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In the Name of God بسم الله

Chinese american defends Xianjang, thoughts?

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He raises good points. And I think the same reasons why the IRI has not yet "condemned" the Chinese authorities. I wish he could've gone on more on the propaganda coming from the West which seems to have quite an influence on the Muslims here.

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Posted (edited)

China is not in the wrong here. The West is.

Dealing with Wahhabi–Salafi ideology is as arduous as addressing evangelicalism. Reasoned argumentation and considered compromise—judiciousness—simply doesn’t work. The reason: antirational, extremist, fascist, pseudo-“religious” ideology (that latches onto the slightest indication of weakness, whether actual or imaginary). In such a situation only utmost ruthlessness seems to be the solution. Hint: the West has spent the past two thousand years imposing an extremist, dualistic, religious ideology rooted in irrationality and polytheism, including eugenicist racialism. That ideology is Trinitarian Christianity: the source and mirror of both Wahhabi–Salafi ideology and postmodernist identity politics.

People who shirk responsibility and duty gravitate toward ideologies that reinforce victimhood and viciousness. Rabid dogs, of course, need to be put down without consideration of political correctness. All the West’s shrieking about “human rights” for freedom fighters terrorists, bodies sexual perverts, believers cultists of various shades and stripes, etc. is mere projection and sinister sophistry oriented toward the augmentation of Mordor Mountain Inc.’s Intergalactic Evil Empire. The problem is that the non-West has long been too “civilised” to respond to the West in the only language that the West’s “illuminated” elites and unwashed masses alike understand: that the survival of civilisation rests upon the will to respond proportionately to the potential for harm, whether actualised or not.

The West’s unbounded, unrestricted harm has been compounded for millennia without anything close to a proportionate, appropriate response by the victims.

Edited by Northwest
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3 minutes ago, Northwest said:

That ideology is Trinitarian Christianity: the source and mirror of both Wahhabi–Salafi ideology and postmodernist identity politics.

Partially agree but based and vargpilled

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1 hour ago, modaoudi said:

based and vargpilled

Salam brother what does this terminology mean, I tried looking it up on Urban dictionary, but I didn’t get a satisfactory definition.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Salam brother what does this terminology mean, I tried looking it up on Urban dictionary, but I didn’t get a satisfactory definition.

It's just a meme talk from the internet :p

Based: Something you might not agree with but you still respect. --> "Often used in contexts where the action or opinion ignores popular trends and social conventions or requires special effort."

Vargpilled: --> Varg vikernes known Anti-Christian norse pagan

Edited by modaoudi
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This bald devil in the video deserves credit for being extremely cunning and manipulating the issue with his forked tongue. Notice how every 2 seconds he repeats the mantra of "terrorism, terrorism, terrorism" as if western China was a warzone with car bombs going off every minute. The reality is, the terrorist acts perpetrated from some very minor separatist and Jihadist groups in western China were few and far between. They are simply the pretext for China to do what it planned to do all along, forcefully assimilate the Uighurs. That bald devil said that there are Muslims and Christians all over China and they are respected. He conveniently failed to mention that religion and religious activity is highly regulated by the Communist regime. Why didn't he condemn the lack of freedom of religion in China? He is obviously a China apologist who will never condemn the lack of political freedom in China either.

He admits he doesn't really know what is going on in western China with the concentration camps. Then on what basis is he qualified to discuss this issue? The truth is, mosques are being demolished, including some very old and large mosques. There are also reports of forceful sterilization as a means of "population control" of the Uighurs. Muslims are forced to eat during Ramadan. Women are forced to remove their veils, men are forced to shave their beards and not allowed to wear Islamic skullcaps and turbans. What's worse, they are forced to worship the Communist Party. The concentration camps themselves are a nightmare. There are brutal beatings and torture. Han Chinese men are permitted to enter a Uighur house at and stay there to monitor the activities of the Uighur family, make sure they aren't praying, reading the Quran, etc. Muslim shops are forced to sell liqor or else can be closed down by the authorities. The population is being used as a guinea pig for the latest surveillance technology too which the Communist regime intend to install throughout the country including Hong Kong.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

This bald devil in the video deserves credit for being extremely cunning and manipulating the issue with his forked tongue.

Talk about the devil when you litterally tried to justify the brittish colonisation of india in another thread.

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 Notice how every 2 seconds he repeats the mantra of "terrorism, terrorism, terrorism" as if western China was a warzone with car bombs going off every minute.

Thats what you assume he meant, he clearly stated what happened there and he named the terrorist acts if you want to refute that these terrorist acts ever happened go ahead, the situation in xinjiang is simmilar to tripoli in lebanon 2013, when terrorist elements were there causing cahos.

