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In the Name of God بسم الله

Popular Shia Sheikh says that Imam Ali(as) is equal to the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

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The video

Popular Sheikh Mahdi Modarresi stated that Imam Ali shares every single one of the virtues and attributes of the Holy Prophet. He then moves on to say that this makes Ali equal to The Prophet in every way.

Im a shia, but please tell me that this is ridiculous. We don’t believe that Ali is equal to the Prophet at all right? 

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It's just Modarresi being Modarresi. This Sunni Defense channel are doing a whole series on him, which is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel. This is the full video: Around the 1

He said the truth. Let me elaborate his message although I haven't seen the video. And I would like to build my argument on the basis of just one verse of Qur'an: Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 61

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said that he is a slave of Muhammad (S).   and this isn’t fake humility and nor is it a slave to the mere “function” of prophethood as prophethood (nubbuwat and risalat) in

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No, we believe that the prophet is the best of all creations. 

At the same time I don't see this as a particularly scandalous or problematic claim, especially in light of the numerous merits of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) himself has described on so many occasions.

The obvious difference, as the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) states in hadith al manzila, is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is not a prophet. 

Apart from that, we have received no verse or narration highlighting additional differences between them. 

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2 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

No, we believe that the prophet is the best of all creations. 

At the same time I don't see this as a particularly scandalous or problematic claim, especially in light of the numerous merits of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) himself has described on so many occasions.

The obvious difference, as the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) states in hadith al manzila, is that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is not a prophet. 

Apart from that, we have received no verse or narration highlighting additional differences between them. 

Well, personally i think that the reason that the Prophet((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is superior to Imam Ali(عليه السلام) isn’t just because he’s a prophet and Ali isn’t, i think there are various merits the Prophet had that made him superior to Imam Ali.

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34 minutes ago, crashproof said:

Popular Sheikh Mahdi Modarresi stated that Imam Ali shares every single one of the virtues and attributes of the Holy Prophet. He then moves on to say that this makes Ali equal to The Prophet in every way.

He said the truth.

Let me elaborate his message although I haven't seen the video. And I would like to build my argument on the basis of just one verse of Qur'an:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 61:
فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وَأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

This is the famous verse of "mubahila". Everyone knows that in place of "abna'ana" Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took Hasnain (عليه السلام) with him. In place of "nisa'ana" he took Syeda Fatima s.a and in place of "anfusana", he took Imam Ali (عليه السلام) with him.

And that's why Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is famous as "Nafs e Rasool". What does that mean? It means the same what has been mentioned by the scholar as quoted by you. 

I would also like to quote a famous hadith in which Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said "I and Ali were created from one same light (noorun wahid)"

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7 minutes ago, Cool said:

He said the truth.

Let me elaborate his message although I haven't seen the video. And I would like to build my argument on the basis of just one verse of Qur'an:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 61:
فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وَأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

This is the famous verse of "mubahila". Everyone knows that in place of "abna'ana" Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took Hasnain (عليه السلام) with him. In place of "nisa'ana" he took Syeda Fatima s.a and in place of "anfusana", he took Imam Ali (عليه السلام) with him.

And that's why Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is famous as "Nafs e Rasool". What does that mean? It means the same what has been mentioned by the scholar as quoted by you. 

I would also like to quote a famous hadith in which Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said "I and Ali were created from one same light (noorun wahid)"

I disagree with you there bro, i believe that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the best man to walk this earth and is superior to everybody else, including Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

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Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says:

...
With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf. Beware; whoever calls to this course, kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine. Certainly the two arbitrators were appointed to revive what the Qur'an revives and to destroy what the Qur'an destroys. Revival means to unite on it (in a matter) and destruction means to divide on a matter. If the Qur'an drives us to them we should follow them, and if it drives them to us they should follow up.
...
Source: https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-127-if-you-refuse-stop-claiming

Moderrasi is clearly in the category who will be doomed by too much love. Imam Ali considered himself a slave of Rasoolallah--that in itself is obvious reasons to conclude the Prophet's superiority.

