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In the Name of God بسم الله

Rant on Progressive Muslims

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Honestly? Progressive Muslims don't understand why Muslim kids in Sweden blew up when they did after a Quran burning, they don't know that Malmo has high rates of poverty, violence within their immigrant communities that also have to deal with daily racism. Worse, they usually don't care.

They don't understand the anger that comes from daily islamaphobia. Being told that you're backward, vile, disgusting creature for coming from an Islamic culture. Seeing your parents ridiculed for their accents, treated as problems rather than as human beings. Living in countries where the local leaders get votes by speaking against the 'Muslim problem'. Having folks, even within the liberal POC 'woke' realm dehumanize you with so-called 'polite language'.

Reason why they don't understand is because they've done better than all of us in assimilating to western culture. They don't don the hijab, they might not have an accent. They aren't the most practicing so there's no awkward conversations with their bosses about needing a small break to do Duhr prayer. They may also drink! So the pervasive drinking culture that governs so much of social interaction amongst non-Muslims in Europe and North America they have no issue in getting involved in.

It's wrong that Muslims try to present Islam as some sort of cultural identity, that even the white revert can just strip their whiteness once they say the shahada. Nevertheless, progressive Muslims try to make us ashamed for our diverse cultural identities. And when we get attacked, literally killed at times, they say some meek words about how we all need to stick together or why islamaphobia is illogical based off of these and these statistics.

This is why influencers like Mohammad Hijab are so popular. More so than all the well known progressive Muslim thinkers from Mustafa Akyol to Mufti Abu Layth. He understands the anger. He feels that anger, at all of it. And expresses it that satisfies his Muslim viewers much more than any moderate/progressive Muslim can or are willing to do.

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If you really believe that the issues are all due to one way traffic coming from racists and islamophobes then you must have little to no experience with the kinds of immigrants you are defending or the kinds of areas that they inhabit.

I've never been to Malmö, but I'm very familiar with Molenbeek which is probably like the Malmö of Belgium except they export terrorists, and I can tell you the area is not full of angels.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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1 minute ago, Ali_Hussain said:

If you really believe that the issues are all due to one way traffic coming from racists and islamophobes then you must have little to no experience with the kinds of immigrants you are defending or the kinds of areas that they inhabit.

I've never been to Malmö, but I'm very familiar with Molenbeek which is probably like the Malmö of Belgium except they export terrorists, and I can tell you the area is not full of angels.

No one are angels. And no, I'm not even Swedish. But I come from Muslim immigrant community here in Canada, and we also still have to deal with this ridiculousness, from violence within our own communities to aggression outside of the community. It all comes from a sense of lost and pure anger over that loss. We are essentially outsiders in the country we're born in, and people point that out all the freaking time.

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"Progressive muslims" have made a joke out of their own religion and internally they are swaying between faith and no faith, they are thorn between different personas and until they decide to either embrace what is right and abandon what is wrong, they will either regain their dignity or damn themselves to hell.

You will find more of these muslims in Sweden due to the culture there which is very unaccepting towards people who sway from the norm, something that is called "jantelagen".

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I know brother. See these folks in Canada too. 

If you don't practice it's whatever to me. I'm not the best Muslim myself. It's just when you decide to belittle your own family, culture and the religious symbols it finds sacred for the sake of fitting into the mainstream culture. Shows me how pathetic you are. 

It's also frustrating that these people get to represent the 'Muslim voice' in mainstream media. Take Ramy for example. 

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14 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

No one are angels. And no, I'm not even Swedish. But I come from Muslim immigrant community here in Canada, and we also still have to deal with this ridiculousness, from violence within our own communities to aggression outside of the community. It all comes from a sense of lost and pure anger over that loss. We are essentially outsiders in the country we're born in, and people point that out all the freaking time.

When someone does something to elicit a reaction and you just play into their hands, it is a sign of being an idiot.

When you destroy the property of innocent people it is a sign that you have no manners and your parents failed to install any decency in you.

These are the representatives of Islam? These brave majahideen taking the fight to the evil kuffar...may Allah save us, if that is the case we are truly lost.

