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In the Name of God بسم الله

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

that is your opinion. Go write an article about it, open a thread about it, and I promise I'll give it a try.

No it isn't my opinion. Try opening an introductory biology book and tell me how far you get before you encounter logarithmic data. (Hint: anything involving populations or growth, for example.)

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Just now, notme said:

No it isn't my opinion. Try opening an introductory biology book and tell me how far you get before you encounter logarithmic data. (Hint: anything involving populations or growth, for example.)

I remember my college introductory books didn't have any. mostly nice pictures and tables and maybe cycles. Usually biologists are all bad with numbers. People who are good with numbers go study physics usually. 

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Just now, 313 Seeker said:

I remember my college introductory books didn't have any. mostly nice pictures and tables and maybe cycles. Usually biologists are all bad with numbers. People who are good with numbers go study physics usually. 

Like I said, you might have gone to one of those "pay your fee, get your C" schools, I don't know. I took intro to biology and still have the book. There are some pictures to illustrate ideas, but most of the book is actual science that you need to know and understand at least high school level math to be able to understand. Some of it even requires a little calculus.

While I'll agree with you that biology is less mathematically rigorous than physics, you definitely can't understand it at a first year undergraduate level without knowledge of at least algebra and some statistics. 

I used to work in aquatic ecology. You can't do biology if you can't do math. Surely genetics is more demanding than ecology! 

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

is this thread about maths? What is your point?

Nah, man, it's about conspiracy theories. 

I was expressing doubts about your credibility as a scientific expert. My concern is that people might believe you and get killed by the virus. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 313 Seeker said:

 

It be better if you supported your claims of alleged experience by referencing scientific material and talking about it, rather than sourcing conspiracy websites.

You suggested familiarity with the theory of evolution in my thread, but then when it was time to talk about the topic, you deferred to obscure claims about alien-human hybrids on a YouTube video.

This of course isn't helpful in justifying your claims.

If you're allegedly familiar with genetic engineering, then use your alleged expertise to justify your claims. Don't defer to others of a "lesser education or experience" than your own.

Edited by Hameedeh
Removed the quote.
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17 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

I remember my college introductory books didn't have any. mostly nice pictures and tables and maybe cycles. Usually biologists are all bad with numbers. People who are good with numbers go study physics usually. 

I studied geology and calculus based physics and calculus were mandatory for me. And I know that biologists needed calculus as well. I'm not sure of any science degree that wouldn't mandate an understanding of calculus. 

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On 4/11/2020 at 3:58 PM, 313 Seeker said:

3 - the effects of rolling out 5G which has bad effects on soft tissue especially respiratory system

Could you kindly elaborate on this point?

I know there hasn't been enough research conducted on the risks of the 5G roll out and there may well be substantiated and serious health & safety concerns for humans, animals and plants alike; but connecting 5G to the pandemic has subjected the very plausible concerns to ridicule.

When people start burning down 5G masts because of the alleged link to the pandemic, it's not surprising that MSM and the ones 'pulling the strings' would jump at the opportunity to ridicule any plausible concerns around the technology.     

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^

On 4/11/2020 at 5:36 AM, 313 Seeker said:

Guys, this is the hundredth time I see these numbers. Come on! If these are true, then how can this not be a hoax?

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On 4/12/2020 at 8:58 AM, 313 Seeker said:

 

On 4/12/2020 at 10:30 AM, Haji 2003 said:

It does not have to be the leading cause of death to be a major health crisis.

Heart disease and cancer aren't infectious. This is.

ln 2017:

#4 Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases  160,201

#8 lnfluenza and Pneumonia 55,672

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm 

 

Our State Health Director said today that masks are the 'new normal' "for the next year". So learn how to make them, etc.

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

"C0VlD-19 the BIG Picture" in microcosm:

A friend of mine, his business running with a narrow margin, closed last week and will not re-open.

Where I live, the state and the county both have grant and loan programs for small businesses that are unable to operate right now. Many restaurants are using a takeout or delivery only model for now. I've been contemplating supporting local business by getting seafood takeout though I rarely (almost never) buy from restaurants. 

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Here's my conspiracy theory, perhaps a bit more tame than some others.

