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In the Name of God بسم الله

Muqassirs: asking for help from other than Allah

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2 minutes ago, THREE1THREE said:

Did you forget that the world is a test 

i already said. if you wanna discuss according to your own words then PM me later. for now don't try to ruin the thread. if you want to discuss the verses by keeping tafseer by the Infallibles (pbut) along, go ahead.

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Allah does not need Imam Ali’s help. Imam Ali needs Allah’s help.

I wouldn’t even know where to start in refuting this wall of nonsense, which resembles the ravings of a demented conspiracy theorist, with all these ‘joining of the dots’ between half-truths and outri

They're our brothers, believers who believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & His Apostle, accepts Ahlul Bayt as Ark of Noah, follows them. So my sincere advise brother to you is that do n

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10 minutes ago, THREE1THREE said:

bn Abbas said, ‘And say: ‘Lord! Cause me to enter a correct entrance, and 
Cause me to go exit a correct exit, and Make for me from Yourself a (Divine) Authority, a persistent helper [17:80], said, ‘Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Answered the supplication of His Prophet, so He (عزّ وجلّ) Gave him Ali Bin Abu Talib (asws) as a (Divine) Authority to help him (Prophet) against his enemies’.

 

2 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

here Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking RasoolAllah (saws) to provide him a helper.

The prophet is asking help from Allah. He is saying, “O’Lord...”

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

The nonsense people like you come out with does more damage to us than anything the Wahhabis could do.

and people like you do thier jobs easier for them. please do not hesitate. you can tell me if you recieve monthly or annually.

Edited by randomly curious
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1 minute ago, randomly curious said:

the Holy Prophet (saws) is asking a  helper besids Allah (عزّ وجلّ) from Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

The Prophet is asking for help in general. Allah decides the capacity and means to which he grants the help—whether it be a person, a miracle, angels, etc. I see what you’re trying to accomplish here. Take a verse and twist and it turn it to prove your ghuluw.

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

The Prophet is asking for help in general. Allah decides the capacity and means to which he grants the help—whether it be a person, a miracle, angels, etc. I see what you’re trying to accomplish here. Take a verse and twist and it turn it to prove your ghuluw.

kufr kufr kufr:blabla:

 

by the way, just to take you further, i already said Imam Ali (asws) takes the power and strength from Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and no one can help on thier own.

 

there's no power nor strength Except by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) according to the Holy Qur'an.

2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

The Prophet is asking for help in general.

even Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking help from Imam Ali (asws) in general.

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3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

 

even Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking help from Imam Ali (asws) in general.

Haha and my statement was kufr? You might be the most delusional person here.


@AmirioTheMuzzy where you at pal? So you can tolerate this clown just because his condescension is guised under “lover of Ahlulbayt”? Don’t come after me if you you’re not going to be consistent in your condemnation.  

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Haha and my statement was kufr? You might be the most delusional person here.

i decided to cut your logic with a logic. or else you might've kept writting that again and again.

 

11 minutes ago, 786:) said:

where you at pal? So you can tolerate this clown just because his condescension is guised under “lover of Ahlulbayt”? Don’t come after me if you you’re not going to be consistent in your condemnation.  

keep denying the Holy Qur'an. did i write anything by opinion? No. I don't really know what kind of mentality you have. why don't you ask help in general from Allah (عزّ وجلّ) too? why borrow loan from a friend? why asking to pass this and that? there are so many help in general which we ask from each other. why don't you ask help regarding these things directly from Allah (عزّ وجلّ)? 

 

you need to confess before you become exposed. you probably might be the most hard working employee for the wahabis. 

 

wake up, just go on a shia website, claim that you're a shia by birth, start writing against the Ahlulbayt (asws) and start praising thier enemies and killers.

 

isn't this your daily routine?

Edited by randomly curious
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1 minute ago, randomly curious said:

i decided to cut your logic with a logic. or else you might've kept writting that again and again.

 

keep denying the Holy Qur'an. did i write anything by opinion? No. I don't really know what kind of mentality you have. why don't you ask help in general from Allah (عزّ وجلّ) too? why borrow loan from a friend? why asking to pass this and that? there are so many help in general which we ask from each other. why don't you ask help regarding these things directly from Allah (عزّ وجلّ)? 

 

you need to confess before you become exposed. you probably might. be the most hard working employee for the wahabis. 

 

just go on a shia website. claim that you're a shia by birth.

lets begin.

 

isn't this your every day routine?