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They are simply the pretext for China to do what it planned to do all along, forcefully assimilate the Uighurs. That bald devil said that there are Muslims and Christians all over China and they are respected. He conveniently failed to mention that religion and religious activity is highly regulated by the Communist regime. Why didn't he condemn the lack of freedom of religion in China?

The only ones claiming this are the western media, if anything there is litterally a lot of muslims who enjoy high positions there , there is litteral muslims who I know told me they enjoyed going to madrassas in major cities, also if you bothered to even read the comments you will find people giving testemonies to how true this is, one christian person for example mentionned how their church they go in is funded and given stuff by the govt.

But again you will probably dismiss these comments as "ccp bots" because they disagree with you.

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He is obviously a China apologist who will never condemn the lack of political freedom in China either.

Same old rethoric.

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He admits he doesn't really know what is going on in western China with the concentration camps. Then on what basis is he qualified to discuss this issue?

He is using sources and what he has seen and heard people say about the place which is exactly the same thing you are doing, but you dont show sorces at all, the truth is you dont know either what is exactly happening, all you know litterally comes from sources you trust, so the same claim can be made about you.

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The truth is, mosques are being demolished, including some very old and large mosques. There are also reports of forceful sterilization as a means of "population control" of the Uighurs. Muslims are forced to eat during Ramadan. Women are forced to remove their veils, men are forced to shave their beards and not allowed to wear Islamic skullcaps and turbans. What's worse, they are forced to worship the Communist Party. The concentration camps themselves are a nightmare. There are brutal beatings and torture. Han Chinese men are permitted to enter a Uighur house at and stay there to monitor the activities of the Uighur family, make sure they aren't praying, reading the Quran, etc. Muslim shops are forced to sell liqor or else can be closed down by the authorities. The population is being used as a guinea pig for the latest surveillance technology too which the Communist regime intend to install throughout the country including Hong Kong.

What a load if nonsense, there was a deleted comment by youtube(no suprise) in the video comment section which showed that these "reports" are litterally fabricated lies, for example if I remeber correctly the picture about uigurs forced to drink and remove veils came from indonesia in 2009, the "proof" of uigurs being abused in concentration camps actually came from a 2003 bbc report on how people were bring treated in asylum insititutions, The guy on reddit who said "i saw the abuse in xijiang and this is true!!" and all that nonsense was found to be a guy who worked on guantanamo bay prison during the early 2000s or something of that sorts, the mosque being destroyed was litterally a reconstruction site, it had nothing to do with mosques being destroyed to "destroy islam" and the list goes on and on, this really does not shock me because they did the same with russia for example where they showed "russian troops occupying ukraine" when in reality it was a pic of russian troops from the georgea war with an instagram filter on the picture, they did the same with syria where they showed a bunch of children who were "gassed" but that picture was in reality from palestine after white phosphourus and not syria.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Posted (edited)

Also, here is another example of lies :

https://www.google.com/search?q=xinjiang+fake+pictures&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=insv&sxsrf=ALeKk02AazPR6fokXPxGz910LZH-0kn5zw:1597330600210&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2r46YuJjrAhW6oHIEHTofBx4Q_AUoAXoECA4QAQ&cshid=1597330646425&biw=360&bih=560&dpr=4#imgrc=2ZaqCozh2G4mEM

 

 

Now let me make something clear to you, does this mean I don't think China is in the wrong? No ofcourse not, all I am doing is showing how a lot of these claims that you put are pure nonsense and I am not suprised because the western media did the same in other countries and because the american elections are near, this whole china bashing thing is part of politics, they did the same thing to russia during the obama administration especially before the elctions and they did the same anti china rethoric before the mitt romney and obama elections in 2012.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Amazing! The defense of a collective punishment of an entire population including indoctrinating them with propaganda for the chinese communist party, an atheistic party btw has now gained support of muslims on ShiaChat, because it's not the west. Tell me then why the hell do you people oppose drone strikes  when conducted across vast swaths of the ME, I know I do because they are indiscriminate and kill a ton of innocent people often because of flawed intelligence or indiscriminate tactics. In this case the CCP is rounding up an entire group of people because of the actions of a few, and here we have people justifying it as well Salafism and Wahhabism, as if it's everyone in Xinjiang. These are exact policies the Bush administration used post-9/11 where muslims were rounded up and sent home to their countries of origin to be tortured, and we condemned it, because it was the west, and yet here we are defending China. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Amazing! The defense of a collective punishment of an entire population including indoctrinating them with propaganda for the chinese communist party, an atheistic party btw has now gained support of muslims on ShiaChat, because it's not the west. Tell me then why the hell do you people oppose drone strikes  when conducted across vast swaths of the ME, I know I do because they are indiscriminate and kill a ton of innocent people often because of flawed intelligence or indiscriminate tactics. In this case the CCP is rounding up an entire group of people because of the actions of a few, and here we have people justifying it as well Salafism and Wahhabism, as if it's everyone in Xinjiang. These are exact policies the Bush administration used post-9/11 where muslims were rounded up and sent home to their countries of origin to be tortured, and we condemned it, because it was the west, and yet here we are defending China. 

