US government vs Khums Lawsuit

[pakistanyar]

Have anyone been following the recent case against 2 american Shias for violating sanctions via collection of Khums? It seems they are charged with sanctions violations for collecting Khums money on behalf of Ayatollah Khaminie. It seems highly suspect that the FBI would go after 2 individuals for a few thousand dollars of aid to Yemen. 

There are voices that suspect a bigger plot in play. They suspect an incoming law against Khums collection. The implications of such a law would make any building, masjid or school property which was funded by local Khums money to be owned by Iran and thus open to acquisition by the U.S government. It seems like a very clever scheme. 

Are there any Lawyer with knowledge of American Law on this forum?

Are the Shias going to make a case against this or will losing such a case eliminate 100s of Shia centers across the U.S? 

 

Here is the link to the conviction: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-us-citizens-one-pakistani-national-charged-moving-us-currency-iran

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by pakistanyar

[Cherub786]

The Shi'ah community in America should prudently cut off all connections with the Iranian regime, maintain their own independent institutions that have nothing to do with Iran, thus saving themselves from a possible and likely quandary of having ties to a terrorist and terrorism-sponsoring regime (according to US law).

I personally have never donated even a cent toward any of the big names in "Islamic charity". When I give charity it is always personally distributed to the needy, or to small, local organizations that I am certain have no foreign activity. A whole lot of innocent Muslims here in the West got into major trouble for donating money to charities that funnel that money to terrorist groups in the Middle East, like Hamas, Hizbullah, etc. Be especially careful with charities that collect money in the name of Palestine, Palestinian rights, etc., they could be a front for Hamas or Islamic Jihad. Here in Canada there is a very shady and checkered character (Zafar Bangash) who is running an organization called Crescent International, which has strong ties to Iranian regime and probably some of its terrorist proxies like Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc.

[The Green Knight]

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

Are there any Lawyer with knowledge of American Law on this forum?

Yes.

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

Are the Shias going to make a case against this or will losing such a case eliminate 100s of Shia centers across the U.S?

Expect the worst. You don't accommodate the LGTB and "gay muslims", you refuse to show your western compatible face, take no measures changing yourselves in any way. then you jointly fund enemies of Israel, on American soil, what else do you expect?

[pakistanyar]

@Cherub786 I don't think you understand. This is analogous to making a fedral law saying Zakat is illegal and anyone found paying Zakat will be arrested. Shias don't send money to Iran. The money is spent inside the U.S promoting things like Shia Masjids, events ect.

Edited September 1, 2020 by pakistanyar

[Akbar673]

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

Have anyone been following the recent case against 2 american Shias for violating sanctions via collection of Khums?

I don't think anyone gave them their khums money so it would be given to the IRGC. I most certainly would NOT want my money going to a military division.

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

It seems highly suspect that the FBI would go after 2 individuals for a few thousand dollars of aid to Yemen. 

I've attached a copy of the charges that were brought against them and the logic behind the arrests.

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

They suspect an incoming law against Khums collection.

Not possible because...

1. The US Constitution clearly defines the Freedom to Worship in any manner. Therefore, it would not hold up in court, even if those charges were brought up due to the charges being unconstitutional. 

2. The U.S. allows the sending of money to either family in need, or on Islamic religious basis to be transferred into Iran. There is a lot of paperwork that needs to be filled out and there is a checking process but I know of several people in our Indo/Pak community here in Chicago that have been sending their khums money unimpeded for years. Even under the Trump regime.

I ask you to read Item 19. on Page 6 of the PDF that I attached, which clearly states "Charitable donations of funds to Iran also require a specific license from OFAC (The Office of Foreign Assets Control)". As you can see there is a legal waiver for people sending "charitable donations" or khums/zakat to Iran, but to be used for helping a cause for the needy. Even Trump still allowed this waiver. As such, khums can be collected and sent to Iran.

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

The implications of such a law would make any building, masjid or school property which was funded by local Khums money to be owned by Iran and thus open to acquisition by the U.S government.

Again, not possible due to the Constitution's bill of rights. Any houses of worship are also tax exempt so there are no taxes due on them. The U.S. govt. can not seize property of that nature. They can however seize the personal belongings of the accused if they are found guilty, in a criminal trial by a Jury, to have caused a financial harm to someone (in this case the people who gave them their khums money for charitable reasons, not for funding the IRGC).

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

Are there any Lawyer with knowledge of American Law on this forum?

I am. Been a lawyer since 1998.

1 hour ago, pakistanyar said:

Are the Shias going to make a case against this or will losing such a case eliminate 100s of Shia centers across the U.S? 

