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In the Name of God بسم الله

Bagua in the Quran

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al-Salaam Alaikum,

Years ago I read a hadith by the prophet ()(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) saying that we should seek knowledge all the way to China. I took it seriously and have ever since been delving into eastern philosophies that I find complementing the Abrahamic religious materials we have.

After studying and practicing Daoism, I realized that this religion teaches the keys to basic creation. 

in a nutshell:

1 -First there was God alone (beyond description) - just as God created all humans from one self, and all creations from one element - water. That's the way/sunnah/dao of Allah

2 -Then there was a primordial 'mess'

3 -then duality came into being ( Yin Yang ) .. also represented by broken and full lines, respectively

4 - From the two, four were made ( Yin-Yin, Yin-Yang, Yang-Yin, Yang-Yang ) 

5 - Out of the 4 became 8 combinations or three possible Yin and Yang combinations

6 - from the 8 was created everything that is created.

images.png.85ce3c4d2938b5f63919545e6bcf9b51.png

..  Bagua means 8 Trigrams. Or 8 sets of 3. 

so according to the wisdom each of the 8 resonates with certain elements, directions, feelings, etc. If we master these, then we become masters of creations and our destinies. In the Quran, Allah writes that he has made the creations under our commands. At the same time we can see the 8 as doors that are sometimes open or closed. How we deal with these situations will help us deal better with life. To better learn to deal with anything, it is best to see and understand it from the most basic root level. The closer to the source, the closer to God.

Anyway, we have some mysterious verses that remind of these numbers and references:

QURAN:

He created you of one self; thereafter He made from it its spouse (i.e. two), and He has sent down to you of the blessings (my own choice of the word ن ع م ) eight kinds ( ز و ج ). He creates you in your mothers' bellies, creation even after creation, in threefold darkness. 39:6

Then there is the verse that is often neglected, showing the importance of the number 8 .. 

QURAN:

And the angels will be on its sides, and eight angels will, that Day, bear the Throne of your Lord above them. 69:17

So there are eight angels carrying the throne of God. Interestingly these represent the elements, just like Iblis used to represent the fire element at the throne of God, until he was literally thrown out (rajeem). 

a71af1b0b3b06766dec94099f6b28f1a.thumb.jpg.35ffee3e0dd114c69ebb8f082d0b8749.jpg

As you can see, according to the diagram, Earth (Adam) is one of them. In this case it is extreme Yin, by three broken lines ( Yin - Yin - Yin ).

It seem that hezbulshaytan are aware of this and trying their best to master the universe through this 'secret'.

At the Satanic instillation called CERN, where they have literally unlimited funds, and a goddess of destruction as their mascot, while their logo represents three sixes, their "particle collider" in Switzerland looks like this (octagon): 

large-hadron-collider.jpg.de2fb2192b71501529b6a3514ab1b4b1.jpg

Anyway, there is talk about many of the feats done by prophets (and other Imams), actually having a "knowledge" or "scientific" basis. This means that Jesus (عليه السلام) creating a bird out of clay with his bare hands, or Moses splitting the sea, etc, is more than just emotional pleading to God. There is even talk about Jesus having lived for a while in a monastery of the Himalayas, where he learned the art and science of mastering the creations, which can be used to destroy or heal. That would explain why there are more than one prophet in the Old Testament who can do the same thing. It seems to be a long lost knowledge that was inherited in prophetic families. 

In Islam we likewise have narrations talking about how knowledge during the emergence of the Mahdi will be one letter of the alphabet, while after that all the other letters of knowledge will be revealed. So we are living in the stone age right now. Or the real age of ignorance / jahilleya. 

Also, we know that the 313 will possess super powers in comparison to what humans had before them. I suspect that knowledge of these mysteries will play a major role in these things.

After practicing Daoist principles for years, and following various gurus, I can safely say that most of the answer lies not in expensive factory-looking tunnels like CERN, but simply in the mind. Once the mind is free, the spirit can be directed and nurtured. At the same time the energy/qi/prana/nour can be stored, fine tuned, and wisely sent around wherever the mind wants. It is an easy concept to understand, but not so easy to apply in this day-and-age. 

