The "woke" Muslim

[Sumerian]

In my generation of Muslims, especially those who are active on social media, attend universities and college and pay attention politically, there is a "woke" wave, wherein Muslims will champion cultural and economic leftist ideals.

That's okay, anyone can believe what they want.

My main issue is when Islam is used as a "progressive" tool, and Muslims are lumped in with the other "oppressed classes and minorities".

You would see some hijabis march in feminist marches that advocate "women's liberation", attending the march on the basis of their Muslim identity.

This is just example among many. 

Like I said, I don't care what anyone believes, but do not act like Islam agrees or advocates the viewpoints you advocate for. You are free to believe what you want, but be honest about what your religion believes.

Do you guys see this as a problem?

Edited September 4, 2020 by Sumerian

[Cherub786]

3 hours ago, Sumerian said:

In my generation of Muslims, especially those who are active on social media, attend universities and college and pay attention politically, there is a "woke" wave, wherein Muslims will champion cultural and economic leftist ideals.

That's okay, anyone can believe what they want.

My main issue is when Islam is used as a "progressive" tool, and Muslims are lumped in with the other "oppressed classes and minorities".

You would see some hijabis march in feminist marches that advocate "women's liberation", attending the march on the basis of their Muslim identity.

This is just example among many. 

Like I said, I don't care what anyone believes, but do not act like Islam agrees or advocates the viewpoints you advocate for. You are free to believe what you want, but be honest about what your religion believes.

Do you guys see this as a problem?

Yes, my issue is when they bring religion into it. The leftists actually want Muslims to be visibly Muslim and wear their religion on their sleeve (so to speak) when participating in and advocating these leftist ideas, because its part of their narrative and agenda that Muslims are inherently on the side of the Left and there is no clash between Islam and the radical Left.

If they are participating in this leftist activity in their personal capacity, that's a different story, but if they are highlighting their "Muslimness" and trying to say Muslims are on board with and part of the Leftist coalition, this is a catastrophe for us.

I agree that as compared to the Far-Right, the Far-Left is more palpable to us Muslims in the West, because the Far-Left will never directly target us as Muslims unlike the Far-Right. Of course, centrist, liberal politics is superior in this regard as it pertains to our communal interests, but if the choice is between Far-Left and Far-Right, obviously the Far-Left is preferable.

But Muslim youth couldn't understand our mental compartmentalization of preferring the Far-Left purely for our political interest, while not embracing the social agenda of the Far-Left.

The issue is Muslim youth can't resist the temptation to actively participate in these bad aspects of society, especially when they are being so warmly welcomed with open arms. They are forsaking our earlier understood policy of keeping a certain level of detachment and separation from mainstream society and living in our own bubble so to speak. This is a catastrophe

Edited September 4, 2020 by Cherub786

[313_Waiter]

3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

because its part of their narrative and agenda that Muslims are inherently on the side of the Left and there is no clash between Islam and the radical Left.

I believe the Right has a lot more in common with Muslim beliefs, especially its stances on abortion, the lgbtiq community and feminist gender theory. Except the Right does not always appreciate immigrants, often supports Israel and does not want asylum seekers in western countries.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Ejaz

[Cherub786]

9 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

I believe the Right has a lot more in common with Muslim beliefs, especially its stances on abortion, the lgbtiq community and feminist gender theory. Except the Right does not always appreciate immigrants, often supports Israel and does not want asylum seekers in western countries.

If you're talking about the Far-Right, they don't even care about abortion, LGBTQ, feminism. They are solely focused on how Muslims are bad, Islam is bad, Muslims should be deported, etc.

Plus, these social issues don't direct affect us as a community. The West is corrupt morally to the core, there's no point trying to rescue it. Let is crumble, it's to our advantage

[BowTie]

I see that Muslims follow traditions rather than religion. Thus many get oppressed one way or another thus they join other groups to feel they need to get what they want. Also Muslim committees, clubs, groups and organizations live on a different planet where many Muslims feel disconnected from them. 

[notme]

 My ideology is more left than right. I'm also quite conservative on a personal level. I just always believe that humans should be treated as humans. 

I understand the complaint about using religion to justify political ideology, but the fact is, at least for me, a big part of why I believe in human rights is because of the example set by our Prophet and Imams, peace be upon them. 