Why should we make a case when these guys lied to Shi'a about where the money is going to.

Here is a copy of the charges...

signed-20mj163_zaidi_affidavit_in_support_0_0.pdf

Edited September 1, 2020 by Akbar673

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, pakistanyar said:

law saying Zakat is illegal and anyone found paying Zakat will be arrested

What if one registers khums as a charity? 

[Cherub786]

2 minutes ago, pakistanyar said:

@Cherub786 I don't think you understand. This is analogous to making a fedral law saying Zakat is illegal and anyone found paying Zakat will be arrested. Shias don't send money to Iran. The money is spent inside the U.S promoting things like Shia Masjids, events ect.

Pardon me because I'm not a Shi'i and I don't know how your community operates in the West. But you did mention Iran and collecting Khums in the name of Khamanei. This seems to be the root of your dilemma. Federal law doesn't make any religious tithe illegal, whether Zakat, Khums, etc. The issue is giving money to foreign elements that may have ties to terrorism. So why is it necessary to send Khums to Khamanei? Aren't there institutions or individuals that are law-abiding American citizens you could send to domestically in America? I likewise tell my Sunni friends that they should not send their Zakat overseas or to any foreign country, spend their Zakat 100% locally.

 

[Akbar673]

10 minutes ago, starlight said:

What if one registers khums as a charity? 

Most of the time the shipment of khums to an Ayatullah is an already registered religious, charitable donation. Shi'a from the US have been sending khums money to Iran since the days of Ayatullah Khomeini.

Yes, it requires filling out paperwork but that can be filled out well in advance. Especially since the US govt. knows that every year there is a sizable amount of money sent to either Ayat. Khamnei or to Ayat. Sistani. As I mentioned above its been going on since 1980 every year and the US govt. has not stopped it.

[Cherub786]

22 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Expect the worst. You don't accommodate the LGTB and "gay muslims"

Is that a bad thing according to you?

Quote

you refuse to show your western compatible face

What do you mean by this? Please elaborate

[Cherub786]

16 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Here is a copy of the charges...

I read over the charge sheet, it's quite interesting for multiple reasons. It mentions this about Iran's involvement in Yemen:

"Since approximately 2015, two factions have been fighting for control of Yemen: the current government of Yemen and the Houthis, a Shia militant group. According to a 2019 U.S. Department of State report on terrorism, the Iranian regime continued to foment violence, both directly and through proxies, in several countries, including Yemen. Iran provided weapons and support to the Houthis, who share Iran’s Shia ideology, and the IRGC, a branch of Iran’s armed forces, continued to maintain a presence in areas of Yemen controlled by the Houthis."

This individual, Muzzammil Zaidi, is obviously a very shady character, very likely involved in terrorist activities and strong connections with the IRGC, as the FBI investigation has clearly uncovered, especially his trip to Syria, and how he lied about not travelling further than one hour from Damascus. He met with senior Iranian officials and representatives of Khamanei.

These are the type of people that duping innocent Shi'ah here in the West, collecting Khums from them and transferring the money to Iranian government and their organs like IRGC, Quds Force. We Muslims need to be extra careful about these type of individuals that have foreign connections and collecting charity from the local community here.

[Ashvazdanghe]

5 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

"Since approximately 2015, two factions have been fighting for control of Yemen: the current government of Yemen and the Houthis, a Shia militant group. According to a 2019 U.S. Department of State report on terrorism, the Ira

Its another baseless propaganda against Iran by America & KSa that only simpleton people like you will accept it .

[Cherub786]

The FBI affidavit which Akbar673 posted was truly an eye opener for me. I highly recommend SC change some of its policies in light of this, to save themselves from possible trouble with the law. Without being too specific, there are elements on SC that are actively promoting Iranian regime and proxies, and quite possibly recruiting on behalf of them or collecting money for them. Be extra vigilant and I recommend enacting new policies to prevent that from happening in the future.

P.S. Tone down some of the political rhetoric, it's better to keep SC a purely religious forum, not a mouthpiece or platform for Iranian regime propaganda. It's just my humble recommendation, it's for SC's own good

Edited September 1, 2020 by Cherub786

[pakistanyar]

@Cherub786 is obviously and FBI agent, never seen a "Canadian Sunni" so passionate about Shias in the West. Yeah, I'm not going to take FBIs words as truth. Get real. No need for you to libel our people. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by pakistanyar

[The Green Knight]

7 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Is that a bad thing according to you?

Not at all. Rather it is great to resist uncle Satan.

