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In the Name of God بسم الله

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I’m an “anti-masker” I deliberately do not wear a mask in public, including on public transportation though it is mandatory, and in stores. Although I am politely told to wear a mask I always shake my

Gonna have to disagree with this one, sorry. People being gainfully employed and being able to eat and provide for their families is much more important than communal religious activities. You don't n

I don't know man. For me, it was the opposite case. The first death that personally affected me was of my 25 year old friend who had no pre-existing medical conditions. She got positive for corona and

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22 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

 I see where you are coming from.

Man, it's like the sky is parting and the planets have aligned. Thank you.

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l saw and talked to a friend today. He had traveled to Detroit yesterday and said it was "bad" there --in the main city.

l found this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/health/detroit-hospital-bodies-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

The Detroit Free Press is carrying the same stories.

dw.com ran a feature today showing the Papa Giovanni XXIII Hospital with semi-trailers of oxygen because the hospital cannot produce near enough of what it needs. Here is an industry article: https://www.gasworld.com/siad-boosting-oxygen-storage-in-italian-hospitals/2018838.article  which says that this is a common/prevalent condition of hospitals.

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13 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Here is the former Sheikh of Azhar, which is the biggest scholarly representative of the suni world. He does not give evidence to his ideas, but it's interesting to see that such a high authority comes out and says that.

As Shias we could add that to the list of things about which he is wrong.

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l am listening to the radio in the background.

This caller said of his last trip to a store, "the store did nothing to markout spacing, none of the products were handled by gloved employees, no wipes were made available, no bio-safety features were present at the store, and the parking lot was very littered with discarded gloves and face masks." The said this was his last trip to that store.

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Ali Gomaa reminds me of my grandfather and his friends sixty years ago. They thought the unusual weather we were having was because of the heavy, high temperature satellites NASA was launching. That was before Yuri Gargarin.

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Posted (edited)

Salam,

Nice to see that there is a good chance that people's fears and how dangerous this is, could have been exaggerated.

 

“So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proved.”

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Mr Streeck is a professor for virology and the director of the Institute of virology and HIV Research at the University Bonn. He explained the methodology of his new study in Heinsberg, the “epicentre” of Germany’s COVID-19 outbreak, and talked about potential plans for a country to move forward gradually in getting back to a “normal” life.

During recent weeks, his team completed substantial research conducted through surveys and investigations in homes across the Heinsberg region - where more than 1,400 confirmed cases had been reported. Heinsberg has an approximate population of 250,000 inhabitants and has confirmed 46 coronavirus-related deaths.

These research findings have already provided some indication on how the virus works, as Streeck clarified:

 

There is no significant risk of catching the disease when you go shopping. Severe outbreaks of the infection were always a result of people being closer together over a longer period of time, for example the après- ski parties in Ischgl, Austria.” He could also not find any evidence of ‘living’ viruses on surfaces. “When we took samples from door handles, phones or toilets it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs….”

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To actually 'get' the virus it would be necessary that someone coughs into their hand, immediately touches a door knob and then straight after that another person grasps the handle and goes on to touches their face.” Streeck therefore believes that there is little chance of transmission through contact with so-called contaminated surfaces.

The fact that COVID 19 is a droplet infection and cannot be transmitted through the air had previously also been confirmed by virologist Christian Drosten of Berlin's Charité. He had pointed out in an interview that coronavirus is extremely sensitive to drying out, so the only way of contracting it is if you were to “inhale the droplets.”

However, there are different findings on how the coronavirus spreads. Experts from the US Institute of Health CDC and NIH had come to the conclusion that the virus can survive 24 hours on paper, three hours in aerosols and up to three days on plastics and stainless steel. As the Robert Koch Institute states on their website, however, scientific studies like this are realised under experimental conditions, which is why they are not very representative for the risk of transmission in daily life.

Heinsberg will now be the centre for conducting another study, which goes deeper, aiming to further evaluate how the virus spreads and how it can be contained. The study will follow a representative sample of 1,000 people.

The results from this more detailed study could then serve as a basis for recommendations for national exit strategies out of the lockdowns,” offers Streeck.

“It is important to obtain this data in order to make sure that decisions are taken based on facts rather than assumptions. The data should serve as a basis of information for the government so they can then think about their further course of action,” he continues.

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© Pexels

Streeck says that Heinsberg offers an ideal situation to find answers for the rest of Germany, maybe even Europe or indeed for the whole world.