Also, would it make you happier to see Muslims abandoning physical manifestations of their religion while advocating for social or political issues? 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by notme

[notme]

There are two feminisms: neoliberal feminism which advocates for women to be rich and powerful and take the place of men, and genuine feminism, which advocates for nobody to be oppressed or destitute. I find it hard to believe that any Muslim would be opposed to the latter. 

[Haji 2003]

 

1 hour ago, notme said:

There are two feminisms: neoliberal feminism which advocates for women to be rich and powerful and take the place of men, and genuine feminism,

What about the feminism which oppresses trans people?

[BleedKnee]

15 hours ago, Sumerian said:

In my generation of Muslims, especially those who are active on social media, attend universities and college and pay attention politically, there is a "woke" wave, wherein Muslims will champion cultural and economic leftist ideals.

That's okay, anyone can believe what they want.

My main issue is when Islam is used as a "progressive" tool, and Muslims are lumped in with the other "oppressed classes and minorities".

You would see some hijabis march in feminist marches that advocate "women's liberation", attending the march on the basis of their Muslim identity.

This is just example among many. 

Like I said, I don't care what anyone believes, but do not act like Islam agrees or advocates the viewpoints you advocate for. You are free to believe what you want, but be honest about what your religion believes.

Do you guys see this as a problem?

I think my problem is with fellow brothers that say Islam believes in women's rights in one second, then immediately chastise anyone who calls themselves a feminist right after. Feminism isn't some social trend, it's a political movement that is quite diverse in nature (as women tend to be), but with the general intention to alleviate the suffering of women at the hands of patriarchy. What Muslim in his right mind would be against this? 

Technically, we should all call ourselves feminists as well.

[notme]

5 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

What about the feminism which oppresses trans people?

I don't know nothin' 'bout that. 

I believe that's more of an individual thing. Me, personally, I figure live and let live. Trans people are still people and I'm not in the market for marriage so it's got no effect on me either way. 

[BleedKnee]

12 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Yes, my issue is when they bring religion into it. The leftists actually want Muslims to be visibly Muslim and wear their religion on their sleeve (so to speak) when participating in and advocating these leftist ideas, because its part of their narrative and agenda that Muslims are inherently on the side of the Left and there is no clash between Islam and the radical Left.

If they are participating in this leftist activity in their personal capacity, that's a different story, but if they are highlighting their "Muslimness" and trying to say Muslims are on board with and part of the Leftist coalition, this is a catastrophe for us.

I agree that as compared to the Far-Right, the Far-Left is more palpable to us Muslims in the West, because the Far-Left will never directly target us as Muslims unlike the Far-Right. Of course, centrist, liberal politics is superior in this regard as it pertains to our communal interests, but if the choice is between Far-Left and Far-Right, obviously the Far-Left is preferable.

But Muslim youth couldn't understand our mental compartmentalization of preferring the Far-Left purely for our political interest, while not embracing the social agenda of the Far-Left.

The issue is Muslim youth can't resist the temptation to actively participate in these bad aspects of society, especially when they are being so warmly welcomed with open arms. They are forsaking our earlier understood policy of keeping a certain level of detachment and separation from mainstream society and living in our own bubble so to speak. This is a catastrophe

I've got a few thoughts on this. 

One: I don't think Islam pushes anyone left or right. There are these general, universal values, but how we believe we could implement these values. Or how we perceive our political economy in contrast with religion will always vary considering a bunch of things, from our socio-economic background to our gender to the country we live in. As such, I don't think it's fair for either leftist Muslims or Muslims in the right to judge the other considering this. 

We definitely need to understand that there's not a problem with the fact that we have intellectual diversity even within the fold of Islam. 

Two: We shouldn't avoid politics entirely. I've seen us do this way too many times, usually because here in Canada, most Muslims are immigrants so they have this mentality of thinking their just guests rather than fellow citizens. But things are changing and for the better, we need to involved because this is our home. We want it to be better for both our own children and our neighbour's children. 

[Cherub786]

35 minutes ago, BleedKnee said:

I've got a few thoughts on this. 

One: I don't think Islam pushes anyone left or right. There are these general, universal values, but how we believe we could implement these values. Or how we perceive our political economy in contrast with religion will always vary considering a bunch of things, from our socio-economic background to our gender to the country we live in. As such, I don't think it's fair for either leftist Muslims or Muslims in the right to judge the other considering this. 