7 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

What do you mean by this? Please elaborate

It means my dear momineen siblings over there are making the super evil power in the world sweat by little things like just the amount of charity they give which mitigates the misery the west is spreading. I am proud and envious of their bold defiance. The force of al Mahdi (عليه السلام) and all the good left on this earth. The people of everlasting blissful afterlife.

[Haji 2003]

8 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

I highly recommend SC change some of its policies in light of this, to save themselves from possible trouble with the law. Without being too specific, there are elements on SC that are actively promoting Iranian regime and proxies, and quite possibly recruiting on behalf of them or collecting money for them.

To be honest over nearly the past 20 years on various occasions I have had a more positive reaction to my pro-IRI/anti-imperialist posts in the reader comments of British national newspapers, than on this site.

[Haji 2003]

 

[Cherub786]

10 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

To be honest over nearly the past 20 years on various occasions I have had a more positive reaction to my pro-IRI/anti-imperialist posts in the reader comments of British national newspapers, than on this site.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, the political atmosphere in Britain and by extension Europe is quite different than in North America. The far-left, socialist element has never been big here in North America. Our most radical leftists like Bernie Sanders are considered mainstream even centrist in Europe. But Sanders is not mainstream here, he lost big time the last two primaries for the presidential candidacy nomination.

Unlike in Britain with your Jeremy Corbyn who has similar "anti-imperialist" views and somehow became leader of the Labor Party. The problem with both the far-right and the far-left is they are inherently anti-Semitic and often descend into demagoguery. Moderate, centrist, liberal or neoliberal politics has a proven track record and is most favorable to communities like us who are religious, racial minorities and relatively new to this part of the world.

[Haji 2003]

13 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Unlike in Britain with your Jeremy Corbyn who has similar "anti-imperialist" views and somehow became leader of the Labor Party.

 

[iCenozoic]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:38 AM, Akbar673 said:

Most of the time the shipment of khums to an Ayatullah is an already registered religious, charitable donation. Shi'a from the US have been sending khums money to Iran since the days of Ayatullah Khomeini.

Yes, it requires filling out paperwork but that can be filled out well in advance. Especially since the US govt. knows that every year there is a sizable amount of money sent to either Ayat. Khamnei or to Ayat. Sistani. As I mentioned above its been going on since 1980 every year and the US govt. has not stopped it.

I didn't know this, this is interesting. I wonder what his economic wealth is worth. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:25 AM, Akbar673 said:

Why should we make a case when these guys lied to Shi'a about where the money is going to.

Could you provide the proof of them lying as well as the source of the proof?

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 9/1/2020 at 3:28 PM, Haji 2003 said:

To be honest over nearly the past 20 years on various occasions I have had a more positive reaction to my pro-IRI/anti-imperialist posts in the reader comments of British national newspapers, than on this site.

That does not surprise me at all, before I joined this forum I had a much greater idea about the shia unity, I thought Hussein(عليه السلام) would always unite us to fight any invading oppressor, now I know most people are petty and that most people do not identify themselves as muslims first and foremost but by their nations, traditions, etc. 

 

At least thats how many people are on this forum from my own observations, usually internet forums attracts introverted people who in person would not speak their mind because they are shy or because they care more about having a nice mood instead of saying what they think.

In person, outside of this forum, I discuss politics and religion every chance I get, since I believe its better to speak of important things instead of mundane things and I find that most muslims are positive towards fighting the enemies of God and that their nationalities and other identities do not overpower their sense of Islamic duty, their muslim identity.

[Cherub786]

2 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

That does not surprise me at all, before I joined this forum I had a much greater idea about the shia unity, I thought Hussein(عليه السلام) would always unite us to fight any invading oppressor, now I know most people are petty and that most people do not identify themselves as muslims first and foremost but by their nations, traditions, etc. 

At least thats how many people are on this forum from my own observations, usually internet forums attracts introverted people who in person would not speak their mind because they are shy or because they care more about having a nice mood instead of saying what they think.

In person, outside of this forum, I discuss politics and religion every chance I get, since I believe its better to speak of important things instead of mundane things and I find that most muslims are positive towards fighting the enemies of God and that their nationalities and other identities do not overpower their sense of Islamic duty, their muslim identity.

The issue with "Islamists" is they attempt to emotionally blackmail the rest of us Muslims with such rhetoric. Their argument presumes that the foreign power (America) is the equivalent of Satan, or Pharaoh, or Yazid, and those who are resisting it from among the Muslims are following in the footsteps of the like of Imam Husain رضى الله عنه

Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Failed states like Iran arrogantly assume they must be the good guy, and that they represent Islam, thus, anyone who is critical of them must necessarily be following the devil. Just like you are claiming it is an "Islamic duty" to fight the enemies of God, but the question is, who will define who the enemies of God are today? What if Iran itself is an enemy of God? What if God favors America and Israel for this very reason?

