Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

12 Caliphs

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

:bismillah:

I would like to start with quoting few ahadith:

Quote

1. Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet (s) saying:
There will be Twelve Commanders.” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, “All of them will be from Quraysh.”
 

2. The Prophet (s) said: “The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh.”

Who are these unknown 12 Caliphs? Did the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) ever gave any hint of these Caliphs or told their names? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Just a thought
36 minutes ago, Cool said:

:bismillah:

I would like to start with quoting few ahadith:

Who are these unknown 12 Caliphs? Did the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) ever gave any hint of these Caliphs or told their names? 

And also they will be “triumphant”!

That alone gets rid of 10 imams straight away.

pick and choose how you want to post a hadith instead of fully posting it.

great shame.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Guest Just a thought said:

And also they will be “triumphant”!

Who are those 12 Calips? Don't you understand simple questions? Or is it the matter that you have no answer?

2 hours ago, Guest Just a thought said:

That alone gets rid of 10 imams straight away

:hahaha: I have asked about 12 Caliphs. Where are the rest of 2 Imams by the way? 

2 hours ago, Guest Just a thought said:

pick and choose how you want to post a hadith instead of fully posting it.

Humm, lets take some complete references from Sahih Mislim only at the moment:

1) It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth),

وَحَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ يُونُسَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَاصِمُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ قَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ فِي قُرَيْشٍ مَا بَقِيَ مِنَ النَّاسِ اثْنَانِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1820

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 4

2) It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I joined the company of the Prophet (ﷺ) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ح وَحَدَّثَنَا رِفَاعَةُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ الْوَاسِطِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الطَّحَّانَ - عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ دَخَلْتُ مَعَ أَبِي عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِي حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ فِيهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِكَلاَمٍ خَفِيَ عَلَىَّ - قَالَ - فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 a

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 5

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4477

3) It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِي عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِكَلِمَةٍ خَفِيَتْ عَلَىَّ فَسَأَلْتُ أَبِي مَاذَا قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 b

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 6

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4478

4) It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا هَدَّابُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرَ بْنَ سَمُرَةَ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً لَمْ أَفْهَمْهَا فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 d

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 8

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4480

5) It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:

order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ، بْنِ سَمُرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِشَىْءٍ لَمْ أَفْهَمْهُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 e

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 9

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4481

6) It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I went with my father to the Messenger of Allah (may peeace be upon him) and I heard him say: This religion would continue to remain powerful and dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then he added something which I couldn't catch on account of the noise of the people. I asked my father: What did he say? My father said: He has said that all of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا نَصْرُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ الْجَهْضَمِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَوْنٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ النَّوْفَلِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا أَزْهَرُ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَوْنٍ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ انْطَلَقْتُ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَمَعِي أَبِي فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ كَلِمَةً صَمَّنِيهَا النَّاسُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 f

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 10

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4482

7) It has been narrated on the authority of Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas who said:

I wrote (a letter) to Jabir b. Samura and sent it to him through my servant Nafi', asking him to inform me of something he had heard from the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). He wrote to me (in reply): I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say on Friday evening, the day on which al-Aslami was stoned to death (for committing adultery): The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish. also heard him say: A small force of the Muslims will capture the white palace, the police of the Persian Emperor or his descendants. I also heard him say: Before the Day of Judgment there will appear (a number of) impostors. You are to guard against them. I also heard him say: When God grants wealth to any one of you, he should first spend it on himself and his family (and then give it in charity to the poor). I heard him (also) say: I will be your forerunner at the Cistern (expecting your arrival).

