Temporary Marriage /Mut'a

[Guest Melisa]

Selam brothers and Sisters 

Is a temporary marriage valid without the permission of my father? And is the permissionnecessary even if my father is not a practicing Muslim? 

Thanks 

[Abu_Zahra]

Walaikum as salam

Unless you have already been married, you require the permission of your father (according to most scholars). 

[Melisa]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:45 AM, Mahdavist said:

Walaikum as salam

Unless you have already been married, you require the permission of your father (according to most scholars). 

No I never have been married before ..but someone told me that the permission isn't needed when my father isn't practicing but I wasnt sure if I should believe this...but thank you for your answer 

[Abu Hadi]

1 hour ago, Melisa said:

No I never have been married before ..but someone told me that the permission isn't needed when my father isn't practicing but I wasnt sure if I should believe this...but thank you for your answer 

If your father refuses to let you get married (mutah is marriage) for reasons that have nothing to do with your potential husbands Deen and / or Aklaq then his permission is not required after that point. You can get married without his permission. But your potential husband at least needs to ask, even if your father is not practicing. That is according to most marjaa. There are a few, such as Sayyid Rouhani who say it isnt necessary in your situation. You must follow the ruling of the Marjaa you follow unless your marjaa allows you to follow another marjaa for this issue

[Zaydism]

1 minute ago, Abu Hadi said:

If your father refuses to let you get married (mutah is marriage) for reasons that have nothing to do with your potential husbands Deen and / or Aklaq then his permission is not required after that point. You can get married without his permission. But your potential husband at least needs to ask, even if your father is not practicing. That is according to most marjaa. There are a few, such as Sayyid Rouhani who say it isnt necessary in your situation. You must follow the ruling of the Marjaa you follow unless your marjaa allows you to follow another marjaa for this issue

Would Mutah marriage being a cultural blemish on the reputation of the family be a valid reason? 

[Abu Hadi]

3 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Would Mutah marriage being a cultural blemish on the reputation of the family be a valid reason? 

Some marjaa say that if the marriage would do extreme harm to the reputation of the girl or the family then it shouldnt be done. Extreme harm to reputation is an aklaqi concept not a fiqhi concept, though, and the marriage would still be valid as long as fiqh was followed, but it might not be wise to do it. Depending on the situation. I realize this is not a straitforward answer to your question but there are so many variables when it comes to extreme harm to reputation that i dont think anyone who is not familiar with most of these variables of the particular marriage could give you a straiforward and complete answer. 

Most of the time it comes down to weighing the consequences of not doing the marriage vs the consequences of doing it. 

[Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi]

40 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

If your father refuses to let you get married (mutah is marriage) for reasons that have nothing to do with your potential husbands Deen and / or Aklaq then his permission is not required after that point. You can get married without his permission.

I am very confused with this. Do we have it in authentic traditions?

[Abu Hadi]

14 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I am very confused with this. Do we have it in authentic traditions?

Ruling 2396. If a girl is not a virgin, or if she is a virgin but her father or paternal grandfather totally prevent her from marrying every individual who is legally (sharʿan) and commonly considered to be appropriate for her, then it is not necessary for her to obtain their consent. Furthermore, if they are not at all prepared to participate in the matter of her getting married, or if they are not competent to give their consent because of insanity or suchlike, then in these cases, their consent is not necessary. Similarly, if it is not possible to get their consent because they are absent or because of some other reason, and if the girl has a great need to get married at that time, the consent of her father or paternal grandfather is not necessary.
https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2330/

Edited August 28, 2020 by Abu Hadi

[Muhammed Ali]

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

an aklaqi concept not a fiqhi concept

Can you please justify this dichotomy? 

[Guest Guest786110]

Dear Sister,

Assalaamun Alaykum,

Forget everyone else, just write directly to the office of your Mar'ja and explain in detail your situation with complete honesty and no bias, and let them make the ruling for you.

W salaam

[Abu Hadi]

1 hour ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Can you please justify this dichotomy? 

I said this because I don't know any fiqhi ruling that derive from this concept. 

[Muhammed Ali]

20 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

I said this because I don't know any fiqhi ruling that derive from this concept. 

Is there any evidence from the Ahlulbayt for this dichotomy? I am asking in general, regardless of what issue you may be discussing.

The dichotomy being that the rulings for some actions fall under akhlaq and not fiqh.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Muhammed Ali

[Abu Hadi]

I did a search in Sayyid Sistani's Q&A for the concept of 'reputation' سمعة as it applies to marriage. I didn't find anything in the fiqh area. I'm sure there are hadiths that deal with this, but I am not aware of any. I might be wrong about this, but, again, I didn't find any. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Abu Hadi

[Laayla]

@Melisa I don't like the fact that the boy who is interested in her, wants to only go through her and not ask permission from her father.

