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In the Name of God بسم الله

30,000 People Attend Anti-Shia Protest in Karachi

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1 minute ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Justifying violence and hate speech by saying “this isn’t Iran”.

I never justified violence, nor are we even discussing an incident of violence, but as the title of this thread indicates, a peaceful rally of tens of thousands protesting the recent blasphemous remarks against the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم by Shi’ite preachers.

As for hate speech, if your side is blaspheming and cursing our Sahabah رضى الله عنه, to say our side is engaging in hate speech by reacting against those who indulge in such blasphemy with stinging words and harsh language is a bit disingenuous.

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If someone has been following Pakistani current affairs, this protest and even TLP is nothing serious. In the 90s we have faced the peak of murders of the Shia ulama, doctors, officials. We and the orthodox Sunni too. Our security forces have fought the armed wings of such foreign puppeteered mullahs and the nation lost a lot of lives and property. The weird wild west of Pakistan, the Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) and the innocents living there also suffered as the army conducted vast operations to root out the fanatics and put an end to the proxy war. Luckily they did not get the chance to back them properly or so openly as they did with the "moderate rebels" / Daesh / ISIS in Syria and thankfully we broke their backs. They struck at our schools, killed innocents, bought politicians, used alliances of political parties and figures. It was a very big mess. Still is. They have many journalists on payroll. The civilian govt in the past had the army's biggest HQ and the central command under surveillance since '13 by using the civilian intel agencies under direct control of the PM. A PM promised power by the US gov under Bush administration, as can be read in Condi Rice's book. We saw mega corruption scandals unfold. We saw traitors in the army as well as in civilians. We witnessed the anti-state activities of the judiciary. "The Messiah" (still in power) a certain chief justice let go of hundreds upon hundreds of apprehended terrorists. We saw great criticisms and demonization of our army by our so-called own simultaneously. We faced off critical external threats simultaneously like Pulwama and the downing of Indian flies aircraft. Salvoes of baseless propaganda all around.

Now, these days we have a new breakaway subsect of Shia led by "Zakireen" who are illiterate and illiterate people followed them and bad mouthed taqleed and ulema. They went ahead and openly insulted Sunni figures from their pulpits against the orders of the scholars. On the other side, the TLP leadership over the recent years has proven to be an emerging troublesome pawn being used against the state. Khadim Rizvi. Enough said.

I am rather happy. Now they can only protest. No longer can they systematically kill our ulema and people with influence or conduct bomb blasts at our processions or other terror strikes. They feel offended by the speeches of the self proclaimed, fake "neo-akhbari" zakireen like Asif Raza Ghalvi, who are both "Akhbari since they detest sholars" and also Ghaali because they just love ghuluw and exaggerations. They are renegades. Two puppets struggling with each other hard while on foreign payrolls to try and start sectarian strife. Thankfully they won't succeed. International powers, most probably with India at the front, will have to try very, very hard in order to see any glimpse of the results they want which is to bring suffering to my nation. Inshallah even then they will fail.

Edited by The Green Knight
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2 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I never justified violence, nor are we even discussing an incident of violence, but as the title of this thread indicates, a peaceful rally of tens of thousands protesting the recent blasphemous remarks against the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم by Shi’ite preachers.

As for hate speech, if your side is blaspheming and cursing our Sahabah رضى الله عنه, to say our side is engaging in hate speech by reacting against those who indulge in such blasphemy with stinging words and harsh language is a bit disingenuous.

Cursing is not hate speech. Look up the definition of hate speech, please.

Muawiyah لعنه الله cursed ‘Ali عليه السلام, why aren’t Sunni’s calling that blasphemy? A bunch of your Sahaba cursed each other and killed each other, but that’s apparently okay to you guys. Yet when someone curses on the basis of evidence you have a problem with it.

Yeah, not a very rational sect to be fair.

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2 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

a peaceful rally of tens of thousands protesting the recent blasphemous remarks against the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم by Shi’ite preachers.