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1 minute ago, Ali_Hussain said:

When someone does something to elicit a reaction and you just play into their hands, it is a sign of being an idiot.

When you destroy the property of innocent people it is a sign that you have no manners and your parents failed to install any decency in you.

These are the representatives of Islam? These brave majahideen taking the fight to the evil kuffar...may Allah save us, if that is the case we are truly lost.

No one is calling these guys are mujahideen. Especially me. 

I'm saying that I understand their anger. Hell, I feel that anger. The rant is really directed at progressive muslims I've seen on Twitter that are looking down on these folks without understanding the reasons. Often helping in perpetuating the illogically angry Muslim man. 

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4 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

When someone does something to elicit a reaction and you just play into their hands, it is a sign of being an idiot.

When you destroy the property of innocent people it is a sign that you have no manners and your parents failed to install any decency in you.

These are the representatives of Islam? These brave majahideen taking the fight to the evil kuffar...may Allah save us, if that is the case we are truly lost.

Are you referring to the protests that started due to the blasphemy towards the holy Quran by danish kafirs?

What do you believe is the right individual reaction as a muslim towards such actions?

 

Keep in mind that, to my knowledge, the majority of the fuqaha deems blasphemy of the holy Quran, such as wrapping it in bacon and setting it on fire, punishable by death.

Having said that, I dont believe people should destroy public property due to it.

This is my understanding, that when the laws of the land goes against the laws of Islam, and doing blasphemy towards the holy Quran with the intention of insulting and humiliating the muslims, goes against the laws of Islam, then the muslims should first and foremost follow the laws of Islam.

I have sent questions to both seyyed Sistani and seyyed Khamenei regarding this and I am waiting for their reply, no one should act without our learnt ones giving us the Islamic answer first in my opinion.

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10 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Are you referring to the protests that started due to the blasphemy towards the holy Quran by danish kafirs?

What do you believe is the right individual reaction as a muslim towards such actions?

 

Keep in mind that, to my knowledge, the majority of the fuqaha deems blasphemy of the holy Quran, such as wrapping it in bacon and setting it on fire, punishable by death.

Having said that, I dont believe people should destroy public property due to it.

But I believe that the kafirs who set the holy Quran on fire should themselves be set on fire, they should be directly held responsible for their action and if someone protects them, such as the police, while they are doing blasphemy towards the holy Quran, then their protectors should also be subject to attacks.

This is my understanding, that when the laws of the land goes against the laws of Islam, and doing blasphemy towards the holy Quran with the intention of insulting and humiliating the muslims, goes against the laws of Islam, then the muslims should first and foremost follow the laws of Islam.

I have sent questions to both seyyed Sistani and seyyed Khamenei regarding this and I am waiting for their reply, no one should act without our learnt ones giving us the Islamic answer first in my opinion.

The video that I saw was of three idiots in a park burning the Qur'an, the reaction was a load of guys destroying not only public, but private property.

Whatever the correct punishment is, how can anyone justify their reaction, it just made the situation worse.

No wonder so many Muslims support BLM, they both agree in collective guilt and collective punishment. 

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It's quite incredible how in your eyes anyone who doesn't subscribe to the modern day muslim gangster culture in urban european cities is a 'progressive muslim who probably drinks and doesn't pray.'

Dealing drugs, grooming underage girls, selling illegal firearms are not permitted in islam. Maybe the muslimeen should adhere to the rules of their religion instead of blaming their host countries (whose social benefits they seem to consider as halal, but everything else haram) for their state of negligence (ghaflah)

Edited by Mahdavist
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22 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

It's quite incredible how in your eyes anyone who doesn't subscribe to the modern day muslim gangster culture in urban european cities is a 'progressive muslim who probably drinks and doesn't pray.'

Dealing drugs, grooming underage girls, selling illegal firearms are not permitted in islam. Maybe the muslimeen should adhere to the rules of their religion instead of blaming their host countries (whose social benefits they seem to consider as halal, but everything else haram) for their state of negligence (ghaflah)

Everybody keeps missing my point. And I don't know if you're doing it on purpose honestly. 