We definitely need to understand that there's not a problem with the fact that we have intellectual diversity even within the fold of Islam. 

I agree with this in principle. I wasn't giving my opinion from a purely Islamic perspective either, but analyzing the situation to produce my strategic view that Muslims should prefer the Left over the Right (domestically), and neo-con interventionism in foreign policy. The communal interests of the Muslims in the West takes precedence over all other domestic issues, whether social, economic, or political. Apparently, the Left is more favorable to our communal interests than the Far-Right, which is dead against us. It is political suicide for us to support the Far-Right (not the mainstream center right). Here in Canada, there are elements of the Far-Right present in the otherwise mainstream Conservative Party.

Quote

Two: We shouldn't avoid politics entirely. I've seen us do this way too many times, usually because here in Canada, most Muslims are immigrants so they have this mentality of thinking their just guests rather than fellow citizens. But things are changing and for the better, we need to involved because this is our home. We want it to be better for both our own children and our neighbour's children. 

I'm a third generation born Canadian citizen, I never went overseas to visit my ancestral land until I was in my mid-20s. But I have never cast a ballot even once in my lifetime, not even in a municipal election. For me, it is a matter of principle, because I don't believe in voting. I believe in being apolitical, or political queitism. Politicians we vote for are non-Muslim or working with an un-Islamic system where they legislate and execute things that are clearly against our Shari'ah. By voting for them, we become partially responsible for the un-Islamic and immoral activity they may potentially enact if they make it to public office. It is also my principle to never work for the government in any capacity for this reason, especially law enforcement.

This principle of ours is going to make us avoid active participation in politics like it or not. It's something we have to sacrifice for our morals and principles. In this respect, we have a lot to learn from certain non-Muslim religious groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses. Yes, this may have a negative consequence because at present we have a fairly respectable position in society due to the mainstream parties wanting our vote, especially where it counts in Muslim heavy urban areas of Toronto and vicinity.

This doesn't mean that if our rights or interests are being infringed (this occasionally happens at the local level, when zoning licenses for mosques are denied, for example) we cannot react politically to attain those rights and interests. But that kind of political reaction doesn't necessitate heavy involvement in mainstream, electoral politics and participation.

Finally, I want to say that my opinion is that we should never feel too comfortable and "at home" here in the Western hemisphere. We belong to a transnational Ummah before we are citizens of these modern nation states. Our loyalty to our Religion always takes precedence to any loyalty or attachment to our country and government. I believe it is essential we impart this concept into our youth so it can likewise be passed down to future generations. Without a strong Muslim identity, our future generations are doomed, they will become thoroughly culturally assimilated or worse, outright apostates.

[Silas]

This is a very complicated issue, but I would add some insights ...

When we speak of the political left, and those who are "woke", certain assumptions can be made.

1. The left is materialist and, in some cases, determinist. This world is an accident, and everything we do going forward is predictable by way of science. There is no free will, and no transcendent reality.

2. Many on the left are atheists, and hostile to religion. They tolerate Islam only for the moment, just as they once tolerated Christianity. And in the case of China's government, I think we can see what happens to Buddhists (Falun Gong) and Muslims who resist the mandates of the central state. 

3. Leftists tend to be cynical pragmatists and relativists. There are no transcendental principles, and no universal truths. There is no natural law even. Everything becomes a matter of expediency, and deals can be struck with their enemies in order to achieve the socialist program. All this nonsense we see regarding identity politics, LGBT, race-baiting, etc. are just tools to employ towards ultimate objectives. Convince everyone, including Muslims of every stripe, that they are oppressed victims, and they can pull people into their radical worldview.

I just don't see how any of this can be reconciled with Islam

I have known several people who would qualify as "left-wing" in my life, and their lives are disasters. They all exist in very dark places even if I write this. They are resentful, lost, and broken. They have replaced the Eternal Word, and the ultimate reality, with a human construct based on hatred and resentment. 

[Reza]

“Left” and “right” are Eurocentric terms, and each encompass broad ideologies, of which Islam may have occasional overlaps of agreement, disagreement, or neutrality with them. 

Your characterizations of the “left” and “right” will be disputed by some self-declared members of that same group, and they’ll say you’re not describing it properly.