Understanding this will also lead to the UNDERSTANDING of our own religion, and why (exact mechanics) certain things like wasted sexual energy is damaging to us.

Anyway, I've been wanting to share this connection between the Bagua, or 8 trigram, with Islam since a long time. Today is the day where i publish it here.

thank you, Labayka ya Hussain

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9 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

certain things like wasted sexual energy is damaging to us.

These ideas about “mystical energy” are totally alien to Islam. Their practice of arranging objects in a certain way and other superstitious rituals to harness qi or cosmic energy for the purpose of health, wealth, etc., is just as nonsensical as astrology and the prescriptions of astrologers based on alignment of stars and heavenly bodies. All of these are pagan ideas that are totally rejected by Islam.

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1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

These ideas about “mystical energy” are totally alien to Islam. Their practice of arranging objects in a certain way and other superstitious rituals to harness qi or cosmic energy for the purpose of health, wealth, etc., is just as nonsensical as astrology and the prescriptions of astrologers based on alignment of stars and heavenly bodies. All of these are pagan ideas that are totally rejected by Islam.

That's your opinion. Mine is different obviously.

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12 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

That's your opinion. Mine is different obviously.

You might of heard of Feng Shui, or Chinese geomancy which has roots in Taoism.

If you agree that it is irrational to believe that the position of the planets affects your personal life (astrology), then how is it rational to believe, for example, that the arrangement of items in your bedroom also affects what happens to you in your life?

You are free to believe this nonsense if you wish since you are obviously impressed with Taoism, but to claim there is a basis for these ideas in Islam shows me you are reaching and that you are interpreting things very disingenuously.

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21 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

al-Salaam Alaikum,

Years ago I read a hadith by the prophet ()(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) saying that we should seek knowledge all the way to China. I took it seriously and have ever since been delving into eastern philosophies that I find complementing the Abrahamic religious materials we have.

After studying and practicing Daoism, I realized that this religion teaches the keys to basic creation. 

in a nutshell:

1 -First there was God alone (beyond description) - just as God created all humans from one self, and all creations from one element - water. That's the way/sunnah/dao of Allah

2 -Then there was a primordial 'mess'

3 -then duality came into being ( Yin Yang ) .. also represented by broken and full lines, respectively

4 - From the two, four were made ( Yin-Yin, Yin-Yang, Yang-Yin, Yang-Yang ) 

5 - Out of the 4 became 8 combinations or three possible Yin and Yang combinations

6 - from the 8 was created everything that is created.

images.png.85ce3c4d2938b5f63919545e6bcf9b51.png

..  Bagua means 8 Trigrams. Or 8 sets of 3. 

so according to the wisdom each of the 8 resonates with certain elements, directions, feelings, etc. If we master these, then we become masters of creations and our destinies. In the Quran, Allah writes that he has made the creations under our commands. At the same time we can see the 8 as doors that are sometimes open or closed. How we deal with these situations will help us deal better with life. To better learn to deal with anything, it is best to see and understand it from the most basic root level. The closer to the source, the closer to God.

Anyway, we have some mysterious verses that remind of these numbers and references:

QURAN:

He created you of one self; thereafter He made from it its spouse (i.e. two), and He has sent down to you of the blessings (my own choice of the word ن ع م ) eight kinds ( ز و ج ). He creates you in your mothers' bellies, creation even after creation, in threefold darkness. 39:6

Then there is the verse that is often neglected, showing the importance of the number 8 .. 

QURAN:

And the angels will be on its sides, and eight angels will, that Day, bear the Throne of your Lord above them. 69:17

So there are eight angels carrying the throne of God. Interestingly these represent the elements, just like Iblis used to represent the fire element at the throne of God, until he was literally thrown out (rajeem). 

a71af1b0b3b06766dec94099f6b28f1a.thumb.jpg.35ffee3e0dd114c69ebb8f082d0b8749.jpg

As you can see, according to the diagram, Earth (Adam) is one of them. In this case it is extreme Yin, by three broken lines ( Yin - Yin - Yin ).