I guess it's my bad with using the Malmo incident as an example. I just wanted to show how, well, really [Edited Out]ty young Muslims feel about being Muslim in countries like ours. Sure you come to appreciate democracy and individual freedom, but you also grow up being told that you're the enemy, that there's something literally wrong with you. 

I've been ostracized and demonized for my religious beliefs and I was never part of any gang culture. 

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51 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

I'm saying that I understand their anger. Hell, I feel that anger. The rant is really directed at progressive muslims I've seen on Twitter that are looking down on these folks without understanding the reasons.

Do you really understand? If you do, then why does seem like you're condoning these "mujahideen" who blow themselves up, throw acid or run over people over because they feel marginalized in a society that looks down on them? Society doesn't look down on them, these "mujahideen" look on the societies they dwell in and use  Islam to justify their "rage" and lawlessness. Yes, it is hard living in an area where Islam isn't the majority  but these people make me want to gag. They make life difficult for me and as others who want to live without being treated like a terrorist, simply because these one of scumbags decided to go postal.

Whenever they do decide to react, I'm treated with suspicion within  my own family for a few days, I can see it in their eyes. You  have no idea how stressful it is for me as the only Muslim in the family. I absolutely loathe these losers and their fake anger; They are mentally ill and sully Islam.

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34 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

I've been ostracized and demonized for my religious beliefs and I was never part of any gang culture

So have I, never once I have ever the need to sympathize with criminals. The reason you are being ostracized or demonized is because of these gangs and terrorists who give Muslims a really bad name. The reason people defile or burn the Qur'an? So we react and get angry, so they can say "Look, these people are angry, they must be radicalized and dangerous. See, I was right about Islam breeding terrorism and hatred."

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@BleedKnee I also live in Canada. I’ve never been to Europe in my life and so cannot accurately judge the situation of Muslims there. As I understand it, based on what I read and the videos I watch, the Muslims in Europe, specifically the newly arrived refugees from the Levant and the North African communities, have really damaged our reputation and their behavior is a factor for the reaction of Islamophobia and xenophobia. Young males from this demographic are hardly religious or observant Muslims. They tend to be involved in gangs and criminal activity. Look how much damage the grooming gangs and child sex trafficking scandals have done to the broader Muslim community in UK and other parts of Europe. The New Zealand shooting was actually partially a reaction to the murder of a European girl by some deplorable Muslim. Brenton Tarrant mentioned that specifically in his manifesto as his main justification for what he was about to do.

Of course, there are economic considerations of poverty and trauma from war which explain why some of those Muslim male youth from the Levant and other places behave so poorly in Europe. But as Muslims, we should all know better and remember that our actions have manifold reverberations in contrast to the action of some non-Muslim. We pride ourselves on being a community that is the best moral example, so we have to be judged more harshly than others if our claim is to be taken seriously by them.

Edited by Cherub786
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1 hour ago, BleedKnee said:

Everybody keeps missing my point. And I don't know if you're doing it on purpose honestly. 

I guess it's my bad with using the Malmo incident as an example. I just wanted to show how, well, really [Edited Out]ty young Muslims feel about being Muslim in countries like ours. Sure you come to appreciate democracy and individual freedom, but you also grow up being told that you're the enemy, that there's something literally wrong with you. 

I've been ostracized and demonized for my religious beliefs and I was never part of any gang culture. 

I have been living in Finland 30 years and I have never seen a bad attitude towards us without good reason (yes sometimes there is racism, but that is everywhere). There is always a reason and it is the bad bringing, bad attitude toward the western people, very horrible ethics, no respect to the country laws. And these are so common with Muslims here living in the west. I got more angry with Muslims behavior here than with the local people. Specially the recent migration are absolute horrible, I feel like they are gangs who fled from their own country. The immigrants have increased so much criminal activities and now days we have increased in constant fighting in every part of Helsinki and other cities. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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3 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

It's also frustrating that these people get to represent the 'Muslim voice' in mainstream media. Take Ramy for example. 