Peaceful???? Waving weapons, throwing stones at Imam bargahs, calling for genocide is peaceful?

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9 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Cursing is not hate speech. Look up the definition of hate speech, please.

Alright, so when certain non-Muslims and apostates curse our master Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم it’s not hate speech? Is it okay?

Fine, cursing is not hate speech. So your people can carry on cursing the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم and our Ulama can carry on with their “hate speech”, what’s the problem? Who is to decide which is good and which is bad? One is obviously a reaction to the other.

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21 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Alright, so when certain non-Muslims and apostates curse our master Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم it’s not hate speech? Is it okay?

Fine, cursing is not hate speech. So your people can carry on cursing the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم and our Ulama can carry on with their “hate speech”, what’s the problem? Who is to decide which is good and which is bad? One is obviously a reaction to the other.

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Hate speech is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".

 

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On 9/13/2020 at 5:04 AM, pakistanyar said:

1. Punjab State Assembly passes Anti-Shia Book Bill (Requires any book in Punjab that has Hussain or Abu Bakr or whatever to have RA written after it, illegal to write AS)

:salam:

That pseudo Islamic mentality. What kind of priorities they have. 

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11 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I never justified violence, nor are we even discussing an incident of violence, but as the title of this thread indicates, a peaceful rally of tens of thousands protesting the recent blasphemous remarks against the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم by Shi’ite preachers.

As for hate speech, if your side is blaspheming and cursing our Sahabah رضى الله عنه, to say our side is engaging in hate speech by reacting against those who indulge in such blasphemy with stinging words and harsh language is a bit disingenuous.

Can you please explain how cursing someone you consider a sahabi is blasphemy?

For example, I curse Muawiya or Abu Sufiyan or Marwan Al-hakam, etc. how is that blasphemy?

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4 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Can you please explain how cursing someone you consider a sahabi is blasphemy?

For example, I curse Muawiya or Abu Sufiyan or Marwan Al-hakam, etc. how is that blasphemy?

Cursing any figure that is considered sacred in Islam is blasphemy. You must agree that cursing a Prophet (God forbid) is a serious blasphemy, and likewise cursing God Himself is the worst blasphemy, cursing Angels is blasphemy, cursing Scriptures (Quran, Torah, Zabur, Injil) is blasphemy, cursing the sacred Mosques is blasphemy, etc.

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17 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Cursing any figure that is considered sacred in Islam is blasphemy.

Actually what does sacred even mean when it is applied to people like Abu Sufiyan?

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24 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Cursing any figure that is considered sacred in Islam is blasphemy. You must agree that cursing a Prophet (God forbid) is a serious blasphemy, and likewise cursing God Himself is the worst blasphemy, cursing Angels is blasphemy, cursing Scriptures (Quran, Torah, Zabur, Injil) is blasphemy, cursing the sacred Mosques is blasphemy, etc.

okay so why are sahaba sacred?

Are we agreement that the Muawiya committed blasphemy by cursing Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

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Just now, ShiaMan14 said:

okay so why are sahaba sacred?

Because the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم declared them sacred. He said “don’t abuse my Sahabah”.

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Are we agreement that the Muawiya committed blasphemy by cursing Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

I don’t agree he did that, but that’s a different topic.

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5 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Because the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم declared them sacred. He said “don’t abuse my Sahabah”.

He also said companions will turn apostate after him. Not my words but what is written in Bukhari so there is that...

Sahih Bukhari must be wrong.

5 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I don’t agree he did that, but that’s a different topic.

Fair enough.  

Sahih Muslim must be wrong.

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6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Because the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم declared them sacred. He said “don’t abuse my Sahabah”.

I don’t agree he did that, but that’s a different topic.

Google Imam Nisai, Sunni Author of one of the Six Sunni books, brutally beaten at the age of 80 inside a Mosque in Damascus for not praising Muawiya instead of Ali. The hadith say they kicked him in his testicles until he bled and later died. 

