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Guest Stupendous
12 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Stupy - All shias including me condemn what Asif Raza Alvi said in Islamabad.

If every action has an equal and opposite reaction then know that cursing was started by Muawiya - I am amazed you don't know that...not really amazed..

So start the condemnation from Muawiya. Agreed?

Mr shimmy so you should,unless you are a troublemaker like them.

Wrong, Muawiya ra NEVER started cursing, it’s a KNOWN FACT in ahlu sunnah so stop acting like as if you are amazed.

If Muawiya ra cursed then you are right but he never did so no condemnation neede at all.

Anyway shimmy this was regarding Abu Bakr ra , my reply is to that too but you had to throw in Muawiya ra as a red herring.

great mind at work shimmy bhai.

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1. They don't like the anti-Marwan etc. explicit lanats OR 2. They've finally figured out the alleged indirect references to the first three What happens when they figure out the Qur'an

A Shia shopkeeper, Abbas Zamin gunned down today in Kohat.  

This is an on-going issue. Shia book store owners have been arrested before for keeping Ziarat-e-Ashura books. May Allah protect them all. 

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25 minutes ago, Guest Stupendous said:

Wrong, Muawiya ra NEVER started cursing, it’s a KNOWN FACT in ahlu sunnah so stop acting like as if you are amazed.

Really? :dry:

Sahih Muslim:

Narrated Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas: Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa’d, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of ‘Ali)?”Sa’d replied: "Don’t you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) ‘Ali? So I will never curse ‘Ali."

Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of ‘Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

On insulting ‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib and cursing him during the Umayah period starting in Muawiyah’s reign, it is reported that:

"‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib (رضي الله عنه) was cursed on the pulpits (manabir) of the east and west...", during the time of Muawiyah.

Sunni reference: Mu’jam al-Buldan, al-Hamawi, v5, p38

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That it was in the days of Bani Umayyah, more than seventy thousand minbar (in mosques) upon which they cursed ‘Ali Ibn Abi-Talib, in some of what Muawiyah made a Sunnah for them."

Sunni references:

- Rabeea’ al-Abrar, al-Zamakhshari
- al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti

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2 hours ago, Guest Stupendous said:

Mr shimmy so you should,unless you are a troublemaker like them.

Wrong, Muawiya ra NEVER started cursing, it’s a KNOWN FACT in ahlu sunnah so stop acting like as if you are amazed.

If Muawiya ra cursed then you are right but he never did so no condemnation neede at all.

Anyway shimmy this was regarding Abu Bakr ra , my reply is to that too but you had to throw in Muawiya ra as a red herring.

great mind at work shimmy bhai.

Mr Shimmy - I love it.

You mentioned Muawiya, not me. Hopefully you will read the narrations above and the post I made just for you.

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Guest Stupendous
On 9/15/2020 at 8:39 AM, ShiaMan14 said:

Mr Shimmy - I love it.

You mentioned Muawiya, not me. Hopefully you will read the narrations above and the post I made just for you.

I am glad you like it, I could do a lot worse but I won’t stoop to your level of shia sunnah if curse/abuse.

Read them and answered accordingly to the supposed assumptions.

Even the one above I don’t think they can understand what they post.......is it just a shia thing where something that’s written is READ differently??

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3 hours ago, starlight said:

Really? :dry:

Sahih Muslim:

Narrated Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas: Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa’d, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of ‘Ali)?”Sa’d replied: "Don’t you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) ‘Ali? So I will never curse ‘Ali."

Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of ‘Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

On insulting ‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib and cursing him during the Umayah period starting in Muawiyah’s reign, it is reported that:

"‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib (رضي الله عنه) was cursed on the pulpits (manabir) of the east and west...", during the time of Muawiyah.

Sunni reference: Mu’jam al-Buldan, al-Hamawi, v5, p38

-------------------------------------------------------------------

That it was in the days of Bani Umayyah, more than seventy thousand minbar (in mosques) upon which they cursed ‘Ali Ibn Abi-Talib, in some of what Muawiyah made a Sunnah for them."

Sunni references:

- Rabeea’ al-Abrar, al-Zamakhshari
- al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti

Unfortunately, some are not fond of facts. 

