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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ashura celebrations in Morocco

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It was actually a Moroccan who told me that Ashura is celebrated in Morocco with fireworks and other festivities. I don't know if there are other Sunni communities which do the same.

I did a quick search and found the following:

Quote

In Morocco, Ashura is a day when neighbors and families come together to share traditional food, and where children receive toys, money, and indulge in all kinds of cheerful activities. It is also a day of many celebratory carnivals and festivals across the country.

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/08/316793/ashura-in-morocco-a-celebration-with-unique-cultural-traditions/

 

 

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It makes more sense to celebrate Karbala and Ashura than than to mourn.  Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) didn’t lose, he was victorious.  Islam was saved on that day.  It should be an Eid.  
 

it makes sense to cry on Ashura, but not for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but for ourselves and how we have not lived up Imam Hussein’s (عليه السلام) teachings.  
 

It is all a matter of perspective.  You see.

Edited by eThErEaL
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6 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

It was actually a Moroccan who told me that Ashura is celebrated in Morocco with fireworks and other festivities. I don't know if there are other Sunni communities which do the same.

Are the celebrations because of the Islamic new year, or is there a more insidious origin story? I would be inclined to believe the former if it was the first of the month, but the tenth? That’s suspicious.

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43 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

It makes more sense to celebrate Karbala and Ashura than than to mourn.  Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) didn’t lose, he was victorious.  Islam was saved on that day.  It should be an Eid.  
 

it makes sense to cry on Ashura, but not for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but for ourselves and how we have not lived up Imam Hussein’s (عليه السلام) teachings.  
 

It is all a matter of perspective.  You see.

I disagree 

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

It makes more sense to celebrate Karbala and Ashura than than to mourn.  Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) didn’t lose, he was victorious.  Islam was saved on that day.  It should be an Eid.  
 

it makes sense to cry on Ashura, but not for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but for ourselves and how we have not lived up Imam Hussein’s (عليه السلام) teachings.  
 

It is all a matter of perspective.  You see.

No, I don't see. This is probably the worst attempt I've seen of someone trying to portray themself as some sort of philosopher. This sounds like one of those Confucius Says memes.

Using your logic, the Prophet (saww) should have named the year his uncle and wife were martyred (Sayed al-Shuhada2 Hamza and Lady Khadija) as 'The Year of Celebration' instead of what he actually named it 'The Year of Sadness' (aam al-huzn).

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

It makes more sense to celebrate Karbala and Ashura than than to mourn.  Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) didn’t lose, he was victorious.  Islam was saved on that day.  It should be an Eid.  
 

it makes sense to cry on Ashura, but not for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) but for ourselves and how we have not lived up Imam Hussein’s (عليه السلام) teachings.  
 

It is all a matter of perspective.  You see.

But a painful sacrifice that should not have happened, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) cried about Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام),

Umm Salama (عليه السلام) narrates that she could hear the Naheeb/نحيب (Loud crying) from outside the house.

“The sky wept for forty days on (the martyrdom of) Imam Husayn (as)”.

We read in Tahdib al-Kamal by Jamaluddin al-Mizi, Volume 6 page 433:

وقال أبو الأسود النضر بن عبد الجبار عن بن لهيعة عن أبي قبيل لما قتل الحسين بن علي كسفت الشمس كسفة بدت الكواكب نصف النهار

Abu Qabeel said: ‘When Husayn bin Ali was killed, the sun was eclipsed (so long) so that the stars appeared in the middle of day’

Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlavi has narrated the lamenting and wailing of Jinn on page number 96 of his book titled “Sirrul Shahdatain”. He has also quoted the verses of the elegy, which was recited by the Jinn while weeping over Imam Husayn (عليه السلام). Ummul Momineen Um Salma (رضي الله عنه) has also narrated as recorded by Imam Abi Bakar al-Haythami:

عن أم سلمة قالت‏:‏ سمعت الجن تنوح على الحسين بن علي‏.‏ رواه الطبراني ورجاله رجال الصحيح‏.‏

”I heard the jinns mourning for Husayn ibn Ali’.
Tabarani has recorded it and all its narrators are narrators of Sahih’
Majma al-Zawaid, Volume 9 page 199 Tradition 15179

We further read:

وعن ميمونة قالت‏:‏ سمعت الجن تنوح على الحسين بن علي ‏، رواه الطبراني ورجاله رجال الصحيح‏