Edited by pakistanyar
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New update, Indian General provides classified information for the protection of the Shia community. Naming General Humayuian Aziz as person behind the Shia Kafir marches in Karachi. He says Humayu provided breakfast, water, food, transportation and was present in the rally.

India has become the protector of Shias since Pakistani Military itself attacks us.

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, pakistanyar said:

Google Imam Nisai, Sunni Author of one of the Six Sunni books, brutally beaten at the age of 80 inside a Mosque in Damascus for not praising Muawiya instead of Ali. The hadith say they kicked him in his testicles until he bled and later died. 

What’s your point?

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New update, Indian General provides classified information for the protection of the Shia community. Naming General Humayuian Aziz as person behind the Shia Kafir marches in Karachi. He says Humayu provided breakfast, water, food, transportation and was present in the rally.

India has become the protector of Shias since Pakistani Military itself attacks us.

I watched the video. An impressive performance by Major Gaurav Arya. He definitely makes some good points that we Pakistanis should reflect upon carefully.

But it also reveals that India does want to exploit the sectarian friction in Pakistan to its advantage, though it is obviously not responsible for that friction. India is hoping the Shi’ah community will adapt an anti-State narrative, which automatically means sympathy and a soft corner for India. The Indians know Pakistani Sunnis are off limits in this regard, because Sunnis by and large are extremely pro-State and religious, conservative Sunnis are particularly pro-establishment, pro-Army, pro-ISI, etc.

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@Cherub786

Instead of viewing the issue through a religious/sectarian prism, perhaps you should take a step back and objectively view it as a human issue. Sunni as well as Shia sources indicate that the family of the Prophet as well as his elected successors were cruelly deprived of their rights. They faced far more than curses. They were poisoned, tortured, massacred, censored, betrayed, lied to and about, subject to calumny, and all manner of crime(s). This isn’t a Sunni or Shia issue; it’s a human issue. Human beings curse those who treat fellow human beings in this manner. People who seek and care about truth detest those that manipulate, conceal, or alter the record. For this reason I criticise all manifestations of this, whether by Shia or Sunni or anyone else. Personal and collective agenda(s) should not take precedence. For this reason, as you know from perusing my contributions here, I’ve criticised both the “Shia” IRI and its “Sunni” foes—in my view they are both usurpers of mankind’s primordial religion, like all human government—based on my best understanding of the evidence, subject to revision as I seek to become fully informed, like any good scientist or rational human being. We should all care about oppression and tyranny, whatever its form(s) and expression(s)/manifestation(s), regardless of who is involved. Let’s leave our irrational egos on the wayside and take a distanced, evidence-based approach, one that is true to history. The fact that you can’t handle this says something about hatred in your heart. Unthinking, irrational hatred is extremely dangerous, especially so when coupled with power and privilege.

Edited by Northwest
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9 minutes ago, Northwest said:

@Cherub786

Instead of viewing the issue through a religious/sectarian prism, perhaps you should take a step back and objectively view it as a human issue. Sunni as well as Shia sources indicate that the family of the Prophet as well as his elected successors were cruelly deprived of their rights. They faced far more than curses. They were poisoned, tortured, massacred, censored, betrayed, lied to and about, subject to calumny, and all manner of crime(s). This isn’t a Sunni or Shia issue; it’s a human issue. Human beings curse those who treat fellow human beings in this manner. People who seek and care about truth detest those that manipulate, conceal, or alter the record. For this reason I criticise all manifestations of this, whether by Shia or Sunni or anyone else. Personal and collective agenda(s) should not take precedence. For this reason, as you know from perusing my contributions here, I’ve criticised both the “Shia” IRI and its “Sunni” foes—in my view they are both usurpers of mankind’s primordial religion, like all human government—based on my best understanding of the evidence, subject to revision as I seek to become fully informed, like any good scientist or rational human being. We should all care about oppression and tyranny, whatever its form(s) and expression(s)/manifestation(s), regardless of who is involved. Let’s leave our irrational egos on the wayside and take a distanced, evidence-based approach, one that is true to history. The fact that you can’t handle this says something about hatred in your heart. Unthinking, irrational hatred is extremely dangerous, especially so when coupled with power and privilege.