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2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says:

...
With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf. Beware; whoever calls to this course, kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine. Certainly the two arbitrators were appointed to revive what the Qur'an revives and to destroy what the Qur'an destroys. Revival means to unite on it (in a matter) and destruction means to divide on a matter. If the Qur'an drives us to them we should follow them, and if it drives them to us they should follow up.
...
Source: https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-127-if-you-refuse-stop-claiming

Moderrasi is clearly in the category who will be doomed by too much love. Imam Ali considered himself a slave of Rasoolallah--that in itself is obvious reasons to conclude the Prophet's superiority.

I completely agree with you!

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10 minutes ago, crashproof said:

believe that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the best man to walk

I am fully agree with you. But this doesn't negate what has been mentioned by me. Because Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & his nafs are not two things having different traits or lower & higher grades. 

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This status of "nafs" is extended to every Imam of Ahlul Bayt as per hadith which says "kullona Muhammad".

Another hadith giving "minniyat" to them as "innahum minni wa ana minhum". Yet another famous hadith saying the same " Hussaino minni wa ana min Hussain".

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4 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Do you think Imam Jawad is of equal status of Imam Ali?

Do you reject the hadith which says "Awwalona Muhammad, Auwsatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad"?

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16 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) says:

...
With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf. Beware; whoever calls to this course, kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine. Certainly the two arbitrators were appointed to revive what the Qur'an revives and to destroy what the Qur'an destroys. Revival means to unite on it (in a matter) and destruction means to divide on a matter. If the Qur'an drives us to them we should follow them, and if it drives them to us they should follow up.
...
Source: https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-127-if-you-refuse-stop-claiming

Moderrasi is clearly in the category who will be doomed by too much love. Imam Ali considered himself a slave of Rasoolallah--that in itself is obvious reasons to conclude the Prophet's superiority.

LOL. 

as usual picking up random stuff to support your claims.

 

this Narration refers to the exaggerators and the Muqassirs/nasibis.

 

exaggerators i.e who call Imam Ali (عليه السلام) God.

 

Muqassirs i.e the one who reduces the status of Imam (عليه السلام).

 

Nasibi i.e the one who bears enmity with the shias after coming to know that the shias has love of the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) in thier hearts.

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1 minute ago, Cool said:

Do you reject the hadith which says "Awwalona Muhammad, Auwsatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad"?

So when pressed with a question, we just ask another question to deflect? I will answer your question, but I also expect you to answer mine. I have no opinion of this hadith as I have not looked into it. However, if I were to take it as authentic, I would not take it literally--rather more metaphorically. Your turn.

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1 minute ago, randomly curious said:

LOL. 

as usual picking up random stuff to support your claims.

 

this Narration refers to the exaggerators and the Muqassirs/nasibis.

 

exaggerators i.e who call Imam Ali (عليه السلام) God.

 

Muqassirs i.e the one who reduces the status of Imam (عليه السلام).

 

Nasibi i.e the one who bears enmity with the shias after coming to know that the shias has love of the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) in thier hearts.

Random? Sure pal. So be with the great majority of Muslims who consider Ali to be the giver of life/death/sustenance.:discussion:

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Cool said:

Do you reject the hadith which says "Awwalona Muhammad, Auwsatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad"?

brother, here's that hadeeth.

 

As for Shia sources, it has been mentioned in:

- Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 25, p. 363

- ibid, vol. 26, pp. 3, 5, 16

- ibid, vol. 36, p. 399

- Al-Ghaybah by al-Nu'mani, p. 85

"Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said:

 "I am Ali and Ali is me. We all are from the same light and our soul is of the command of Allah. The first of us is Muhammad and the middle one among us is Muhammad and the last one of us is Muhammad and we all are Muhammad".

Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 26, p. 16

 

 

Extract from sermon recognition of noor.

 

And the first one of us is Muhammad (saws), and our middle one is Muhammad (saws), and our last one is Muhammad (saws). The one who perfects my recognition, so he is upon the correct religion just as Allah (عزّ وجلّ) the Exalted Said: and that is the correct Religion

 

[98:5],and I shall be explaining that with the Support of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and His Inclination.


O Salman and O Jundab!'


They said, ‘At your  service, O Amir Al-Momineen (عليه السلام), may the Salawat of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) be upon you!’