BTW, I am not a big fan of holding back on this issue. If it wasn't for the fact that I know for sure it would put our brothers and sisters in Pakistan in danger, I would tell the whole story, line for line about the true nature of the 'Sahaba' like Muawiya. There is alot to tell, but I am asking my brothers and sisters to have Sabr, for now and talk about the merits of Imams of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) rather than these issues. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

If it wasn't for the fact that I know for sure it would put our brothers and sisters in Pakistan in danger, I would tell the whole story, line for line about the true nature of the 'Sahaba' like Muawiya.

Salam,

Being a Pakistani, I must appreciate your love & care for your Pakistani brothers. 

For us, it will be an honor to die for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). What an honor it would be if one got killed just because he loves the Ahlul Bayt and hate their enemies!!!

Indeed, We are for Allah and to Him shall we return. 

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1 hour ago, Cool said:

For us, it will be an honor to die for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). What an honor it would be if one got killed just because he loves the Ahlul Bayt and hate their enemies!!!

Indeed, We are for Allah and to Him shall we return. 

That is every shia's dream. Fortunate are those who have attained martyrdom for being lover of Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام). 

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Why is this happening right now?

Maybe there is a bigger picture, could it be due to the relationship between IK and saud? What does saud think of IK?

Its sad to see muslims fighting in Pakistan while in India the muslims are oppressed and attacked, not for being shia or sunni, but for simply believing in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Prophet(عليه السلام).

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4 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Why is this happening right now?

Maybe there is a bigger picture, could it be due to the relationship between IK and saud? What does saud think of IK?

Its sad to see muslims fighting in Pakistan while in India the muslims are oppressed and attacked, not for being shia or sunni, but for simply believing in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Prophet(عليه السلام).

This is totally a foreign backed ploy. Punishment for not backing the Arab-Israel deal.

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36 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

This is totally a foreign backed ploy. Punishment for not backing the Arab-Israel deal.

I respectfully disagree. The Azmat e Sahabah rally was organized in direct response to the blasphemous statements of certain Zakirs in the days leading up to and during Muharram.

There is no foreign hand in this rally. It is true, as Indian defense analysit Major Gaurav Arya pointed out, that the Pakistani military establishment itself gave the green light for this rally, without their approval it would have been a flop. Both Deobandis and Barelawis, who are usually not fond of each other, were brought together in a formidable display of Sunni unity against blasphemy of the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم

The Pakistani military establishment is not sectarian, but it does realize that Sunnis are more important than Shi’ah, and it is willing to sacrifice the support of Shi’ah for the sake of the overwhelming Sunni majority. The loyalty of many Shi’ah to Pakistan is sometimes questionable given the fact that they have a foreign agenda dictated to them by Iran. This is especially true for mainstream Pakistani Shi’i Ulama like Jawad Naqvi, MWM, Amin Shahidi, and so forth. Also, India clearly sympathises with the Shi’ah over us Sunnis, this is another alarm bell going off for the Pakistani military establishment.

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40 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

I respectfully disagree. The Azmat e Sahabah rally was organized in direct response to the blasphemous statements of certain Zakirs in the days leading up to and during Muharram.

There is no foreign hand in this rally. It is true, as Indian defense analysit Major Gaurav Arya pointed out, that the Pakistani military establishment itself gave the green light for this rally, without their approval it would have been a flop. Both Deobandis and Barelawis, who are usually not fond of each other, were brought together in a formidable display of Sunni unity against blasphemy of the Sahabah رضى الله عنهم

The Pakistani military establishment is not sectarian, but it does realize that Sunnis are more important than Shi’ah, and it is willing to sacrifice the support of Shi’ah for the sake of the overwhelming Sunni majority. The loyalty of many Shi’ah to Pakistan is sometimes questionable given the fact that they have a foreign agenda dictated to them by Iran. This is especially true for mainstream Pakistani Shi’i Ulama like Jawad Naqvi, MWM, Amin Shahidi, and so forth. Also, India clearly sympathises with the Shi’ah over us Sunnis, this is another alarm bell going off for the Pakistani military establishment.

The rally was organized too fast to be reactive. There is no way the DeSantis and Barelvis can come together so quickly. This was pre-planned.

This has nothing to do with honor of sahaba unless you consider "Yazid Zindabad" to be a legitimate slogan.

In case you missed it, Saudi relations with Pakistan have soured over Kashmir and Israel. This is their revenge along with India.

