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In the Name of God بسم الله

I don't think Ashura was the most tragic event in history, do you?

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Let's face it, in history, if a group of people try to topple a government, that government is going to kill you, even in modern times.

Husayn tried to muster up support in Kufa to take over the weaker gov't of Yazid compared to Mu'awiyah and he failed.

I have read of incidents in history like this where the women and children of the group who tried to take over a government were killed.

That is really tragic but the women and children of Husayn were not killed. They were not enslaved either. They were not raped either.

I think Husayn was a brave and ambitious man who tried to replace a unjust government with a just one. That was a noble effort.

He got killed for that. That makes him a martyr. So why all the crying and wailing about it?

Instead Shias  should focus on what Husayn's goal was and that is to rid the world of injustice. They should emmulate him in that regard.

Instead you see a lot of Shias are quite unjust themselves to other human beings, yet they cry and mention Ashura at least 25% of the year.

It doesn't make much sense to me. I heard Ali Shariati shared this view, black shia vs red shia. Red is a lovely color.

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Your first four paragraphs are quite lame and pretty clear you have no knowledge of the historical incident of what lead to Imam Hussein going to Karbala, what happened and the aftermath.

Either a self sophisticated troll, or one of those “I rebel thus I exist.”

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23 hours ago, pantheistica said:

Let's face it, in history, if a group of people try to topple a government, that government is going to kill you, even in modern times.

Husayn tried to muster up support in Kufa to take over the weaker gov't of Yazid compared to Mu'awiyah and he failed.

I think you are misinformed on this. The choices for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) were quite clear even before he considered heading for Kufa. I briefly explained this in a post a few days ago:

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48 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

I wonder why this post was approved 

cuz this isn't a saudi or US run website where anything that doesn't fit an agenda is banned?

5 hours ago, pantheistica said:

Let's face it, in history, if a group of people try to topple a government, that government is going to kill you, even in modern times.

Husayn tried to muster up support in Kufa to take over the weaker gov't of Yazid compared to Mu'awiyah and he failed.

I have read of incidents in history like this where the women and children of the group who tried to take over a government were killed.

That is really tragic but the women and children of Husayn were not killed. They were not enslaved either. They were not raped either.

I think Husayn was a brave and ambitious man who tried to replace a unjust government with a just one. That was a noble effort.

He got killed for that. That makes him a martyr. So why all the crying and wailing about it?

Instead Shias  should focus on what Husayn's goal was and that is to rid the world of injustice. They should emmulate him in that regard.

Instead you see a lot of Shias are quite unjust themselves to other human beings, yet they cry and mention Ashura at least 25% of the year.

It doesn't make much sense to me. I heard Ali Shariati shared this view, black shia vs red shia. Red is a lovely color.

Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام)) is dear to many, more dear than one's parent.

Who would you cry longer for in death, your mom's sister or your mother?

Now we have a man who put his own family on the line in order to halt tyranny, and give someone like me love and a path to Allah.

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I would say Imam Hussain's martrydom was the 2nd most tragic event in history.

The most tragic event in history is the complete lack of knowledge and understanding (complete ignorance) of Imam's Great Sacrifice by the Sunni world due to Ummayya propaganda.

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23 hours ago, pantheistica said:

Let's face it, in history, if a group of people try to topple a government, that government is going to kill you, even in modern times.

Husayn tried to muster up support in Kufa to take over the weaker gov't of Yazid compared to Mu'awiyah and he failed.

I have read of incidents in history like this where the women and children of the group who tried to take over a government were killed.

That is really tragic but the women and children of Husayn were not killed. They were not enslaved either. They were not raped either.

I think Husayn was a brave and ambitious man who tried to replace a unjust government with a just one. That was a noble effort.

He got killed for that. That makes him a martyr. So why all the crying and wailing about it?

Instead Shias  should focus on what Husayn's goal was and that is to rid the world of injustice. They should emmulate him in that regard.

Instead you see a lot of Shias are quite unjust themselves to other human beings, yet they cry and mention Ashura at least 25% of the year.

It doesn't make much sense to me. I heard Ali Shariati shared this view, black shia vs red shia. Red is a lovely color.

https://youtu.be/85OiVRoNMjo

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While the occurrence of the martyrdom of Imam Hussain and his loyal family and companions (عليه السلام) truly breaks the heart, I think what really hurts and burns and stings is the way that he was martyred. Why do you have to sit on his chest, stab him 12 times and then behead him all because he “simply went against an oppressive regime?” It wasn’t just a difference of politics, it was animosity and hatred toward the family of the Holy Prophet (SAWW) that existed even when the Holy Prophet (SAWW) himself was alive. They couldn’t stand to know that a man who advocated for the Truth wouldn’t pledge allegiance to a tyrant like Yazid (La).