‘Maymunah (رضي الله عنه) said: ‘I heard the jinns mourning for Husayn ibn Ali’.
Tabarani has recorded it and all its narrators are narrators of Sahih’
Majma al-Zawaid, Volume 9 page 199 Tradition 15180

Abu Naeem al-Asbahani records in Marifat al-Sahaba, Volume 5 page 333 Tradition 1686:

عن حبيب بن أبي ثابت ، قال : « سمعت الجن ، تنوح على الحسين

Habib bin Abi Thabit said: ‘I heard the jinn mourning over al-Hussain’

Then Tradition 1687:

عن أبي جباب الكلبي ، قال : حدثني الجصاصون قالوا : « كنا إذا خرجنا بالليل إلى الجبانة عند مقتل الحسين ، سمعنا الجن ينوحون عليه

Abi Habab al-Kalbi said: ‘Some grave diggers said: ‘Whenever we went out side at night to the cemetery during (the days) of the al-Husayn (عليه السلام) murder, we heard the jinn mourning over him’

We also read in Tradition 1688:

عن مزيدة بن جابر الحضرمي ، عن أمه ، قالت : سمعت الجن ، تنوح على الحسين

Mazidah bin Jabir al-Hadhrami narrated from his mother that she said: ‘I heard the jinn mourning over al-Husayn’
Marifat al-Sahaba, Volume 5 page 333

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/azadari-mourning-for-imam-hussain/crying-and-wailing.html

If the jinn cried over the Imam (عليه السلام) after his death, imagine the state of Rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) after his death.

Edited by Ansur Shiat Ali
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2 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

a silly perspective at best, unfortunately. If that was the case then the Prophet صلَّ الله عليه واله should’ve told us to bring out the drums and be happy that there were Shuhada during his battles. He would’ve celebrated the martyrdom of Hamza عليه السلام.

But he didn’t.

I’d rather follow the ways of Muhammad صلَّ الله عليه واله that some people with different perspectives.

@Jaabir
That is different.  

Crying is natural, I don’t think anyone would disagree.  But to mourn in commemoration due to loss is what we are discussing.  As far mourning in commemoration is concerned I believe it is FAR better to celebrate than to mourn.  
 

 

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Mourning is something we don't do as often as celebrating. Turning it in to a celebration would decrease its value and worth, especially over time, similar to desensitization. But because mourning and sadness and crying are less employed emotions and reserved for rarer events, that stimulation/response is reset. It's worked for 1400+ years, why try to reinvent it now?

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Islam as understood and practiced in the Maghrib is different than our mainstream, Eastern approach and practice of Islam. We Hanafi Sunnis have essentially taken our understanding of Islam from the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم who settled in Kufah, Iraq which never had the influence of Umayyads upon it unlike the Maghrib and Syria.

The Maliki school, reading the Quran in the Warsh transmission, the influence of secular French culture, the extensive mixing with black Africans are some of the main factors which has made the Islam as practiced in the Maghrib very different from the rest of the Sunni Muslim world. Even their style of dress, the hoods, half sleeve jalabiyas, and going bareheaded, are customs that are alien to us, especially to us Hanafis.

The way and reason why Moroccans celebrate Ashura is definitely a disturbing thing. I know there are some Sunnis who celebrate the 1st of Muharram for civic reasons, as they consider it Islam's version of the New Year, but it is an innovation to the rest of us.

Edited by Cherub786
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Their "Ashura" has nothing to do with the events of Karbala at all. When I lived there I was surprised this was a normal thing. I was later informed this day (the 10th of Muharram) for Malikis was a day in which several religious events from different prophets, in different times, took place, and were worth celebrating. It's like a special day of "good fortune".

Not sure if this is true but I was told this could very well be a fabrication to "hide" the real significance of the 10th of Muharram in Islam. After all, the Maliki school had some closeness to the Shias in Maghrib.

Anyway, it's nothing bizarre. Moroccans have no idea about all of this. The meaning of this day is completely different, it has nothing to do with Karbala.

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I think we should respectfully celebrate this event.  Because in the hereafter the angels and the people in paradise won’t be mourning this event.  Can you imagine if this event is mourned for eternity?  clearly there must be an end to mourning for this event and a point where people celebrate it!  Saying, “yes, what appeared sad, is nothing but beautiful”.  

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9 hours ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

But a painful sacrifice that should not have happened, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) cried about Imam al Husayn (عليه السلام)

What happened was nothing but beautiful. 