I am not even defending anything, just refuting some of the lies that get spread on the internet, a lot of these "proofs" are fabricated, this by no means, means that the ccp is not mistreating muslims in xijiang, but this is what we muslims should do which is say it how it is, most of these "proofs" are just propaghanda by the west to further their political agenda especially during times of american elections, if a lie is spread I will call it as it is, wether you hate it or like it, emotions and unverified sources should never be something reliable for arguments.

 

Even western outlets such as France24 admitted some of these "proofs" were complete lies and were hurting the uigur cause.

If anything these lies should anger you because they are not doing good for your cause.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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41 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

I am not even defending anything, just refuting some of the lies that get spread on the internet, a lot of these "proofs" are fabricated, this by no means, means that the ccp is not mistreating muslims in xijiang, but this is what we muslims should do which is say it how it is, most of these "proofs" are just propaghanda by the west to further their political agenda especially during times of american elections, if a lie is spread I will call it as it is, wether you hate it or like it, emotions and unverified sources should never be something reliable for arguments.

I think it's pretty amazing to use a Chinese American to fact check and then call what human rights organizations have reported to be unverified sources. If you want to check that a source is biased, look at how they've reported western crimes and atrocities, if you can find consistency, you can probably rely on the source. Does the west use propaganda against the Chinese government? Yes!  Does that even matter in the grand scheme of things when it comes to the things the Chinese government is doing? No! Realistically what do you think the west is even going to get out of China even as they demonize it? It won't weaken it, they won't go to war over it, Americans are too busy dying everyday to care about the Uyghurs, so the demonisation really is irrelevant. No one cares about the Uyghurs, other than a few folks who don't form a substantial voting bloc anyway. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I think it's pretty amazing to use a Chinese American to fact check and then call what human rights organizations have reported to be unverified sources. If you want to check that a source is biased, look at how they've reported western crimes and atrocities, if you can find consistency, you can probably rely on the source. Does the west use propaganda against the Chinese government? Yes!  Does that even matter in the grand scheme of things when it comes to the things the Chinese government is doing? No! Realistically what do you think the west is even going to get out of China even as they demonize it? It won't weaken it, they won't go to war over it, Americans are too busy dying everyday to care about the Uyghurs, so the demonisation really is irrelevant. No one cares about the Uyghurs, other than a few folks who don't form a substantial voting bloc anyway. 

I wasn't even using him as my fact checking, I was talking about most of the nonsense being spread by bbc, nyt, fox, abc, cnn, etc where they sometimes show pictures or videos but in reality they are taken out of context, this has nothing to do with human right organisations.

This has even been proven, go look it up if you don't beleive me I even put one example of this where the bbc deliberatly lied about this.

Please read what I even write before making a whole barrage of strawmen.

 

Now as for your other points, bashing china does benefit america, it gives them justification to remove chinese companies who are destroying american companies in competitions like huawei for example, another reason why they benefit from this is because china will be the scapegoat for a lot of problems , this will inturn divert SOME OF the american publics attention to china instead of problems that plague their country especially in the political level as they are virtually unaware of it if they dont take time to resesrch it.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Posted (edited)

Anyways, I won't debate in this forum for hours and hours on end, I have more important stuff to do right now, i'll end it with this, if china commits bad then may Allah(stw) curse them, but a lot of claims against them are fabricated or exagerrated, if anyone here does not agree that western media can twist and lie about things to suit their agenda like they did with many countries, good on you, all of what I say can be researched.

 

Also this video was here for your thoughts, as the title suggests, I have no clue why I am being labled as someone who agrees with this unconditionally.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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21 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

Please read what I even write before making a whole barrage of strawmen.

 

 

21 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

Also this video was here for your thoughts, as the title suggests, I have no clue why I am being labled as someone who agrees with this unconditionally.

Because your comments in response to one of the responses here suggested that you dismiss facts as propaganda and you're basically equating this guy with someone else by saying well you've heard "different things". That simply isn't the way to verify what is happening in the world. A rational, reasonable individual turns to sources that are neutral and have a history of even covering abuses by western governments and see what they say about the situation in Xinjiang. I recommend watching democracy now, they cover these issues extensively, it is not exactly an outlet known for its apologia of US or western imperialism.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

 

Because your comments in response to one of the responses here suggested that you dismiss facts as propaganda and you're basically equating this guy with someone else by saying well you've heard "different things".

What you think it suggests is not nessesarly what I mean.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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