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In the Name of God بسم الله

Muqassirs: asking for help from other than Allah

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  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Cool said:

No, I am not wrong in that.  It all depends what you believe something as "other than Allah". 

And dont take me out of context.

:hahaha:

just leave it bro. evidence provided by me above are sufficient for the readers.

 

let us come towards the part that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) despite being Al Qadir, he is asking for help from his creation,

1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

you cannot apply the same concept everywhere brother. and you're only doing tafseer by your own will.

 

at the time of previous prophets (a) people only needed to believe in them and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) that's all.

 

here in this verse, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly says someone is helping him and his rasool. and obviously you cannot apply the criteria of believing here. Imam Ali (asws) is clearly helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and his rasool way after believing in him.

 

We had Sent Our Rasools with the clear proofs, and We sent down the Book and the Scale with them, in order for them to establish justice with the people. And We Sent down the iron wherein is severe violence and benefits for the people, and for Allah to Know who helps Him and His Rasool in the secret. Surely Allah is Strong, Mighty [57:25]


 

as for being omnipotent, with whose powers is Imam Ali (asws) helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ)? his own? despite being omnipotent, why does Allah (عزّ وجلّ) takes help from the angels to define his exaltedness? why did he appointed angels to create, manage affairs, and capture souls? of course they are working under his command, but they are still helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ) by doing these things on his behalf.

 

how? if i ask you, hey bro can you please pass this? hey bro please deliver this to someone. hey bro, please help me with some load.

obviously we aren't omnipotent (Nauzubillah). we are always in need for help. but despite Allah (عزّ وجلّ) being omnipotent, he appoints Angels to work on his behalf. so its not wrong if we say that.

 

and the companions of Imam Hussain (asws) didn't help Allah (عزّ وجلّ) by just believing, they helped him by defending his religion by sacrificing themselves.

 

we say in ziyarat shohda e karbala,

 

Peace be on (all of) you, O the friends of Allah and His lovers. Peace be on you, O the adorers of Allah sincerely attached to him. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Allah's Messenger. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Amir ul Muminin (asws). Peace be on you, O the helpers of Fatimah (asws), the leader of the women of the worlds. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Aba Muhammad Hassan bin Ali, the sincere friend who always gave good advice. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Abi Abdillah, My father and mother are at your disposal. Verily, you were pure, therefore, the earth, wherein you are buried, has been purified; You attained your end and won good fortune, would that I were with you, so that I could also share the accomplishment with you.

 

 

why are they ansaardeenillahil? (helpers of religion of Allah (عزّ وجلّ)?

i think that sentence isn't present in english translation. i will attach an image

IMG_20200815_131348.jpg

 

1 hour ago, Cool said:

So either you believe your God is omnipotent or you believe He is not hence need your help. An omnipotent being doesn't need anyone's help. 

i would like to quote another thing, no where is mentioned in the entire thread that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is needy for help. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is only asking others for help. if he Might've been needy, then (Nauzubillah) he isn't omnipotent.

Edited by randomly curious
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Allah does not need Imam Ali’s help. Imam Ali needs Allah’s help.

I wouldn’t even know where to start in refuting this wall of nonsense, which resembles the ravings of a demented conspiracy theorist, with all these ‘joining of the dots’ between half-truths and outri

They're our brothers, believers who believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & His Apostle, accepts Ahlul Bayt as Ark of Noah, follows them. So my sincere advise brother to you is that do n

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2 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

just leave it bro. evidence provided by me above are sufficient for the readers.

You have provided no evidence at all. 

9 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

let us come towards the part that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) despite being Al Qadir, he id asking for help from his creation,

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) don't ask for our help. He just gives the command. Like "wa qatilu fe sabeelillah" so when you obey this command and act upon it, it is the LUTF of Allah that He considers it as you are helping Him. Otherwise you have just obeyed the command which is the job of any slave. 

