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In the Name of God بسم الله

Israel & UAE, Bahrain peace agreement

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3 hours ago, Diaz said:

Lol, Bahrain and Israel made a peace agreement as well. I’m sad seeing how these countries are trying to whip Palestinian from the map. 

Believe me, I’m no fan of either the UAE or Bahrain governments, but establishing diplomatic relations with Israel is a good thing. It seems Sudan, Oman or Morocco will be the next to follow suit. I believe my own motherland (Pakistan) should seriously consider normalizing relations with Israel. There may be a huge outburst and reaction by the public, whipped up by the Mullas, but it will soon subside and be accepted, however grudgingly, by them.

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I hate the UAE, but peace agreements and normalization with the State of Israel is a good thing. My own country (Pakistan) should follow suit.

I think we should start discussing a UAE boycott. Any Arab or Muslim country who makes formal relations with Israel is a traitor to Islam and to their own people. Anyone, or any group who forcibly exp

Prime Minister Netanyahu already visited Oman in 2018, and they already have de facto relations with Israel. I believe, in general, this is a good trend and more Muslim countries should recognize

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2 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Believe me, I’m no fan of either the UAE or Bahrain governments, but establishing diplomatic relations with Israel is a good thing. It seems Sudan, Oman or Morocco will be the next to follow suit. I believe my own motherland (Pakistan) should seriously consider normalizing relations with Israel. There may be a huge outburst and reaction by the public, whipped up by the Mullas, but it will soon subside and be accepted, however grudgingly, by them.

And why do you think it’s a good thing?

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3 minutes ago, Diaz said:

And why do you think it’s a good thing?

It’s good for peace, security, stability and economic development of the Middle East. There are many other Muslim countries that have normalized relations with Israel, including Egypt and Jordan, but also Turkey (although relations have cooled under Erdogan), Azerbaijan, the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, Bosnia and Albania. Our only issue with Israel is their treatment of Palestinians, which is generally bad, but not to the extent the media of Muslim and Arab world has portrayed it. Compared to the treatment of Muslims in China, India, Burma, Angola, and even parts of Europe, Israel is a paradise for its Muslim citizens. The treatment of Palestinians may be bad, but compared to how the Arab regimes themselves treat their own citizens, the Palestinians are pretty fortunate.

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11 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

It’s good for peace, security, stability and economic development of the Middle East. There are many other Muslim countries that have normalized relations with Israel, including Egypt and Jordan, but also Turkey (although relations have cooled under Erdogan), Azerbaijan, the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, Bosnia and Albania. Our only issue with Israel is their treatment of Palestinians, which is generally bad, but not to the extent the media of Muslim and Arab world has portrayed it. Compared to the treatment of Muslims in China, India, Burma, Angola, and even parts of Europe, Israel is a paradise for its Muslim citizens. The treatment of Palestinians may be bad, but compared to how the Arab regimes themselves treat their own citizens, the Palestinians are pretty fortunate.

????? if anything, it is being underplayed how much israelis are abusing and killing palestinians... funny how sunni countries are turning on their own sunni brethren while the shia dominant countries, ex. iran/iraq, are israels worst enemies. 

image.png.c5843fe83f3ed6b8136da2af1bd06d7d.png

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  • Haji 2003 changed the title to Israel & UAE, Bahrain peace agreement
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Afneil is a well known UK journalist who represents various right-wing interests. He's giving the official Trump/Netanyahu line. Let's assume that the Pals are left out to hang. It's been game over for them for several years now.

The question is what happens next.

Will we have equitable and fair political and business dealings between the nations of the New Israeli Commonwealth? If we do, then what have been considered to be extremist Zionists would be proven to have been right all along.

On the other hand if all we get is a re-run of the subjugation of the Pals, but this time across a much bigger swathe of the Middle East - it's not going to have a happy ending. I think this is the more likely outcome simply on account of the Israelis having won so far without having to make any compromises. Why should they feel the need to do so in the future?