[hasanhh]

8 hours ago, BowTie said:

I see that Muslims follow traditions rather than religion.

There are also traditions in every community that conflict with lsIam, lMH0.

[Cherub786]

2 hours ago, Silas said:

This is a very complicated issue, but I would add some insights ...

When we speak of the political left, and those who are "woke", certain assumptions can be made.

1. The left is materialist and, in some cases, determinist. This world is an accident, and everything we do going forward is predictable by way of science. There is no free will, and no transcendent reality.

2. Many on the left are atheists, and hostile to religion. They tolerate Islam only for the moment, just as they once tolerated Christianity. And in the case of China's government, I think we can see what happens to Buddhists (Falun Gong) and Muslims who resist the mandates of the central state. 

3. Leftists tend to be cynical pragmatists and relativists. There are no transcendental principles, and no universal truths. There is no natural law even. Everything becomes a matter of expediency, and deals can be struck with their enemies in order to achieve the socialist program. All this nonsense we see regarding identity politics, LGBT, race-baiting, etc. are just tools to employ towards ultimate objectives. Convince everyone, including Muslims of every stripe, that they are oppressed victims, and they can pull people into their radical worldview.

I just don't see how any of this can be reconciled with Islam

I have known several people who would qualify as "left-wing" in my life, and their lives are disasters. They all exist in very dark places even if I write this. They are resentful, lost, and broken. They have replaced the Eternal Word, and the ultimate reality, with a human construct based on hatred and resentment. 

BTW who is the man in your profile picture? Looks like some 19th century European philosopher or 20th century fascist dictator

I completely agree with your take on the leftists and their true motives. But I think there's no harm in temporarily or strategically favoring them for the time being for our own interests (I'm only speaking of the leftists in the West).

[Sumerian]

6 hours ago, notme said:

 My ideology is more left than right. I'm also quite conservative on a personal level. I just always believe that humans should be treated as humans. 

I understand the complaint about using religion to justify political ideology, but the fact is, at least for me, a big part of why I believe in human rights is because of the example set by our Prophet and Imams, peace be upon them. 

Also, would it make you happier to see Muslims abandoning physical manifestations of their religion while advocating for social or political issues? 

 

Advocating justice is very different from advocating progressive values and viewpoints. Pretty much every organised feminist march in this day and age holds views contrary to Islam.

[Sumerian]

4 hours ago, BleedKnee said:

I think my problem is with fellow brothers that say Islam believes in women's rights in one second, then immediately chastise anyone who calls themselves a feminist right after. Feminism isn't some social trend, it's a political movement that is quite diverse in nature (as women tend to be), but with the general intention to alleviate the suffering of women at the hands of patriarchy. What Muslim in his right mind would be against this? 

Technically, we should all call ourselves feminists as well.

Feminism is a movement that advocates the political and social equality of women. You can call yourself a feminist, but that definition goes right against everything Islam teaches.

[notme]

4 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Advocating justice is very different from advocating progressive values and viewpoints. Pretty much every organised feminist march in this day and age holds views contrary to Islam.

Progress as a society is a good thing. 

Can't disagree on the bit about "feminist" marches though. They're neoliberals - they take the same oppressive garbage and rebrand it for the benefit of their own group. They're not better than those who they oppose. 

[Cherub786]

2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Feminism is a movement that advocates the political and social equality of women. You can call yourself a feminist, but that definition goes right against everything Islam teaches.

I agree, even the most benign form of feminism (first wave) is contrary to the orthodox conception of Islam

[Sumerian]

People tend to forget that their version of Islam isn't some sort of revolutionary social justice movement of the same type that arose in the 20th Century, with all those liberation movements and what not.

Islamic society at its core is a classist society. Freemen and slaves aren't the same. Muslims and non-Muslims aren't the same. Those born from pure birth aren't the same as those born out of wedlock. There is differences between Hashimis (sayeds) and non-Hashimis. There is even a difference between those from noble lineage and those who aren't on a social level. Rich and those who aren't rich exist, there is no "economic equality". 

All of this goes right against progressive values. If one wants to be a progressive that is their choice, but don't advocate it on the basis of Islam. 

[Sumerian]

2 minutes ago, notme said:

Progress as a society is a good thing. 