It seem that hezbulshaytan are aware of this and trying their best to master the universe through this 'secret'.

At the Satanic instillation called CERN, where they have literally unlimited funds, and a goddess of destruction as their mascot, while their logo represents three sixes, their "particle collider" in Switzerland looks like this (octagon): 

large-hadron-collider.jpg.de2fb2192b71501529b6a3514ab1b4b1.jpg

Anyway, there is talk about many of the feats done by prophets (and other Imams), actually having a "knowledge" or "scientific" basis. This means that Jesus (عليه السلام) creating a bird out of clay with his bare hands, or Moses splitting the sea, etc, is more than just emotional pleading to God. There is even talk about Jesus having lived for a while in a monastery of the Himalayas, where he learned the art and science of mastering the creations, which can be used to destroy or heal. That would explain why there are more than one prophet in the Old Testament who can do the same thing. It seems to be a long lost knowledge that was inherited in prophetic families. 

In Islam we likewise have narrations talking about how knowledge during the emergence of the Mahdi will be one letter of the alphabet, while after that all the other letters of knowledge will be revealed. So we are living in the stone age right now. Or the real age of ignorance / jahilleya. 

Also, we know that the 313 will possess super powers in comparison to what humans had before them. I suspect that knowledge of these mysteries will play a major role in these things.

After practicing Daoist principles for years, and following various gurus, I can safely say that most of the answer lies not in expensive factory-looking tunnels like CERN, but simply in the mind. Once the mind is free, the spirit can be directed and nurtured. At the same time the energy/qi/prana/nour can be stored, fine tuned, and wisely sent around wherever the mind wants. It is an easy concept to understand, but not so easy to apply in this day-and-age. 

Understanding this will also lead to the UNDERSTANDING of our own religion, and why (exact mechanics) certain things like wasted sexual energy is damaging to us.

Anyway, I've been wanting to share this connection between the Bagua, or 8 trigram, with Islam since a long time. Today is the day where i publish it here.

thank you, Labayka ya Hussain

This is a very awesome thread. I've found parallels between Islam and Taoism myself. You may also find this book an interesting read: http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=D2028AFCBB41CA2E18A16960B7D31FAF

The metaphysical connections go even deeper but I don't have the time to write it all out at the moment. 

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40 minutes ago, al-Muttaqin said:

This is a very awesome thread. I've found parallels between Islam and Taoism myself. You may also find this book an interesting read: http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=D2028AFCBB41CA2E18A16960B7D31FAF

The metaphysical connections go even deeper but I don't have the time to write it all out at the moment. 

Thank you dear brother. My whole life revolves around these philosophies that are to me different branches of truths. Please make time to talk about the deeper connections as soon as possible, and I pray that God sends me this book that you posted.

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The issue here is that your very starting point (the often quoted attributed narration regarding seeking knowledge even if one has to go to China) may itself be misleading. 

I am not aware of such a hadith in the books of the Imamiyyah. As for the ahl us sunnah, some of their scholars have considered it weak while others have actually even stated that it's a fabrication. 

This is why I think developing an entire theory by making an interpretation (itself far fetched) of such a narration is quite risky. 

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10 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

You might of heard of Feng Shui, or Chinese geomancy which has roots in Taoism.

If you agree that it is irrational to believe that the position of the planets affects your personal life (astrology), then how is it rational to believe, for example, that the arrangement of items in your bedroom also affects what happens to you in your life?

You are free to believe this nonsense if you wish since you are obviously impressed with Taoism, but to claim there is a basis for these ideas in Islam shows me you are reaching and that you are interpreting things very disingenuously.