He (asws) said: ‘I and Muhammad (saws) were one Noor (Light) from Noor of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and Majestic. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Blessed and Exalted Noor to split, so He (عزّ وجلّ) Said to the half,

 

 “Be Muhammad!” And Said to the half: “Be Ali!” From it (that’s why), Rasool-Allah (saws) said: ‘Ali (asws) is from me and I am from Ali, and no one should execute (deliver a Message) from me except Ali'.

Edited by randomly curious
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3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Random? Sure pal. So be with the great majority of Muslims who consider Ali to be the giver of life/death/sustenance.:discussion:

I've proved this already through  the verses of the Holy Qur'an and the Narrations compatible with the verses of the Holy Qur'an

 

 

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2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Your turn.

This is all metaphor. Obviously there are not 14 Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), it is about the status which they achieved after the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Everyone of them is Muhammad of his time, representing  the very being of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as his nafs, as the bearers of his minniyat.

So Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is your mowla but not the Imam Ali? Or if Prophet & Imam Ali are your mowla but Prophet is of higher status mowla & Imam Ali of lower status mowla? 

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2 minutes ago, Cool said:

 

So Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is your mowla but not the Imam Ali? Or if Prophet & Imam Ali are your mowla but Prophet is of higher status mowla & Imam Ali of lower status mowla? 

Allah is also Maula. Are allah and Ali maula at the same level?

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Posted (edited)

Imam Mohammad Baqir (عليه السلام) narrated from his holy grandfathers (عليه السلام) that one day Rasool Allah (saws) went out and he was riding, and Mawla Ali (عليه السلام) also went out and he was on foot. He (saws) said to him: 


‘O Abul Hassan (s.a.)! You should also ride or go back. Indeed Allah has ordered me that when I am riding you should also ride, and when I am on foot then you should be on foot as well, when I am sitting you should also sit. No doubt this is one limit from the limits of Allah about your sitting and standing, which can not be changed. And which merit Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has bestowed me from His merits similar merit is bestowed upon you, and He specified me with Nabuwat and Risalat, and made you my Wali in this Amr, so that you can implement the limits (orders) of Allah and keep steadfast in difficult tasks. And I swear by Who sent me ‘Mohammad’ as Nabi with Haqq, he did not believe in me who denied you, and he did not testify me who opposed you, and he did not believe in Allah  (عزّ وجلّ) who denied you. And no doubt your Fazilat is my Fazilat, and my Fazilat is Fazl of Allah, and this is the saying of my Rabb 
Azza wa Jalla:


 ‘Say in the Fazl of Allah and in His Rahmat, in that they should rejoice, it is better than that which they gather’ (Yunus 58),


 i.e. Fazl of Allah is Nabuwat of your Nabi (saws) and His Rahmat is Walayat of Ali ibne Abi Talib (عليه السلام), therefore it is said that those people who rejoice from Nabuwat and Walayat they are Shias and this is better for them than that wealth & family which their opponents gather 
in this world. And I swear by Allah, ya Ali (عليه السلام) ! you are only created that your Rabb’s worship can be done, and due to you signs of Deen can be recognised, and due to you old path can be kept in right form. And no doubt he went astray who astray from you, and he can never get guidance towards Allah Azza wa Jalla who has not got your and your Walayat’s guidance, and this is the saying of my Rabb Azza wa Jalla: 


‘And no doubt I am Most Forgiving to him who repents and believes and does good then he got the right direction’ (Ta Ha82) 


means towards your Walayat. And no doubt my Rabb Tabarak wa Ta’ala has ordered me that which Right is declared for me, the same I should declare obligatory for you as well, and those who believe your Right is certainly obligatory on them. And if you was not there then Party of Allah would not have been recognised, and due to you enemies of Allah are recognised, and who died without your Walayat he died without any (good) thing. And no doubt Allah Azza wa Jalla revealed to me: 


‘O My Rasool convey what has been revealed to you by your Rabb’ (Ma’ida 76) 

ya Ali (عليه السلام) it means about your Walayat, ‘and if you do not do it then you did not convey His Risalat’, and if I would not have conveyed the order about your Walayat, my works would have been erased. And any person who meets Allah without your Walayat, certainly his deeds are destroyed. And I am fulfilling covenant of Allah, and say only that thing about you which is saying of my Rabb Tabarak wa Ta’ala, and certainly I only declare about you only what Allah Azza wa Jalla reveals about you.” 