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، وَأَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا حَاتِمٌ، - وَهُوَ ابْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ - عَنِ الْمُهَاجِرِ بْنِ مِسْمَارٍ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدِ بْنِ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ، قَالَ كَتَبْتُ إِلَى جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ مَعَ غُلاَمِي نَافِعٍ أَنْ أَخْبِرْنِي بِشَىْءٍ، سَمِعْتَهُ مِنْ، رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ فَكَتَبَ إِلَىَّ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَوْمَ جُمُعَةٍ عَشِيَّةَ رُجِمَ الأَسْلَمِيُّ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الدِّينُ قَائِمًا حَتَّى تَقُومَ السَّاعَةُ أَوْ يَكُونَ عَلَيْكُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ عُصَيْبَةٌ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ يَفْتَتِحُونَ الْبَيْتَ الأَبْيَضَ بَيْتَ كِسْرَى أَوْ آلِ كِسْرَى ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ بَيْنَ يَدَىِ السَّاعَةِ كَذَّابِينَ فَاحْذَرُوهُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِذَا أَعْطَى اللَّهُ أَحَدَكُمْ خَيْرًا فَلْيَبْدَأْ بِنَفْسِهِ وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ أَنَا الْفَرَطُ عَلَى الْحَوْضِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1822 a

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 11

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4483

Next time you will get complete references from Bukhari as well as from your other books.

So question here again with reference to the 1st hadith: Where is the caliph? (The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth),)

Question with reference to rest of the ahadith: Who are these 12 Caliphs?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

The sunni scholars are confused about the selection of the 12 caliphs, they try to interpret the hadith by cherry picking out of the caliphs in history of islam . They choose first 4 caliphs and put some names and finally stop at Imam al Mahdi.

Some sunni scholars even deny this hadith considering it as weak. Some put the names of caliph like Yazeed bin Muawiya in the list of 12 caliphs. 

You may like to see the discussion about the topic in the link mentioned below:

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to post
Share on other sites

I mentioned this example to @Mahdavist and await his reply, let me mention it here too:

Suppose a group of tourists are touring New York City. They are all Chinese people, citizens of China. As they are standing out from the crowd, a curious local approaches them and asks “where are you folks from?”

What is the logical answer? “We’re from China” or “We’re from Asia”?

If this group of tourists say “we’re from Asia”, is the questioner in his right to assume that they must be from different countries within Asia, because if they were from a specific country of Asia they would have named that country and narrowed it down, instead of saying “Asia” which is broad and covers dozens of countries.

Likewise, when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that the twelve Caliphs will all be from Quraish, it is only logical to assume that they will not all be from a narrow branch or lineage within Quraish, but represent at least two or more different clans or lineages within Quraish.

The problem with trying to plug in the Ithna Ashari list of 12 Imams into this Hadith is that those 12 Imams were all from a specific, narrower branch within Quraish, i.e., Bani Hashim, and in fact, Talibids. Therefore, if the Hadith was speaking of them, it would have been worded “12 Caliphs all of them from Bani Hashim” or “12 Caliphs, all of them from the progeny of Abu Talib”.

Furthermore, the Ithna Ashari list of 12 Imams is problematic because the existence of the twelfth Imam is hotly contested and highly doubtful, as I explained here:

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Likewise, when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that the twelve Caliphs will all be from Quraish, it is only logical to assume that they will not all be from a narrow branch or lineage within Quraish, but represent at least two or more different clans or lineages within Quraish.

Why it is ONLY logical? Lets see the example of "Shajratan Taiyyebatan" from Quran. 

أَلَمْ تَرَ كَيْفَ ضَرَبَ اللّهُ مَثَلاً كَلِمَةً طَيِّبَةً كَشَجَرةٍ طَيِّبَةٍ أَصْلُهَا ثَابِتٌ وَفَرْعُهَا فِي السَّمَاء

14:24

تُؤْتِي أُكُلَهَا كُلَّ حِينٍ بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهَا وَيَضْرِبُ اللّهُ الأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ

14:25 

They all could be from a narrow branch or lineage if they are the likes of "Ark of Noah", if they are from among the two weighty things, who never misguide their followers. 

Why imposing your logical fallacy on others by stating "it is only logical"?

2 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

 The problem with trying to plug in the Ithna Ashari list of 12 Imams into this Hadith is that those 12 Imams were all from a specific, narrower branch within Quraish, i.e., Bani Hashim, and in fact, Talibids. Therefore, if the Hadith was speaking of them, it would have been worded “12 Caliphs all of them from Bani Hashim” or “12 Caliphs, all of them from the progeny of Abu Talib”.

Well, do you have any answer for the questions I have raised? I have only asked about the 12 Caliphs mentioned in ahadith without lodging any claim at the moment.