Regarding the measures currently put in place, he personally thinks that it is important to bear in mind the potential negative effects that some measures might bring:

“People could lose their jobs. They might not be able to pay their rent anymore and staying inside for a longer time can lead to weakening of our immune system.”  He raises questions like: “The goal is not a complete containment of the virus. We need to know where the actual capacity limits of our hospitals are. How many infections are too many? What do intensive care medics say?”

It is important to start thinking about a “rollback” strategy and his hope is to “deliver the relevant facts so that people have a good foundation for their decisions.”

The primary results of the “Covid- 19 case cluster study” in Heinsberg are expected to be presented by the end of next week.

 

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On 3/7/2020 at 1:19 PM, The Green Knight said:

A tabloid article: (Read with a grain of salt perhaps (Google Translated))

KARACHI (Report: Massoud Anwar) Corona virus was manufactured in the UK laboratory, registered in the US and then routed to Wuhan's laboratory by Air Canada flight from the Canadian Laboratory. According to Jasart's research, the use of the Corona virus as a biological weapon was initiated by the Pirbright Institute in England. Funding for this project from the Pirbright Institute is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. The Corona virus was regularly patented by the Pirbright Institute in the United States. Its patent number was 10,10,701. The patent was terminated as soon as the first case was discovered in the United States in January. The Corona virus, named after the US-based Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) 2019-nCoV, was practiced on a computer in New York on October 18, 2019. The exercise was organized by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, John Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum. The exercise, which was attended by parliamentarians, business leaders and health professionals, was practiced in how to prevent the spread of the Corona virus outbreak. Was named Event 201. It was a full scale exercise made six weeks before the first case was reported in Wuhan, China's central region. It is also important to note that the organizations conducting the exercises on the Corona virus prevention computer were the ones funding the virus's patent company. And now these organizations and organizations are working on the Corona virus vaccine. Participants of the October 18 exercise were attended by representatives from major banks of the world, the United Nations, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Johnson & Johnson, logistical powerhouses, media, as well as representatives of China and US institutions CDC. The practice created a regular environment that reports of the devastation caused by the outbreak of the Corona virus in the media were alarming, citizens were scared and demanding the government take steps to remedy it. The Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory Level 3 and Level 4 are located in the Zhengdian Scientific Park of Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan. The name of two Chinese scientists is used to deliver. Dr... Xiangguo Qiu, who also specializes in viruses, came to Canada in 1996 to further study. Dr... Chi's husband, Keding Cheng, currently works as a biologist in the laboratory of Winnipeg, Canada. The two spouses have been doing research on the Ebola and SARS virus. Last July, CNBC News reported that a Chinese female scientist, her husband, and a few of her postgraduate students were arrested from Winnipeg's lab. A month after the news, CNBC further reported that the aforementioned scientist couple sent to China via Ebola and Henipah's virus Air Canada flight March 31. According to the news, all the rules for the shipment of the virus were followed. It is said that the Corona virus was also sent to Wuhan's laboratory by the same shipment. Another CNBC follow-up story revealed that Dr... Chi made five visits to China during 2017-18, providing training for technicians and scientists in China's Level 4 laboratory. The scientist duo is still in custody. In addition to the corona's patent virus, Winnipeg's laboratory has been provided to laboratories in England and several other countries, including Australia.

It makes sense, in a broad sense.

In conspiracy circles, de-population is a major goal of the elite. The Georgia Guide stones have some connection to a cult, from what I gather, that is obsessed with trans-humanism.

In open media, popular culture, it is spoken openly about, although somewhat indirectly still: Earth is overpopulated and polluted. The only way to fix this is via depopulation.

Orrr..we could invest in developing technology that matters: things like ocean cleanup, alternatives, enforcing zero pollution standards in production of goods and rendering of services, uplifting human beings out of poverty. These things have always been sidelined and not taken seriously as a result of so many years of conditioning. 

We’re a mass-surveillance dystopia already. We have the social credit system in China, with rumors that something similar is planned for Canada, USA and western europe. We’ve got Bill Gates promoting “digital certificates” to prove one is not infected with the virus.

Hungary and Croatia have been shutting down churches critical of the government and NATO relations.

If you think about it, the emergency powers many of these governments will take will likely never be rescinded to their normal states.

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3 hours ago, BlueInk said:

In conspiracy circles, de-population is a major goal of the elite.

