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In the Name of God بسم الله

Should there be any change in way of Mourning


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Muharram is month of Martyrdom of Imam Hussain as.And all Shia Muslim conduct mourning ritulas during Mohharram.

Should there be any change how to mourn that It will be more acceptable to common masses and also highlight the the massage of Imam Hussain so that we achieve the goal that is edtablishment of Islamic governance .

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I am going to make an observation that will not sit well with a lot of people - what else is new? Respectfully as a general rule, if you have been doing azadari for at least 10 years, keep your o

With the absent of divine Imam (عليه السلام) you are not going to find a True Islamic Government . So with absent of Imam (عليه السلام) How do purpose an Islamic government ? What is  your  definition

Forget the rituals side of Azadari for a moment, (even though Rituals  will become  core part of this discussion) Mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is universally accepted by all branches of fai

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On 9/19/2020 at 7:02 AM, Hadi5 said:

Muharram is month of Martyrdom of Imam Hussain as.And all Shia Muslim conduct mourning ritulas during Mohharram.

Should there be any change how to mourn that It will be more acceptable to common masses and also highlight the the massage of Imam Hussain so that we achieve the goal that is edtablishment of Islamic governance .

Forget the rituals side of Azadari for a moment, (even though Rituals  will become  core part of this discussion) Mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is universally accepted by all branches of faith. Suggesting changes for the masses is not a valid reason, in my view its a sign of weakness. Ulamas of past and present have never advocated such an idea of revising mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) Alhamdulillah.

Mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) for vast majority of the Shias across the globe  is a very delicate subject, so my advice to you be careful. 

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9 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

This is something that has anyway been continuously changing over the centuries and across different cultures, so I don't see why we would suddenly 'freeze' it now. 

Can you refer a example of Mourning that has been changing? 

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I'll have to agree with brother Power, be careful with this subject as there is a huge undercurrent of emotion associated with Muharram and talking about reform could get really ugly and intense with certain people.

Personally, I don't think I ever be comfortable with most Azadari rites, as I'm not confident in their authenticity.

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On 9/19/2020 at 11:55 AM, Mahdavist said:

Pretty much any custom or ritual which wasn't practiced during the time of the aimmah (عليه السلام). 

Rituals acts wasn't my point, maybe I didn't communicate my perspective of Mourning.

Mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) and his famliy is when speakers recites  Masiab or Eulogies  in Majlises  commemorating  Shaheed e Karbala. 

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OCD Topic: Rituals

We get it. Move on. ( I can assure you people will not, they are stuck in this abyss)

Let not just talk/Verbal and let's see some action.

1) Poetry: Like to see Shia community, get engaged in this Highly Recommended Sunnah of the Imam(عليه السلام). Invite Poets, Have a Poetry competition in ALL Languages. 

2) Deliver the Message of Karbala: Like to see proactive participation, Threads on ALL aspects of the Tragedy of Karbala. Describe the Events, Describe the Tragedy of the Captives, in route and in the Court of Iblis. 

My take is only act of piety to serve is to just point to the Negatives, I don't like this or that. OMG why this or that.....

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15 hours ago, power said:

Forget the rituals side of Azadari for a moment, (even though Rituals  will become  core part of this discussion) Mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is universally accepted by all branches of faith. Suggesting changes for the masses is not a valid reason, in my view its a sign of weakness. Ulamas of past and present have never advocated such an idea of revising mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) Alhamdulillah.

Mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) for vast majority of the Shias across the globe  is a very delicate subject, so my advice to you be careful. 

 

 

 

I don't deny the mourning 

 

15 hours ago, power said:

Forget the rituals side of Azadari for a moment, (even though Rituals  will become  core part of this discussion) Mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is universally accepted by all branches of faith. Suggesting changes for the masses is not a valid reason, in my view its a sign of weakness. Ulamas of past and present have never advocated such an idea of revising mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) Alhamdulillah.

Mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) for vast majority of the Shias across the globe  is a very delicate subject, so my advice to you be careful. 

 

 

 

We have to first recognise what was main objective of martyrdom of Imam Hussain .

Was it that Muslims will mourn on Imam Hussain?

Or it was that government is deviating and so people from teachings of Holy Prophet saw that Imam had to give Such a big sacrifice.So that Islamic government should not be in hands corrupt persons.

Or Imam Hussain as knew Allah and got chance (situation demanded) to give such a big sacrifice to attain Proximity of Allah and please Allah.

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On 9/19/2020 at 10:33 AM, Mahdavist said:

This is something that has anyway been continuously changing over the centuries and across different cultures, so I don't see why we would suddenly 'freeze' it now. 

My point is not wheather should be done or not.

But why Imam Hussain as gave such a big sacrifice.

Was it people should mourn.

Or it was that there should be government having islamic law and Islamic teachings in our living.

One thing we should recognise that Khomeini did it and may Allah raise him with Ahlebayt as.

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25 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Was it people should mourn.

Or it was that there should be government having islamic law and Islamic teachings in our living.