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5 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

It is true, as Indian defense analysit Major Gaurav Arya pointed out,

He is a BJP stooge but most of the thing he said was true. He showed mirror to Pakistan. 

How can two terrorists outfit banned in your country organize a rally of 30k people and state doesn't take action? 

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12 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

He is a BJP stooge but most of the thing he said was true. He showed mirror to Pakistan. 

How can two terrorists outfit banned in your country organize a rally of 30k people and state doesn't take action? 

The man is clearly deranged. He actually has an entire segment on his channel where he openly announces that RAW should start facilitating Deobandi vs Barelawi conflict, through sponsoring clerics on both sides to launch aggressive social media presence in which they curse and declare each other heretics. There has never been considerable violence between Deobandis and Barelawis in Pakistan, a fact which he acknowledges, but he says there is much potential in this fault line which India should exploit.

Regarding Sipahe Sahabah, Musharraf declared them a banned outfit without real cause. Sipahe Sahabah was never a violent organization, they were only banned for spreading hatred and sectarianism. Those elements in Sipahe Sahabah that did want to engage in violent killing of Shi’ites and others left and formed the Lashkare Jhangvi. Sipahe Sahabah always distanced themselves from LJ.

You may also know that Sajid Ali Naqvi’s Tehrike Ja’fariyah was also banned under Musharraf, and it remains banned under its various name changes too, like Sipahe Sahabah. Elements associated with TJP were involved in the assassination of Maulana Azam Tariq, and perhaps other Sipahe Sahabah leaders who preceded him, like Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, Zia ur-Rahman Faruqi, Isar Qasimi, and Ali Sher Haideri. Nevertheless, Sajid Ali Naqvi is his party continue to operate freely in Pakistan, even being a component of the MMA.

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29 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

The man is clearly deranged. He actually has an entire segment on his channel where he openly announces that RAW should start facilitating Deobandi vs Barelawi conflict, through sponsoring clerics on both sides to launch aggressive social media presence in which they curse and declare each other heretics. There has never been considerable violence between Deobandis and Barelawis in Pakistan, a fact which he acknowledges, but he says there is much potential in this fault line which India should exploit.

Regarding Sipahe Sahabah, Musharraf declared them a banned outfit without real cause. Sipahe Sahabah was never a violent organization, they were only banned for spreading hatred and sectarianism. Those elements in Sipahe Sahabah that did want to engage in violent killing of Shi’ites and others left and formed the Lashkare Jhangvi. Sipahe Sahabah always distanced themselves from LJ.

You may also know that Sajid Ali Naqvi’s Tehrike Ja’fariyah was also banned under Musharraf, and it remains banned under its various name changes too, like Sipahe Sahabah. Elements associated with TJP were involved in the assassination of Maulana Azam Tariq, and perhaps other Sipahe Sahabah leaders who preceded him, like Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, Zia ur-Rahman Faruqi, Isar Qasimi, and Ali Sher Haideri. Nevertheless, Sajid Ali Naqvi is his party continue to operate freely in Pakistan, even being a component of the MMA.

Your lies and deception continue. 

Sipah-e-Sahaba has always been and continues to be a violent organization. My family members were killed by them. 

TJP was banned because they created a militant wing called sipah-e-mohammadi in response to SSP to exact revenge for their killings.

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18 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Your lies and deception continue.

I beg to differ

Quote

Sipah-e-Sahaba has always been and continues to be a violent organization. My family members were killed by them. 

I doubt SSP the actual organization ordered the killing of any Shi’ah, including your family members, or that the murders were carried out by official cadres and members of the organization.

Quote

TJP was banned because they created a militant wing called sipah-e-mohammadi in response to SSP to exact revenge for their killings.

You admit TJP created Sipahe Muhammad, but where is the evidence SSP created Lashkare Jhangvi?

There was no legal basis to ban Sipahe Sahabah. Don’t get me wrong, I hold SSP in contempt and have nothing to do with them, nor am I even a Deobandi, but merely banning an organization for spreading hate and sectarianism is ludicrous.

Edited by Cherub786
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52 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

I beg to differ

I doubt SSP the actual organization ordered the killing of any Shi’ah, including your family members, or that the murders were carried out by official cadres and members of the organization.

