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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ibn Abbas and Karbala? Thoughts on Ammar Nakshawani's recent majlis

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Salaam everyone, So in Sayed Ammar's recent Majlis on youtube he discusses companions of the Prophet (s) who were alive when Karbala occurred. The first one he mentions (around the 30-min mark) is Ibn 'Abbas. If you watch it, he essentially states that ibn 'Abbas strayed off the straight path right at the end of his life, after having been faithful to the Prophet (s) and Imam Ali (a) for most of his life. By begging Husayn (a) not to go towards Karbala, Ammar essentially implies that he becomes disloyal, even turning munafiq (he doesn't say this, but it's clear that his opinion of ibn Abbas is low). This comes as a surprise to me, since I thought that most Shia generally respected ibn 'Abbas. he was an old man by the time of Karbala, and I always thought that he was just scared for Husayn and hoping that something terrible could be avoided. I never thought that he was a traitor or anything like that. So am I missing something? I've always thought of ibn 'Abbas as being a virtuous and learned companion who didn't fall into depravity after the demise of the Prophet (s), but if Nakshawani is to be believed, he swerved at the last moment simply by begging Husayn not to go. 

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On 8/24/2020 at 3:11 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Ibn Abbas has a bit of a checkered history. If I am not mistaken he was a commander in Imam Hasan's army and betrayed him by taking bribes from Muawiya.

Whoa, really? I've never heard of that. If you happen to have a source could you send? If not then no worries. 

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4 hours ago, Cameron from DC said:

Whoa, really? I've never heard of that. If you happen to have a source could you send? If not then no worries. 

Yes I will find it. It was one of Imam Hassan's seerah that I read. 

It was someone from the Abbas family tree and I remember it being Ibn Abbas. I will try to find the source.

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Guest Concerned brother

Haven't heard the majlis you refer to yet but I listened to Sayed Ammar's majlis on the 5th Holy night of Muharram on circumcision & female genital mutilation which was then linked to the events of Karbala in last 10 minutes by stating that in Karbala it was whole bodies which were mutilated by being trampled on. A clever transion & whilst I understand contemporary issues need to be discussed, I couldn't help but feel I hadn't achieved any take home messages to spiritually uplift my soul to become a better practising Muslim through the many lessons of the tragedy of Karbala, and that it was a wasted opportunity on such a Holy night. 

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7 minutes ago, Guest Concerned brother said:

Haven't heard the majlis you refer to yet but I listened to Sayed Ammar's majlis on the 5th Holy night of Muharram on circumcision & female genital mutilation which was then linked to the events of Karbala in last 10 minutes by stating that in Karbala it was whole bodies which were mutilated by being trampled on. A clever transion & whilst I understand contemporary issues need to be discussed, I couldn't help but feel I hadn't achieved any take home messages to spiritually uplift my soul to become a better practising Muslim through the many lessons of the tragedy of Karbala, and that it was a wasted opportunity on such a Holy night. 

I agree. Dr.Nakshwani is a strong speaker,I wish he gave more 'family oriented' lectures on these night and left topics like this for the rest of the year. Muharram is the time when the whole family gathers to listen to majalis and we try and teaching the young ones about history and Azadari so I rather have topics which everyone can benefit and learn from like his last lecture about the companions of Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) was excellent.

Probably his point of view is that Muharram lectures have a bigger audience so he should address issues affecting the Shias and Muslims on global level. As long as he keeps it a mix of both it's okay. 

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Guest Concerned brother

Thank you for you're input. I happened to meet a brother yesterday who had sat down with his family to listen to the aforementioned lecture. As a father sitting in front of his daughter*  he became highly embarrassed when Dr Nakshwani was lecturing in depth regarding the female clitoral hood as a pleasure zone and he had to get up and leave the room. I wonder how many other families experienced a similar scenario? 

Addressing issues effecting Muslims on a global level I get, but come on there is also an inherrant etiquette & responsibility which comes with the privilege and honour of sitting on the Mimbar-e-Rasool?  

 I personally feel that spending 50 or so minutes on such a subject, in front of a global audience of families tuning in during a prime slot on the 5th Holy night of Muharram is not an appropriate topic of discussion! 

* in the preamble to the lecture there was a disclaimer that it was suitable for over 15's only which the brother's daughter was. This also immediately excluded anyone under that age who had intended to sit down &  listen to his lecture that evening. 

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3 hours ago, Guest Concerned brother said:

Thank you for you're input. I happened to meet a brother yesterday who had sat down with his family to listen to the aforementioned lecture. As a father sitting in front of his daughter*  he became highly embarrassed when Dr Nakshwani was lecturing in depth regarding the female clitoral hood as a pleasure zone and he had to get up and leave the room. I wonder how many other families experienced a similar scenario? 

Addressing issues effecting Muslims on a global level I get, but come on there is also an inherrant etiquette & responsibility which comes with the privilege and honour of sitting on the Mimbar-e-Rasool?  

 I personally feel that spending 50 or so minutes on such a subject, in front of a global audience of families tuning in during a prime slot on the 5th Holy night of Muharram is not an appropriate topic of discussion!

+100

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3 hours ago, Guest Concerned brother said:

Thank you for you're input. I happened to meet a brother yesterday who had sat down with his family to listen to the aforementioned lecture. As a father sitting in front of his daughter*  he became highly embarrassed when Dr Nakshwani was lecturing in depth regarding the female clitoral hood as a pleasure zone and he had to get up and leave the room. I wonder how many other families experienced a similar scenario? 

