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In the Name of God بسم الله

Which type of shirk is unforgiveable?

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  • Veteran Member

:salam:

In 4:48 we learn that shirk is unforgiveable if unrepented for:

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Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin. 4:48

My question is very simple. What really is shirk and which type of shirk  is unforgiveable (major) shirk?

The polytheists believed in One True Creator of the universe, and yet they were still somehow committing shirk:

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Say, ‘Who provides for you out of the sky and the earth? Who controls [your] hearing and sight, and who brings forth the living from the dead and brings forth the dead from the living, and who directs the command?’ They will say, ‘Allah.’ Say, ‘Will you not then be wary [of Him]?’ That, then, is Allah, your true Lord. So what is there after the truth except error? Then where are you being led away?”10:31-32

Elsewhere, other practices have been categorised as shirk:

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 “They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah.”(9:31) 

“Have you seen him who takes his low desires for his God?”(25:4)

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded? (9:32)

Even worshipping the name “Allah” rather than the meaning is considered shirk based on a lecture I listened to.

All of the following is considered (hidden) shirk:

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He (S) was asked for the interpretation of “Whoever hopes to meet his Lord, he should do good deeds, and not join any one in the service of his Lord.”1 He (S) said: “Any one who prays to show off is a mushrik; any one who gives alms to show off is a mushrik; any one who fasts to show off is a mushrik; any one who sets out for Hajj (pilgrimage) for showing off is a mushrik; any one who performs any duty which Allah has commanded for showing off is a mushrik; and Allah will never accept the work of him who shows off.”

 

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58 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

What really is shirk and which type of shirk  is unforgiveable (major) shirk?

It is clearly said in the Quran La ilaha illa Allah.

Believing in the thought "i am the body" is shirk. As long as you stick to this idea you will stay in hell.

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2 minutes ago, Shahrukh K said:

As long as you stick to this idea you will stay in hell.

Will I be punished in the hereafter for identifying with my ego though?

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1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

Will I be punished in the hereafter for identifying with my ego though?

Yes, if I identify myself with "ego" then i will be punished in the hereafter, in other words again i will go to hell.
If before death i realize that "i am not the body" then i will go to heaven.

(Ego is Ahamkara in sanskrit   aham+akara
Aham is "I am"  akara  is "shape/form"
Ahamkara means i am the body.)

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2 minutes ago, Shahrukh K said:

Yes, if I identify myself with "ego" then i will be punished in the hereafter, in other words again i will go to hell.
If before death i realize that "i am not the body" then i will go to heaven.

(Ego is Ahamkara in sanskrit   aham+akara
Aham is "I am"  akara  is "shape/form"
Ahamkara means i am the body.)

What is the proof that you are not just the body? What is the proof that consciousness is not merely a byproduct of the brain or the body? 

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Guest Psychological Warfare
2 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

The polytheists believed in One True Creator of the universe, and yet they were still somehow committing shirk

قُلْ مَنْ يَرْزُقُكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ أَمَّنْ يَمْلِكُ السَّمْعَ وَالْأَبْصَارَ وَمَنْ يُخْرِجُ الْحَيَّ مِنَ الْمَيِّتِ وَيُخْرِجُ الْمَيِّتَ مِنَ الْحَيِّ وَمَنْ يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ ۚ فَسَيَقُولُونَ اللَّهُ ۚ فَقُلْ أَفَلَا تَتَّقُونَ {31}

[Shakir 10:31] Say: Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? Or Who controls the hearing and the sight? And Who brings forth the living from the dead, and brings forth the dead from the living? And Who regulates the affairs? Then they will say: Allah. Say then: Will you not then guard (against evil)?


[Pickthal 10:31] Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Who provideth for you from the sky and the earth, or Who owneth hearing and sight; and Who bringeth forth the living from the dead and bringeth forth the dead from the living; and Who directeth the course? They will say: Allah. Then say: Will ye not then keep your duty (unto Him)?


[Yusufali 10:31] Say: "Who is it that sustains you (in life) from the sky and from the earth? or who is it that has power over hearing and sight? And who is it that brings out the living from the dead and the dead from the living? and who is it that rules and regulates all affairs?" They will soon say, "Allah". Say, "will ye not then show piety (to Him)?"

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Others have dictated the Meaning of Shirk for their purpose for last 1400 years. They Market Tawheed as Shirk and Shirk as Tawheed. (Gadir Khumm)

Qur'an 10:31 explains it. The real issue is that they don't believe in 

The God as their Wali & Obedience. (Lordship in Divine Legislation). 