You admit TJP created Sipahe Muhammad, but where is the evidence SSP created Lashkare Jhangvi?

There was no legal basis to ban Sipahe Sahabah. Don’t get me wrong, I hold SSP in contempt and have nothing to do with them, nor am I even a Deobandi, but merely banning an organization for spreading hate and sectarianism is ludicrous.

You must be the only person in the world who doesn't think SSP was/is a militant organization. But then you think Hazara are dajjal so we can't give too much credence to your thinking. 

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Just now, ShiaMan14 said:

You must be the only person in the world who doesn't think SSP was/is a militant organization. But then you think Hazara are dajjal so we can't give too much credence to your thinking. 

Firstly, I believe the Dajjal is a person, an individual, while the Hazara are a nation of people.

SSP was never a militant organization, that’s just a fact. It was, and is, a non-violent political/religious movement whose leaders and founding fathers were all murdered by Shi’ite extremists with backing from Iran.

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52 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Firstly, I believe the Dajjal is a person, an individual, while the Hazara are a nation of people.

SSP was never a militant organization, that’s just a fact. It was, and is, a non-violent political/religious movement whose leaders and founding fathers were all murdered by Shi’ite extremists with backing from Iran.

Brother Cherub

The facts on the ground in the recent demonstrations prove otherwise. Anyway BTW you have provided no evidence and yet state that 'that's just a fact'.

Secondly the people and or organisations you named previously are more peace advocates and non fitna mongers, the ones' who you stated got their funding from Iran. 

And there are many reasons some of which have been alluded to by brother Shiaman.

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5 minutes ago, haideriam said:

you have provided no evidence and yet state that 'that's just a fact'.

If you have facts for the contrary position, please share them. One who accuses should prove, not one who denies the accusation, as the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

الْبَيِّنَةُ عَلَى الْمُدَّعِي

The proof is upon the claimant

In other words, innocent until proven guilty.

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Brother kindly reread and understand and then you will realize that your above post makes no justification. 

You claimed and  I never accused you, just asked for your evidence. 

Will not enter this territory(posts for the sake of them) as it is non productive. 

I think I respect yourself and myself enough to go there. 

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6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

 

6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

SSP was never a militant organization, that’s just a fact. It was, and is, a non-violent political/religious movement whose leaders and founding fathers were all murdered by Shi’ite extremists with backing from Iran.

I know how you like Western sources:

https://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/147

 

Edited by starlight
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3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

And this is what it says in the Stanford University article:

 

More deception. You must have missed the first paragraph:

Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) was founded in September 1985, a time of rising Sunni-Shia tensions in the Punjabi city of Jhang. With support from the regime of Zia al-Huq and funding from Saudi Arabia, the SSP soon became Pakistan's most prominent anti-Shia militant group. It has since been involved in terrorism, violent sectarianism and local and national electoral politics. 

3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

 

 

Edited by starlight
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List of hit list relased by Sipah e sahaba

Image

Image

 

Some of the points for listed here for those of you who can't read urdu

1. shias are the most najis thing in the world.

2. if there any any shias living in your locality they should be made to move because it is haram to breathe the same air as shias.

3. It not permissible to shake hands, eat meals or have general relations with shias. Nikkah with them is haram.

4. Looking the Alam of shias or eating with them breaks your Nikkah.

5. Shias are bigger kafirs than hindus and jews. If your murder a shia then Jannah is wajib for you.

 

The list gives names shias scholars, some pro unity sunni scholars and TV anchors who have spoken up against shia hate crimes. In the letter above it is instructed to burn the people in the list with acid first to leave them disfugured and then later slaughter them. 

Also says that Umar and Mouviya are the leaders of paradise

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16 hours ago, starlight said:

List of hit list relased by Sipah e sahaba

Image

Image

 

Some of the points for listed here for those of you who can't read urdu

1. shias are the most najis thing in the world.

2. if there any any shias living in your locality they should be made to move because it is haram to breathe the same air as shias.

3. It not permissible to shake hands, eat meals or have general relations with shias. Nikkah with them is haram.

4. Looking the Alam of shias or eating with them breaks your Nikkah.

5. Shias are bigger kafirs than hindus and jews. If your murder a shia then Jannah is wajib for you.

 

The list gives names shias scholars, some pro unity sunni scholars and TV anchors who have spoken up against shia hate crimes. In the letter above it is instructed to burn the people in the list with acid first to leave them disfugured and then later slaughter them. 