I don’t need to prove my Shia background to you. It’s a common deflection tactic used by most extremist Shias that are too insecure to simply label anyone disagreeing with them as wahhabis or Nasibi. Someone born Shia can genuinely criticize what they were born into. Never have I claimed I am still your average Shia. I have made myself clear that I don’t find any school of thought in Islam above criticism. I am not like you where I bring Nusayri ideas and claim they are mainstream. I acknowledge my ideas are not mainstream.

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Become a helper of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the same sense as pledging allegiance on the hand of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So one is helping his cause/his Apostle etc by accepting & submitting to it. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the helper of all. Even it is He who gives the "toufeeq" to someone to help His cause.

And yes, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the helper of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as well as Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Therefore remembering that great helper by saying "Ya Ali Madad" is not shirk. 

@randomly curious

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52 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

you modern day shias possess much worse beliefs than the non shias do.

Modern day Shias? We seek to maintain consistency with the Quran, the Prophet (s) and his immaculate progeny, as for you, I'd say the Safavid dynasty :dry:

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3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I don’t need to prove my Shia background to you

your comments signifies that you aren't.

4 minutes ago, 786:) said:

It’s a common deflection tactic used by most extremist Shias that are too insecure to simply label anyone disagreeing with them as wahhabis or Nasibi.

you're disagreeing with me or the verses and the Narrations?

 

5 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Someone born Shia can genuinely criticize what they were born into

now that's a wahabi ideology

 

6 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I am not like you where I bring Nusayri ideas and claim they are mainstream. I acknowledge my ideas are not mainstream.

bringing the verses from the Holy Qur'an makes someone a nusayri? just keep accusing me mate. at the end of the day you'll surely regret for denying.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, 786:) said:

@AmirioTheMuzzy where you at pal? So you can tolerate this clown just because his condescension is guised under “lover of Ahlulbayt”? Don’t come after me if you you’re not going to be consistent in your condemnation.

I don't know what this thread is and I'm not even an active user. The difference is that you're a long time member who consistently made posts that served nothing but agitation.

Edit: I would report @randomly curious for statements of Takfir

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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3 minutes ago, Cool said:

Become a helper of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the same sense as pledging allegiance on the hand of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So one is helping his cause/his Apostle etc by accepting & submitting to it. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the helper of all. Even it is He who gives the "toufeeq" to someone to help His cause.

brother, eventually according to a Narration, even our deeds are  the creation. and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) says in the Holy Qur'an that he is the creator of All things. in whatever way Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking help from Imam Ali (asws), but isn't he? despite being Al Qadir? 

 

5 minutes ago, Cool said:

And yes, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the helper of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as well as Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Therefore remembering that great helper by saying "Ya Ali Madad" is not shirk. 

you need to explain this to the muqassirs around.

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9 minutes ago, 786:) said:

If you consider me a muqassir then I will proudly accept it because your standards are warped to begin with. One has to believe in Tafweed to not be a muqassir in your book.

no one believes in tafid. the Infallibles (asws) are creating, providing, and handeling affairs on behalf of Allah (عزّ وجلّ). and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is commanding them to do it. and they don't wish except for what Allah (عزّ وجلّ) wishes according to surah dahr.

and I've said alot of times in my previous posts that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) doesn't do these things because he is too elevated to do it. and it is inappropriate to for him to work for himself.

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3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

you need to explain this to the muqassirs around.

Every person has his own level of understanding & ma'rifah, why should I call anyone muqassir? 

Muqassir is one who becomes "qasir" in doing something. So I am "qasir" in a sense too because I cannot stop loving Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). I cannot stop accepting them as my Imams & hujjah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on creation. So I am muqassir too.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Cool said:

Muqassir is one who becomes "qasir" in doing something. So I am "qasir" in a sense too because I cannot stop loving Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). I cannot stop accepting them as my Imams & hujjah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on creation. So I am muqassir too.

these people have become "qasir" in  opposite to what you do i.e reduce the status of Ahlulbayt (asws).

these people cannot stop reducing the status of Ahlulbayt (asws). despite giving them verses from the Holy Qur'an.

Edited by randomly curious
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They're our brothers, believers who believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & His Apostle, accepts Ahlul Bayt as Ark of Noah, follows them.

So my sincere advise brother to you is that do not reject them, accept them for the sake of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as your brothers. They are not the nawasibs.

 

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1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

the Holy Prophet (saws) is asking a  helper besids Allah (عزّ وجلّ) from Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

You said,

1 hour ago, THREE1THREE said:
  1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

here Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking RasoolAllah (saws) to provide him a helper.

Hence why I corrected you.

