. And real sofis love Allah maximaly and fear only Aliah

Definitely Allah doesn't judge at our standards.

If the sofi had enimity or grudge with Imams that was Problematic.

But Allah sofis have learned from teachings of Ahlebayt as how to love Allah to the point one doesn't remember himself.

Why should I have problem.Did Allah care it.

They they respect Khulfa too.

 

Praising someone dose not constitutes haq.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, power said:

Praising someone dose not constitutes haq.

That is Allah to judge.

The history reached to them was they were good and ashab of holy Prophet saw so they respected and Praised.

There are hundreds of personality whom we might like or dislike but we don't know what is there fate on qiyamah.

And nither we will be asked.

Out main outcome lies how much we love more than anything but Allah and not how much we fear Allah.

Edited by islam25
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...