Also says that Umar and Mouviya are the leaders of paradise

Lanat Allah on Sipah-e-Sahaba and whoever supports them.

There are some who say SSP is not a violent organization...just misunderstood...they are all kharjee scum.

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On 9/13/2020 at 8:08 PM, Cherub786 said:

Correct, they are Kharijites, in some instances even worse than the historic Kharijites.

Sorry brother Cherub but it's pretty clear you're just doing what I call a "Diversion tactic". When negative remarks surround you, you shift the blame onto something else instead of owning up to it. It's the same tactic used by an ill repute "Shia" by the name of Brother Tawhidi. He goes to western talk shows and preaches Anti muslim tirades. When the hosts say well you're a muslim too. He uses this tactic and says no I'm the Shia kind of Muslim so it doesn't involve me. Then when someone says well Iran is Anti west and shia. Then he says They are not the right kind of Shia Muslims but I am. Just diverting attention onto something else. They are not Kharjites but Sunnis. Terrorism isnt something new in Sunni Islam. The whole religion started with it when the household of Prophet SW was attacked in the Hopes of making it submit to your "Sayyidina Caliphs". No idea why you love hijacking titles of our Ahylebayt[AS] for your people but Oh well nothing new as Umar and Abu Bakr are masters of the elderly in Jannah as compared to Imam Hassan[AS] and Husayn[AS] who are masters of youth even though there are no elderly in Jannah.

Also in another thread you were blaming Shias for being the root cause of all this. No offense but you sound like the kind of guy who blames rape victims for leaving the house and dressing in a certain way instead of imposing punishment on the rapist. Hope Allah[(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)] opens your Locked heart one day.

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2 hours ago, Guest KnowledgeSeeker said:

They are not Kharjites but Sunnis.

You don’t know the definition of Sunni Islam, nor do you know what Kharijism is.

You quoted as example Tawhidi disassociating from Iran, but the whole world knows Iran is the bastion of Shi’ism. If Iran isn’t Shi’ah then who is Shi’ah?

But the same cannot be said of terrorist Kharijite groups, namely, AQ and IS. The entire world of Sunni academia is united that AQ and IS are not Sunni but Kharijite.

2 hours ago, Guest KnowledgeSeeker said:

Terrorism isnt something new in Sunni Islam. The whole religion started with it when the household of Prophet SW was attacked in the Hopes of making it submit to your "Sayyidina Caliphs". No idea why you love hijacking titles of our Ahylebayt[AS] for your people but Oh well nothing new as Umar and Abu Bakr are masters of the elderly in Jannah as compared to Imam Hassan[AS] and Husayn[AS] who are masters of youth even though there are no elderly in Jannah.

Also in another thread you were blaming Shias for being the root cause of all this. No offense but you sound like the kind of guy who blames rape victims for leaving the house and dressing in a certain way instead of imposing punishment on the rapist. Hope Allah[(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)] opens your Locked heart one day.

Why don’t you answer why your first Imam (Ali رضى الله عنه) gave bay’ah to our first Sunni Khalifah (Abu Bakr رضى الله عنه)?

Was he forced to give bay’ah? Or, as many Shi’ah claim, he gave bay’ah under taqiyah?

Secondly, you accuse our first three Caliphs of terrorism (God forbid) but your own literature mentions the fact that sayyidina Ali رضى الله عنه had a ditch dug, a bunch of heretics thrown in it, and then had them burnt alive. What is this according to you, is it terrorism?

According to your doctrine, when the twelfth Imam appears, will he be a peaceful man or a man of war and bloodshed?

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51 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

You don’t know the definition of Sunni Islam, nor do you know what Kharijism is.

You quoted as example Tawhidi disassociating from Iran, but the whole world knows Iran is the bastion of Shi’ism. If Iran isn’t Shi’ah then who is Shi’ah?

But the same cannot be said of terrorist Kharijite groups, namely, AQ and IS. The entire world of Sunni academia is united that AQ and IS are not Sunni but Kharijite.

Why don’t you answer why your first Imam (Ali رضى الله عنه) gave bay’ah to our first Sunni Khalifah (Abu Bakr رضى الله عنه)?