Regarding these so-called “progressive” Muslims, they definitely do tend to be people who make it their business to oppose and bad mouth the wider Muslim community, and also the orthodox beliefs and practice of Islam, in order to attain validation from the non-Muslims. In many cases they have personally been hurt or victimized by other Muslims, and so have a sort of agenda of vendetta in trying to harm the broader community of Muslims.

Some of the older ones like Tarek Fatah come from a radical Leftist or Marxist background. During the 1960s and 1970s, this secular, leftist, socialist and Marxist tendency was quite strong in the Muslim world. A whole generation of Muslims were completely brainwashed and indoctrinated into Marxist narrative. Then when certain dictators and regimes, like General Zia in Pakistan, Khomeini in Iran, and others, cracked down heavily on the Leftists, using the name of Islam for justification, these Leftists have ever since viewed orthodox Islam negatively, a weapon easily used against them by the imperialists, capitalists and “bourgeoisie”.

These radical Leftist and Marxists are particularly bitter about how a major factor in the fall and collapse of the Soviet Union was the Jihad in Afghanistan, which really set the tone for an “Islam vs. Communism” narrative.

Tarek Fatah may no longer be a hardcore radical Leftist as he was long ago, but he still has that bitterness toward the right-wing element of Muslims. Therefore, in order to extract his vendetta, he has completely aligned himself with and taken up the cause of the fascist Hindu Right or Hindutva. How else can you explain how a hardcore leftist Pakistani is now suddenly the biggest apologist for Modi, BJP and Hindutva policies?

Now let me move on to another stream of “progressive” Muslims, the homosexualists. Their motivation is the need for validation of their un-Islamic lifestyle, while still maintaining some kind of Muslim identity and cultural attachment to the Muslim community, our symbols and rituals. In the early 2000s, a lady named Irshad Manji was spearheading this particular progressive Muslim movement. At the time no one took her seriously, but now this tendency has mushroomed considerably.

The most dangerous stream of progressive Muslims are the intellectuals among them, who come from the older modernist school of thought whose seeds were planted by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, Muhammad Abduh, Iqbal, and others in the late 19th century.

These people are more dangerous because they can cast a wider net to trap unsuspecting Muslims and indoctrinate them.

Edited by Cherub786
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I do agree there is a racist element among Europeans and a historical suspicion of foreigners, whilst there may be some explanations for this, it is still wrong.

What I have an issue with is that this isn't any worse than it is on any other continent, at least for Europeans it has become a taboo to be openly racist, so the racists have to resort to what is known as 'dog whistling' (I think, some of the leftist political commentators that I watch are always making reference to that) - also their leaders are working hard to brainwash them to accept such large scale multiculturalism, which isn't necessarily always a bad thing (for us at any rate) except that included in the brainwashing is all the lgtb anti-God anti-religion stuff which as we can see has led to many places to be on the road to being modern day Sodoms and Gamoras, which definitely is a bad thing.

Also to talk about islamophobia is a bit of a joke, especially if we compare it to India, Israel or Myanmar. However I do agree that there are anti-Muslim messages in films and in the media, but that not every critique of Islam is islamophobic, people can genuinely have differences of opinion based on their world view. Criticism of Muslims is definitely not islamophobic.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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3 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

We are essentially outsiders in the country we're born in, and people point that out all the freaking time.

I actually think this is a blessing in disguise, that micro aggression we sometimes face where it is implied we don’t really belong here and aren’t part of the mainstream society. This is the barrier that prevents assimilation. As long as it isn’t manifested as discrimination in terms of our rights and fair treatment, I think it is good that we are looked upon as outsiders. The problem is the progressive Muslims you are ranting about want us to be assimilated and want us to become fully part and parcel of Western society. For us Muslims, the protection and vitality of the Faith takes precedence over all other considerations, including social, economic and political. Since assimilation will inevitably harm our religious identity and observance, it is to be avoided like the plague.

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45 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Now let me move on to another stream of “progressive” Muslims, the homosexualists.