Quote

 

Quote

Umm Salama (عليه السلام) narrates that she could hear the Naheeb/نحيب (Loud crying) from outside the house.

yes.  Mourning is natural and normal.  But as a “commemoration” (Literally means to actively come together and remember) a displeasurable event year after year and to mourn because of that ... doesn’t sound so Normal to me!!!!  To ritualize it..... doesn’t sound Normal!!  Celebration however, sounds normal!  To look at the past and to see it all in a positive light and to see how it was ultimately a victory and to be genuinely grateful and happy about it.....  Now that is normal, good and healthy.

Quote

“The sky wept for forty days on (the martyrdom of) Imam Husayn (as)”.

right.  Mourning is natural even though this is poetry.

 

Quote

We read in Tahdib al-Kamal by Jamaluddin al-Mizi, Volume 6 page 433:

وقال أبو الأسود النضر بن عبد الجبار عن بن لهيعة عن أبي قبيل لما قتل الحسين بن علي كسفت الشمس كسفة بدت الكواكب نصف النهار

Abu Qabeel said: ‘When Husayn bin Ali was killed, the sun was eclipsed (so long) so that the stars appeared in the middle of day’

Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlavi has narrated the lamenting and wailing of Jinn on page number 96 of his book titled “Sirrul Shahdatain”. He has also quoted the verses of the elegy, which was recited by the Jinn while weeping over Imam Husayn (عليه السلام). Ummul Momineen Um Salma (رضي الله عنه) has also narrated as recorded by Imam Abi Bakar al-Haythami:

عن أم سلمة قالت‏:‏ سمعت الجن تنوح على الحسين بن علي‏.‏ رواه الطبراني ورجاله رجال الصحيح‏.‏

”I heard the jinns mourning for Husayn ibn Ali’.
Tabarani has recorded it and all its narrators are narrators of Sahih’
Majma al-Zawaid, Volume 9 page 199 Tradition 15179

We further read:

وعن ميمونة قالت‏:‏ سمعت الجن تنوح على الحسين بن علي ‏، رواه الطبراني ورجاله رجال الصحيح‏

‘Maymunah (رضي الله عنه) said: ‘I heard the jinns mourning for Husayn ibn Ali’.
Tabarani has recorded it and all its narrators are narrators of Sahih’
Majma al-Zawaid, Volume 9 page 199 Tradition 15180

Abu Naeem al-Asbahani records in Marifat al-Sahaba, Volume 5 page 333 Tradition 1686:

عن حبيب بن أبي ثابت ، قال : « سمعت الجن ، تنوح على الحسين

Habib bin Abi Thabit said: ‘I heard the jinn mourning over al-Hussain’

Then Tradition 1687:

عن أبي جباب الكلبي ، قال : حدثني الجصاصون قالوا : « كنا إذا خرجنا بالليل إلى الجبانة عند مقتل الحسين ، سمعنا الجن ينوحون عليه

Abi Habab al-Kalbi said: ‘Some grave diggers said: ‘Whenever we went out side at night to the cemetery during (the days) of the al-Husayn (عليه السلام) murder, we heard the jinn mourning over him’

We also read in Tradition 1688:

عن مزيدة بن جابر الحضرمي ، عن أمه ، قالت : سمعت الجن ، تنوح على الحسين

Mazidah bin Jabir al-Hadhrami narrated from his mother that she said: ‘I heard the jinn mourning over al-Husayn’
Marifat al-Sahaba, Volume 5 page 333

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/azadari-mourning-for-imam-hussain/crying-and-wailing.html

If the jinn cried over the Imam (عليه السلام) after his death, imagine the state of Rasul Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) after his death.

Right.  Mourning is natural.  No one should say otherwise.

Actively coming together To remember and mourn a displeasurable event in a ritualistic manner is not normal and not healthy.  

this is what is not normal and silly:

when people are made to feel guilty for not being able to cry when hearing a “masaib” of Imam Hussein (عليه السلام).  When people have to think of something sad in their own life just to produce tears for the sake of the congregation.  When some people have to fake tears and cries.  Not normal! not natural!
 

 

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@eThErEaL Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Janabe Zehra (sa), Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) mourned 60 years before the incident of Karbala. Previous prophets (عليهم اسلام) mourned Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) and all the subsequent Aimma (عليهم اسلام) mourned the event that took place on Ashura. They understand better whether to mourn and celebrate and they choose to mourn.

Ibne Ziyad, Yazid, Shimr, Ibne Sa'ad and their followers decorated their cities and houses and celebrated this day. 

Now you know which side you are following. 