Was he forced to give bay’ah? Or, as many Shi’ah claim, he gave bay’ah under taqiyah?

Secondly, you accuse our first three Caliphs of terrorism (God forbid) but your own literature mentions the fact that sayyidina Ali رضى الله عنه had a ditch dug, a bunch of heretics thrown in it, and then had them burnt alive. What is this according to you, is it terrorism?

According to your doctrine, when the twelfth Imam appears, will he be a peaceful man or a man of war and bloodshed?

Aren't you supposed to answer of Caliph Abu Bakr and Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had a disagreement over caliphate?

 

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Why don’t you answer why your first Imam (Ali رضى الله عنه) gave bay’ah to

fyi

Quote

Why was Amr al-Aas so sure that Hazrat Ali ((عليه السلام).) would not accept the method of the previous Caliphs? If Hazrat Ali ((عليه السلام).) had already given his allegiance to them, then why was he so dead against accepting their methods that he even rejected the caliphate which was presented to him? If no one in this group asked, why anyone later also did not ask Hazrat Ali ((عليه السلام).) that since he had already given his allegiance to Abu Bakr and Umar, why he refused to act as per their way? 

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/ali-ibn-abi-talib-and-allegiance-sayyid-saeed-akhtar-rizvi

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-3-allah-son-abu-quhafah

Read about Fadak and Karbala. 

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1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

You don’t know the definition of Sunni Islam, nor do you know what Kharijism is.

You quoted as example Tawhidi disassociating from Iran, but the whole world knows Iran is the bastion of Shi’ism. If Iran isn’t Shi’ah then who is Shi’ah?

But the same cannot be said of terrorist Kharijite groups, namely, AQ and IS. The entire world of Sunni academia is united that AQ and IS are not Sunni but Kharijite.

Why don’t you answer why your first Imam (Ali رضى الله عنه) gave bay’ah to our first Sunni Khalifah (Abu Bakr رضى الله عنه)?

Was he forced to give bay’ah? Or, as many Shi’ah claim, he gave bay’ah under taqiyah?

Secondly, you accuse our first three Caliphs of terrorism (God forbid) but your own literature mentions the fact that sayyidina Ali رضى الله عنه had a ditch dug, a bunch of heretics thrown in it, and then had them burnt alive. What is this according to you, is it terrorism?

According to your doctrine, when the twelfth Imam appears, will he be a peaceful man or a man of war and bloodshed?

I gave you the example of the "Diversion tactic" Tawhidi uses to mask his agenda. He believes that everyone is the "wrong kind of Muslim" except him and entertains Anti-Islamic thoughts brought up by the interviewers he goes. If he goes to a Hindu, He'll say Muslims are at fault for eating beef and all the lynchings are justified. If he goes to any Religious sect, He'll listen to the Anti Muslim thought coming from the religious sect then agree with them while telling them how he isn't that kind of Muslim. In return, he gets a head-pat and on air screen time.  You do the same, Whenever the issue of Sunni Terrorism comes, You act like Tawhidi and say No no, that's not me. Those are someone else. Sorry but it really doesn't work. But you seem to have a penchant of defending them as shown here so I won't really say anything bad about your personal heroes as I wouldn't want to insult your precious Sunni Ibn Taymiyyah, the man whose books are literally wajib to have in every Sunni book-shop in the world though I have no idea why someone would go around defending them as "Muslims".

"You consider ISIS and Taliban kuffar? We don't consider them kuffar because we don't make takfir of the people of the Qiblah. ISIS are Khawarij, and Taliban definitely are militant extremists, but we consider them Muslims at the end of the day, although ISIS are muharibin."