As I have said for many years on this forum, I see many parallels between the British experience in India and the Zionist project. Both groups started with very modest intentions, and Israel is following a similar trajectory in terms of geographic expansion and political arm-twisting. I think it will dominate the region in due course.

But in the end the British Empire in India failed because it could not reconcile the overlordship of hundreds of millions of people by a minority. And that's my long term view of where this will go.

 

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12 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

As I have said for many years on this forum, I see many parallels between the British experience in India and the Zionist project. Both groups started with very modest intentions, and Israel is following a similar trajectory in terms of geographic expansion and political arm-twisting. I think it will dominate the region in due course.

But in the end the British Empire in India failed because it could not reconcile the overlordship of hundreds of millions of people by a minority. And that's my long term view of where this will go.

Israel has no intention to dominate or rule over the Middle East in the way the British ruled India. Their main interest since day one has been the security and acceptance of their State by their immediate and regional neighbors. At present, Israel faces only a single major threat to its national security – Iran. It is natural for Israel to make common cause with those Arab states which are likewise jeopardized by Iran’s ambitions and foreign policy in the region.

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12 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Israel has no intention to dominate or rule over the Middle East in the way the British ruled India.

The reason why I think that the comparison with the British in India is apt is because the British also did not have imperial aims (at least at the start).

Remember the British only came to India to trade and it was the actions of the perfidious Indians which 'forced' the British into expanding their ambitions and of course some of their expansion was only to 'protect' friendly princely states.

So of course the Israeli expansion will never be along the lines of the Mongol hordes, it will only ever be pro-actively defensive, and given recent developments to protect the interests of those states (and leaders) with whom it has alliances. 

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15 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

So of course the Israeli expansion will never be along the lines of the Mongol hordes, it will only ever be pro-actively defensive, and given recent developments to protect the interests of those states (and leaders) with whom it has alliances. 

Indeed, Israel is "pro-actively defensive". It's strange people are accusing Israel of expansionism and colonization, when Iran surely has expansionist aims in the Middle East. It is actively attempting to transform its immediate neighbors into satellite states.

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A positive development

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/09/facing-normalisation-threat-palestinians-respond-unity-200914175752492.html

Fatah, Hamas and other factions come together after the 'stab in the back' by Arab states over Israel deals.

 

Palestine UAE-Israel deal protest AP photo

Palestinians shoes are placed on pictures of US President Donald Trump, Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during a protest [Majdi Mohammed/Reuters]

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:45 PM, Cherub786 said:

It’s good for peace, security, stability and economic development of the Middle East. There are many other Muslim countries that have normalized relations with Israel, including Egypt and Jordan, but also Turkey (although relations have cooled under Erdogan), Azerbaijan, the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, Bosnia and Albania. Our only issue with Israel is their treatment of Palestinians, which is generally bad, but not to the extent the media of Muslim and Arab world has portrayed it. Compared to the treatment of Muslims in China, India, Burma, Angola, and even parts of Europe, Israel is a paradise for its Muslim citizens. The treatment of Palestinians may be bad, but compared to how the Arab regimes themselves treat their own citizens, the Palestinians are pretty fortunate.

This is not peace. This is literally giving more power to Israel that does not give one inch about Palestinians. Israel government have already stolen so many settlement in Palestine  and they will continue it in  future with Arabs bros because Arabs bros does not wanna lose the money and power they got from those deals. If you think losing your house and getting killed for defending your property is not bad? Cmone man. 

 

Yeah Im sure Arabs  are living in paradise in Israel. Sound like typical middle eastern racist country.

"The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority's awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation"

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6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Indeed, Israel is "pro-actively defensive". It's strange people are accusing Israel of expansionism and colonization, when Iran surely has expansionist aims in the Middle East. It is actively attempting to transform its immediate neighbors into satellite states.

 Whataboutism  because other are doing bad... So let Israel  also do bad thing! We are now equal! . Im anti Iran but Iran Power in Iraq are structured via Political parties. We can actually fight Iran influence  but Palestinians have no chance of doing that in their homeland. 

 

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12 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Fatah, Hamas and other factions come together after the 'stab in the back' by Arab states over Israel deals.