 

(Basharat al Mustafa (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w., P 275)

 

watch out another Narration.

 

Abdullah bin Masood came to Rasool Allah (saws) and after Salaam said: Ya Rasool Allah (saws) show me Haqq so I can see it with my eyes.” He (saws) said:


“ O ibne Masood! Enter this room and look what you can see.” He said: I entered and saw that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is busy praying and he is saying humbly in Raku o Sajood:

 

 ‘Ya Allah! for the sake of Your Nabi (saws) forgive the sinful among my Shias.’ So I came out to tell about it to Rasool Allah (saws) but I saw him (saws) praying as well and saying humbly in Raku o Sajood: 


‘Ya Allah! for the sake of  Your Wali Ali (s.a.) forgive the sinful among my Ummah.’

 I was perplexed, when he (saws) finished his prayer, said to me: ‘Do you do Kufr after Eman?’

 

 I replied: ‘No. Ya Rasool Allah (saws) I swear by your life, I did not see 
anything except that Ali (عليه السلام) who was asking Allah for the sake of your high status, and then saw you and you (saws) was asking Allah for the sake of his (عليه السلام) high status. So I do not know between you both who have higher status near Allah?’


 He (saws) said: ‘O ibne Masood! No doubt Allah has created me and Ali and Hassan and Hussain (asws) from His Noor e Quds. When Allah intended to spread the creations then He created skies and earth from the essence (smell) of my Noor, and I swear by Allah I am greater than skies and earth. And He created Arsh and Kursi from the essence of Noor of Ali (عليه السلام), and I swear by Allah, Ali (عليه السلام) is greater than Arsh and Kursi. And He created Hoor al Een and Angels from the essence of Noor of Hassan (عليه السلام), and I swear by Allah, Hassan (عليه السلام) is greater than Hoor al Een and Angels. And He created Laoh and Qalum from the essence of Noor of Hussain (s.a.) and I swear by Allah Hussain (عليه السلام) is greater than Laoh and Qalum. At that time Easts and Wests were dark, so Angels started screaming and calling: Ya Ilahi, O our Lord! for the sake of these Anwaar whom you created, take us out of this darkness, at that time Allah spoke another word and created Rooh form it, and by placing al-Noor in; that Rooh He created Fatima al-Zahra (sa) and gave her place in front of Arsh, then Easts and Wests became bright, and due to this high quality gave her name al-Zahra (sa)

O ibne Masood! when it will be day of Qiyamah, Allah Azza wa Jalla will say to me and Ali (as):

 ‘Enter in paradise who loved you both, and cast in Fire who kept malice to you both’, and this is the meaning of this saying of Allah:


 ‘Cast you both in Jahannam all opponents deniers.’ (Qaaf24) 

 

I asked: ‘Ya Rasool Allah (saws) who is Kuffaar Aneed?

 

 He (saws) said: ‘Kuffaar who denied my Nabuwat and Aneed who opposed Ali ibne Abi Talib (عليه السلام).’ 


(al Qatra, V 1, P 179)

Edited by randomly curious
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Allah is also Maula. Are allah and Ali maula at the same level?

Surah Al-Fath, Verse 10:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُبَايِعُونَكَ إِنَّمَا يُبَايِعُونَ اللَّهَ يَدُ اللَّهِ فَوْقَ أَيْدِيهِمْ فَمَن نَّكَثَ فَإِنَّمَا يَنكُثُ عَلَىٰ نَفْسِهِ وَمَنْ أَوْفَىٰ بِمَا عَاهَدَ عَلَيْهُ اللَّهَ فَسَيُؤْتِيهِ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Surely those who swear allegiance to you do but swear allegiance to Allah; the hand of Allah is above their hands. Therefore whoever breaks (his faith), he breaks it only to the injury of his own soul, and whoever fulfills what he has covenanted with Allah, He will grant him a mighty reward.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Anfal, Verse 17:
فَلَمْ تَقْتُلُوهُمْ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ قَتَلَهُمْ وَمَا رَمَيْتَ إِذْ رَمَيْتَ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ رَمَىٰ وَلِيُبْلِيَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْهُ بَلَاءً حَسَنًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
(English - Shakir)

For us, they are wajhullah, yadullah etc. Furthermore you try to find what does it means in above verses. 