Salam we must have both of them evem Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) himself was holding mourning in any condition either in exile or after establishing Islamic government he also said that " keep alive this mourning , indeed Muharram & Safar kept Islam alive"

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam we must have both of them evem Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) himself was holding mourning in any condition either in exile or after establishing Islamic government he also said that " keep alive this mourning , indeed Muharram & Safar kept Islam alive"

Yes.

But Khomeini understood why Imam Hussain as gave sacrifice.That was for Islam and Allah.

So Khomeini established Islamic government and also mourned.

So everyone who mourn should first struggle for establishment of Islamic government and Islamic way of living.

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On 9/19/2020 at 10:02 PM, Hadi5 said:

Muharram is month of Martyrdom of Imam Hussain as.And all Shia Muslim conduct mourning ritulas during Mohharram.

Should there be any change how to mourn that It will be more acceptable to common masses and also highlight the the massage of Imam Hussain so that we achieve the goal that is edtablishment of Islamic governance .

Yeah bro since some people are copying rituals of Hindus such as walking on coal but for the sake of Imam Hussein. Soon they will do what monks do an get kicked in the groin to feel pain as claim it’s fir Hussein astaghfirullah. 
 

people don’t follow Islam they follow cultures and claim it’s part of islam

BDF3F36C-D25E-4512-A505-FC9D99F52782.jpeg

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Azadari has always evolved and continues to do so.

The original azadari was simply poetry about Imam Hussain's fazail and masaib; matam/latm occured during masaib.

The lecture style we see today is evolution.

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On 9/20/2020 at 5:26 AM, Mahdavist said:

The aimmah (عليه السلام) mourned the event, but didn't politicize it. 

To each his own I guess. 

What do you mean Aimmah didn't polticize it.

Is establishing Islamic government wrong or politicisation of karbala. I think you should think before you write.

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3 hours ago, Ali2196 said:

Yeah bro since some people are copying rituals of Hindus such as walking on coal but for the sake of Imam Hussein. Soon they will do what monks do an get kicked in the groin to feel pain as claim it’s fir Hussein astaghfirullah. 
 

people don’t follow Islam they follow cultures and claim it’s part of islam

BDF3F36C-D25E-4512-A505-FC9D99F52782.jpeg

You are right.We should try to keep mourning free unrealistic and un-Islamic culture.

Our mourning should be both free from all non ritulas and this mourning should reverberate us understand the value of Islam and follow its teachings.

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On 9/20/2020 at 10:46 AM, Hadi5 said:

What do you mean Aimmah didn't polticize it.

Is establishing Islamic government wrong or politicisation of karbala. I think you should think before you write.

I didn't say it was right or wrong. I'm simply pointing out the historical facts to you. 

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1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

I didn't say it was right or wrong. I'm simply pointing out the historical facts to you. 

What made you to say Aimma as didn't polticize it.

My main point was Imam Hussain as gave martyrdom when he saw the Islamic system of government and Islamic teachings are being changed or ignored.

So we should not limit Karbala only to mourn. But should struggle for establishment of Islamic law government and establishing Islamic principles.

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1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

My main point was Imam Hussain as gave martyrdom when he saw the Islamic system of government and Islamic teachings are being changed or ignored. 

That means caliphs before Yazid (la) didn't changed anything and were ruling according to original Islamic laws and shariat because no Imam rose like Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? Infact, Imam didn't migrate until he was asked for bayah and got letters from kufans. You gave clean chit to all those who changed halal of Mohammad to haram and vice versa before Yazid.

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1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

So we should not limit Karbala only to mourn. But should struggle for establishment of Islamic law government and establishing Islamic principles.

Mourning is the most important thing from the event of Karbala. Every Imam mourned the tragedy of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and we have ahadith regarding it. Taking lessons from every aspect of life of Aimma (عليهم اسلام) is must and that should be same for Karbala as well.

But I don't know from where do you get Islamic government thing. Tell us if any Imam (عليه السلام) after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) rose to establish Islamic government citing Imam Hussain's (عليه السلام) struggle. 

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22 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

That means caliphs before Yazid (la) didn't changed anything and were ruling according to original Islamic laws and shariat because no Imam rose like Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? Infact, Imam didn't migrate until he was asked for bayah and got letters from kufans. You gave clean chit to all those who changed halal of Mohammad to haram and vice versa before Yazid.

But in that timr it was not changed to that extent that demage the face of Islam.

I think you should read what Imam Hussain said about his mission.

May be it will solve it.

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22 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Mourning is the most important thing from the event of Karbala. Every Imam mourned the tragedy of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and we have ahadith regarding it. Taking lessons from every aspect of life of Aimma (عليهم اسلام) is must and that should be same for Karbala as well.

But I don't know from where do you get Islamic government thing. Tell us if any Imam (عليه السلام) after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) rose to establish Islamic government citing Imam Hussain's (عليه السلام) struggle. 

To establish Islamic system doesn't need Karbala rather it is teachings of Quran that law on earth should if Islamic sharia.

So Imam Hussain had come to people for guidance.

Why were Imams prisoned and poisoned the khalifs.

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15 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

But in that timr it was not changed to that extent that demage the face of Islam

Ohh.. Random killing of companions of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), making halal of Muhammad as haram, innovation by pseudoclaiphs, etc. were not damaging to Islam. Why did then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) didn't accept ruling on 'Book of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and sunnah of shaikhain' in shura? 