Since Arafat died (2004) some sixteen years ago, 84 year old Mahmoud Abbas (called “donkey” by his own people) has been president of the Palestinians, and who knows how much longer he will remain their president. This is why I said its futile to have an independent Palestinian state, it will be just another Arab dictatorship like Syria and Egypt.

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11 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Since Arafat died (2004) some sixteen years ago, 84 year old Mahmoud Abbas (called “donkey” by his own people) has been president of the Palestinians, and who knows how much longer he will remain their president. This is why I said it’s futile to have an independent Palestinian state, it will be just another Arab dictatorship like Syria and Egypt.

It’s pretty clear that you prefer the Wahhabi–Salafi Muslim Brotherhood to those “evil” secularists, Shias, and “commies,” isn’t it? Ironically, I dislike the IRI because, like Turkey, Qatar, and even the KSA, it promotes the MB, especially Hamas, against secular nationalism and socialism, under the pretext of Islamic “unity,” even though the MB massacres religious and ethnic minorities (see Libya, Syria, Yemen, et al.) as well as secular nationalists and Marxists. Unsurprisingly, the U.S., Israel, the “Sunni” Wahhabi–Salafi regimes, and the IRI alike have all promoted Hamas against the PLO/Fatah, while coopting the latter’s leaders since the days of Arafat, to the detriment of the PFLP-fronted Rejectionist Front, which was predominantly socialist and Marxist in orientation. In the 1970s only the PFLP-led Rejectionists opposed the imperialists’ “two-state ‘solution’,” whereas the collaborationist PLO/Fatah and the Masonic MB Islamists backed it via divide-and-rule tactics. (The PLO/Fatah backed the treasonous, tainted, Western-approved Oslo Accords, while Hamas promoted indiscriminate Jew-hatred instead of principled anti-Zionism. Hamas also backed un-Islamic “suicide” tactics.) I’m not sure as to why you hate the IRI so much, since in my view the IRI often cooperates with the West, albeit covertly and behind the scenes, to the detriment of anti-imperialist movements. For example, the IRI has often spoken against Western and Zionist aggression, but in practice has done very little to help anti-imperialist movements, including Ansar Allah in Yemen, and backed the Western-spawned, MB-led “Arab Spring” covert operations against Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya, for instance. The IRI has also let the West occupy northeastern Syria and issued empty threats against Israel but done nothing to help ordinary people resist imperialism. The IRI, for the most part, has not questioned the official version of 9/11 (Ahmadinejad was the lone exception) and exaggerates its defensive “capabilities” against NATO’s sophisticated electronic and electromagnetic capabilities, to not mention Western tactical “mini-nukes.” All this makes the West’s anti-IRI propaganda, and the IRI’s anti-Western “line,” a real charade.

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12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

A couple hours after this report was filed/online, according to reports rockets were fired from Gaza as the agreement was being signed.

Any time Muslims unite around an issue of Haqq it is a good thing. The rockets are another issue, which would probably be more appropriate to be discussed in another thread. 

BTW, I agree with others that the arms deal is definitely part of it, but not all of it. In the US, the main way right wing politicians (and some left wing politicians) get paid $$$ the big bucks is by kickbacks from US military contractors and weapons manufacturers. This $$ is contingent on these politicians setting up contracts for this equipment, services which are sold to the dumb dictators at hugely inflated prices. The dictators get their cut of the 'extra' and so do the corrupt politicians who set it up. The people of the country get nothing except weapons which will soon be outdated and probably (hopefully) never used that they have to pay for at highly inflated prices thru their taxes. This scheme goes by different names, in the US it has been called the 'Military Industrial Complex'. Anyway, gulf countries get ready to get your taxes raised to pay for this *rap. 

In order to justify these sales, the US politicians and the dumb dictators need to 'cook up' an enemy, a threat so they can tell the people 'see, we need to spend billions of dollars of your money on weapons because of x'. Right now, this enemy is Iran. Whatever you think about Iran, Iran has never attacked it's neighbors offensively. They only attacked Iraq after a war was launched against them. So to the people in the gulf, I would say even if you hate Iran, you should care about your own wallet, which will soon be much slimmer. 