Everything is energy even according to modern science. We all emit electricity as well as light in all kind of forms. The kaaba sitting exactly where it sits makes a difference, because there is certain energies that are only present in certain locations. If you sleep in a cluttered and messy room, the energy will be different than a clean room with little mess, so the energy - much like the wind- can harmoniously flow.  Everything in life makes a difference, not just the position or location of objects. Their quality and state of being as well. I suggest you re read the original post carefully without jumping to conclusions before doing so. Maybe you will understand the point of it. 

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5 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

The issue here is that your very starting point (the often quoted attributed narration regarding seeking knowledge even if one has to go to China) may itself be misleading. 

I am not aware of such a hadith in the books of the Imamiyyah. As for the ahl us sunnah, some of their scholars have considered it weak while others have actually even stated that it's a fabrication. 

This is why I think developing an entire theory by making an interpretation (itself far fetched) of such a narration is quite risky. 

The only thing that I used through this hadith,  is the initiative to learn from others. Add to this that Allah says in these Quran that He sent messengers to all peoples, and logic that different wisdom will be in different places, I don't see how there can be anything wrong with "learn all the way to China". Especially that there are philosophies that are so close to Islam, that they appear to me to be Islam itself from a different angle and context. Just missing puzzle pieces. 

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21 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

The issue here is that your very starting point (the often quoted attributed narration regarding seeking knowledge even if one has to go to China) may itself be misleading. 

I am not aware of such a hadith in the books of the Imamiyyah. As for the ahl us sunnah, some of their scholars have considered it weak while others have actually even stated that it's a fabrication. 

This is why I think developing an entire theory by making an interpretation (itself far fetched) of such a narration is quite risky. 

 

11 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

The only thing that I used through this hadith,  is the initiative to learn from others. Add to this that Allah says in these Quran that He sent messengers to all peoples, and logic that different wisdom will be in different places, I don't see how there can be anything wrong with "learn all the way to China". Especially that there are philosophies that are so close to Islam, that they appear to me to be Islam itself from a different angle and context. Just missing puzzle pieces. 

Quote

Knowledge is the basis of every sublime state and the culmination of every high station. That is why the Holy Prophet said, 'It is the duty of every Muslim, man and woman, to seek knowledge,' that is, the knowledge of precaution (taqwa) and certainty. Imam 'Ali (‘a) said, “Seek knowledge, though it be in China,” meaning the knowledge of gnosis of the self, in it is contained knowledge of the Lord.
 
The Holy Prophet said, 'Whoever knows his own self knows his Lord; moreover, you should acquire that knowledge without which no action is correct, and that is sincerity ... We seek refuge with Allah from knowledge which has no benefit', that is, from knowledge which is contrary to actions performed with sincerity. -Imam as Sadiq “Lantern of the Path“

https://www.al-islam.org/lantern-path-imam-jafar-al-sadiq/knowledge

 

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  • 7 months later...
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Salaam, 

I want to say that my explanations above are far from perfect and full of mistakes, but an attempt. Now I can explain it a bit better I believe. 

Anyway there are creation stories from the hadiths that correlate with the taoist elements:

After studying the following 2 hadiths I found possible correlations of most basic elements in Islam and Daoism

1 - Water 

2 - Wind 

3 - Foam (marsh in Taoism) 

4 - Fire

5 - Smoke (Thunder in Taoism) 

6 - Ash (Mountain in Taoism) 

7 - Earth

8 - Heaven

Quote

HADEETH OF THE PEOPLE OF SYRIA (AL-SHAAM) 

H 14515 – From him, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Al-Husayn Bin Saeed, from Muhammad Bin Dawood from Muhammad Bin Atiyya who said: 