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3 minutes ago, Cool said:

They're our brothers, believers who believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & His Apostle, accepts Ahlul Bayt as Ark of Noah, follows them.

yeah, but the problem is they cannot consume smallest thing like "Ya Ali Adrikni" I don't think with this belief i can call them my brothers for denying it despite proven from the Holy Qur'an.

 

5 minutes ago, Cool said:

So my sincere advise brother to you is that do not reject them, accept them for the sake of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as your brothers. They are not the nawasibs.

 

brother, why don't you approach them for accepting Ya Ali Adrikni? 

if they do so, everything will be sorted out. there will be no more discussion required.

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6 minutes ago, THREE1THREE said:

You said,

Hence why I corrected you.

i apologize. i wasn't aware about it at that time.

 

but the fact will remain Alive i.e you despite doing tafseer by yoir own will cannot deny that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking help from Imam Ali (asws). for whatever cause that be, eventual conclusion will be what i claimed.

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3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

brother, why don't you approach them for accepting Ya Ali Adrikni? 

if they do so, everything will be sorted out. there will be no more discussion required.

Most of them knew my point of view. They have every right to disagree with me on any point. It is not obligatory on them. Neither saying the phrase "Ya Ali Adrikni" or believing on it is obligatory. The only thing worthy of being praised is the love for Imams & following them with true heart & soul. 

Don't make it a battle ground brother. You are young and energetic, that's why you are trying to force your opinion on others. Patience is your best tool at the moment. 

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4 minutes ago, Cool said:

It is not obligatory on them. Neither saying the phrase "Ya Ali Adrikni" or believing on it is obligatory.

no denial brother. but saying that asking help from someone other than Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is shirk will lead them to kufr. how? by denying the verses of the Holy Qur'an. 

 

6 minutes ago, Cool said:

Don't make it a battle ground brother. You are young and energetic, that's why you are trying to force your opinion on others. Patience is your best tool at the moment. 

all i am asking them is to accept the verses of the Holy Qur'an brother. when they run out of refrences they start doing Personal attacks. then why won't i have a right to retaliate?

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4 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

but saying that asking help from someone other than Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is shirk will lead them to kufr. how?

No, principally it is correct. Asking help from someone other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is indeed shirk. 

Our believe is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is one from the "junood" of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Don't you believe that he is wajhullah, aynullah, yadullah, hablillah etc? He is not Allah but at the same time, we cannot separate him from Allah as he is the waliullah. 

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2 minutes ago, Cool said:

No, principally it is correct. Asking help from someone other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is indeed shirk. 

then why is Allah (عزّ وجلّ) asking help from him? if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can ask help from him, his creation can't? you just choose the Hypocrisy card brother. you want to keep a feet here and then you desire to keep a feet there too. but at the end of the day, there's no grey area outhere. either ways you'll need put both feet at the same place. there are only two paths. you need to choose one and be steadfast upon it.

 

5 minutes ago, Cool said:

Our believe is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is one from the "junood" of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Don't you believe that he is wajhullah, aynullah, yadullah, hablillah etc? He is not Allah but at the same time, we cannot separate him from Allah as he is the waliullah. 

these things has nothing to do with it brother. that's all just metaphorical at the end of the day.

 

but i am assured you will still insist on this, so please do read the entire verse. eesaa (a) is not yadullah nor his disciples were even close to something like that. still they said "we are helpers of Allah (عزّ وجلّ)".

 

O you those who believe! Become helpers of Allah, just as Isa Ibn Maryam (a) said to the disciples: ‘Who are my helpers to Allah?’ The disciples said, ‘We are helpers of Allah!’ Then a party from the Children of Israel believed, and a party committed Kufr, so We Aided those who believed against their enemies, and they became prevalent [61:14]

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10 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

you just choose the Hypocrisy card brother. you want to keep a feet here and then you desire to keep a feet there too. but at the end of the day, there's no grey area outhere. either ways you'll need put both feet at the same place. there are only two paths. you need to choose one and be steadfast upon it.

Very sad indeed but appologies granted in advance.

11 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

then why is Allah (عزّ وجلّ) asking help from him? if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can ask help from him, his creation can't?