1. Where is the Caliph? (The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth),)

2. Who are these 12 Caliphs?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
9 hours ago, Cool said:

They all could be from a narrow branch or lineage if they are the likes of "Ark of Noah", if they are from among the two weighty things, who never misguide their followers. 

Why imposing your logical fallacy on others by stating "it is only logical"?

brother, you may like to see further in the light of the verses of Quran and hadith about 12 Leaders as guide after the prophet in the nation:

 

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

In search of these 12 caliphs, I am able to collect few more references from Sunni books:

1. This Ummat will not end and the Day of Judgment will not come, till the coming of 12 Khalifas, they will be guided, on the Deen of Truth.

(Abdul Juldh, Fathul Bari Volume 13 page 79)

2. Allamah Badradaen Aini in Ummdthul Qari Sharah Sahih Bukhari narrates:

This Ummah will not end until the passing of the twelve, they will all be true guides from the Ahlulbayt.’

Ummdthul Qari Volume 2 page 282 and Volume 9 page 8

3. The Prophet of Allah said that I am the Chief of Prophets, Ali is the Chief of Wasi, after me there will be 12 Wasi, 1st of them is Ali (عليه السلام), last of them is Mahdi.

Faslul khitab page 423
Ya Nabi al Muwaddat page 105 (Beirut)

4. The Prophet said, “Mahdi is from us Ahlulbayt.”
1. Iqd al-Durar Fi Akhbar al-Mahdi al-Muntadhar page 21 Beirut Edition.
2. Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal, volume 1, page 84
3. Al-Mustadrak, voume 4, page 557 (al-Hakem said Sahih according to Muslim’s condition)
4. Al-Musanaf, by ibn Abi Shayba, volume 8, page 678
5. Al-Albani decalred it ‘Sahih’ in Silsila Sahiha, volume 5, page 486

I have not yet presented any Shi'i narrative here in this thread. Just trying to find the truth of 12 caliphs and who they possibly are.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

So it appears that Sunni's do believe that last one of the 12 caliph will be from Ahlul Bayt. Lets dig more into this:

1. The Prophet of Allah said, “O Fatima, Mahdi will be from your Lineage”
a. Dhukhair ul Uqba, page 136
b. Yanabi al-Muwada, volume 2, page 210

2. “Imam Mahdi is from my descendents from Fatima’s lineage”
a. Kanzul Ummal volume 14 page 264
b. Mishkat al Masabeeh page 470
c. Sawaiqh al Muhriqa page 237
d. Seerath Jaleeya Volume 1 page 193
e. Jami ul Sagheer Volume 2 page 579
f. Sunan Abu Dawud, English version, Ch. 36, Tradition #4271
g. Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4086 (Al-Albani declared it Sahih. In Sahih ibn Majah, volume 2, page 389)
h. Al-Kamil by ibn Uday, volume 3, page 429
i. Al-Tarikh al-Kabir, by Bukhari, volume 8, page 407

3. Hudhaifa [r] narrates: the Prophet of Allah said, if there is only one day left on this Earth, Allah will extend it so that a man will rise from my Ahle bayt who will be guided, who’s name will be the same as mine”. Salman Farsi asked “Prophet of Allah, from which son’s family will he be?” He (s) placed his hand on Hussain and said: “He will be the son of Hussain.”
a. Aqd ul Durur fi Zuhoor al Muntazir, page 24
b. Dhukhair al Uqba, page 136-137
c. Al-Arbaeen Hadithan fi Al-Mahdi by Abu Naeem Asfahani, 6th hadith.
d. Yanabi almuwada, volume 2, page 211
e. Al-Bayan fi Akhbar al-Zaman, by Kenji Shafeei, page 90 (al-Kenji said: ‘hasan’)
f. Faraed al-Semtain, by Hamwini
g. Al-Urf al-wardi fi Akhbar al-Mahdi, by Seuty, page 74

4. The Prophet of Allah said, “Mahdi will be from me and from the family of Husayn bin Ali”
Manaqib by Ibne Maghazli, page 215

5. “Even if only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will send a person from my Ahlul’Bayt who will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny misery”.
a. Al-Fusool al-Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki, Page 293 (Beirut edition)
b. Al bayaan fi Akbar Saibul Zamaan page 482 (Beirut edition)
c. Nur ul Absar page 345 (Beirut edition).