Only Allah is your wali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor rate while they bow. (5:55)

“O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you.” (Qur’an, Surah Nisa 4:59)

Here

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So, Iblis had neither any defect in the principle of belief in Allah’s being the Creator, or in belief in Allah’s Lordship in creation and nor in belief in ma’ad. But still he falls so much! Why? Because he does not believe in Allah’s Lordship in Law-giving (Divine legislation) and docs not regard Allah’s command to be obeyed unquestionably, unless Allah’s command would be consistent with (Ibis’s) own thought and desire." 2

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235034818-a-dialogue-on-your-understanding-of-shirk/?tab=comments#comment-2879294

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

So, Iblis had neither any defect in the principle of belief in Allah’s being the Creator, or in belief in Allah’s Lordship in creation and nor in belief in ma’ad. But still he falls so much! Why? Because he does not believe in Allah’s Lordship in Law-giving (Divine legislation) and docs not regard Allah’s command to be obeyed unquestionably, unless Allah’s command would be consistent with (Ibis’s) own thought and desire." 2

Masha’Allah brother, but which type of shirk would be unforgiveable? Believing in many gods as the polytheists, Riya, following your desires and being racist like Iblis or something else?

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6 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

What is the proof that you are not just the body? What is the proof that consciousness is not merely a byproduct of the brain or the body? 

No, i cannot prove anything how can i.
I am totally motivated by desire for pleasure and fear of pain. However noble my desire and justified my fear, pleasure and pain are the two poles between which my life oscillates.
Desire not, fear not, observe the actual, as and when it happens, for you are not what happens, you are to whom it happens.

It is my understanding of Quran which tells me that to be a living being is not the ultimate state; there is something beyond, much more wonderful, which is neither being nor non- being, neither living nor not-living. It is a state of pure awareness, beyond the limitations of space and time. Once the illusion that i am the body is abandoned, i will be in in heaven.

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5 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Also would atheism fall under the definition of Shirk, and would it be deserving of everlasting punishment as per 4:48?

:bismillah:

 

نَحْنُ خَلَقْنَاكُمْ فَلَوْلَا تُصَدِّقُونَ

[Yusufali 56:57] It is We Who have created you: why will ye not witness the Truth?

This has been said for ashab ash-shimaal. Do Atheist testify their Creator is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

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15 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

It is my understanding of Quran which tells me that to be a living being is not the ultimate state; there is something beyond, much more wonderful, which is neither being nor non- being, neither living nor not-living

Which verse? Do you mean “wherever you turn there is the face [signs?] of Allah”?

But if we really are something much more superb then what is confusing me is how do we have free will if there is only Allah, and is Allah punishing himself in hellfire? And what are our desires, thoughts, pains, and are they also manifesting Allah?

Edited by 313_Waiter
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15 hours ago, Cool said:

The type (s) on which person meets with death. Be it shirk in worship, shirk in obedience etc.

But so many people do hidden shirk like preferring our desires to what Allah would want, sometimes people do good to show off, sometimes they take their “sheikhs” as lords above what then Quran and ahadith say, sometimes Hindus worship idols as God. Are you saying in all of these cases if one does not repent for either one of them before death they will be in hell?

What about if the shirk was unintentional, a pagan or Hindus don’t know he is praying to the wrong God, if he prays to idols?

Also, which type of shirk makes you najis, and how do the fuqaha translate this into jurisprudence, where Hindus are considered najis, as well as Jews and Christians (according to many in the past)?

Edited by 313_Waiter
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Words betray their hollowness. The real cannot be described, it must be experienced. I cannot find better words to answer your questions. What I say may sound ridiculous. But what the words try to convey is the highest truth. All is one, however much we quibble. And all is done to please the one source and goal of every desire, whom we all know as the 'I am'.

On 9/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, 313_Waiter said:

what is confusing me is how do we have free will 

Everything happens by itself, quite spontaneously. But man imagines that he works for an incentive, towards a goal. He has always a reward in mind and strives for it.
The only free will you have is to undertake self-enquiry. Free will and destiny exist only as long as the idea ‘I am the body’ is there.

On 9/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, 313_Waiter said:

if there is only Allah,

There is only Allah.
Being a muslim you must believe in la ilaha illa allah.

On 9/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, 313_Waiter said:

is Allah punishing himself in hellfire?

Allah is at the end of all suffering, desire and knowledge.

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