My friend, I have no desire to see my fellow Shi’ah harmed or marginalized because of the stupid acts of a handful of their low class preachers. I am totally against the blasphemy laws in Pakistan having personally been a victim of them myself. I spent five months in Adiala Jail, accused of being a Qadiani. The word “Qadiani” was put in brackets on my jail ticket next to my name. I know first hand what religious discrimination feels like. I know for a fact that Pakistani, Punjabi Sunnis are highly bigoted people for the most part. They are our equivalent of the North Indian, Hindi speaking Brahmins and other forward castes of India.

I myself curse and hate the killers of Imam Husain رضى الله عنه. Not because that’s the politically correct stance or because I want to impress the Shi’ah. Imam Husain is my Prophet’s grandson, he was a pure and great man who stood up for Truth and Justice, whose heart was captivated by the love of Allah and His Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. The way he and his family were butchered on the plains of Karbala is the darkest stain in our history, it was a watershed moment in the cosmic war between Heaven and Hell.

I hate tyranny and oppression with a passion. I hate the tyrants of this world, and I have gotten this hatred for tyranny and oppression mostly from my Religion. At the same time, I recognize that Islam is not just about hating oppression, we should also love and respect our heroes and saints, men like sayyidina Abi Bakr and sayyidina Umar رضى الله عنهما. Even the unbelievers respect sayyidina Umar رضى الله عنه and praise him for liberating Jerusalem from the Romans, allowing the Jews to return and worship freely, for liberating the oppressed Iranian peasants from the Zoroastrian monarchy and aristocratic priesthood, and for establishing a system of justice that is remembered till this day. Only someone whose vision has been blackened by sectarian bias will not be able to appreciate the service rendered to Islam by our Rightly-Guided Caliphs.

I condemn all oppression, especially if it is coming from my side. But at the end of the day I’m a Sunni Muslim, religion does matter for me, and my heart is cut to pieces when I hear someone slandering my Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم or cursing his Sahabah رضى الله عنهم. For me it is a religious issue it can never be a human issue, because if someone cursed my mother or father it wouldn’t effect me as much as if someone cursed sayyidina Abu Bakr as-Siddiq رضى الله عنه

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12 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Because the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم declared them sacred. He said “don’t abuse my Sahabah”.

But the Qur'an admonishes the Sahaba all the time. If Shias started selling post cards with those ayats, would that be a hate crime?

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My first thought when seeing a picture of the protest was that it ironically looks like a shia protest, so it must be an answer to ashura procession and seeing all those cool shia meeting up for the funeral of Qassim Sulaymani last year especially in neighbouring iran. The Sunnis also want to feel solidarity and strong in a united group.  The topics of zionism and American imperialism don't do the job of uniting them, so the only formula that works is being against those shia that they secretly envy, also because in the world of international proxy wars, they just got their rear ends kicked by them in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, etc. And the shia being a world wide minority who don't enjoy the open support of the world's most powerful nations, makes this all the more humiliating. All these shia political and military victories are purely due to Allah

Then we have the end times coming closer, so this can be seen as sufianic forces, and the reincarnation of yazid/muwawyas spiritual army. The world is getting more and more ripe for a muwawya and yazid defending hypocrite Islamic leader who emerges prior to getting killed along with his armies in sha Allah. 

Expect lots of arrogance and confidence on their behalf, because in the history of mankind the bad guys usually always win. They don't know what awaits them in the end. But aside mentioned already, their confidence isn't 100% as usual - like Mr. Saddam for instance - because they already got a taste of what's to come. 

 

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I want to ask .. wasnt the army of yazid in karbala 30,000 people? If yes, then through those pictures we can imagine what it looks like to have such a number, although in case of yazid they were armed and some were sitting on horses, so it must have been more spread out. 