The same verse and the similar verses can help you to understand what is meant by being the helper of Allah:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 52:
فَلَمَّا أَحَسَّ عِيسَىٰ مِنْهُمُ الْكُفْرَ قَالَ مَنْ أَنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنصَارُ اللَّهِ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ

But when Isa perceived unbelief on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones.
(English - Shakir)

Surah As-Saff, Verse 14:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا كُونُوا أَنصَارَ اللَّهِ كَمَا قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ لِلْحَوَارِيِّينَ مَنْ أَنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنصَارُ اللَّهِ فَآمَنَت طَّائِفَةٌ مِّن بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَكَفَرَت طَّائِفَةٌ فَأَيَّدْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا عَلَىٰ عَدُوِّهِمْ فَأَصْبَحُوا ظَاهِرِينَ

O you who believe! be helpers (in the cause) of Allah, as~ Isa son of Marium said to (his) disciples: Who are my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the cause) of Allah. So a party of the children of Israel believed and another party disbelieved; then We aided those who believed against their enemy, and they became uppermost.
(English - Shakir)

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not "mohtaj" He is omnipotent. He is the helper of everyone. You can become nasir of Allah by simply truly accepting Him as your Lord & by submitting truly to His commands. Like the ashab of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) did in Karbala. They not only become ansarallah but also ansar of ahlul bayt (عليه السلام)

Surah Muhammad, Verse 7:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِن تَنصُرُوا اللَّهَ يَنصُرْكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتْ أَقْدَامَكُمْ

O you who believe! if you help (the cause of) Allah, He will help you and make firm your feet.
(English - Shakir)

 

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2 minutes ago, Cool said:

The same verse and the similar verses can help you to understand what is meant by being the helper of Allah:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 52:
فَلَمَّا أَحَسَّ عِيسَىٰ مِنْهُمُ الْكُفْرَ قَالَ مَنْ أَنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنصَارُ اللَّهِ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ

But when Isa perceived unbelief on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones.
(English - Shakir)

 

well, for now you've been trapped in your own noose and loop brother. how?

 

37 minutes ago, Cool said:

No, principally it is correct. Asking help from someone other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is indeed shirk. 

you just claimed asking help from someone other than Allah (عزّ وجلّ) turns out to be shirk.

 

4 minutes ago, Cool said:

You can become nasir of Allah by simply truly accepting Him as your Lord & by submitting truly to His commands. Like the ashab of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) did in Karbala. They not only become ansarallah but also ansar of ahlul bayt (عليه السلام)

 

also you.

 

4 minutes ago, Cool said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not "mohtaj" He is omnipotent. He is the helper of everyone.

no one denies that. I've written many times that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is Al Qadir. and there's no power nor strength Except by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) according to the Holy Qur'an.

 

so basically you're claiming Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can ask for help from his creation but his creation cannot ask help from his creation? and bro now don't try to twist by saying we are helping by submitting and stuff. in any aspect, isn't Allah (عزّ وجلّ) being helped by his creation? despite he is Al Qadir?

 

and yeah, you better prepare to face the "ghali" taunts. these people weren't willing to accept that Imam Ali (asws) is helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ), you've brought the argument to we're helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ) too.

9 minutes ago, Cool said:

O you who believe! if you help (the cause of) Allah, He will help you and make firm your feet.
(English - Shakir)

 

by any way, arent we helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ)? and by the way this verse Refers to Imam Ali (asws).

 

now you will not be able to say that yes Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can ask for help from his creation but his creation can't.

 

11 minutes ago, Cool said:

O you who believe! be helpers (in the cause) of Allah, as~ Isa son of Marium said to (his) disciples: Who are my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the cause) of Allah. So a party of the children of Israel believed and another party disbelieved; then We aided those who believed against their enemy, and they became uppermost.
(English - Shakir)

because you yourself posted this. and eesaa (a) did asked his disciples to help him.

 

conclusion, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is asking help from his creation. eesaa (a) being a creation asked help from the creation besides Allah (عزّ وجلّ). 

 

 

 

final conclusion, Asking Help from the master of eesaa (a) i.e Imam Ali (asws) isn't shirk.

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3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

so basically you're claiming Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can ask for help from his creation but his creation cannot ask help from his creation? and bro now don't try to twist by saying we are helping by submitting and stuff. in any aspect, isn't Allah (عزّ وجلّ) being helped by his creation? despite he is Al Qadir?

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is simply asking us to believe on Him & His Apostle. It is the LUTF of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that He is giving us the title "helper" and is viewing our act of believing & submitting to Him as that. 

So either you believe your God is omnipotent or you believe He is not hence need your help. An omnipotent being doesn't need anyone's help. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Cool said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is simply asking us to believe on Him & His Apostle. It is the LUTF of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that He is giving us the title "helper" and is viewing our act of believing & submitting to Him as that. 

So either you believe your God is omnipotent or you believe He is not hence need your help. An omnipotent being doesn't need anyone's help. 

brother you first need to acknowledge that you were wrong in what you said. i.e asking help from someone other than Allah (عزّ وجلّ) becomes shirk.