Can't disagree on the bit about "feminist" marches though. They're neoliberals - they take the same oppressive garbage and rebrand it for the benefit of their own group. They're not better than those who they oppose. 

Neoliberal or communist, both versions go against Islamic teachings. 

[notme]

2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

All of this goes right against progressive values.

What is progress? 

 

1 minute ago, Sumerian said:

Neoliberal or communist, both versions go against Islamic teachings. 

The world is more nuanced than these two plus far right ideology. But yes, extremism of any type is not compatible with Islamic values. 

[Sumerian]

1 minute ago, notme said:

What is progress? 

I'm not calling it "progress", I'm not taking the literal definition of the word.

The progressives describe their values as progressive, and I'm using their own terms.

[notme]

Just now, Sumerian said:

I'm not calling it "progress", I'm not taking the literal definition of the word.

The progressives describe their values as progressive, and I'm using their own terms.

Ok then. What is "progressive"? 

[BowTie]

3 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

I agree, even the most benign form of feminism (first wave) is contrary to the orthodox conception of Islam

 

7 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Feminism is a movement that advocates the political and social equality of women. You can call yourself a feminist, but that definition goes right against everything Islam teaches.

And the Meninist Islam that exists today is the correct Islamic path?

Or dont you see why this mentality of yours is what wrecks the faith in many?

1 minute ago, Sumerian said:

People tend to forget that their version of Islam isn't some sort of revolutionary social justice movement of the same type that arose in the 20th Century, with all those liberation movements and what not.

Islamic society at its core is a classist society. Freemen and slaves aren't the same. Muslims and non-Muslims aren't the same. Those born from pure birth aren't the same as those born out of wedlock. There is differences between Hashimis (sayeds) and non-Hashimis. There is even a difference between those from noble lineage and those who aren't on a social level. Rich and those who aren't rich exist, there is no "economic equality". 

All of this goes right against progressive values. If one wants to be a progressive that is their choice, but don't advocate it on the basis of Islam. 

And who ever said the Islam you see is the correct one? All what you stated seems actually like a misconception of mixing your culture with Islam.

1 minute ago, Sumerian said:

Neoliberal or communist, both versions go against Islamic teachings. 

Thats true.

But also because many current “Islamic scholars” and local Masjid Imams and local organizations are going against Islamic teachings under the name of Islamic teachings, many people find refuge in communist, left wing groups etc..

[Sumerian]

Just now, notme said:

Ok then. What is "progressive"? 

My understanding is it is someone who wants to reform the traditionalist Judeo-Christian capitalist system that existed in Western society. 

[BowTie]

17 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Advocating justice is very different from advocating progressive values and viewpoints. Pretty much every organised feminist march in this day and age holds views contrary to Islam.

That is like saying ISIS represents Islam

[Sumerian]

1 minute ago, BowTie said:

 

And the Meninist Islam that exists today is the correct Islamic path?

Or dont you see why this mentality of yours is what wrecks the faith in many?

And who ever said the Islam you see is the correct one? All what you stated seems actually like a misconception of mixing your culture with Islam.

Thats true.

But also because many current “Islamic scholars” and local Masjid Imams and local organizations are going against Islamic teachings under the name of Islamic teachings, many people find refuge in communist, left wing groups etc..

Never heard of a meninist before. But this is the form of Islam that is advocated by several Islamic schools since the beginning of Islamic scholarship. This is not "culture", this is how Islam has been for centuries based on the Muslims understanding of Qur'an and hadith.

Now if you argue for a new version of Islam, that's up to you. Most people on this forum are followers of orthodox teachings.

[Cherub786]

12 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

People tend to forget that their version of Islam isn't some sort of revolutionary social justice movement of the same type that arose in the 20th Century, with all those liberation movements and what not.

100% agree

Quote

Islamic society at its core is a classist society. Freemen and slaves aren't the same. Muslims and non-Muslims aren't the same.

I wouldn't say at its core. Muslim society has historically been class-based, yes, but that doesn't necessarily represent the ideals of Islam the religion. Islam may not have abolished slavery in totality, but it doesn't view it as a positive thing either. I believe Islam does want a more egalitarian society where it is an individual's level of piety that is more important in terms of determining rank of superiority and inferiority, than other factors like lineage, class, race, etc.