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25 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

@eThErEaL Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Janabe Zehra (sa), Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) mourned 60 years before the incident of Karbala. Previous prophets (عليهم اسلام) mourned Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) and all the subsequent Aimma (عليهم اسلام) mourned the event that took place on Ashura. They understand better whether to mourn and celebrate and they choose to mourn.

Ibne Ziyad, Yazid, Shimr, Ibne Sa'ad and their followers decorated their cities and houses and celebrated this day. 

Now you know which side you are following. 

So, up to when will everyone keep mourning?  Is this going to go on forever even in the hereafter in paradise?  Are people in paradise also going to mourn this event perpetually? 
Will people enter paradise mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام). Or is it that the people who deserve paradise will be perpetually And forever crying for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)?   Are they going to enjoy the fruits of paradise or will they be in tears?  Which one is it?

Is someone’s status dependent on the the extent To which they mourn for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)?  
 

Kindly explain....

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14 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

But to mourn in commemoration due to loss is what we are discussing.  As far mourning in commemoration is concerned I believe it is FAR better to celebrate than to mourn.  

Celebrate @eThErEaL , the grandson of Prophet was slaughtered in Karbala. The ones who slaughtered him were the reciters of kalima.

Celebrate brother, the Ahlul Bayt were taken as prisoners & the Ahlul Haram were deprived from taking hijab.

Celebrate, the little daughter of Hussain (عليه السلام) was slapped repeatedly throughout the journey from Karbala to Domescus.

 I will continue to mourn & continue to cry:

يَا لَيتَنِي كُنتُ مَعَهُمْ فَأَفُوزَ فَوْزًا عَظِيمًا

4:73

You may choose to celebrate and be among those on whom neither the heaven would cry nor the earth:

فَمَا بَكَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ السَّمَاء وَالْأَرْضُ وَمَا كَانُوا مُنظَرِينَ

44:29

Edited by Cool
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It makes more sense to celebrate Karbala and Ashura than than to mourn

 

(I am leaving among you the Two Weighty Things: the Book of Allah and my `Itrat (Progeny), my Ahlul Bayt. So long as you (simultaneously) uphold both of them, you will never be misled after me; so, do not go ahead of them else you should perish, and do not lag behind them else you should perish; do not teach them, for they are more knowledgeable than you.1)

-----

(Imam Ridha’ ((عليه السلام).) said:

قال الرضا (ع):

كان أبي (ع) إذا دخل شهر المُحرَّم لا يُرى ضاحِكاً وكانت الكابة تغلب عليه حتَّى تمضي عشرة أيَّام فإذا كان يوم العاشر كان ذلك يوم مصيبَته وحُزنه وبُكائه

With the advent of the month of Muharram, my father Imam Kadhim ((عليه السلام).) would never be seen laughing; gloom and sadness would overcome him for (the first) ten days of the month; and when the tenth day of the month would dawn, it would be a day of tragedy, grief and weeping for him.)

Amaali Saduq, pg. 111

---------

https://www.al-islam.org/shiah-are-real-ahlul-sunnah-muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi/hadith-al-thaqalayn-according-shias

https://www.al-islam.org/forty-hadith-on-azadari/ahadith-traditions#2-aashura-%E2%80%91-day-grief

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They celebrate this in Egypt mostly and in Northern Africa because they have a hadith that the prophet says its mustahab to fast on this day because it was the day Prophet Moses and his followers were rescued from the Pharaoh.

But in many countries Sunnis dont celebrate 10th of Muharram over this Hadith.

Probably northern Africa because they feel it happened on their land or something

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It's depressing to see most countries celebrate Ashura rather than commemorate it and the events that happened.

It sickens me to my stomach to see people celebrate it. There is absolutely nothing to be happy about on that day. That was the day where the grandson of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his companions were slaughtered.

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15 hours ago, Guest Guest Guest said:

Why is it the case in Maghreb?

What's the exact reasoning behind it?

It's because of being under rulership of Umayyads (May Allah's severest chastisement befall on them) & Abbasids (May Allah's severest chastisement befall on them) and their propaganda against Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Umayyad-dynasty-Islamic-history

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On 9/2/2020 at 9:46 AM, Cool said:

Celebrate @eThErEaL , the grandson of Prophet was slaughtered in Karbala. The ones who slaughtered him were the reciters of kalima.

Celebrate brother, the Ahlul Bayt were taken as prisoners & the Ahlul Haram were deprived from taking hijab.

Celebrate, the little daughter of Hussain (عليه السلام) was slapped repeatedly throughout the journey from Karbala to Domescus.