I feel like there isn't much there is to this, I've been personally asked about this by a workmate. I told him the truth, that Islam forbids sodomy, but in a secular society which the US clearly is as per the constitution, we have no right to interfere with what the democratic process has decided is appropriate. That's all you need to say if you're a practicing muslim. There are some among the lgbt community who then say no, it is not acceptable to have a religion that does not endorse homosexuality, that's different, because then you're infringing on people's liberty to believe whatever they want, which is again against the principles of the constitution. 

In the recent Muharram lectures, I feel like Ammar Nakshawani did an adequate job on this topic. He said the principles of the religion don't change, but live and let live,  and if people in the community are gay, then do not reject them coming to mosque or ostracize them, but make it clear to them that the act of sodomy is forbidden, and the rules unlike in a secular society do not change based on what people have decided is moral or not. 

I feel the progressive faction of the democratic party aligns most closely with my values so I continue to support them, but that doesn't require me to go to a pride march or anything. I actually hold this view regardless of relationship (straight or gay), there is too little appreciation of things that deserved to be kept private being kept private. Do whatever what you want behind closed doors, I don't see why everyone has to know. The most important thing in a relationship is the two of you, not the world.

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14 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I feel like there isn't much there is to this, I've been personally asked about this by a workmate. I told him the truth, that Islam forbids sodomy, but in a secular society which the US clearly is as per the constitution, we have no right to interfere with what the democratic process has decided is appropriate. That's all you need to say if you're a practicing muslim. There are some among the lgbt community who then say no, it is not acceptable to have a religion that does not endorse homosexuality, that's different, because then you're infringing on people's liberty to believe whatever they want, which is again against the principles of the constitution. 

I love the US Constitution or more specifically the Bill of Rights. If only the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world, had that same Bill of Rights.

I understand that in the workplace we have to be careful about what we say and be politically correct unless we are okay with jeopardizing our employment. But we also have freedom of speech and can express our view, no matter how hateful it may be regarded by others, and when and where we can express that disgust and condemnation of LGBTQ, we ought to take advantage of that.

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if people in the community are gay, then do not reject them coming to mosque or ostracize them

We aren’t authorized from preventing any Muslim entering a mosque, no matter how sinful he may be. But I question why someone who is openly homosexual would come to the mosque. Someone who is in the closet and concealing his struggle with sexual orientation is understandable. You can't ostracize what you don't know. Someone who is openly homosexual means he is proud of that and doesn’t regard it as evil in the least. Why would such a person go to the mosque? A mosque is the last place a proud homo would want to go.

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I feel the progressive faction of the democratic party aligns most closely with my values so I continue to support them

I thought you live in Tanzania. Personally I’m apolitical and would never support any political party.

Edited by Cherub786
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1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

I love the US Constitution or more specifically the Bill of Rights. If only the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world, had that same Bill of Rights.

 

It isn't perfect, but I think for its time it was a progressive document. The issue is it is often trampled on by politicians.

4 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Someone who is openly homosexual means he is proud of that and doesn’t regard it as evil in the least. Why would such a person go to the mosque? A mosque is the last place a proud homo would want to go.

People want to be both gay and muslim and it's an important part of their identity and can't choose one or the other? I think this was in reference to something that happened in the Shia community in Canada where a gay couple got married and the parents kind of went all public about it saying they couldn't justify denying their child happiness and people were threatening banning them from the mosque. I think it was to make it clear that we cannot do so. 

I think this is a difficult subject, I don't actually believe that being gay is a choice. I think if people explicitly just made it clear that this was a test as opposed to they couldn't possibly be gay naturally, we'd have an easier time opening up the forum for discussion on how to provide such people with the support they need etc.

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What do they mean by “radicalization”? If they mean a tendency toward violence in the name of Religion, or justifying such violence and expressing sympathy with terrorism and violent extremism, I agree such radicalization is bad.

Do they mean by radicalization a hatred for false religions, sexual immorality especially homosex/sodomy, idolatry, magic, and the like? I regard such radicalization as good.