 

you cannot apply the same concept everywhere brother. and you're only doing tafseer by your own will.

 

at the time of previous prophets (a) people only needed to believe in them and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) that's all.

 

here in this verse, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly says someone is helping him and his rasool. and obviously you cannot apply the criteria of believing here. Imam Ali (asws) is clearly helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and his rasool way after believing in him.

 

We had Sent Our Rasools with the clear proofs, and We sent down the Book and the Scale with them, in order for them to establish justice with the people. And We Sent down the iron wherein is severe violence and benefits for the people, and for Allah to Know who helps Him and His Rasool in the secret. Surely Allah is Strong, Mighty [57:25]


 

as for being omnipotent, with whose powers is Imam Ali (asws) helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ)? his own? despite being omnipotent, why does Allah (عزّ وجلّ) takes help from the angels to define his exaltedness? why did he appointed angels to create, manage affairs, and capture souls? of course they are working under his command, but they are still helping Allah (عزّ وجلّ) by doing these things on his behalf.

 

how? if i ask you, hey bro can you please pass this? hey bro please deliver this to someone. hey bro, please help me with some load.

obviously we aren't omnipotent (Nauzubillah). we are always in need for help. but despite Allah (عزّ وجلّ) being omnipotent, he appoints Angels to work on his behalf. so its not wrong if we say that.

 

and the companions of Imam Hussain (asws) didn't help Allah (عزّ وجلّ) by just believing, they helped him by defending his religion by sacrificing themselves.

 

we say in ziyarat shohda e karbala,

 

Peace be on (all of) you, O the friends of Allah and His lovers. Peace be on you, O the adorers of Allah sincerely attached to him. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Allah's Messenger. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Amir ul Muminin (asws). Peace be on you, O the helpers of Fatimah (asws), the leader of the women of the worlds. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Aba Muhammad Hassan bin Ali, the sincere friend who always gave good advice. Peace be on you, O the helpers of Abi Abdillah, My father and mother are at your disposal. Verily, you were pure, therefore, the earth, wherein you are buried, has been purified; You attained your end and won good fortune, would that I were with you, so that I could also share the accomplishment with you.

 

 

why are they ansaardeenillahil? (helpers of religion of Allah (عزّ وجلّ)?

i think that sentence isn't present in english translation. i will attach an image

IMG_20200815_131348.jpg

Edited by randomly curious
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  • Veteran Member

Salam...

How to make laymen to understand a topic like this.

Let make a simple scenario and perhaps we may understand what @randomly curiousis try to explain.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has created 14 super Robots that He Himself has total control on these super Robots.  He programed and energize these super Robots.  These super Robots are in total subservient to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and has no power on their own. These Super Robots will never malfunction.  These Super Robots have no free wills of their own.  What they perform are all Wills of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  These Super Robots are also called Hand, Face, and Pure Slaves.  These Super Robots were created first in all creations.

These super Robots were sent down to interface with inferior or substandard robots that were created later and are regularly malfunctions and need updates in programming.

 And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) commanded all robots that He created to obey Him.  Some from substandard robots have become malfunctioned for some reasons and doing damages and not following standard procedures.

Then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said to malfunctioned robots... "I will fix you by calling one of my Super Robot to fix the issue regarding the malfunctions".  

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created Super Robots who He Himself programmed and powered it.  These Super Robots are just means...Hand, Face, Helper of Allahb (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

It that wrong that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is calling upon His Hand, His Face, His Names, and His Super Robots to help Him. After all His Hand, Face  Names and Super Robots are part of His Wills and not separate from Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  Except these Super Robots are not equal to Him, because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Creator and never created.  The rest are all created.

Maybe some current substandard robots need new and updated programs to understand how Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Super Robots operate in the universe.  This is what i believe @randomly curiousis trying express.  

Personally, i believe he is not trying to lead us to shirk.  I can easily understood his explanations.

I am not sure that i making sense.  But trying to understand the high level issue that Salman knows and Abu Zarr cannot.  And if Abu Zarr try to understand Salman, he may become kafir.  Ahlulbayt is full of issues that are reserved to few people.

 

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24 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

brother you first need to acknowledge that you were wrong in what you said. i.e asking help from someone other than Allah (عزّ وجلّ) becomes shirk.

No, I am not wrong in that.  It all depends what you believe something as "other than Allah". 

And dont take me out of context.

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  • Haji 2003 changed the title to Muqassirs: asking for help from other than Allah

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