Addressing issues effecting Muslims on a global level I get, but come on there is also an inherrant etiquette & responsibility which comes with the privilege and honour of sitting on the Mimbar-e-Rasool?  

 I personally feel that spending 50 or so minutes on such a subject, in front of a global audience of families tuning in during a prime slot on the 5th Holy night of Muharram is not an appropriate topic of discussion! 

* in the preamble to the lecture there was a disclaimer that it was suitable for over 15's only which the brother's daughter was. This also immediately excluded anyone under that age who had intended to sit down &  listen to his lecture that evening. 

The majalis had a 15 rated warning before it started.

3 hours ago, Guest Concerned brother said:

 I personally feel that spending 50 or so minutes on such a subject, in front of a global audience of families tuning in during a prime slot on the 5th Holy night of Muharram is not an appropriate topic of discussion! 

I entirely agree with this. If it was a practice that affected the community directly I could understand. We could speculate why he brought up the topic, but let's not.

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1 hour ago, Guest Concerned brother said:

Thank you for you're input. I happened to meet a brother yesterday who had sat down with his family to listen to the aforementioned lecture. As a father sitting in front of his daughter*  he became highly embarrassed when Dr Nakshwani was lecturing in depth regarding the female clitoral hood as a pleasure zone and he had to get up and leave the room. I wonder how many other families experienced a similar scenario? 

Addressing issues effecting Muslims on a global level I get, but come on there is also an inherrant etiquette & responsibility which comes with the privilege and honour of sitting on the Mimbar-e-Rasool?  

 I personally feel that spending 50 or so minutes on such a subject, in front of a global audience of families tuning in during a prime slot on the 5th Holy night of Muharram is not an appropriate topic of discussion! 

* in the preamble to the lecture there was a disclaimer that it was suitable for over 15's only which the brother's daughter was. This also immediately excluded anyone under that age who had intended to sit down &  listen to his lecture that evening. 

I kind of disagree. People don't like to mention topics like sex and puberty because it is seen as a taboo by their culture. But islam came to give knowledge in every field. In Muslim majority countries we have a lot of problems that people shun away from because it's taboo. So I think it's highly praisable to mention these problems and clear up all ignorant behavior people have on these topics.

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57 minutes ago, ahlulbaytkr said:

So I think it's highly praisable to mention these problems and clear up all ignorant behavior people have on these topics.

And precisely how much of a problem is FGM amongst 12er Shias? I can think of far more pressing problems. 

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Addresses an important topic - *Why; not the right time; unnecessary; too taboo; etc*

Doesn't address the topic - *Boring lectures; too scared to talk about taboo issues; now is the best time; etc*

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2 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Addresses an important topic - *Why; not the right time; unnecessary; too taboo; etc*

Doesn't address the topic - *Boring lectures; too scared to talk about taboo issues; now is the best time; etc*

No one said it's unnecessary or too taboo,just that it is not important enough for nights of Ashra e Muharram. 

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2 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Ibn e Abbas did bayah of Abu Bakr as well.

The name of Ibne Abbas is not present in 4 or 7 people that remained loyal to Imam Ali (عليه السلام). Did you came across specific narration that says that he immediately did bayah. 

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Guest Molana Laddan

History tells us Abdullah Ibn Jaffar Tayyar was sick at the time of journey. Many others, including the elder son of Sayeda Zainab AS were not in Karbala (she had a son older than martyrs Aun and Muhammad). The purpose of Imam Hussain was not war, it was Amr bil Maroof. Being an Imam, and since it definitely was not Imam’s intention to shed anyone’s blood, Imam had to leave important people in critical places for people’s guidance, for looking up the amanas, the jurisdiction between parties, deciding disputes, that an Imam can leave hanging for the sake of his ultimate mission. He needed Faqih Level people in places that could function as his deputies in his and 4th Imam absence. 
 

From 7-11th Aimah, it was the struggle to prepare ummah for the ghaiba of the last Imam. Even then the last Imam made the ghaiba gradual. 
 

In the circumstances Imam Hussian has to leave, he had to keep people of trust in the back. 

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5 hours ago, starlight said:

I have always wondered why Abdullah ibn Ja'far didn't go to Karbala. He sent his wife and sons but didn't go himself. 

Yes he was either sick or if I remember correctly he got injured during Siffin or Naharwan.

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Opinions differ regarding what types of lectures should be given during Ashura or Muharram.

 

Some talk about random things and then tie it back to Imam Husain at the end.

Some cover a subject over the 10(+) nights like they're giving a course in uni. Then give salaams to the Imam at the end.

Some delve deeply into the history and details of the riwayas regarding what happened.

Some discuss deeply spiritual aspects of the Imam's stance.

Some want to be #real. Some want viral videos.

 

It's a spectrum, but it's far and few between that you'll find any actual substance to most of what happens today. Not that the topic he covered is completely useless. It exists and is relevant to some community somewhere. But Ashura is a time of spiritual revival and connection to God, I can't understand the choice. People are of all different states, they are seeking something different and different things benefit them in different ways. Communities will get what they deserve, and I guess one community got Dr Nakshawani. Too bad for them I guess.

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