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In the Name of God بسم الله

Quran 2:258

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  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

:salam:

Insha'Allah everyone and their dear families are doing well and with good health, I came across this verse from the Holy Quran, wherein it states:

Have you thought of the man who argued with Abraham about his Lord because God had given him a kingdom? When Abraham said: "My Lord is the giver of life and death," he replied: "I am the giver of life and death." And Abraham said: "God makes the sun rise from the East; so you make it rise from the West," and dumbfounded was the infidel. God does not guide those who are unjust. [2:258]

Regarding the commentary/exegesis of this verse, when Prophet Ibrahim said that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gives life and death the tyrant called for two prisoners to be brought forward wherein he killed one and released the other, stating that he too has given life and death. Afterwards, Prophet Ibrahim told him that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows the sun to rise from the East and if he truly had divine ability he shall allow it to arise from the West, showing to those around the inability of this self-proclaimed deity.

At first I wondered why didn't the Prophet just ask him to do the latter so as to preserve the blood of the innocent one, then a thought came to mind which (possibly) highlighted the wisdom behind the necessary death that this prisoner would face and that is to show the crowd a deafening Hujjah, which is that the tyrant would do absolutely anything to prove his 'godly' self and by remaining unable to answer the most simplest of requests his entire presence was shattered. 

What are your thoughts? 

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  • Advanced Member

Salam, 

There is an interesting story in the Quran with Prophet Musa, and "a man with knowledge" ( most people agree this is Prophet Khidr). Surah 18 verse 65 to 82. 

In verse 74, Khidr without any reason kills a young boy. Moses is shocked at what he sees, and asks why Khidr killed an innocent boy. Khidr asks Moses to be patient, and he'll explain later. 

In verse 80, he come to learn why Khidr terminated the life of that boy. The boy was an apostate, and in the future would lead his believing parents, and community astray. With the will, and command of Allah, Khidr took his life. Now Khidr is not a killer, but was fulfilling the command of Allah, similar to the angel of death. 

We can learn many lessons from this story. Firstly, that the human intellect is very limited, and superficial. Musa saw the outward action of murder, but did not poses the knowledge Khidr was given of this boys future actions. This also shows that Allah gives knowledge to whom he pleases , even to Imams, or ordinary persons. 

Also, this was a mercy from Allah to the young man. At the time of his life, the boys good deeds outweighed his bad deeds. If Allah kept him alive, he would be sure to taste the fire, along with the people he misguided. With Allahs wisdom, and unlimited knowledge he decided to take the Childs life as a mercy, and bless his parents with another believing child . 

Maybe this case from another parable from the Quran applies to Prophet Ibrahim interaction. Maybe Ibrahim had the knowledge the prisoner would be killed, but it was for a greater cause, or Prophet Ibrahim did not have the knowledge at the time. 

At the end of the day, Allah decided it was better to kill the prisoner, and his unlimited wisdom justifies it. 

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11 hours ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Maybe this case from another parable from the Quran applies to Prophet Ibrahim interaction. Maybe Ibrahim had the knowledge the prisoner would be killed, but it was for a greater cause, or Prophet Ibrahim did not have the knowledge at the time. 

At the end of the day, Allah decided it was better to kill the prisoner, and his unlimited wisdom justifies it. 

 

12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

two men may have been criminals.

Great points :) 

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17 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

:salam:

Insha'Allah everyone and their dear families are doing well and with good health, I came across this verse from the Holy Quran, wherein it states:

Have you thought of the man who argued with Abraham about his Lord because God had given him a kingdom? When Abraham said: "My Lord is the giver of life and death," he replied: "I am the giver of life and death." And Abraham said: "God makes the sun rise from the East; so you make it rise from the West," and dumbfounded was the infidel. God does not guide those who are unjust. [2:258]

Regarding the commentary/exegesis of this verse, when Prophet Ibrahim said that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gives life and death the tyrant called for two prisoners to be brought forward wherein he killed one and released the other, stating that he too has given life and death. Afterwards, Prophet Ibrahim told him that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows the sun to rise from the East and if he truly had divine ability he shall allow it to arise from the West, showing to those around the inability of this self-proclaimed deity.

At first I wondered why didn't the Prophet just ask him to do the latter so as to preserve the blood of the innocent one, then a thought came to mind which (possibly) highlighted the wisdom behind the necessary death that this prisoner would face and that is to show the crowd a deafening Hujjah, which is that the tyrant would do absolutely anything to prove his 'godly' self and by remaining unable to answer the most simplest of requests his entire presence was shattered. 

What are your thoughts? 

Perhaps the guilty was killed and the innocent one was released.

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23 hours ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Surah 18 verse 65 to 82. 

l think you are assuming too much.

At Ayat 65, inshallah, we read:  "Then they(Musa -(عليه السلام). & companion) found ... a servant (which everything is) from (among) Our servants ... (on) whom We had given mercy from Us ... and We had taught him ... from Us a knowledge."

This servant is most likely a man, a malik or a Rue.

The knowledge is most likely ad hoc --specific to instructing Musa -(عليه السلام).

Musa -(عليه السلام)., in Ayat 66, asks about rush`dan   ~  right guidance

As the revelation proceeds, Musa -(عليه السلام). objects or questions everything the Servant with knowledge does.

Personally, l think The 'lesson' is that you do what the God of Noah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). reveals  whether or not you like it; and that Musa -(عليه السلام). did not get to the end of the 'lesson.'

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23 hours ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Salam, 

There is an interesting story in the Quran with Prophet Musa, and "a man with knowledge" ( most people agree this is Prophet Khidr). Surah 18 verse 65 to 82. 