As for your question on Imam Ali(عليه السلام), On another topic I was reading that you were holding the Quran and explicitly asking people where does it say that Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is the successor of the Prophet(SW). It told me everything about your level of intelligence that day. You're pretty much the same level of genius as Shashi Tharoor, people who mask their words in an eloquent tone to make others feel like they know what they are talking about but when you put the words together, there's no substance or sense which in turn makes "debating" with people like you the same as whistling at graves.  Every nation before us has been tested. In the time of Prophet(SW), The test was to identify the correct religion and follow it with the default options being: Christianity, Judaism, Paganism, zoroastrianism and Islam. We are the people of the end of times. Our test has been made quite difficult yet easy at the same. Our test isn't to identify what religion is correct as in our hearts we all know it's Islam but for us Muslims, the challenge is WHICH ISLAM IS THE CORRECT PATH? And we have a musical chair of 73 sects where you gotta pick one using your OWN INTELLIGENCE. Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) hasn't been cruel to us in this challenge either, if he put everything as explicit as possible. Then really what is the challenge in the test? Where are you going to use your own intelligence? Being spoon-fed isn't using your intelligence. As a shia proverb goes, If it said explicitly in the Quran about Imam Ali((عليه السلام))'s succession, the Quran would be altered/destroyed/illegal to own by your "Sayyidina Caliphs". Perhaps reading Ummayad history would give you perspective on why it's a proverb. However, the Quran isn't explicit yet it's subtle. Feel free to explore these: https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/quran-and-ahlul-bayt https://www.islamicbooks.info/H-21-Math'habs/Quran-Ahlul-6.htm 

I know you're allergic to Shia websites and if a western scholar wrote the same stuff in their books, You would probably believe it more there but hey worth checking out right? Our Imams(عليه السلام) have told us the interpretations of various quranic Surahs which refer to their position. This is why Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says that only He(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Masoom(عليه السلام) know the correct interpretations of the Quran. Whomever misguides people by deliberately denying them or introducing his own interpretations is surely destined for Hellfire.

As for your little question: 

Secondly, you accuse our first three Caliphs of terrorism (God forbid) but your own literature mentions the fact that sayyidina Ali رضى الله عنه had a ditch dug, a bunch of heretics thrown in it, and then had them burnt alive. What is this according to you, is it terrorism?

According to your doctrine, when the twelfth Imam appears, will he be a peaceful man or a man of war and bloodshed?

^ Are you honestly this shameless that in a vain attempt of defending your "Sayyidina Caliphs" that you would question the actions of Imam Ali(عليه السلام). That you would compare Imam Ali(عليه السلام) punishing heretics equaivalent to an ASSAULT ON THE HOUSEHOLD OF MUHAMMAD(SW) to absolve your Caliphs of their actions?You can deny these events all you want, It does not change history nor it changes what happens. I can deny anything I want, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Are you really this deformed in your heart that you would even go one step further and say Imam Mahdi(عليه السلام) would be a man of bloodshed? We do not question the actions of our Imams(عليه السلام). Prophet(SW) famously said Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is the gate of knowledge. I think it's pretty slanderous to question his actions and misconstrue them to fit your narrative because none of us has the same level of knowledge Imam Ali(عليه السلام) has which is why we cannot even comprehend why they did something the way they did. Not even all your Caliphs+Companions combined. In an attempt to defend your Caliphs, you tried to lower the position of Imam Ali(عليه السلام). I'm in disbelief, brother. But this is nothing new in Sunni Islam. Whenever you want to raise the image of your Caliphs, you lower the position of someone else for example that famous hadith you people love quoting where the Prophet(SW) was sitting with his legs open or something but he immediately changed his stance when Usman came in because "Usman is the guy who even angels are modest around". Is this something you say about Prophet(SW)? Is that something you say about Imam Ali(عليه السلام)? I just have no words man.

Wasalam.

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On 9/15/2020 at 6:00 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

 

 

This is why I am holding back. Because of things like this. I wonder if these animal, and actually calling them animals is a compliment they don't deserve, who did this know that these men probably had a family. They probably had others who relied on them for support, and a mother, father, sister, brothers, children who loved them. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) help our brothers and sisters in Pakistan with a Mighty Help and give them Sabr thru these difficult trials. My heart breaks over things like this. It is hard for me to look at these photos. 

And for all of you who support groups who do this, either implicitly thru your silence, or explicitly thru your action, know that this is the 'fruits' of this implicit and explicitly support. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide you to the right way. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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12 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

This is why I am holding back.

Brother, what are you holding back. If it is exposing enemies of Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام), you shouldn't. After this episode started, I'm seeing more and more clips in favor of Yazid (la), potraying him as God-fearing legitimate caliph and using titles like rahimallaho anhu. If we don't expose them this movement of theirs will continue till all sunnis unanimously start believing in his khilafat as they do for the first two. 

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