Edited by KnowledgeSeeker36
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Ashura is the most tragic event in History, Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام), Rahanat Rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), a Master of the Youth of Paradise, was killed in the most brutal way.

There is a Hadith narrated by Imam al Sadiq (عليه السلام), he said that Imam al Husayn's body had 1900 injuries.

And history narrates that Ubaydallah Ibn Ziyad (la) ordered for 10 horses to trample the holy body of Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام).

And after the battle they took the daughters of Rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) prisoner and had chains around their necks and feet.

This is why I hate the question, 'Why do you cry over Husayn? It happened a long time ago.'

Well why don't you ask Rasul Allah (عليه السلام) that question? Why don't ask the Jinn why did you cry over Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام)? Why don't you ask the sky why did you Rain blood when Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام) was killed.

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I have read of incidents in history like this where the women and children of the group who tried to take over a government were killed.

There is no comparison between kerbala and other incidents where people were killed. When someone is killed, you can ask 3 questions...

1. Who was killed?

2. Why was he killed? 

3. How was he killed? 

Kerbala is the only event in history in which these three questions have answers that reach a level that is absolutely unmatched in status by any other event. The best of all men in the eyes of Allah, was killed defending the most noble of all causes for the sake of Allah and was killed in the most cunning of all ways. No event in history can even resemble such an atrocity. 

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20 hours ago, pantheistica said:

Let's face it, in history, if a group of people try to topple a government, that government is going to kill you, even in modern times.

Husayn tried to muster up support in Kufa to take over the weaker gov't of Yazid compared to Mu'awiyah and he failed.

I have read of incidents in history like this where the women and children of the group who tried to take over a government were killed.

That is really tragic but the women and children of Husayn were not killed. They were not enslaved either. They were not raped either.

I think Husayn was a brave and ambitious man who tried to replace a unjust government with a just one. That was a noble effort.

He got killed for that. That makes him a martyr. So why all the crying and wailing about it?

Instead Shias  should focus on what Husayn's goal was and that is to rid the world of injustice. They should emmulate him in that regard.

Instead you see a lot of Shias are quite unjust themselves to other human beings, yet they cry and mention Ashura at least 25% of the year.

It doesn't make much sense to me. I heard Ali Shariati shared this view, black shia vs red shia. Red is a lovely color.

I agree with the title of this thread. The martyrdom of Imam Husain رضى الله عنه was a great tragedy and one of the darkest episodes in the history of this Ummah, but it was not the most tragic incident in all history. The Quran says that the Prophets عليهم السلام were unjustly murdered. I believe that the Prophets are the most superior creation of Allah, therefore, the smallest of the Prophets is greater than the greatest of the non-Prophets. The unjust murder of a Prophet is a greater tragedy than what happened at Karbala.

I am not convinced that Imam Husain bin Ali رضى الله عنهما departed for Kufah with the intention of starting an armed uprising against Damascus. I am open to the possibility of being wrong on this, but I would like to see multiple attestation in historical sources that are independent of each other to confirm the narrative that is generally held to be true.

I recall reading in Chawdah Sitaray by Mawlana Sayyid Najm ul-Hasan Kararwi that Imam Husain رضى الله عنه asked to be allowed to seek self-exile in Sindh when he was intercepted at Karbala. I will in sha Allah dig up this reference and display it for the benefit of the readers.

Interestingly the Quran says regarding the four sacred months among which is Muharram:

فَلَا تَظْلِمُوا۟ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ

So do not wrong yourselves during them (four sacred months) (9:36)

It's as though Allah is directly addressing the Shi'ah who practice rituals of self-harm during Muharram, committing Zulm against their own bodies

Some Catholics also practice rituals of self-harm as a means of kaffarah (expiation for sins). It is an interesting theory that the Shi'ah likewise practice rituals of self-harm as a means of atoning for the sins of their forebears of Kufah who were responsible for murdering Imam Husain and others of his immediate family رضى الله عنهم at Karbala

As for Ali Shariati, I have read his essay Red Shi'ism and it is quite evident the man was a radical leftist, using terminology and pushing ideas associated with revolutionary Marxism throughout that essay

Edited by Cherub786
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52 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

It is an interesting theory that the Shi'ah likewise practice rituals of self-harm as a means of atoning for the sins of their forebears of Kufah who were responsible for murdering Imam Husain and others of his immediate family رضى الله عنهم at Karbala

Ahhh what???

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