In verse 74, Khidr without any reason kills a young boy. Moses is shocked at what he sees, and asks why Khidr killed an innocent boy. Khidr asks Moses to be patient, and he'll explain later. 

In verse 80, he come to learn why Khidr terminated the life of that boy. The boy was an apostate, and in the future would lead his believing parents, and community astray. With the will, and command of Allah, Khidr took his life. Now Khidr is not a killer, but was fulfilling the command of Allah, similar to the angel of death. 

We can learn many lessons from this story. Firstly, that the human intellect is very limited, and superficial. Musa saw the outward action of murder, but did not poses the knowledge Khidr was given of this boys future actions. This also shows that Allah gives knowledge to whom he pleases , even to Imams, or ordinary persons. 

Also, this was a mercy from Allah to the young man. At the time of his life, the boys good deeds outweighed his bad deeds. If Allah kept him alive, he would be sure to taste the fire, along with the people he misguided. With Allahs wisdom, and unlimited knowledge he decided to take the Childs life as a mercy, and bless his parents with another believing child . 

Maybe this case from another parable

I’m interested in why you used the word “parable” to describe the incident of Prophet Moses and Khidr عليهما السلام

Most Muslims tend to believe this was a literal event that happened in our realm. I am more inclined to view it as, in your words, a parable or an event that happened in a sort of spiritual vision and journey of Prophet Moses عليه السلام

And yes, I completely agree with the moral of the story that you have explained.

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12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

l think you are assuming too much.

At Ayat 65, inshallah, we read:  "Then they(Musa -(عليه السلام). & companion) found ... a servant (which everything is) from (among) Our servants ... (on) whom We had given mercy from Us ... and We had taught him ... from Us a knowledge."

This servant is most likely a man, a malik or a Rue.

The knowledge is most likely ad hoc --specific to instructing Musa -(عليه السلام).

Musa -(عليه السلام)., in Ayat 66, asks about rush`dan   ~  right guidance

As the revelation proceeds, Musa -(عليه السلام). objects or questions everything the Servant with knowledge does.

Personally, l think The 'lesson' is that you do what the God of Noah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). reveals  whether or not you like it; and that Musa -(عليه السلام). did not get to the end of the 'lesson.'

Most people agree that this man was Prophet Khidr, fun fact, he's also alive currently on this Earth. But hey, Allah knows best. Regardless, this man was blessed with knowledge.

12 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I’m interested in why you used the word “parable” to describe the incident of Prophet Moses and Khidr عليهما السلام

Most Muslims tend to believe this was a literal event that happened in our realm. I am more inclined to view it as, in your words, a parable or an event that happened in a sort of spiritual vision and journey of Prophet Moses عليه السلام

And yes, I completely agree with the moral of the story that you have explained.

I believe the event happened physically, but involved intense spirituality only a prophet/imam is honoured enough to experience. The whole event feels like a Mr.Miyagi, and Karate kid relationship. Khidr is the Mr.Miyagi who is very mysterious, spiritual, and knowledgeable, while Moses is the Karate Kid who wants to acquire the knowledge, but rushes due to impatience and forgets to catch the bigger picture. 

Not saying Prophet Musa is not knowledgeable, but in this case, it is quite clear Musa did not possess the knowledge Khidr did. 

Edited by YoungSkiekh313
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17 hours ago, hasanhh said:

... a servant (which everything is) from (among) Our servants ... (on) whom We had given mercy from Us ...

 

4 hours ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Most people agree that this man was Prophet Khidr, fun fact,

1] What are the two descriptions of "a servant"? Well, everything is 'a servant,' and  "had given mercy from Us."

Quran is self-explained. So, one 'answer' is in Ayats 21:83-84 and 38:40-43.  Not khidr. This is guessing.

2] Use of the characterization "fun fact". :furious: You can enjoy Quran, but there is nothing "fun" or funny about it.

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3 hours ago, hasanhh said:

 

1] What are the two descriptions of "a servant"? Well, everything is 'a servant,' and  "had given mercy from Us."

Quran is self-explained. So, one 'answer' is in Ayats 21:83-84 and 38:40-43.  Not khidr. This is guessing.

2] Use of the characterization "fun fact". :furious: You can enjoy Quran, but there is nothing "fun" or funny about it.

1. We have narrations from Imam Jafer As Sadiq, and the Prophet who support this. There is also a consensus with our Sunni brothers that this person was Prophet Khidr, some Sunni schools say he's an angel, or other just say he's a normal man blessed from Allah. I'm not sure what else to say, as simply researching on this topic reveals that this man was Khidr. 

2. Firstly, you may have misunderstood. I was referring "fun fact", as an interesting little known fact. We have ahadith that support Khidr is leaving amongst us, as well as Imam Mahdi. Why can't we be happy, and joyful knowing we have both a Prophet, and Imam living amongst us? 

 

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On 9/27/2020 at 5:12 AM, Mohammad313Ali said:

because God had given him a kingdom

This shows that anything i have is given by God, it is an illusion that i acquired it by my efforts and intelligence. 

 

On 9/27/2020 at 5:12 AM, Mohammad313Ali said:

God makes the sun rise from the East; so you make it rise from the West,

The event rise of the sun from the east is happening to me, cannot change it.
This is only an example that anything that happens to me (the body), cannot change it.
I (i am) only witness to all that happens.

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On 9/29/2020 at 3:25 AM, hasanhh said:

Quran is self-explained.

Salam bro

Some verses are decisive and they are the basis of Quran. Even among the decisive verses like the one below (IMO),  how do you explain:

1. Those who believe, Allah brings them out from darkness into the light?

2. Those who disbelieve, Shaitans take them out from light into darkness?

[Shakir 2:257] Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.

 

 

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