Sister, red flag.  I don't know what your relationship with your parents are, but please don't go into this type of marriage without seeking advice from someone you trust, and don't allow any boy to take advantage of you.  Please explain your situation to a mature and God fearing individual.

I'm afraid this boy is trying to take advantage of you and looking out for his interests only.  

Think a thousand times before going into something so serious like muta.

Is there anyone you can trust to explain your situation?

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

[ShiaofAli12]

5 hours ago, Laayla said:

I don't like the fact that the boy who is interested in her, wants to only go through her and not ask permission from her father.

Sister, red flag.  I don't know what your relationship with your parents are, but please don't go into this type of marriage without seeking advice from someone you trust, and don't allow any boy to take advantage of you.  Please explain your situation to a mature and God fearing individual.

I'm afraid this boy is trying to take advantage of you and looking out for his interests only.  

Think a thousand times before going into something so serious like muta.

Is there anyone you can trust to explain your situation?

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

I totally agree with this, you have to be careful because I've heard many times, that if a boy is unable to talk to her father, then he isn't a good fit. He wants to avoid this interaction with your father for Gods knows which reason. Please @Melisa listen to Laayla's advice.

With Duas and Salams.

[THREE1THREE]

9 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

harm to the reputation of the girl or the family

More like ruins the arrogance of the family in most cases which 99.9 percent most of the time.  

[Abu_Zahra]

There is a chapter that deals with this issue in Wasail al Shia titled:

     باب حكم التمتع بالبكر بغير اذن أبيها

(Chapter on the rule of mut’ah with a virgin without the permission of her father)

Some relevant narrations to this discussion from the above chapter (comments in italics are my own):

 

The following narration states that there is nothing wrong in mut’ah with a virgin unless it leads to shame for her family

محمد بن يعقوب، عن محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد وعبدالله ابني محمد بن عيسى، عن علي بن الحكم، عن زياد بن أبي الحلال قال:

سمعت أبا عبدالله (عليه السلام) يقول: لا بأس أن يتمتع البكر ما لم يفض اليها كراهية العيب على أهلها

(Al Kafi, vol 5, pg 462)
 

This next narration states that a virgin cannot have a mut’ah marriage without her father’s permission:

عبدالله بن جعفر في (قرب الاسناد): عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر البزنطي، عن الرضا (عليه السلام) قال: البكر لا تتزوج متعة إلا باذن أبيها

However it should also be noted that in this same chapter there is a narration from Tahdheeb ul Ahkaam which seems to state that the virgin can in fact agree to mut’ah without permission (this is possibly why some jurists have allowed it. It may come down to which narration is stronger or to taking the more precautious position)

 

The following narration states that the virgin who has a father does not marry in mut’ah without his permission 

وبإسناده عن أحمد بن محمّد، عن محمّد بن اسماعيل، عن ظريف، عن أبان، عن أبي مريم، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) قال: العذراء الّتي لها أب لا تزوّج متعه إلاّ بإذن أبيها.

(Tahdheeb ul Ahkaam Vol 7 pg 255  and  Al Istibsaar Vol 3 pg 146)

 

Finally it should be noted that based on some narrations it appears to be discouraged to engage in mut’ah with virgins. For example (also from the same chapter in Wasail):

وعن ابن أبي عمير، عن جميل بن صالح، عن محمد بن مروان، عن عبد الملك بن عمرو قال: سألت أبا عبدالله (عليه السلام) عن المتعة، فقال: إن أمرها شديد فاتقوا الابكار.

(Kitab al Nawadir Pg 86)

[Guest Zaynab Abbas]

On 8/29/2020 at 5:11 PM, Mahdavist said:

However it should also be noted that in this same chapter there is a narration from Tahdheeb ul Ahkaam which seems to state that the virgin can in fact agree to mut’ah without permission (this is possibly why some jurists have allowed it. It may come down to which narration is stronger or to taking the more precautious position)

Do you have this part in Arabic?

[Abu_Zahra]

4 hours ago, Guest Zaynab Abbas said:

Do you have this part in Arabic?

وعنه، عن العباس بن معروف، عن سعدان بن مسلم، عن رجل، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) قال: لا بأس بتزويج البكر إذا رضيت من غير اذن أبويها.

Tahdheeb al Ahkam, Vol 7, Pg 254

 

If I'm not mistaken, Sayed al Khoie considers the narration to be weak (see Link 1, and Link 2)

Edited August 30, 2020 by Mahdavist

[Guest Phylo]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:51 AM, Melisa said:

No I never have been married before ..but someone told me that the permission isn't needed when my father isn't practicing but I wasnt sure if I should believe this...but thank you for your answer 

Id probably look into a Scholar's opinion, like Ayatollah Sistani, Ayatollah Khamenei, etc. This topic, many people forget some rules on it regarding the father's permission and if the female is independent or not. Its better to see what they say to be 100% safe and sure.