Now in 18th Century England, as we had in school, this was in a sense true. The national sentiment was that England had too many people. So the gov't began encouraging emmigration, especially in the 19th Century, to include arrest and deportation. Like to Australia.

However, do you really believe "elites" want to kill their customers and renters? 

Back in the 1960s in the New York City region, distributors of heroin use to get a junkie, let him have a 'free shoot' from the shipment that came smuggled in, and if the junkie died, then the heroin was 'pure enough' to buy. Then the regional distributors would 'cut' the dope further. l do not believe 'elites' work the same way. This is also the opposite of what Henry Ford built his fortune on.

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8 hours ago, BlueInk said:

de-population is a major goal of the elite.

This doesn't make sense under capitalism. The more cheap labor and customers, the better. They don't care about human suffering, but they need plenty of labor and buyers. 

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4 minutes ago, notme said:

This doesn't make sense under capitalism. The more cheap labor and customers, the better. They don't care about human suffering, but they need plenty of labor and buyers.

Another reason is that this virus goes for older people. If the aim were depopulation then they'd have created something like Spanish flu that attacked younger people.

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11 hours ago, notme said:

This doesn't make sense under capitalism. The more cheap labor and customers, the better. They don't care about human suffering, but they need plenty of labor and buyers. 

They could always decrease the size and scope of the economy. Getting rid of people that they consider to be useless would be step number one, like geriatrics and homeless people, unemployables, etc.

That’s what I would do if I were tasked with implementing such a goal.

Automation and AI are coming faster and are wider in reach than most people expect. I think that will help address a good portion of the labor and demand supply.

We will need a sudden event to achieve an actual scenario that you describe. 

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On 4/16/2020 at 11:59 AM, hasanhh said:

Now in 18th Century England, as we had in school, this was in a sense true. The national sentiment was that England had too many people. So the gov't began encouraging emmigration, especially in the 19th Century, to include arrest and deportation. Like to Australia.

However, do you really believe "elites" want to kill their customers and renters? 

Back in the 1960s in the New York City region, distributors of heroin use to get a junkie, let him have a 'free shoot' from the shipment that came smuggled in, and if the junkie died, then the heroin was 'pure enough' to buy. Then the regional distributors would 'cut' the dope further. l do not believe 'elites' work the same way. This is also the opposite of what Henry Ford built his fortune on.

Not immediately. I’d want to develop mental capital, too. Gradually controlling more aspects of political process and power. I’m sure we’re going to see a Patriot Act 2.0 in response to the pandemic. It makes sense to me. 

I get the part of not killing customers. I dont understand the what you mean by it being “pure enough” to buy. Do you mean the quantity would then be thorough?

Economic mobility tends to correlate with birth decreases. Not sure what the actual mechanisms are, but there would be eventual need to keep the population from growing in excess. The way I see it, there is a specific number to be maintained along with specific macroeconomic conditions, as time goes on.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Another reason is that this virus goes for older people. If the aim were depopulation then they'd have created something like Spanish flu that attacked younger people.

There is the theory that they want to kill off the useless stock of humans. The talk is that they want to end up with a small, very healthy and productive and useful population of highly obedient people. So that they labour for them and produce for them and at the same time not cost too much for maintenance and fixing. People can plan as much as they want, but only Allah decides in the end what will be.

Edited by 313 Seeker
I usually proof read after posting.
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21 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

There is the theory that they want to kill off the useless stock of humans

lf you have seen the nutworks' selected lists of 'useless' people C-19 has taken -the artists, musicians, liberals, activists- then this theory has a lot of validity to it.

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

lf you have seen the nutworks' selected lists of 'useless' people C-19 has taken -the artists, musicians, liberals, activists- then this theory has a lot of validity to it.

yes those people aren't really useful to them. 

Here are some people among the Jews who are interpreting the Torah wrong, who believe that all non-Jews have the only purpose of being slaves to Jews.

Just like all the other powers and sects and religions in the world, they are trying their best to support the manifestation of their beliefs. All I can do is hope that their worldview does not get manifested.

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Please do not assume that information presented as facts is indeed factual. Shiachat is a discussion site, not a news site. It's fine to discuss conspiracy theories, but be aware that logic and skepticism are healthy and wise. 

Reminds me of how atheist Ricky Gervais, on the topic of religion, says "I believe in logic and reason." 

I think it's a good idea to reword that sentence. Maybe to "but please be aware that incorrect information could cost lives". 