Over the past several days, my state government has been passing dozens of controversial new laws. Regardless of whether you support or oppose these laws, it definitely leaves a bitter taste when they are passed during a time that constituents can't gather to protest or even visit their representative. When the lockdown is ended, there will be consequences. 

For the record, I agree with most of these laws. I just don't like their timing. I would support the objections of those opposed. 

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30 minutes ago, notme said:

Here's my conspiracy theory, perhaps a bit more tame than some others.

Something a little spooky in the UK is the development of an app by the NHS that allows for better contact tracing.

The app uses bluetooth to identify who you have been close to and if you tell it you are infected it tells all the other people you have recently seen that someone they have been physically close to is infected.

It's supposed to be anonymous.

But the government can access identities if they really want to.

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18 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

It's supposed to be anonymous.

But the government can access identities if they really want to.

It's not mandatory is it? 

I'm pretty sure they can track you by your mobile phone anyway, and have been able for a while. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 5:04 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Something a little spooky in the UK is the development of an app by the NHS that allows for better contact tracing.

The app uses bluetooth to identify who you have been close to and if you tell it you are infected it tells all the other people you have recently seen that someone they have been physically close to is infected.

It's supposed to be anonymous.

But the government can access identities if they really want to.

The contact tracing is the news in the US as well. The government knows you through all the info you have filled out on forms in the past (driver's license, social security number, phone number, email address, etc.). When you open a bank account, you provided your same info, including your email address for online banking. If you filed your income tax online and gave banking information to make a tax payment or to receive a tax refund, the IRS knows all your info that was entered into the online forms. If you live in the same apartment building or work at the same business with someone else, your phones will be in close proximity to each other. If that person tests positive for coronavirus, the government can contact you to ask you to get tested or to tell you to shelter in place in case you have it already. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, notme said:

Where I live, the state and the county both have grant and loan programs for small businesses that are unable to operate right now. Many restaurants are using a takeout or delivery only model for now. I've been contemplating supporting local business by getting seafood takeout though I rarely (almost never) buy from restaurants. 

Salam supporting local businesses is very good idea but ordering seafood from outside of home with current condition is not a good idea because it has a risk of affecting with corona virus but supporting agricultural businesses highly recommended. 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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18 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Could you kindly elaborate on this point?

I know there hasn't been enough research conducted on the risks of the 5G roll out and there may well be substantiated and serious health & safety concerns for humans, animals and plants alike; but connecting 5G to the pandemic has subjected the very plausible concerns to ridicule.

When people start burning down 5G masts because of the alleged link to the pandemic, it's not surprising that MSM and the ones 'pulling the strings' would jump at the opportunity to ridicule any plausible concerns around the technology.     

Well there are lots of people talking about it who know better than me, like the former head of Microsoft Canada whom I posted his video of earlier. 

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18 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

I studied geology and calculus based physics and calculus were mandatory for me. And I know that biologists needed calculus as well. I'm not sure of any science degree that wouldn't mandate an understanding of calculus. 

I studied calculus too. So what? Are we talking about proving what's out there or about personal experience with classes taken? Don't divert and best you show us with the graph you shared, where we are going with this.

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19 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

You suggested familiarity with the theory of evolution in my thread, but then when it was time to talk about the topic, you deferred to obscure claims about alien-human hybrids on a YouTube video.

This of course isn't helpful in justifying your claims.

If you're allegedly familiar with genetic engineering, then use your alleged expertise to justify your claims. Don't defer to others of a "lesser education or experience" than your own.

I said that I was a biologist, and that my I wasn't specialized in that field. And anyway, I've should consider the opinions of even those without degrees, because especially in this day and age it is easy to self educate. I suggest you all stop trying to divert this discussion by addressing the personal background of specific members, while actually not addressing this topic at hand, even if it's a video talking about theories that you like to mock. This strategy is used by people who are losing an argument and resort to low-blows and attempts at personally insult people when they are cornered. This is technique of trolls. So go back to the CNN article I posted that started this useless discussion and start again, otherwise it will look very shady on your behalf. 

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@iCenozoic

furthermore, your theory of evolution (and promoting Darwin) thread is only as useful as the audience understands it.