6. Abu Said al Khudri narrates he heard Rasulullah (s) say that the Day of Judgement shall not come until someone will come from my Ahlul-Bayt. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny misery.
a. Musnad Ibn Hanbal Volume 3 page 36 (Beirut) (Shu’aib al-Arnaoot said Sahih according to the two Sheikh’s condition)
b. Mustadrak al Hakim Volume 4 page 557 (Makka Edition). (al-Hakem said: Sahih according to the two Sheikh’s condition)

7. Rasulullah (s) said “Mahdi is he behind whom Esa bin Maryam shall offer Salat”
Kanz al Ummal Volume 14 page 226

8. Jalaluddin al-Suyuti mentioned that: “I have heard some of the deniers of (truth) deny what has been conveyed about Jesus that when he descends will pray the Fajr prayer behind al-Mahdi. They say, Jesus has higher status than to pray behind a non-Prophet. This is a bizarre opinion since the issue of prayer of Jesus behind al-Mahdi has been proven strongly via numerous authentic traditions from the Messenger of Allah, who is the most truthful.” And then al-Suyuti goes on narrating some of the traditions in this regard.
Nuzool Isa Ibn Maryam Akhir al-Zaman, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p56.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Just to add a new experience here. Some "Mujaddid like" people among Sunni's mentions the sequence of 12 caliphs as follows:

Quote

Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Hassan, Muawiya, Yazid, Muawiyah II, Marwan, Abdul Malik, Walid and Sulayman.

So according to this understanding, the rightly guided caliphs among these 12 were 5 only (according to Sunni's), if they count the caliphate of Imam Hassan (عليه السلام). Otherwise there are just 4 rightly guided caliphs only. However the above 12 were all counted as "Ulil Amr" and therefore their obedience is obligatory. 

So the very first question here would arise that why Muawiya rebelled against rightly guided "Ulil Amr" i.e., Imam Ali (عليه السلام)? The same person also rebelled against another rightly guided "Ulil Amr" i.e., Imam Hassan (عليه السلام). Then the very same person ruined the treaty clauses he made with Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) and nominated his son Yazeed (L). 

More ridiculous is that when in defence of this rebel, Ahlul Sunnah claim that it was the "ijtihadi mistake" of Muawiyah therefore he will receive one goodness (نیکی) while Imam Ali (عليه السلام) will get two.

Anyway, the 12 names above are not in line with the ahadith.

On 9/9/2020 at 5:53 PM, Cool said:

1) It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth),

Furthermore, it is worthy of noting how one single hadith from Jabir bin Samura has so many versions:

1. There will be Twelve Commanders.” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, “All of them will be from Quraysh.”

2. This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

3. The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men.......

4. Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs.....

5. order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. 

6. The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish.....

The common thing in all above versions is that there will be 12 Caliphs and the very first mentions this alone.

The second version starts with "this caliphate will not end" إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِ where was Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) pointing at by saying هَذَا الأَمْرَ (this matter or caliphate)? While there was no caliph appointed by him according to Sunnis and according to Umar Al-Khattab. 

This certainly proves that both Sunni's & Ummar Al-Khattab are wrong. Either Prophet has pointed to his Caliphate and said that "this caliphate will not end" or either he has nominated someone as caliph and pointed to him that "this caliphate will not end". 

I will conclude this point in my next post In-sha Allah.

 

 

Edited by Cool
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Cool said:

Either Prophet has pointed to his Caliphate and said that "this caliphate will not end" or either he has nominated someone as caliph and pointed to him that "this caliphate will not end". 

Lets move on to the third version for a moment:

1 hour ago, Cool said:

3) The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men.......

The Arabic text of this is as under:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ 

Look at the word وَلِيَهُمُ, this all matter is about "wilayah". Interestingly the very next hadith to this in Sahih Muslim (1821c) has not mentioned مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً, there is only mention of this phrase:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا ‏

The next Arabic hadith text (1821 d) is like this:

 لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً

أَمْرُ has been replaced with الإِسْلاَمُ here. 

Then in 1821 e:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏

Then in 1821 f:

‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏

أَمْرُ has been replaced with الدِّينُ here.

