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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lebanon will be secular

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Recently Lebanese president Michel aoun said that the country would probably become secular. 

Even if I am not fan of secularism I think it is probably a good thing for Lebanon because there are just too much communities and the actual system look to be litteraly bankrupt. 

Do you think that could be good for Shia Lebanese or even for hezbollah? 

I would be curious to have the opinion of Shia Lebanese. 

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16 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Even if I am not fan of secularism I think it is probably a good thing for Lebanon because there are just too much communities and the actual system look to be litteraly bankrupt.

It's pretty easy to find examples of civil war that have no basis in religion. Libya right now is a good example where there is simply a geo-political basis for conflict. The bloodbath between the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda is another where faith was not a basis, but race was.

Lebanon is in a very sensitive position and one where more powerful regional and international powers will want to determine any outcomeI I am not sure the Lebanese have their destiny entirely within their own hands.

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Just now, Haji 2003 said:

It's pretty easy to find examples of civil war that have no basis in religion. Libya right now is a good example, the bloodbath between the Hutu's and Tutsi's in Rwanda is another.

I never said that. I always found people who said "religion cause war" as stupid and uneducated. However there are really to much religious communities in Lebanon. At the end i feel like a more secular Lebanon would be maybe better. But maybe I am wrong and people could contradict me. 

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15 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Do you think that could be good for Shia Lebanese

Good for them because the lebanon is going to become a secular country? I think there will be no difference, after all I know many  Lebanese shi’a are who are secular. Lebanese Shi’a are more open minded than Lebanese Sunnis.

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15 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Recently Lebanese president Michel aoun said that the country would probably become secular. 

Even if I am not fan of secularism I think it is probably a good thing for Lebanon because there are just too much communities and the actual system look to be litteraly bankrupt. 

Do you think that could be good for Shia Lebanese or even for hezbollah? 

I would be curious to have the opinion of Shia Lebanese. 

Truth is the Christians are getting nervous because the present confessional system of government doesn't reflect the demographics on the ground. A census hasn't been held in a long time, but I suspect if it was, the results would be startling for Christians. Lebanon is clearly a Muslim majority state, Christians do not even form a plurality if Sunnis and Shi'ah are counted separately, because the number of Shi'ah alone exceeds the number of Christians, and in all likelihood even the number of Sunnis alone exceeds that of all the Christian denominations combined.

Therefore, the present corruption and problems plaguing Lebanon are mostly due to the obscure confessional system which is just a way for Christians to maintain power disproportionate to their numbers. Christian population has fallen for two main reason 1. lesser fertility rate compared to Muslims, 2. higher emigration rate compared to Muslims

Lebanon's Muslims should wake up and realize they can easily take control of the country, abolish the stupid confessional system, and transform Lebanon into a proper democracy where the government will necessarily be more accountable than what it is currently. I also suspect that Lebanon's Muslims want more Islamization of Lebanon to match the social trends of the majority community, and are prevented from it because of the confessional system and the disproportionate political power wielded by the Christian minority. No wander Aoun is calling for more secularism. Read between the lines, if Lebanon's Muslims are smart they will understand the reality and act accordingly, if not, they will continue with the status quo

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On 8/31/2020 at 2:36 AM, Mohammadi_follower said:

Recently Lebanese president Michel aoun said that the country would probably become secular. 

Even if I am not fan of secularism I think it is probably a good thing for Lebanon because there are just too much communities and the actual system look to be litteraly bankrupt. 

Do you think that could be good for Shia Lebanese or even for hezbollah? 

I would be curious to have the opinion of Shia Lebanese. 

Of course its better. This means political parties are not tied to religions sects. The people that work in government works for all people instead of sect interest. Iraq should do the same thing. Every Corrupted sect will suffer from it because they cannot abuse the system as they did before. Good development for Lebanon if its true.

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17 hours ago, Diaz said:

Good for them because the lebanon is going to become a secular country? I think there will be no difference, after all I know many  Lebanese shi’a are who are secular. Lebanese Shi’a are more open minded than Lebanese Sunnis.