To convince people of anything, you have to explain it in simple terms, and simple language. I am not ready to discuss on the level you posted in your last episode, because that vocabulary is best for people who are in this field. But as the saying goes: If you can't explain something in simple terms, then you don't probably master it yourself.

So, if you really disagree with Lloyd Pye who can explain things simply, then argue with this arguments on his level and prove them wrong. If you are right, then the truth will show. Trying to intimidate people by your fancy "expert" language will at most create a blind following, or simply no chance for discussion with laymen, who might be right even though they aren't aware of the language.

I look forward to you debunking Lloyd Pye's theories that are based on footprints and fossils, while avoiding pre-judging or talking about people's personal issues and backgrounds.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2020 at 11:24 PM, notme said:

Like I said, you might have gone to one of those "pay your fee, get your C" schools,

Like I said, I am willing to finally and definitely prove that I went to a recognized and respectable university, this comment is clearly mocking me and attacking my reputation by painting a picture of me as a liar.

PS: Anyway, university, schools and degrees are over-rated. Nowadays people can learn everything from home with the invention of the great internet. 

Edited by 313 Seeker
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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

supporting agricultural businesses highly recommended. 

The local agriculture where I live is seafood. 

But yes, any interaction with outside carries higher than usual risk, and it's a little tricky to ensure that seafood is halal anyway. I'll probably just eat the food at home. Shops besides restaurants and grocery are closed. The farmers and artisans market is closed. I don't know another way to support the local economy. 

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2 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

I studied calculus too. So what? Are we talking about proving what's out there or about personal experience with classes taken? Don't divert and best you show us with the graph you shared, where we are going with this.

It didn't sound like it, based on your denial of exponential growth of coronavirus cases.

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1 hour ago, 313 Seeker said:

@iCenozoic

furthermore, your theory of evolution (and promoting Darwin) thread is only as useful as the audience understands it.

To convince people of anything, you have to explain it in simple terms, and simple language. I am not ready to discuss on the level you posted in your last episode, because that vocabulary is best for people who are in this field. But as the saying goes: If you can't explain something in simple terms, then you don't probably master it yourself.

So, if you really disagree with Lloyd Pye who can explain things simply, then argue with this arguments on his level and prove them wrong. If you are right, then the truth will show. Trying to intimidate people by your fancy "expert" language will at most create a blind following, or simply no chance for discussion with laymen, who might be right even though they aren't aware of the language.

I look forward to you debunking Lloyd Pye's theories that are based on footprints and fossils, while avoiding pre-judging or talking about people's personal issues and backgrounds.

I can't be bothered watching an hour and a half long video on alien-human hybrids. You do a disservice to your own credibility deferring to that YouTube video. 

As I said before, if you yourself are educated and familiar with genetic engineering and biology, you should speak for yourself, rather than posting bizarre YouTube videos and conspiracy sites. Otherwise you will lack credibility.

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2 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

It didn't sound like it, based on your denial of exponential growth of coronavirus cases.

If you want to take this discussion to a serious level, then bring the graph based on any of the numbers, even if fake, and show us where we were, where we are, and where we are going. I was casting doubt on the past claims of it being exponential growth, which according to my estimates would be much more cases than we have reached now. It is not important what I claim, but what can be proven and shown, in order to benefit the propagation of truth. If you can prove me wrong, then go ahead.

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2 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

I can't be bothered watching an hour and a half long video on alien-human hybrids. You do a disservice to your own credibility deferring to that YouTube video. 

As I said before, if you yourself are educated and familiar with genetic engineering and biology, you should speak for yourself, rather than posting bizarre YouTube videos and conspiracy sites. Otherwise you will lack credibility.

OK, you can just say that you don't want to watch it. But to dismiss information without even considering it isn't scientific to say the least.

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5 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

If you want to take this discussion to a serious level, then bring the graph based on any of the numbers, even if fake, and show us where we were, where we are, and where we are going. I was casting doubt on the past claims of it being exponential growth, which according to my estimates would be much more cases than we have reached now. It is not important what I claim, but what can be proven and shown, in order to benefit the propagation of truth. If you can prove me wrong, then go ahead.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-deaths-since-5th-death

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6 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Like I said, I am willing to finally and definitely prove that I went to a recognized and respectable university, this comment is clearly mocking me and attacking my reputation by painting a picture of me as a liar.