:) With all the efforts of covering up, one can get to the truth. أَمْرُ is nothing else but the leadership of People and Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a leader of people through his "Waliyah". And the same has been officially given to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Ghadeer. 

 

Edited by Cool
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2020 at 11:21 PM, Cool said:

2. Allamah Badradaen Aini in Ummdthul Qari Sharah Sahih Bukhari narrates:

This Ummah will not end until the passing of the twelve, they will all be true guides from the Ahlulbayt.’

Ummdthul Qari Volume 2 page 282 and Volume 9 page 8

Please verify this reference. Can you quote the matn, sanad, or at least the edition and publisher of Umdat al-Qari.

I have checked Umdat al-Qari as published by Dar al-Kutub Ilmiyah. What you quoted is not found in volume 2 page 282 – see for yourself:

title.png.cae02a156dde3321c905c79a26bd5bde.pngUntitled.thumb.png.8ddceb6363b8de3283f82181d3679b24.png

I likewise checked volume 9 page 8 and what you quoted wasn’t there either.

I suggest rather than copying and pasting from dubious websites, you actually check the references yourself to verify. That’s what I do.

Edited by Cherub786
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
20 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I have checked Umdat al-Qari as published by Dar al-Kutub Ilmiyah. What you quoted is not found in volume 2 page 282

I haven't verfied this reference, but I can give you a verified reference right now from Umdatul Qari volume 16 page 55, you will find the hadith:

كيف انتم اذا نزل عيسى ابن مريم فيكم و امامكم منكم

I will examine this hadith too & would take verified references from other books for your satisfaction.

And you expect some more verified ahadith to be quoted from this book when I will present shi'i narrative. At the moment, I am just analysing ahadith of 12 caliphs present in Sahih Muslim.

20 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cool said:

I haven't verfied this reference, but I can give you a verified reference right now from Umdatul Qari volume 16 page 55, you will find the hadith:

كيف انتم اذا نزل عيسى ابن مريم فيكم و امامكم منكم

Yes, this is a well known Hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari. But how is it relevant to the subject of 12 Caliphs?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
19 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Imamukum means “your Imam” it’s talking about a single Imam, not twelve.

:hahaha: Yes Imamukum means "your Imam" and the time line mentioned is the end of times i.e., nuzul e Esa ibn Maryam. Yes it is not the 12 Imams but the 12th Imam. I will analyse this in detail In-sha Allah with supporting references from your books.

On 9/9/2020 at 2:14 PM, Cool said:

The Prophet (s) said: “The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh.”

 

On 9/9/2020 at 5:53 PM, Cool said:

The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth),

 

On 9/9/2020 at 5:53 PM, Cool said:

The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
23 hours ago, Cool said:

 

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏

Some brothers believe in the continuation of Prophecy not in the form of Prophet but in the form of Prophet like figures. For them, I would like to quote a hadith from Umdatul Qari:

يا على انت منى و انا منك

And there are multiple references cited from Sunni books mentioning this:

يا على انت ولي كل مومن من بعدي

Is this this first wali from the 12 about whom it is said مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏?

So I am getting near to the first one & the 12th one from the 12 caliphs as I am looking deeper into Sunni books. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
13 hours ago, Cool said:

Some brothers believe in the continuation of Prophecy not in the form of Prophet but in the form of Prophet like figures. For them, I would like to quote a hadith from Umdatul Qari:

يا على انت منى و انا منك

And there are multiple references cited from Sunni books mentioning this:

يا على انت ولي كل مومن من بعدي

Is this this first wali from the 12 about whom it is said مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏?

So I am getting near to the first one & the 12th one from the 12 caliphs as I am looking deeper into Sunni books. 

I like to add some text:

Shia view: 12 Imams /caliphs / Ameer/ Leaders from the progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) like there were 12 leaders chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the children of Israel and the count is the same ie 12.

Proof:           Verses of quran for virtues of the Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) of the prophet s,a,w that no muslim denies . and hadith further elaborate it.

Name: The count and the names on mentioned in hadith from sunni and Shia sources. First of them is Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and the last ie 12th is Imam al Mahdi (عليه السلام ).