Quote

Those born from pure birth aren't the same as those born out of wedlock. There is differences between Hashimis (sayeds) and non-Hashimis. There is even a difference between those from noble lineage and those who aren't on a social level.

Well, on a legal level, everyone is suppose to be equal under the Shari'ah, lineage and class doesn't mean preferential treatment in the sight of Islamic law.

On the social level, it depends what you mean. Of course, Islam, or at least my orthodox Sunni Islam, teaches a certain level of reverence for the Saadaat and for elderly people, and likewise for classes of people based on their acquired merits, like the Ulama and the righteous.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Cherub786

[BowTie]

Just now, Sumerian said:

Never heard of a meninist before. But this is the form of Islam that is advocated by several Islamic schools since the beginning of Islamic scholarship. This is not "culture", this is how Islam has been for centuries based on the Muslims understanding of Qur'an and hadith.

Now if you argue for a new version of Islam, that's up to you. Most people on this forum are followers of orthodox teachings.

the fact you dont know that is the fact you are out of touch with reality.

and the fact you see Islam as an authority rather because you are used to what you hear is the fact you follow norms and traditions even if they’re wrong.

But thats alright keep it up, and then wonder why fellow Muslims are leaving their faith 

[Sumerian]

1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

100% agree

I wouldn't say at its core. Muslim society has historically been class-based, yes, but that doesn't necessarily represent the ideals of Islam the religion. Islam may not have abolished slavery in totality, but it doesn't view it as a positive thing either. I believe Islam does want a more egalitarian society where it is an individual's level of piety that is more important in terms of determining rank of superiority and inferiority, than other facts like lineage, class, race, etc.

Well, on a legal level, everyone is suppose to be equal under the Shari'ah, lineage and class doesn't mean preferential treatment in the sight of Islamic law.

On the social level, it depends what you mean. Of course, Islam, or at least my orthodox Sunni Islam, teaches a certain level of reverence for the Saadaat and for elderly people, and likewise for classes of people based on their acquired merits, like the Ulama and the righteous.

There is no proof that Islam ever viewed slavery as a negative thing, nor that it sought to abolish it. At best it sort to reform it. 

Piety does matter more than class, but class maintains a position among the Shari'ah, and that's why it will remain in Muslim society. When we are judged by our Creator, money and class will not matter, but as we are in the dunya, we have to accept they are what they are.

On a legal level - atleast according to Shi'a - Hashimis are not the same as those who aren't. The poor among the Hashimis is entitled to khums money, and they are not allowed to accept zakat money. 

Another example of lineage having legal implications is the son of fornication, as he is not allowed to lead prayer, be followed as a marja, become a judge, or a witness, and so on. 

[Sumerian]

6 minutes ago, BowTie said:

the fact you dont know that is the fact you are out of touch with reality.

and the fact you see Islam as an authority rather because you are used to what you hear is the fact you follow norms and traditions even if they’re wrong.

But thats alright keep it up, and then wonder why fellow Muslims are leaving their faith 

Lol, thank you for your wise words 

These teachings are based on the Qur'an and the hadiths, and so if you want to follow a modernist approach to Islam, you will need to advocate for a lot of "change" in how rulings are derived.

[hasanhh]

21 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Feminism is a movement that advocates the political and social equality of women. You can call yourself a feminist, but that definition goes right against everything Islam teaches.

Two part answer.

l 'know' notme disagrees that every feminist stance is "against everything lsIam teaches." Half my "disagree" is for the same reason.

The other half is in your first sentence. lt is a positive that women vote -as most of them are more conservative than the men, but they cannot be 'social equals'. Decent women do not go to bars, night clubs and a few other places as various personalities of men go to. No different than men don't go to women's clubs.[Yeah, l know, an over simplified argument.]

[BowTie]

9 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Lol, thank you for your wise words 

These teachings are based on the Qur'an and the hadiths, and so if you want to follow a modernist approach to Islam, you will need to advocate for a lot of "change" in how rulings are derived.

Your Islam that is based on the culture and tradition finds everything as “change” and “modernity”. The fact that you think what you think you know is correct shows well how far you are from actual Islam.

Stop your childish arguments and look around you mate. I highly advise you to read hadiths and Quran and look around you. Or else you’ll be hurting yourself in the future. Its exactly people like you who end up leaving Islam.