A man from the scholars of the people of Syria (Al-Shaam) came up to Abu 

Ja’far. He said, ‘O Abu Ja’far, I have come to ask you a question which has exhausted me in finding one who could explain it to me, and I have asked three kinds of the people about it, so each type from them said something other than what the other one said’. So Abu Ja’far said to him: ‘What would that be?’ He said, ‘I ask you about the first thing what Allah Created from His creatures, for some of the ones I asked said it was the Destiny, and some of them said it was the Pen, and some of them said it was the Spirit’.
So Abu Ja’far said: ‘They have not said anything. I hereby inform you that Allah Blessed and High Existed and there was nothing other than Him, and He was Mighty and there was no one who was mighty before Him, and that is His Statement: “[37:180] Glory be to your Lord, the Lord of Honour, above what they describe”, and He was the Creator before the creation, and had He Created, and Had He Created something from His Creation, something from something, then there would be no cut-off from it (the chain) ever, and it would never cease if Allah had something with Himand He did not precede it, but He Existed when there was nothing other than Him And He Created the thing from which are all things, and it is the water from which He Created the things. So He Lineage everything to the water and did not make a lineage for the water to which it can be ascribed. And He Created the 
wind from the water, then Made the wind to overcome the water. So the wind sent 
down into the body of the water until foam swirled from the water in accordance with 
what He so Desired it to swirl. So He Created from that foam, pure white land with no crack in it, nor any holes, neither ascending nor descending, and no tree. Then He Folded it, so He Placed it on top of the water.

Then Allah Created the fire from the water, so the fire bust out of the body of the  water until smoke arose from the water in accordance with Allah so Desired it to 
rise. So He Created from that smoke, clear and pure sky in which there were no 
cracks nor any holes, and that is His Statement: “[79:27] Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it. [79:28] He raised high its height, then put it into a right good state. [79:29] And He made dark its night and brought out its light”. He said: ‘And there was no sun, and no moon, and no stars and no clouds. Then He Folded it and Placed it upon the earth, then Established two 
creations. Then He Raised the sky before the earth, so that is His Statement, Mighty is His Mention: “[79:30] And the earth, He expanded it after that”. He Said that He Spread it out’. So the Syrian said to him, ‘O Abu Ja’far, the Statement of Allah the High: 

“[21:30] Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them”. So Abu Ja’far said: ‘Perhaps you think that these two used to be stuck together and there were separated from each other?’ 
He said, ‘Yes’. Abu Ja’far said: ‘Seek Forgiveness from your Lordazwj, for it is the Statement of Allah Mighty and Majestic that they were closed up, meaning that the sky used to be closed up and no rain descended from it, and the earth was closed up and did not grow any seed (vegetation). So when Allah Blessed and High Created the creatures, He spread therein all kinds of animals. He Opened up the sky by the rain and the earth by the seed’. The Syrian said, ‘I testify 
that you are from the children of the Prophets and that your knowledge is  their knowledge’.

 

Quote

H 14516 – Muhammad, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Ibn Mahboub, from Al-A’ala Bin Razeyn, from Muhammad Bin Muslim and Al-Hajjaal, from Al-A’ala, from Muhammad Bin Muslim who said: 


Abu Ja’far said to me:

‘Everything used to be water, and His Throne used to be on the water. So Allah Mighty is His Mention Commanded the water, so a  fire was ignited. Then He Commanded the fire, so it was extinguished and smoke  arose from its subsidence. So Allah created the Heavens from that smoke, and Created the earth from the ash. Then the water, and the fire, and the wind quarrelled. So the water said, ‘I am the greatest army of Allah’, and the wind said,  ‘I am the greatest army of Allah, and the fire said, ‘I am the greatest army of Allah. So Allah Mighty and Majestic Revealed unto the wind: “You are My greatest army’. 

 

After studying the above, I pictured it this way :

First element from which all other elements were made is 1 water. Then God created 2 wind or air that started swirling creating bubbles that form 3 foam. Then 4 fire was created from the motion of water and air, while 5 smoke and 6 ash resulted, which created 7 heaven and 8 earth. 

 

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The other day another revelation came to me when reading a verse that a member by the name Souroush gets credit for sharing with us. 

He/she noticed how the verse that is the core of this thread starts off by showing that the first self or self that was created before creating its couple, is described as female.. 

From the model we have of Allah creating the first being other than Him, that would be the yin, before the yang. 

According to taoism the element of water consists of yin-yang-yin. 

 

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