Sunni view:   12 caliphs are in history of islam and these  are selected  up by cherry picking

Proof:            The scholars are confused to derive its meaning. No evidence that confirms who are these 12 persons.

Name:            No one is certain about the names as no sunni Sahiheen book mentions their names.

 

The evidence we ask from their sunni sources if they intend to deny the names by prophet sayings for  12 imams from Ah albayt (عليه السلام) , then we need to get an alternative set of 12 caliphs duly confirmed by a single prophet hadith mentioning  ALL 12 of them. 

In the absence of a prophet hadith mention ALL 12 names (alternatively) No claim of sunni can be accepted except that the names of 12 caliphs / imams/ ameers are only those who are from the Ahl alabayt of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

I hope you get my understanding on the issue of names of 12 imams / caliphs/ ameers. wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
On 9/11/2020 at 11:38 PM, Cool said:

Lets move on to the third version for a moment:

The Arabic text of this is as under:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ 

Look at the word وَلِيَهُمُ, this all matter is about "wilayah". Interestingly the very next hadith to this in Sahih Muslim (1821c) has not mentioned مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً, there is only mention of this phrase:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا ‏

The next Arabic hadith text (1821 d) is like this:

 لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً

أَمْرُ has been replaced with الإِسْلاَمُ here. 

Then in 1821 e:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏

Then in 1821 f:

‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏

أَمْرُ has been replaced with الدِّينُ here.

:) With all the efforts of covering up, one can get to the truth. أَمْرُ is nothing else but the leadership of People and Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a leader of people through his "Waliyah". And the same has been officially given to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Ghadeer. 

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ 

I like to add about     رجلا from saying of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا حَاتِمٌ، عَنْ يَزِيدَ بْنِ أَبِي عُبَيْدٍ، عَنْ سَلَمَةَ، قَالَ كَانَ عَلِيٌّ قَدْ تَخَلَّفَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي خَيْبَرَ وَكَانَ بِهِ رَمَدٌ فَقَالَ أَنَا أَتَخَلَّفُ عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَخَرَجَ عَلِيٌّ فَلَحِقَ بِالنَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم، فَلَمَّا كَانَ مَسَاءُ اللَّيْلَةِ الَّتِي فَتَحَهَا اللَّهُ فِي صَبَاحِهَا، قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لأُعْطِيَنَّ الرَّايَةَ ـ أَوْ لَيَأْخُذَنَّ الرَّايَةَ ـ غَدًا رَجُلاً يُحِبُّهُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ ـ أَوْ قَالَ يُحِبُّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ـ يَفْتَحُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَإِذَا نَحْنُ بِعَلِيٍّ وَمَا نَرْجُوهُ، فَقَالُوا هَذَا عَلِيٌّ‏.‏ فَأَعْطَاهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَفَتَحَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ‏.‏

Narrated Salama:

`Ali happened to stay behind the Prophet (ﷺ) and (did not join him) during the battle of Khaibar for he was having eye trouble. Then he said, "How could I remain behind Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)?" So `Ali set out following the Prophet (ﷺ) , When it was the eve of the day in the morning of which Allah helped (the Muslims) to conquer it, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "I will give the flag (to a man), or tomorrow a man whom Allah and His Apostle love will take the flag," or said, "A man who loves Allah and His Apostle; and Allah will grant victory under his leadership." Suddenly came `Ali whom we did not expect. The people said, "This is `Ali." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) gave him the flag and Allah granted victory under his leadership.

Reference  : Sahih al-Bukhari 3702
In-book reference  : Book 62, Hadith 53
USC-MSA web (English) reference  : Vol. 5, Book 57, Hadith 52

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/62

 لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً

أَمْرُ has been replaced with الإِسْلاَمُ here. 

Then in 1821 e:

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏

Then in 1821 f:

‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً

أَمْرُ has been replaced with الدِّينُ here.