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12 minutes ago, Northwest said:

It’s pretty clear that you prefer the Wahhabi–Salafi Muslim Brotherhood to those “evil” secularists, Shias, and “commies,” isn’t it?

Yes, I do prefer the MB over Communists. But that doesn’t mean I like the MB, I oppose them ideologically and politically too. It’s just that Communists and other radical Leftists are the worst of the worst.

BTW, am I to assume you personally lean toward Marxism?

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 Ironically, I dislike the IRI because, like Turkey, Qatar, and even the KSA, it promotes the MB, especially Hamas, against secular nationalism and socialism, under the pretext of Islamic “unity,” even though the MB massacres religious and ethnic minorities (see Libya, Syria, Yemen, et al.) as well as secular nationalists and Marxists.

The truth is, secular nationalists and Communists have no leg to stand on in talking about massacres. These are the people that have massacred millions upon millions just in the previous century. What is a massacre of some hundreds or even thousands by Islamist fanatics and Jihadists in comparison to that? Even today, its the Baathist regime of Syria that massacred its own people, and uses the pretext of “we’re fighting Wahhabis and Jihadists”, while killing women and children.

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Unsurprisingly, the U.S., Israel, the “Sunni” Wahhabi–Salafi regimes, and the IRI alike have all promoted Hamas against the PLO/Fatah, while coopting the latter’s leaders since the days of Arafat,

Hamas was a promising alternative to PLO terrorism, but they made the same blunder that you rightly criticize them for. This is why I’m ideologically opposed to MB and political Islamism, although as I said before, they are much more palpable than Communists, radical Leftists, and secular fascists.

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the PFLP-fronted Rejectionist Front, which was predominantly socialist and Marxist in orientation. In the 1970s only the PFLP-led Rejectionists opposed the imperialists’ “two-state ‘solution’,” whereas the collaborationist PLO/Fatah and the Masonic MB Islamists backed it via divide-and-rule tactics. 

See, we are just too ideologically at odds with each other to even see eye to eye. You are a Marxist secularist anti-imperialist, whereas I hate Marxism, I am a conservative, fundamentalist Muslim, and I prefer Western imperialism. We’re literally on the polar opposite ends of the spectrum.

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 I’m not sure as to why you hate the IRI so much, since in my view the IRI often cooperates with the West, albeit covertly and behind the scenes, to the detriment of anti-imperialist movements.

I believe the IRI uses this anti-imperialist, anti-West rhetoric to gain credibility on the “Muslim street”. But the truth is, the IRI is seriously against the West because of its own national and economic interests. I am 100% pro-West, pro-America, so that’s why I don’t like Iran. I also am aware of the fact that in the beginning of the revolution, during Khomeini’s tenure, there was a squandered opportunity to bring Iran over to the pro-West camp and direct its energies against the USSR instead. Even Ahmadinijed during the Revolution opposed the US embassy takeover because he said it will benefit the Soviets and their Leftist agents in Iran. I don’t know why they completely transformed into an anti-West regime when that was never necessary. Iran is a puzzle to me, because I don’t understand their language, and because they are a very insular country that censors their internal political reality to the rest of the world. Thus, I’m not familiar with the intricate details of Iran’s real agenda and geopolitical strategy. I just judge by what is apparent which is that Iran is clearly an anti-West regime that is also responsible for spreading sectarianism in the Middle East.

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33 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

that the arms deal

l had to look this up.

What l found after a quick-search is Kushner said arms details "will be hashed out later" and five days ago (the 11th ?) a jet sale to Bahrain was halted.

For the UAE, the F-35 sale "raised fears in lsraeI" yesterday (the 15th), while in late May, the Trump administration cleared the way to sell the UAE "thousands" of armored vehicles. Previously, the UAE transfered armor to Yemen without permission.

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21 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Even Ahmadinijed during the Revolution opposed the US embassy takeover because he said it will benefit the Soviets and their Leftist agents in Iran.