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On 4/17/2020 at 2:51 PM, hasanhh said:

lf you have seen the nutworks' selected lists of 'useless' people C-19 has taken -the artists, musicians, liberals, activists- then this theory has a lot of validity to it.

it’s probably a trial version. they might not have paid for the full one, so they get less performance out of it.

but anyways, its easy to see how this is helping to trim the fat, however little.

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12 hours ago, notme said:

Humanity will figure out how to organize ourselves and our resources better now that we have a chance.

A lasting teenage memory is seeing a uniformed person sitting at the bottom of the escalators on the Moscow underground, watching people come down and presumably whose job it was to make sure that no one fell off.

It struck me as a non-job and perhaps the only rationale for it was to up the employment statistics? 

But ever since I have wondered how many things in our society are non-jobs, but we're just too close to the system to see them in that way.

If governments can work out how to do a basic income for everyone, perhaps the need to have such non-jobs would disappear.

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

A lasting teenage memory is seeing a uniformed person sitting at the bottom of the escalators on the Moscow underground, watching people come down and presumably whose job it was to make sure that no one fell off.

It struck me as a non-job and perhaps the only rationale for it was to up the employment statistics? 

But ever since I have wondered how many things in our society are non-jobs, but we're just too close to the system to see them in that way.

If governments can work out how to do a basic income for everyone, perhaps the need to have such non-jobs would disappear.

This reminds me of the popular saying 'necessity is the mother of invention'

Many traditional companies insisted that home office wasn't an option, now most of them are forced to implement it. Same story with education.

With the strong wave of globalization we could no longer imagine societies without long distance transport. Now its a reality, albeit temporarily.

Some argued that pollution was irreversible, apparently it isnt the case.

Whether we learn these lessons or simply ignore them once covid fades away is yet to be seen. 

Also, we have all been closely monitoring and collectively fighting the spread of the virus. Will we one day also track, monitor and fight child hunger (almost 400k deaths per year)? 

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Nobel winning scientist who co-discovered HIV claims novel Coronavirus was made in Wuhan's lab

I was surprised to see that local mainstream media were reporting that the Nobel price winning scientist said COVID-19 or the novel coronavirus was developed by humans, or so. Then I found out he was accusing China, which explained that. What if he or someone else said it was Israel or the US government? Would they all be reporting so fast as well? Would Google also be eager to share it at the top of its COVID-19 page? Answer: only if they really had to, against their will and what they see a loss in their zero-sum game satanic mindset. But whether China or the US, I believe the US and its friends not China are behind it, this is another piece of information about human interference and the development of the COVID-19 and biological weapons in general.

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On 4/16/2020 at 5:35 PM, notme said:

This doesn't make sense under capitalism. The more cheap labor and customers, the better. They don't care about human suffering, but they need plenty of labor and buyers. 

"They" get the money and we get the debt.

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2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

 . . . Moscow . . .

If governments can work out how to do a basic income for everyone, perhaps the need to have such non-jobs would disappear.

You rmember their old saying?  "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

You rmember their old saying?  "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."

That's capitalism: every worker trying to get what he can get away with, and every employer trying to get what he can get away with. Very adversarial. It doesn't have to be that way. 

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17 hours ago, BlueInk said:

but anyways, its easy to see how this is helping to trim the fat, however little.

This is not funny. It sounds like you agree with the idea that people, who are not productive, deserve to die. Very very insensitive joke.

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2 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

This is not funny. It sounds like you agree with the idea that people, who are not productive, deserve to die. Very very insensitive joke.

You and @BlueInk remind me of Leonardo who said most people were only consumers of food and producers on manure.

Kind of a pre-Nazi attitude.

Ayat 4:58 l think is better.

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On 4/16/2020 at 5:42 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Another reason is that this virus goes for older people. If the aim were depopulation then they'd have created something like Spanish flu that attacked younger people.

This prompted me to do an info search.

This 2 minute read -in its entiretty- will debunk conspiracy theories: novel viruses lack the evolutionary advantages for survival in natural environments.

https://www.nap.edu/read/5708/chapter/2 

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On 4/18/2020 at 5:20 PM, hasanhh said:

You and @BlueInk remind me of Leonardo who said most people were only consumers of food and producers on manure.

Kind of a pre-Nazi attitude.

Ayat 4:58 l think is better.

I think each and every human being, in reality, has infinite potential and has something to offer. Allah values all life.

As far as the constraints of this hellish world we live in, my definition stands.

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  • Haji 2003 changed the title to COVlD-19 Big Picture

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