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13 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

To establish Islamic system doesn't need Karbala rather it is teachings of Quran that law on earth should if Islamic sharia.

So Imam Hussain had come to people for guidance.

Why were Imams prisoned and poisoned the khalifs.

Please tell us why none of the Imam after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) revolted against government of their time if its was that important to establish Islamic government? 

If you're voicing for establishment of Islamic government then fine but don't use Karbala for your agenda. 

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On 9/20/2020 at 1:03 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

Ohh.. Random killing of companions of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), making halal of Muhammad as haram, innovation by pseudoclaiphs, etc. were not damaging to Islam. Why did then Imam Ali (عليه السلام) didn't accept ruling on 'Book of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and sunnah of shaikhain' in shura? 

No.

They did not as you mention. Yes they did mistakes that Imam Ali corrected.

But yazeed totally changed all principles. That Imam Had to oppose him.

Read the following passage written by Imam Hussain

Abdullah and all other believers. Friends! You know the words of my grandfather, the Prophet(s) , who said ‘When people see a tyrant breaking the limits of the Almighty, permitting what He has forbidden, acting against the Sunnah of the Messenger and ruling over the people with tyranny and sinfulness and oppressing them, and still they continue to keep their silence and do not take any step to stop him, then God will drive them towards the place why they rightly deserve (Hellfire).

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9 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

No.

They did not as you mention. Yes they did mistakes that Imam Ali corrected.

But yazeed totally changed all principles. That Imam Had to oppose him.

Umar banned Mut'ah which was halal, introduced taraweeh, added a statement in Azaan of fajr, change laws of divorce, deprived Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) of their rights, oppressed and killed Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) and companions of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), etc. In every way, these were worse creatures than Yazid and laid foundation for him to change Islam even further. 

Please mention any narration with proper reference. 

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5 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Umar banned Mut'ah which was halal, introduced taraweeh, added a statement in Azaan of fajr, change laws of divorce, deprived Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) of their rights, oppressed and killed Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) and companions of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), etc. In every way, these were worse creatures than Yazid and laid foundation for him to change Islam even further. 

Please mention any narration with proper reference. 

Still the the Islam was preserved and crossly deviated.

And Imam Ali used to guide them when asked.

But yazeed groosly changing halal into haram.

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To quote Dr Ali Shariati, Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) needs helpers and people who emulate his way while we fixed it so that we listen about his hardships and mourn. Instead of making him a role model, instead of embracing his way of sacrificing absolutely everything for Allah, we ritualized mourning his martyrdom and let go of the real message. Of course I'm not suggesting that mourning should be abandoned, I'm simply pointing out the eye opener fact by the good Dr.

This is why today as a nation so many of us are just a disgrace. Pleasing Allah is at the bottom of all the rest of our priorities just like we are at the bottom among nations. Some are exceptions, those with no fear.

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2 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

To quote Dr Ali Shariati, Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) needs helpers and people who emulate his way while we fixed it so that we listen about his hardships and mourn. Instead of making him a role model, instead of embracing his way of sacrificing absolutely everything for Allah, we ritualized mourning his martyrdom and let go of the real message. Of course I'm not suggesting that mourning should be abandoned, I'm simply pointing out the eye opener fact by the good Dr.

This is why today as a nation so many of us are just a disgrace. Pleasing Allah is at the bottom of all the rest of our priorities just like we are at the bottom among nations. Some are exceptions, those with no fear.

Absolutely right.You rightly understood my question and your reply was correct. 

You rightly said that Imam Hussain as sacrificed everything for Allah and to preserve the Islamic teachings. 

So we to should struggle to establish Islamic government and establish sunnah of Prophet saww in our life.And then our mourning will have meaning and accepted by Imam.

It I'll be unfortunate if we keep mourning ritulas alive but remain silent on vasnishing of teachings of Holy Prophet saw and absence of Islamic government .

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15 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

It I'll be unfortunate if we keep mourning ritulas alive but remain silent on vasnishing of teachings of Holy Prophet saw and absence of Islamic government .

Who said both aren't possible? 

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3 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Who said both aren't possible? 

We never tried.

Whether it is possible or not is different issue.

We never tried it but only mourned.

It is Khomeini ra worked and struggled to Islamic government.

Istnt unfortunate for 1400 years we could not apply Quranic laws in running government and judiciary.

But we happily aaply wertern laws in our government and judiciary.

Has any muslim contry applied quranic laws and established Islamic government system.

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4 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

We never tried.

Whether it is possible or not is different issue.

We never tried it but only mourned.

It is Khomeini ra worked and struggled to Islamic government.

Istnt unfortunate for 1400 years we could not apply Quranic laws in running government and judiciary.

But we happily aaply wertern laws in our government and judiciary.

Has any muslim contry applied quranic laws and established Islamic government system.

With the absent of divine Imam (عليه السلام) you are not going to find a True Islamic Government . So with absent of Imam (عليه السلام) How do purpose an Islamic government ? What is  your  definition of Islamic government? 

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