The explanation of word خَلِيفَةً from the verses of quran we get as given below:

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً

And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, “Indeed, I will make upon the earth a khalifa / caliph ” (2:30)

يَا دَاوُودُ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاكَ خَلِيفَةً فِي الْأَرْضِ فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ بِالْحَقِّ

 [We said], “O David, indeed We have made you a khalifa /caliph  upon the earth, so judge between the people in truth (38;26)

The word khalifa is exactly the same as that is used in verses of quran and that has been used in the hadith of 12 caliphs

Thus there is no room in the light of above verses and hadith for a people chosen caliph instead of those appointed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as informed by the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) through his sayings.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو كُرَيْبٍ، مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْعَلاَءِ حَدَّثَنَا عُمَرُ بْنُ عُبَيْدٍ الطَّنَافِسِيُّ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ يَكُونُ مِنْ بَعْدِي اثْنَا عَشَرَ أَمِيرًا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِشَيْءٍ لَمْ أَفْهَمْهُ فَسَأَلْتُ الَّذِي يَلِينِي فَقَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ صَحِيحٌ ‏.‏

Simak bin Harb narrated from Jabir bin Samurah who said " The Messenger of Allah(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said:

'There will be twelve Amir after me."' He said: "Then he said something that I did not understand. So I asked the one who was next to me, who said that he(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had said: 'All of them are from Quraish."'

Grade    : Sahih (Darussalam)                      

Reference           : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2223

In-book reference            : Book 33, Hadith 66

English translation            : Vol. 4, Book 7, Hadith 2223

 

@Cool

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
On 9/12/2020 at 11:36 PM, Cool said:

So I am getting near to the first one & the 12th one from the 12 caliphs as I am looking deeper into Sunni books. 

 

On 9/11/2020 at 10:34 PM, Cool said:

I will conclude this point in my next post In-sha Allah.

In the light of the evidences presented in this thread, how would you like to conclude the discussion, please?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 9/25/2020 at 9:11 PM, Muslim2010 said:

In the light of the evidences presented in this thread, how would you like to conclude the discussion, please?

I think I have made it clear in the very next comment:

On 9/12/2020 at 11:38 AM, Cool said:

With all the efforts of covering up, one can get to the truth. أَمْرُ is nothing else but the leadership of People and Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is a leader of people through his "Waliyah". And the same has been officially given to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in Ghadeer. 

According to the Sunni ahadith discussed on this thread, it is quite clear that:

Quote

Either Prophet has pointed to his Caliphate and said that "this caliphate will not end" or either he has nominated someone as caliph and pointed to him that "this caliphate will not end". 

In both scenarios, the caliphs becomes apparent, the first one is the Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and last one is Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) ajtf.

So we have two ends of the rope now. And the following hadith further enlightens the matter:

Quote

Muslim: al-Sahih 7/58:
Wathilah ibn al-Asqa` narrated: I heard the Holy Prophetsaying, “Allah has chosen the tribe of Kinanah amongst sons of Ishmael and chosen the tribe of Quraysh amongst the Kinanah and chosen the Hashimites amongst the Quraysh and chosen me among the Hashimites.

Just follow the chain, who are the bearers of the "minniyat" of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)?  And the matter becomes resolved. 

أَمْ يَحْسُدُونَ النَّاسَ عَلَى مَا آتَاهُمُ اللّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَقَدْ آتَيْنَآ آلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَآتَيْنَاهُم مُّلْكًا عَظِيمًا

4:54 Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.

Quote

According to this verse the descendants of Ibrahim, through Ismail, have been given the book and the wisdom and the authority to guide and lead mankind, because they are foremost in total submission to Allah. Mankind has been enjoined to follow and obey them, even if they do not hold any defacto power, which the descendants of Ismail had for a very brief period in the times of the Holy Prophet and Ali ibn abi Talib. If authority means defacto temporal power, then there is no room for dividing the people into believers and unbelievers in verse 55.

فَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ آمَنَ بِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ صَدَّ عَنْهُ ۚ وَكَفَىٰ بِجَهَنَّمَ سَعِيرًا {55}

[Shakir 4:55] So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
On 9/9/2020 at 7:52 PM, Guest Just a thought said:

And also they will be “triumphant“

Does it really say that it will be a time of triumph @Cool, if so, what would it mean from the Shia perspective?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 9/27/2020 at 8:48 AM, 313_Waiter said:

Does it really say that it will be a time of triumph @Cool, if so, what would it mean from the Shia perspective?