Do they mean a tendency to look down on non-Muslims, a sense of superiority over them, a tendency to isolate and limit interaction with them? This kind of radicalization is also good.

Do they mean by radicalization adapting an ultra-conservative Islamic lifestyle and strictly following Shari’ah, ladies fully veiling themselves including the face, wearing Middle Eastern type clothing, keeping a full beard, sending children to madaris and Islamic schools instead of the public schools, living in ghettos, speaking our own language instead of English, ladies not going to university but getting married early and becoming homemakers? Again, this is a good radicalization.

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1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

It isn't perfect, but I think for its time it was a progressive document. The issue is it is often trampled on by politicians.

Progressive document for its time”, the irony is, I don’t know of any other constitution that is more progressive than that 18th century text till this day, including in the most liberal, Western democracies. In my own country Canada we have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which more or less guarantees the same civil rights and liberties as the Bill of Rights – except sadly it doesn’t guarantee the right to bear arms and form militias, which I believe is a fundamental civil right. But even Canada’s Charter is flawed because of Section 33, known as the notwithstanding clause, it allows Parliament or provincial legislatures to temporarily override certain portions of the Charter.

Next you say that politicians often trample over the Bill of Rights. I’m not entirely convinced of this, rather I’m quite skeptical of the claim, perhaps you can elaborate.

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People want to be both gay and muslim and it's an important part of their identity and can't choose one or the other?

People may desire to manifest both these identities simultaneously, but any sensible person knows they are fundamentally at odds with each other and can’t be reconciled.

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people were threatening banning them from the mosque.

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم never banned even those Sahabah رضى الله عنهم who disobeyed him in a critical matter and it was commanded by Allah to discipline them with a social boycott. So I think it’s pretty clear that there is absolutely no basis to ban any self-professing Muslim from entering a Mosque. But there is a justification for enacting a total social boycott of these people, like the scenario you mentioned of parents supporting the gay marriage of their children. They cannot be banned from the mosque, but I totally agree they should be socially boycotted until they repent publicly and denounce their previous actions. Social boycott would entail absolutely no talking to them, not even giving or responding to Salam.

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18 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Next you say that politicians often trample over the Bill of Rights. I’m not entirely convinced of this, rather I’m quite skeptical of the claim, perhaps you can elaborate.

 

Things like the patriot act give the government way too much power to detain people without trial, which many including conservative justice like Scalia have argued violates the first and fifth amendment. The expansion of surveillance has gone beyond anything necessary to combat terrorism, if you look at the way the FBI has at times spied on African American activists in the 60's under the civil rights movement. They even used it to launch operations like Vulgar Betrayal in the 1990's where they spied on people on the grounds that they were providing material support to Palestinian groups linked to Hamas. There was no evidence of this, but the guy who ran the operation had a history of bigotry against Islam. In fact, there was recently a documentary with a journalist investigating the surveillance of her neighbourhood, and often when she would submit FOIA (freedom of information act) requests to get information about whether her family or friends were being surveilled, information was always redacted to protect the FBI's nefarious activity. In the middle of the investigation, the guy who headed the operation who she had never spoken to at all, knocked on her family home door, where she no longer lived. He then called after saying, I know you've been doing this all along, but we're the good guys, and you're the bad guys, we want to protect America, you guys want to destroy it etc. etc. Mind you, there was no record of anyone supporting Hamas in this neighbourhood, it was people involved in humanitarian work in the west bank mostly. People like Eugene Debs were imprisoned on grounds of sedition for giving an anti-war speech during WW1. Actually, the constitution may guarantee freedom of speech, but up until 1960 when the state of Alabama sued the NYT for publishing things about police activity during the civil rights movement for libel and defamation charges, and the supreme court had to overturn it 4 years later, many southern states were able to use defamation and libel to prevent reporting on things related to civil rights activism. Then of course there are other challenges related to the overuse of executive power when it comes to foreign policy, where a lot of decisions like the targeted assassination program outside of declared warzones (Afghanistan & Iraq) are not subject to legislative scrutiny and war is supposed to be constitutionally declared by congress.