What do you mean by "more open minded". You think being secular is similar to open minded? 

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6 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

What do you mean by "more open minded". You think being secular is similar to open minded? 

What? I meant there will be no problem with Lebanese Shi’as if Lebanon became a secular country. Of course not all of them, but many. 

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23 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Truth is the Christians are getting nervous because the present confessional system of government doesn't reflect the demographics on the ground. A census hasn't been held in a long time, but I suspect if it was, the results would be startling for Christians. Lebanon is clearly a Muslim majority state, Christians do not even form a plurality if Sunnis and Shi'ah are counted separately, because the number of Shi'ah alone exceeds the number of Christians, and in all likelihood even the number of Sunnis alone exceeds that of all the Christian denominations combined.

Therefore, the present corruption and problems plaguing Lebanon are mostly due to the obscure confessional system which is just a way for Christians to maintain power disproportionate to their numbers. Christian population has fallen for two main reason 1. lesser fertility rate compared to Muslims, 2. higher emigration rate compared to Muslims

Lebanon's Muslims should wake up and realize they can easily take control of the country, abolish the stupid confessional system, and transform Lebanon into a proper democracy where the government will necessarily be more accountable than what it is currently. I also suspect that Lebanon's Muslims want more Islamization of Lebanon to match the social trends of the majority community, and are prevented from it because of the confessional system and the disproportionate political power wielded by the Christian minority. No wander Aoun is calling for more secularism. Read between the lines, if Lebanon's Muslims are smart they will understand the reality and act accordingly, if not, they will continue with the status quo

It's an unfortunate thing that Christianity in the Middle East has been facing a decline for the past few decades given the ongoing conflict, and Lebanon is a pretty good example of it. Add Sunni Muslim refugees from Palestine and now Syria, and subtract Christians expatriating to western nations, and you've got you're Muslim majority. 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that all Lebanese Muslims want an islamic state, especially the Lebanese Shia who are constantly worried about being abused given their minority status (from what I know of the numbers, Sunnis outnumber them now too). It's best for everyone to have a state that doesn't identify with any religion, and give people the option to vote for the best representative rather than their fellow Christian, etc.

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On 9/1/2020 at 5:32 PM, BleedKnee said:

It's an unfortunate thing that Christianity in the Middle East has been facing a decline

How is that unfortunate? That is surely a positive development

Quote

you've got you're Muslim majority. 

In sha Allah

Quote

 Lebanese Shia who are constantly worried about being abused given their minority status (from what I know of the numbers, Sunnis outnumber them now too)

That's news to me. Well good news for sure (naturally I'm a Sunni Muslim myself)

I'm fairly positive Shi'ah used to outnumber Sunnis in Lebanon for the longest time (not including Sunni refugees from Palestine and Syria of course). So I will have to confirm this news

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On 9/2/2020 at 2:32 AM, BleedKnee said:

It's an unfortunate thing that Christianity in the Middle East has been facing a decline for the past few decades given the ongoing conflict, and Lebanon is a pretty good example of it. Add Sunni Muslim refugees from Palestine and now Syria, and subtract Christians expatriating to western nations, and you've got you're Muslim majority. 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that all Lebanese Muslims want an islamic state, especially the Lebanese Shia who are constantly worried about being abused given their minority status (from what I know of the numbers, Sunnis outnumber them now too). It's best for everyone to have a state that doesn't identify with any religion, and give people the option to vote for the best representative rather than their fellow Christian, etc.

 

4 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

How is that unfortunate? That is surely a positive development

In sha Allah

That's news to me. Well good news for sure (naturally I'm a Sunni Muslim myself)

I'm fairly positive Shi'ah used to outnumber Sunnis in Lebanon for the longest time (not including Sunni refugees from Palestine and Syria of course). So I will have to confirm this news

The exact number of shias and sunnis in Lebanon is unknown and no one had never really agreed of who was the most numerous between shias and sunnis. If we count Syrian and Palestinian refugees so then yes sunnis are more but they are not Lebanese. 

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