Edited by Cool
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3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

@Cool still waiting on my answer...

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 80:
مَّن يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّىٰ فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا

Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.
(English - Shakir)

 

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1 minute ago, Cool said:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 80:
مَّن يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّىٰ فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا

Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.
(English - Shakir)

 

Does not answer my question:

Is Imam Jawad of the same status as Imam Ali?

Why are you running from this. You had no problem defending Imam Ali being of equal status to Rasoolallah.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, 786:) said:

Does not answer my question:

Is Imam Jawad of the same status as Imam Ali?

Why are you running from this. You had no problem defending Imam Ali being of equal status to Rasoolallah.

why don't you get this into your head?

 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is Muhammad (saws) similarly Mawla al jawwad (عليه السلام) is.

Edited by randomly curious
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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

Is Imam Jawad of the same status as Imam Ali?

I have already said, they all are Muhammad of their times. May it be Imam Ali (عليه السلام) or may it be Imam Al Mehdi ajtf. 

Why do you want me to repeat words again & again?

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1. The Prophet is of greater status then Imam Ali ((عليه السلام))

2. 

29 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

 "I am Ali and Ali is me. We all are from the same light and our soul is of the command of Allah. The first of us is Muhammad and the middle one among us is Muhammad and the last one of us is Muhammad and we all are Muhammad".

(a) In the same way they are created from the same divine light, we are created from the same form of clay - are we all equal as well? 

(b) The first is Muhammad.... until the end 

This is to highlight that they are all one in conveying the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

(c) Sixth Imam said if twelfth Imam were alive at his time he would have served him. Allah Knows Best.

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Now my turn @786, in what status Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) took Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in mubahila? 

1 hour ago, Cool said:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 61:
فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وَأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

 

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3 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Sixth Imam said if twelfth Imam were alive at his time he would have served him

Just like Imam Hussain served Imam Hassan (عليه السلام). So what's the problem here?

And what about 3:61? Who were representing "anfusana" in mubahila? 

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

So with that logic, Imam Ali is also a Prophet?

Hmm do you think in same way about hadith "Hussaino minni wa ana minhum"? Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was Prophet because of Imam Hussain? 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

(a) In the same way they are created from the same divine light, we are created from the same form of clay - are we all equal as well? 

(b) The first is Muhammad.... until the end 

 

this question makes no sense but just to answer you, first of all only the hearts of the shias are been created from thier clay.

 

and similary Masoomeen (عليه السلام) also said we are created from the Noor of Allah (عزّ وجلّ), do they become equal to Allah (عزّ وجلّ)?

16 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

This is to highlight that they are all one in conveying the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

if this is the case then rest of the prophets (عليه السلام) become equal to RasoolAllah (saws)?

 

16 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

c) Sixth Imam said if twelfth Imam were alive at his time he would have served him. Allah Knows Best.

Imam as Saadiq (عليه السلام) told to a companion after a lengthy discussion, even i was present at your place during the majalis which you had held at your place. so the companion said but I didn't saw you.

 

Imam (عليه السلام) replied, i was present outside (out of respect) because My Grandmother Lady Fatima (sa) was present inside. 

 

and Lady Fatima (sa) has a title of Umm e Abeeha. (Mother of her father).

now? does she become superior to RasoolAllah (saws)?

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1 minute ago, Cool said:

Hmm do you think in same way about hadith "Hussaino minni wa ana minhum"? Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was Prophet because of Imam Hussain? 

I believe the Imams are slaves of the Prophet. All these narrations used to substantiate the equal status of Imams to Rasoolallah are simply taken out of context. The Prophet has said "X minni wa ana minnal X" about several individuals. This was to show his love for the individual. Not some way to show equality in status.

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8 minutes ago, 786:) said:

This is just gymnastics.

Actually, you cannot digest it. I  know some people have "saghat qulobokuma" but you certainly have "saghat digestive system".

:hahaha:

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