 

Edited by Mohamed1993
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20 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

I don’t know of any other constitution that is more progressive than that 18th century text till this day

What I mean is the constitution has undergone changes since and it isn't a perfect document and it will continue to have things added to it as people's idea of what American ideals ought to be. 

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Muslims able to counter 9/11-related Islamophobia: Kevin Barrett

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Islamophobia by the US Administration?

A: 9/11 was a false flag orchestrated by Zionist neoconservatives in hopes of turning the US and the world against their Muslim enemies. It was not merely designed to launch wars on Afghanistan and Iraq, nor simply to “take out seven countries in five years” as General Wesley Clark explained. The larger purpose was to recast Israel’s “Muslim problem” as a global problem, and turn the whole world against Islam and Muslims on behalf of Zionist expansionism. In this, it has unfortunately been quite successful. Thanks to the 9/11 public relations operation and the wave of Zionist propaganda it unleashed, Islamophobia has become a permanent fixture of US and European politics, while spilling over into genocide in India, Kashmir, Burma, etc.

Trump is just an opportunist who hitched his wagon to 9/11-generated Islamophobia and rode it all the way to the White House. Though Trump expresses hatred of Muslims more blatantly, Biden and Harris are equally on board with Israel’s genocidal anti-Islam project. The whole US political establishment is owned and operated by Zionist billionaires on behalf of the so-called State of Israel. If the American people ever wake up, they will execute their entire political class for treason.

Q: According to the US media and investigations, majority of the 9/11 attackers were nationals of Saudi Arabia, trained by Saudi-linked extremist groups. How is Saudi Arabia still regarded as the closest US ally today?

A: Bin Salman has himself admitted that everything the Saudis have ever done on behalf of “radical Islam” was ordered by US leaders. In a March 22 2018 interview with the Washington Post, Bin Salman said that violent Wahhabi terrorism “was used as a tool against Soviets during the Cold War era, and the Saudi-funded expansion of the sect was done on the demand of the United States.”........

https://en.abna24.com/news//muslims-able-to-counter-911-related-islamophobia-kevin-barrett_1071001.html

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On 9/10/2020 at 9:20 PM, BleedKnee said:

Honestly? Progressive Muslims don't understand why Muslim kids in Sweden blew up when they did after a Quran burning, they don't know that Malmo has high rates of poverty, violence within their immigrant communities that also have to deal with daily racism. Worse, they usually don't care.

They don't understand the anger that comes from daily islamaphobia. Being told that you're backward, vile, disgusting creature for coming from an Islamic culture. Seeing your parents ridiculed for their accents, treated as problems rather than as human beings. Living in countries where the local leaders get votes by speaking against the 'Muslim problem'. Having folks, even within the liberal POC 'woke' realm dehumanize you with so-called 'polite language'.

Reason why they don't understand is because they've done better than all of us in assimilating to western culture. They don't don the hijab, they might not have an accent. They aren't the most practicing so there's no awkward conversations with their bosses about needing a small break to do Duhr prayer. They may also drink! So the pervasive drinking culture that governs so much of social interaction amongst non-Muslims in Europe and North America they have no issue in getting involved in.

It's wrong that Muslims try to present Islam as some sort of cultural identity, that even the white revert can just strip their whiteness once they say the shahada. Nevertheless, progressive Muslims try to make us ashamed for our diverse cultural identities. And when we get attacked, literally killed at times, they say some meek words about how we all need to stick together or why islamaphobia is illogical based off of these and these statistics.

This is why influencers like Mohammad Hijab are so popular. More so than all the well known progressive Muslim thinkers from Mustafa Akyol to Mufti Abu Layth. He understands the anger. He feels that anger, at all of it. And expresses it that satisfies his Muslim viewers much more than any moderate/progressive Muslim can or are willing to do.

Salam brother,

I'm not sure about your specific community, but where I lived (US) 'progressive' Muslims tend to be hyper aware of Islamaphobia. Assimilation is a huge problem, and conservative Muslims tend to assimilate as many of them begin to even identify as white if they can pass as white or sometimes simply, American. I've watched conservative Muslims defend US imperialism.