As a Shi'i you should particularly appreciate the fact that Muslims and the Islamic cause should never be identified with the various Muslim states and regimes. Those states and regimes certainly attempt to paint a picture that portrays them as the brave underdog resisting the forces of Western imperialism, but the truth is, our Muslim states and regimes are the worst, tyrannical and oppressive forces on the face of the Earth. After all, Yazid himself was not a foreigner, an imperialist colonizer, he was in charge of a Muslim regime. He was an example of the internal enemy. So today we have many internal enemies who claim they are resisting our supposed and alleged external enemy. But our alleged external enemy (America) is actually our friend and sincere well wisher, as I demonstrated on the thread America is Our Deliverance

[Soldiers and Saffron]

22 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

 

You have to understand that I really do not care at all about anything you have to say in any given situation whatsoever.

And I have found that the few times I made the mistake of actually reading one of your posts, I have only felt regret and remorse at the end for the time I wasted reading it. In fact, I have not found a single post of yours to be giving in any way shape or form and if I would list your sayings and opinions on a scale of usefulness, I would not be able to since I cannot find a category suiting to the level of your input.

The only thing you are right about in your post is that there are many internal enemies within Islam and I consider you and people with your thoughts among those internal enemies. I do not say that because you are a sunni muslim, I know many honorable sunni muslims and as a matter of fact I am among those who rather see unity against the enemies of God regardless of madhab (or even if they are ahlul kitab), but I say that because I deem you so far out there when it comes to your world view and perception of things as well as how you put forward your arguments and then deem yourself the victor of any argument, or say things such as "am I right or am I right?" which basically means you are not actually seeking a discussion, just to throw your very strange opinions out into the air.

I hope your pride and arrogance does not prevent your from Gods mercy and guidance, but if it does then I hope that the Islamic republic of Iran will always be a source of frustration for you and a wound which will never heal and whenever you see or hear about the IR, I hope it will be like someone put salt in that wound.

I dont intend on engaging in a discord or any type of discussion with you, I truly deem it to be a absolute and utter waste of time and I recommend all other brothers and sister to not waste their time either as it is better to speak only when the person your speaking to is willing to listen and you are not. Given how much time you have to be this active on the forum, I can only assume you are going thru things in your personal life so may God help you and guide you and give you enough time left in dunya to correct all the things you have said by saying haqq instead.

[Cherub786]

10 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

I deem you so far out there when it comes to your world view and perception of things

I could say the same about you. After all, my views are, on a global level, quite mainstream, moderate, liberal and centrist. Presently, the United States is viewed favorable by 60% in the world, according to Gallup. How is that "far out there"? On the other hand, Iran's geopolitical agenda and its ideology, which it has attempted to export through its proxies and propaganda machine like Press TV, is generally not accepted by the international community.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

I could say the same about you. After all, my views are, on a global level, quite mainstream, moderate, liberal and centrist. Presently, the United States is viewed favorable by 60% in the world, according to Gallup. How is that "far out there"? On the other hand, Iran's geopolitical agenda and its ideology, which it has attempted to export through its proxies and propaganda machine like Press TV, is generally not accepted by the international community.

As I said, I do not intend to engage in discord or any type of discussion with you.

[Cherub786]

3 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

As I said, I do not intend to engage in discord or any type of discussion with you.

As you wish, but I still reserve the right to respond to you for the benefit of other readers, and to clarify my position

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Just now, Cherub786 said:

As you wish, but I still reserve the right to respond to you for the benefit of other readers, and to clarify my position

"which basically means you are not actually seeking a discussion, just to throw your very strange opinions out into the air."

[Cherub786]

4 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

"which basically means you are not actually seeking a discussion, just to throw your very strange opinions out into the air."

That is your false assumption. I definitely intend to engage in discussions, nor have I ever implied that all my views are written in stone and cannot be challenged, or that I am not disposed to reevaluating them if they are demonstrated to be irrational or illogical.

Neither would any reasonable person characterize my opinions as "very strange". They are mainstream, liberal, moderate, centrist views, associated with the political establishment of the United States in the realm of geopolitics.

In the realm of religion, they are more or less the mainstream Sunni creed, which is the majority creed among Muslims. "Very strange" is a false characterization.

Nor does an opinion being "very strange" necessarily affect the validity of that opinion.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Cherub786