Surah Al-Isra, Verse 20:
كُلًّا نُّمِدُّ هَٰؤُلَاءِ وَهَٰؤُلَاءِ مِنْ عَطَاءِ رَبِّكَ وَمَا كَانَ عَطَاءُ رَبِّكَ مَحْظُورًا

All do We aid-- these as well as those-- out of the bounty of your Lord, and the bounty of your Lord is not confined.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 160:
إِن يَنصُرْكُمُ اللَّهُ فَلَا غَالِبَ لَكُمْ وَإِن يَخْذُلْكُمْ فَمَن ذَا الَّذِي يَنصُرُكُم مِّن بَعْدِهِ وَعَلَى اللَّهِ فَلْيَتَوَكَّلِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ

If Allah assists you, then there is none that can overcome you, and if He forsakes you, who is there then that can assist you after Him? And on Allah should the believers rely.
(English - Shakir)

 

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  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Cool said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) don't ask for our help. He just gives the command. Like "wa qatilu fe sabeelillah" so when you obey this command and act upon it, it is the LUTF of Allah that He considers it as you are helping Him. Otherwise you have just obeyed the command which is the job of any slave. 

your comment turns out to be kinda childesh brother. either ways this was just tafseer by your own will, (which is kufr According to the Narrations) but let me take this further. if you say that helping refers to believing in him. so either ways you've agreed that we've helped him by believing in him. if we haven't helped him, why is he giving us the title? and if we've helped him, does he not remain omnipotent after that? and to support your baseless arguments you are as usual posting random verses from the Holy Qur'an. 

let us say, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) ordered iblees to prostrate to Adam (a). and iblees refused. does Allah (عزّ وجلّ) not remain omnipotent now? ofcourse he does. he (عزّ وجلّ) is taking help from the angels to define his exaltedness. angels are helping him by creating, Handeling affairs,  carrying out his commands etc etc. obviously now if they are doing these things on his behalf these things Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Refers to thier act as his act. so basically ofcourse he is taking help from the angels. similarly if i say hey bro can you deliver this at my friends place? what's this? Help! Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is not needy at all. but if i say creation helps him, it has nothing to do with whether he is omnipotent or not. in whatever matters creation is helping him (as you say by believing in him) if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) cannot do these things on his own (Nauzubillah), then only you can say he is not omnipotent (Nauzubillah). and let us take an example if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can put the universe in an egg. ofcourse he can. but if he does by commanding angels on his behalf, then you cannot say he isn't omnipotent (Nauzubillah). but if there will be a need for him for the angels or whoever then you can say vice versa. and why are you ignoring the fact that According to the Holy Qur'an, there's no power nor strength Except by Allah (عزّ وجلّ)?

17 minutes ago, Cool said:

You have provided no evidence at all. 

you won't be able to see that. readers can. so you don't need to worry Either.

Edited by randomly curious
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  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Cool said:

 

50 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

your comment turns out to be kinda childesh brother. either ways this was just tafseer by your own will, (which is kufr According to the Narrations)

Well, you can remain a believer by assuming that your omnipotent & needless God is in need, specially of your help. What a great emaan that is!

50 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

if you say that helping refers to believing in him. so either ways you've agreed that we've helped him by believing in him

No I have not said that I have helped Him, it is His Lutf that He calls my obedience as I have helped Him. I actually have helped myself. What worth I have that I can even think to helping Him. I am mohtaj of His help all the time. My believing on Him too needs His help & approval (10:100). 

50 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

and let us take an example if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can put the universe in an egg. ofcourse he can. but if he does by commanding angels on his behalf, then you cannot say he isn't omnipotent (Nauzubillah). but if there will be a need for him for the angels or whoever then you can say vice versa. 

Pardon me but you're so stupid that it is beyond my capacity to engage with you in any discussions. 

1 hour ago, Cool said:

it is the LUTF of Allah that He considers it as you are helping Him. Otherwise you have just obeyed the command which is the job of any slave. 

 

54 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

why are you ignoring the fact that According to the Holy Qur'an, there's no power nor strength Except by Allah (عزّ وجلّ)?

It is rather you who are ignoring it not me. 

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  • Haji 2003 changed the title to Muqassirs: asking for help from other than Allah
  • Veteran Member

Salam,

When Imam Hussain was all alone in the final part of Karbala in front of his enemies, when all his men were martyred, he made a call

"Hal min..Is there anyone who will carry on helping me with my mission?"

It that words  "calling for help" is from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Or just purely from Imam Hussain and has nothing to do with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

What happened we (now) didn't answer that call?  Or refused to answer that call?

What happened if we answer it...Labbaiknya Hussain!.

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