But in any case your post was about progressive Muslims. I agree they are problematic. It shakes me to my core to see a Muslim post an LGBT flag on social media. The only Muhajjiba in my entire high school took off her hijab recently. I think that the core of the problem is that as Muslims we should stick together whereever we migrate. We need a centralized, unified platform (and or political party) for Muslims to exist in as complete Muslims. When Muslims try to fit into non-Muslim political parties, we tend to lose our identity.

Wa ssalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

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3 hours ago, fawze24 said:

Salam brother,

I'm not sure about your specific community, but where I lived (US) 'progressive' Muslims tend to be hyper aware of Islamaphobia. Assimilation is a huge problem, and conservative Muslims tend to assimilate as many of them begin to even identify as white if they can pass as white or sometimes simply, American. I've watched conservative Muslims defend US imperialism.

But in any case your post was about progressive Muslims. I agree they are problematic. It shakes me to my core to see a Muslim post an LGBT flag on social media. The only Muhajjiba in my entire high school took off her hijab recently. I think that the core of the problem is that as Muslims we should stick together whereever we migrate. We need a centralized, unified platform (and or political party) for Muslims to exist in as complete Muslims. When Muslims try to fit into non-Muslim political parties, we tend to lose our identity.

Wa ssalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

I consider myself a conservative (but sinful) Muslim, and likewise I defend U.S. Imperialism. Furthermore, I am racially White, as Pakistani, Punjabi, North Indian people are actually White Aryans and we are closely related to the Whites of Europe.

Now defence of U.S. Imperialism is not a sign of assimilation or cultural Westernization. It is a purely political position.

Likewise, identifying as White has nothing to do with assimilation. If you look at the U.S. Categories of race they are 1. White 2. Black 3. Asian 4. Native American or Pacific Islander

Sometimes they had Hispanic or Latino of any race. Now obviously we are not Black, Asian, Native American, Pacific Islander, or Hispanic, so the only option left is White.

I strongly oppose assimilation and cultural Westernization of Muslims.

Edited by Cherub786
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Definitely I've made some assumptions. I'm speaking as a Somali-Canadian whose more than aware about how the 'war on terror' has ruined his homeland. As such, I hate all kinds of imperialism, and just wish all modern empires (west and east) falls apart. 

From where I am, and from what I see, those who promptly identify as progressive (so they can be overtly practicing or not), tend to become apologists for empire and domestic racism. They usually use the same language of 'rationalism' to suggest that "white  people's" disgust and outright hatred for Canadian Muslims is perfectly justified. Them and those that brandish the ex-Muslim brand that engage in the same rhetoric are usually allies with non-Muslim islamaphobes. Hence the rant. 

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51 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

Definitely I've made some assumptions. I'm speaking as a Somali-Canadian whose more than aware about how the 'war on terror' has ruined his homeland. As such, I hate all kinds of imperialism, and just wish all modern empires (west and east) falls apart. 

From where I am, and from what I see, those who promptly identify as progressive (so they can be overtly practicing or not), tend to become apologists for empire and domestic racism. They usually use the same language of 'rationalism' to suggest that "white  people's" disgust and outright hatred for Canadian Muslims is perfectly justified. Them and those that brandish the ex-Muslim brand that engage in the same rhetoric are usually allies with non-Muslim islamaphobes. Hence the rant. 

I’m not sure what you mean by “empire racism”. I don’t regard Western imperialism or neo-colonialism as racism, but the liberation of Muslims from tyrannical Muslim rulers and regimes, which is to be highly desired.

I do agree with you that the so-called progressives have a tendency to align themselves with anti-Muslim forces, the ex-Muslim movement which is very anti-Muslim including on a political level.

By the way, this isn’t limited to the “progressives”, it is also a tendency among a large segment of the Shi’ah. People like “Imam” Tawhidi, and major Shi’ite figures in India, are strongly aligned with anti-Muslim forces that seek to politically and socially marginalize Muslims and spread fear and hatred of Islam.

Edited by Cherub786
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