Salam was nobody at that time even nobody knew him during Iran-Iraq war that only proof for his participating in war is just a blurry Image of him that cropped  & enlarged  by his fans & he wasn't  an Important figure until he became mayor  of Tehran & then president of Iran that It proved he is just a puppet in hand of the  specific Hujjatiah grouplet  that their agenda is spreading  injustice & corruption  in earth for hastening  reappeance  of Imam Mahdi (aj) even by cooperating  with any group like Marxists & Zionists & tyrant butchers like MB of KSA but they are hiding themselves behind anti marxist or anti zionists  slogans  to fool simpleton people .

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam was nobody at that time even nobody knew him during Iran-Iraq war that only proof for his participating in war is just a blurry Image of him that cropped  & enlarged  by his fans & he wasn't  an Important figure until he became mayor  of Tehran & then president of Iran that It proved he is just a puppet in hand of the  specific Hujjatiah grouplet  that their agenda is spreading  injustice & corruption  in earth for hastening  reappeance  of Imam Mahdi (aj) even by cooperating  with any group like Marxists & Zionists & tyrant butchers like MB of KSA but they are hiding themselves behind anti marxist or anti zionists  slogans  to fool simpleton people .

Interesting perspective.

l read where Ahmadinejad was a popular governor of West Azerbaijan, popular enough to narrowly beat his Azeri opponent in the presidential election and narrowly lose in East Azerbaijan. l only read a couple of things related to the "grouplet", but l have not heard that they 'spread' machinations to hasten the activation of the lmam. We have evilgelicals that do the same --only for them it is their witchdoctor in colored glass.

Thanks Bro.

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On 9/11/2020 at 7:45 PM, Cherub786 said:

The treatment of Palestinians may be bad, but compared to how the Arab regimes themselves treat their own citizens, the Palestinians are pretty fortunate.

Tu quoque.

I support resistance in "the Arab regimes" (It's unclear which ones you're referring to specifically, and people who have limited knowledge about the Mideast tend to make blanket statements like these) that you might be referring to. If you support the Palestinian resistance, you should be ideologically consistent and support resistance in Bahrain, Awamiyah, Yemen, etc as well.

Might is right is a foolish concept, but it's an idea that the Western empires have used to subjugate others. The solution to Might is Right philosophy, aka crusader tactics, is to use Muslim tactics (Eye for an eye). The eye for an eye concept is very good for highlighting inequality.

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1 hour ago, MuhammadFreeman said:

Tu quoque.

I support resistance in "the Arab regimes" (It's unclear which ones you're referring to specifically, and people who have limited knowledge about the Mideast tend to make blanket statements like these) that you might be referring to. If you support the Palestinian resistance, you should be ideologically consistent and support resistance in Bahrain, Awamiyah, Yemen, etc as well.

Might is right is a foolish concept, but it's an idea that the Western empires have used to subjugate others. The solution to Might is Right philosophy, aka crusader tactics, is to use Muslim tactics (Eye for an eye). The eye for an eye concept is very good for highlighting inequality.

Since I don’t support any resistance movement, I am consistent in not supporting the Palestinians either.

If you were consistent, you would also support the resistance to Assad in Syria.

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20 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Since I don’t support any resistance movement, I am consistent in not supporting the Palestinians either.

If you were consistent, you would also support the resistance to Assad in Syria.

Depends on the form of resistance. I don't think the goal should be to get Assad out by any means necessary, since Western tactics entail funding mercenaries who behead Shias and rape Yazidi women. I think Assad should be removed the same way he was brought in, through the ballot.

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22 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Since I don’t support any resistance movement, I am consistent in not supporting the Palestinians either.

But surely you must support the Irgun & Lehi, albeit retrospectively.

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2 hours ago, MuhammadFreeman said:

since Western tactics entail funding mercenaries who behead Shias and rape Yazidi women

Those have never been Western tactics. “Islamic State” was sent in to sabotage the FSA led uprising, it was a gift for Assad and the Baathists. Baathists and Takfiri Kharijites have been strange bedfellows since the US liberated Iraq.