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1 hour ago, Allah Seeker said:

My first thought when seeing a picture of the protest was that it ironically looks like a shia protest, so it must be an answer to ashura procession and seeing all those cool shia meeting up for the funeral of Qassim Sulaymani last year especially in neighbouring iran. The Sunnis also want to feel solidarity and strong in a united group.  The topics of zionism and American imperialism don't do the job of uniting them, so the only formula that works is being against those shia that they secretly envy, also because in the world of international proxy wars, they just got their rear ends kicked by them in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, etc. And the shia being a world wide minority who don't enjoy the open support of the world's most powerful nations, makes this all the more humiliating. All these shia political and military victories are purely due to Allah

Then we have the end times coming closer, so this can be seen as sufianic forces, and the reincarnation of yazid/muwawyas spiritual army. The world is getting more and more ripe for a muwawya and yazid defending hypocrite Islamic leader who emerges prior to getting killed along with his armies in sha Allah. 

Expect lots of arrogance and confidence on their behalf, because in the history of mankind the bad guys usually always win. They don't know what awaits them in the end. But aside mentioned already, their confidence isn't 100% as usual - like Mr. Saddam for instance - because they already got a taste of what's to come. 

 

They got what kicked? ONLY because in shia history shias have always sided with the enemy........let’s take a look:

syria......with support of Russia before that Bashar was losing.

Iraq.......with the support of America the shias helped them before and after the war even for years it was a shia who gave information on Iraq before it was attacked

yemen.......you haven’t won NOTHING you have destroyed the country by siding with Iran

Lebanon........are shia and Sunni fighting there?

You call these victories?

delusions!

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I cannot take this forced universal shia pacifism supplied with unlimited hedonism from living in the west. My blood is of a different breed, the old blood of the truly free courses violently through my viens. I am not of this docile and domesticated blood. My body and soul yearn endlessly for religious freedom in Pakistan/middle east and i will one day join my ancient kin in Heaven inshallah

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to be honest i have never seen so much hate at once towards the followers of the ahlalbayt... it looks like sufyani is in progress

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On 9/16/2020 at 1:47 PM, Guest Redemption said:

Iraq.......with the support of America the shias helped them before and after the war even for years it was a shia who gave information on Iraq before it was attacked

Iran was against the war.

Coalition forces that attacked Iraq were based in Sunni countries.

That's because they'd been drinking the Kool-Aid that somehow an American invasion would reduce Iranian power.

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On 9/16/2020 at 2:47 PM, Guest Redemption said:

They got what kicked? ONLY because in shia history shias have always sided with the enemy........let’s take a look:

syria......with support of Russia before that Bashar was losing.

Iraq.......with the support of America the shias helped them before and after the war even for years it was a shia who gave information on Iraq before it was attacked

yemen.......you haven’t won NOTHING you have destroyed the country by siding with Iran

Lebanon........are shia and Sunni fighting there?

You call these victories?

delusions!

Whatever you may say, who controls the capitals of those countries right now with the grace of God? It's not the Zionist lackey or satanic empirical blood sucking forces that the other countries are occupied with. All the capitals, including Damascus, Sanaa, Beirut, Baghdad etc. are in the hands of people who support the Palestinian cause, and don't accept foreign occupation. I know this might upset you, but the likes of heroic Bashar Al Asad (رضي الله عنه) actually was the key to the anti Zionist Israeli take-over of Lebanon in 2006, as well as the well documented Zionist onslaught on Syria following the CIA orchestrated arab spring spring. It might be painful to you but because of such great mostly shia forces, the middle east isn't run by ISIS and the likes right now. 

When was the last time there was a shia political power like that? Truly a sign of ahl bayt lovers inheriting things as predicted even in suni books. After all Mahdi is from ahl bayt and definitely won't accept those who excuse the likes of muwawya and yazid!

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