 I will continue to mourn & continue to cry:

يَا لَيتَنِي كُنتُ مَعَهُمْ فَأَفُوزَ فَوْزًا عَظِيمًا

4:73

You may choose to celebrate and be among those on whom neither the heaven would cry nor the earth:

فَمَا بَكَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ السَّمَاء وَالْأَرْضُ وَمَا كَانُوا مُنظَرِينَ

44:29

So, up to when will everyone keep mourning?  Is this going to go on forever even in the hereafter in paradise?  Are people in paradise also going to mourn this event perpetually? 
Will people enter paradise mourning for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام). Or is it that the people who deserve paradise will be perpetually And forever crying for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)?   Are they going to enjoy the fruits of paradise or will they be in tears?  Which one is it?

Is someone’s status dependent on the the extent To which they mourn for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)?  
 

Kindly explain....

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Mourning for the martyrdom of Imam al Hussain, reflection on the battle of Karbala, and what he taught us what rebellion is, isn't something harmful for the soul. Outwardly, the pain is evident, but your soul is reflecting upon something that elevates it. No pleasure in life can give you such a thing. How is that something that shall stop eventually? Reflection on the divine attributes, as well as sacrifice for Allah, is a spiritual pleasure by itself, regardless of the immense pain it may cause.

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4 hours ago, Guest Demon King said:

It's because of being under rulership of Umayyads (May Allah's severest chastisement befall on them) & Abbasids (May Allah's severest chastisement befall on them) and their propaganda against Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Umayyad-dynasty-Islamic-history

And after that they had Shia rulers. The Morrocans had the Zaydi Idrisid dynasty and in Egypt there were the Fatimids. 

However the people in these lands tend to be anti-Shia:

gsi-es-3

https://www.pewforum.org/2012/08/09/the-worlds-muslims-unity-and-diversity-executive-summary/

It may be that the anti-Shia sentiment was created by the rulers that followed the Shia periods. 

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1 hour ago, Muhammed Ali said:

And after that they had Shia rulers. The Morrocans had the Zaydi Idrisid dynasty and in Egypt there were the Fatimids. 

However the people in these lands tend to be anti-Shia:

gsi-es-3

https://www.pewforum.org/2012/08/09/the-worlds-muslims-unity-and-diversity-executive-summary/

It may be that the anti-Shia sentiment was created by the rulers that followed the Shia periods. 

This reflects the fact that people in Egypt, North Africa have very little interaction with Shi'ah, and they only hear about it from the media, usually in a very negative light. People in Iraq and Lebanon live among Shi'ah, they see with their own eyes their mosques, praying, fasting in Ramadan, etc.

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7 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

So, up to when will everyone keep mourning?

Till the day of justice. 

 

7 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Is this going to go on forever even in the hereafter in paradise?  Are people in paradise also going to mourn this event perpetually? 

I don't know about that. But if someone recite the story of Karbala or I was able to remember the "masa'ib" of Imam e Mazloom, I would certainly cry there too. Or until God remove that grief from my heart:

وَقَالُوا الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَذْهَبَ عَنَّا الْحَزَنَ إِنَّ رَبَّنَا لَغَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ

35:34 

 

7 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

And forever crying for Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)?   Are they going to enjoy the fruits of paradise or will they be in tears?  Which one is it?

 

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1 hour ago, Cool said:

Till the day of justice. 
 

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to attempt an answer my post. 

So, the Day of Justice will make everything people grieved for to be something one should NOT grieve for as God’s justice would have been exacted 100%.  It is all a matter of time for you then.  Until that happens we should all grieve.  Right?

this doesn’t make sense:  

there is no reason whatsoever not to celebrate God’s Justice today!  After all, are you not certain God is Just? 

 So, what is it about “the Day of Justice”, that you cannot celebrate right now?    

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I don't know about that. But if someone recite the story of Karbala or I was able to remember the "masa'ib" of Imam e Mazloom, I would certainly cry there too. Or until God remove that grief from my heart:

وَقَالُوا الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَذْهَبَ عَنَّا الْحَزَنَ إِنَّ رَبَّنَا لَغَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ

35:34 

So, you are saying that it is possible even after the Day of Justice to still grieve?  It is possible that even for eternity, people will mourn this event?  Imagine how much context would have to be given just to narrate such an event!  
So, fast forward a trillion years from now, people will be saying: “ a trillion years ago, in a solar system within the galaxy called the Milky Way, there was a tiny planet called earth, .....”

Edited by eThErEaL
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