What we have seen in reports of sahih muslim is that various version of hadith present from one narrator i.e., Jabir bin Samarah. I am quoting parts of those ahadith:

Quote

1. This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. 

إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِي حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ فِيهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"

2. The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men

 يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً 

3. Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs

‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً

4. order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs

  ‏ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً "‏ ‏

5. This religion would continue to remain powerful and dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs.

 ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏

So we can get the clue that there is some engineering done with this hadith but the actual content i.e., continuation of caliphate in 12 caliphs has somehow remain preserved in it. 

If we look into the Quran, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has indeed sent Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) with a mission clearly mentioned here:

هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ

9:33 

So the task that this religion of Islam prevail over all religions was apparently not achieved in the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). That task perhaps, is directly related with the continuation of caliphate in the form of 12 Leaders. And we have ahadith in both Sunni & Shia books which clearly shows that this task will be completed in the time of 12th Caliph and his name (Mahdi) is also mentioned. 

That's why I have concluded from these ahadith that by إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ, Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has pointed to his Caliphate and said that "this caliphate will not end" or either he has nominated someone as caliph and pointed to him that "this caliphate will not end". 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
24 minutes ago, Cool said:

And we have ahadith in both Sunni & Shia books which clearly shows that this task will be completed in the time of 12th Caliph and his name (Mahdi) is also mentioned. 

Salaam, thank you for your intelligent response.
Sunnis don’t consider Mahdi to be the 12th Caliph, also is there a hadith saying these caliphs will make Islam “prevail over all religions”? It wasn’t quoted above.

 

Also to sunnis: you might say that Yazid (l.a) fits the title of Khilafa (leadership) better, but why would Allah make vile individuals, drunkards, alcoholics, killers of the Prophet’s family Caliphs?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
45 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

is there a hadith saying these caliphs will make Islam “prevail over all religions”?

Wa Alaikum-us-Salam wa Rehmatullahe wa Barakatuh,

"3. Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs"

"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً

This is only what I got in there. There is no mention of  لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ in Sunni hadith books. 

This task is related unanimously to Imam Mehdi ajtf. 

45 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:


Sunnis don’t consider Mahdi to be the 12th Caliph

That's why they are just wandering in the valley of assumptions or self imposed ignorance. They reject the first by saying that he was just a friend (to them, "mowla" means friend) and they don't accept the 12th as divinely appointed caliph. 

How can one open the knots (formed by mind) if he don't even grab at least one end of the rope (urwatul wuthqa) in his hand for which he was commanded to cling with! 

 

 

Edited by Cool
Typo
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

The verses with word of Imam (s) seems attributed to 12 Imams in the following manner:

Sr No.

Sura No.

Verse No.

Atributed  in number to

1

2

124

Imam Ali ibne Abi Talib AS

2

9

12

Imam Hassan bin Ali AS

3

11

17

Imam Hussain bin Ali AS

4

15

79

Imam Ali bin Hussain AS

5

17

71

Imam Muhamamd  bin Ali  AS

6

21

73

Imam Jafar bin Muhamamd  AS

7

25

74

Imam Musa bin Jafar AS

8

28

5

Imam Ali bin Musa AS

9

28

41

Imam Muhamamd bin Ali AS

10

32

24

Imam Ali bin Muhamamd  AS

11

36

12

Imam Hassan bin Ali  AS

12

46

12

Imam Muhamamd bin Hassan  AS (Al Mahdi)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

The total count of verses where word Imam (s) has been used is exactly 12.

The verse no. is exactly equal to 12 as mentioned above for 3 surah. The names of 3 Imams are Muhammad on the name of the Prophet Muhaamd saaw.

The above analysis confirms that there are 12 Imams and the verses seem resemblance in number to each of Imam in the above mentioned manner.

 وَلَقَدْ أَخَذَ اللّهُ مِيثَاقَ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَبَعَثْنَا مِنهُمُ اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ نَقِيبًا 

[5:12] And certainly Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains; (12)

Similarly for the nation of the prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ ۚ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُّبِينٍ

(36:12) 

Surely We give life to the dead, and We write down what they have sent before and their footprints, and We have recorded everything in Imam Mubeen. (12)

 

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا

1.    Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. (4:82)

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

2.     [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. (38:29)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ

3.    That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension.(2:176)

 

wasalam

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...