Also, Yazidis are devil worshipers, I don’t know why you sympathize with them.

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2 hours ago, Hassu93 said:

You're legit defending rape here ?

No sir, but I didn’t see or hear any rape. Why should I believe a bunch of devil worshipers? Did you see Trump ask a Yazidi woman why she was awarded the Nobel peace prize, and she couldn’t even answer?

 

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Sheikh Isa Qassim: Normalization of relations with Zionist regime evil act

Bahraini Scholars Condemn Normalization Deal with Israel

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All the ruling Arab regimes that have tried or are trying to normalize relations with the Zionist regime know very well that this compromise is against the will of the divine law and the will of the nations of the Islamic Ummah and this is as fulfilling the will of the United States and Israel regime, while they are aware of its great losses for this Ummah and of the enmity of Israel regime and the United States with the Ummah, said Sheikh Isa Qassim.

The ruling regimes are never willing to do justice to the nations and want to exercise their dominion fully and seize every privilege and opportunity, he added.

They see submission to the United States and Israel, which is contrary to the interests of the Muslim Ummah and the religion of Islam, as a way to further dominate and oppress nations, he noted.

https://en.abna24.com/news//sheikh-isa-qassim-normalization-of-relations-with-zionist-regime-evil-act_1070172.html

https://en.abna24.com/news//bahraini-scholars-condemn-normalization-deal-with-israel_1071360.html

Bahrainis protest normalization of relations with Israel

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The participants held up Palestinian flags and banners, expressing outrage at the normalization, and set fire to Israeli flags.

Former lawmaker Ali al-Aswad, who had resigned in 2011 in response to the government's crackdown on peaceful protesters, called it a "black day in the history of Bahrain."

"You will be reminded by history for your support [of] colonialism and colonization," he said.

Maryam al-Khawaja, daughter of prominent imprisoned human rights activist Abdulhadi al-Khawaja, also said it was Bahrain’s people that mattered, and that the diplomatic maneuver solely reflected the regime’s standpoint.

Security forces fanned throughout the island in light of a standing ban prohibiting demonstrations.

The Persian Gulf nation has been facing a sweeping crackdown since 2011, when people began to rise en masse against the ruling Al Khalifah family’s discriminatory policies against and suppression of the majority Shia population.

Dozens have been killed in the state-authorized clampdown, and hundreds more arrested.
 

https://en.abna24.com/news//bahrainis-protest-normalization-of-relations-with-israel_1070119.html

Al-Wefaq:

Agreement between tyrannical regime in Bahrain, Israel total betrayal of Islam, Arabism

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The association added: “Normalization with the Zionist entity is a blatant contradiction with the will of the Bahraini people and a coup against its principled creed in rejecting the occupation of Palestine, and the Bahraini people are unanimous in all its spectrums to adhere to Palestine.”

The Bahraini Al-Wefaq Society stressed, in the conclusion of its statement, that “the Bahraini regime does not have the legitimacy to conclude an agreement with the Zionists, and the usurper Zionist entity is an illegal entity.” And she emphasized that “the agreement between them has no legitimacy.”

 

https://en.abna24.com/news//agreement-between-tyrannical-regime-in-bahrain-israel-total-betrayal-of-islam-arabism_1069803.html

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Iran's Ghalibaf: Betrayers to Palestinian cause complicit in Zionists' crimes

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In a tweet, Iranian Parliament Speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf reacted to the compromise agreement between some Arab countries in the region and the Zionist regime.

"The betrayers to the Palestinian cause are complicit in all the crimes of the Zionist regime," he wrote, adding, "They kiss the hand of the oppressor eagerly and scratch on the face of the oppressed."

"They marked the second Nakba Day," Ghalibaf noted.

"There will be no solution to the Palestine's issue without the participation of the Palestinian people," he stressed.

https://en.abna24.com/news//irans-ghalibaf-betrayers-to-palestinian-cause-complicit-in-zionists-crimes_1071627.html

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