PS: Anyway, university, schools and degrees are over-rated. Nowadays people can learn everything from home with the invention of the great internet. 

Yes! It isn't meant to mock but just like I said, it is vitally important to question the claimed expertise of people who are making claims that put others' lives at risk!

I don't want there to be even one preventable death by this virus! I want everyone to take as much precaution as they are able and not catch it, and when/if a vaccine is developed I want everyone to get it so they don't get sick. Can you understand that I don't want to mock you or hurt your feelings, I just don't want people to follow what you say and die or lose family members? 

You say you don't want people to "die ignorant". I just don't want people to die. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, notme said:

Yes! It isn't meant to mock but just like I said, it is vitally important to question the claimed expertise of people who are making claims that put others' lives at risk!

I don't want there to be even one preventable death by this virus! I want everyone to take as much precaution as they are able and not catch it, and when/if a vaccine is developed I want everyone to get it so they don't get sick. Can you understand that I don't want to mock you or hurt your feelings, I just don't want people to follow what you say and die or lose family members? 

You say you don't want people to "die ignorant". I just don't want people to die. 

I completely understand your sentiments and my wife also reacted very strongly the same way when I first said that it could be that there is no virus. Although she did not tell me in a disrespectful way.

And we both decided to not act like there is no virus unless it is super proven that there is none. Since I have toyed with the idea, I have seen more evidence that there really is a nasty flu going around, even if it is not as dangerous as most people (including me) thought it is was in the beginning. So the pinned post on this thread is correct, that people can disregard me, which is perfectly ok, because I don't want fame. Even though I never said there is no virus, I just said that I was more leaning to that possibility.

And anyway, it is healthy to look at all information out there, because wrong information has no legs anyway. We don't need to be afraid of it, as long as there are intelligent people who can discuss civilized. Intentions is what counts, and taking for granted that this world is mostly run by people who have bad intentions is the most intelligent thing to do. So it is good to see where the mistakes are, and where the deception is, so that we can defend ourselves even better. Anyway, my intentions are good with this, and I am not here to try to get anybody in danger, or to get an ego trip out of proving others wrong. I am here purely to do my share of protecting the Shia and raising awareness to all possibilities.

The shaytan assaults from all directions, so we must take care. And there has to be some people who filter out the information out there and question everything. I don't gain to benefit anything by posting these things on this thread or any other thread about the possible conspiracies. Just because I can be wrong about one conspiracy, doesn't mean that I should from now on trust all that's out there. I am the kind of guy who will prove himself wrong, if nobody does it for me. Because I never stop researching and asking questions again and again. So, the best way to prevent people from dying is to teach the young ones, and encourage the old ones to think and question. Put things out there and let them decide for themselves without stating that things are fact unless they are really, really clear. 

Teach people to question everything and not to trust authorities until the Mahdi emerges. And even after the Mahdi emerges, there will be corruption, but obviously much less. Teach people to be able to entertain both sides of the discussion without getting caught up in emotions, and to be able to see the perspective of the opinion they don't believe in either. Our faith is only as strong as we can defend it.

So, even though your sentiments are right, I urge you and everyone to to let the discussion flow freely, just like people discuss the existence of God freely, or the Wilaya or the prophethood of Mohamed. We were taught exactly how such discussions take place, and they should be with respect and tolerance. Focus on what is said, and not on who says it, and don't be afraid of lies. If there is a lie being spread - knowingly or not - or some inaccurate information, it will become clear eventually. And the best way to keep people safe is by debunking falsehood, and not by suppressing it. Actually suppressing falsehood can backfire and brings about suspicion, and makes people believe in it even more. So let's follow this model of confidence, grace, manners, politeness, and respect for people's beliefs no matter how absurd we may see them. And let us help others and keep them safe by spreading the truth and confidently stylishly and kindly proving people wrong. 

Thank you

Edited by ShiaChat Mod
Excessive amount of empty space was removed. Please do not push the space bar at the end of your reply.
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8 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Hi, and what is your point exactly? 

That there has been exponential growth in cases of covid-19.

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  • Haji 2003 changed the title to COVlD-19 Big Picture

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