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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why do we focus on Imams (عليه السلام) more than the Prophet or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

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  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Leaving aside the fact that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is more important than the Imams (عليه السلام), and hence deserves more time, it's obvious to everybody that Imam al-Hadi (عليه السلام), to pick a random example, doesn't get even a small fraction of the time devoted to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) or Imam Husayn (عليه السلام). So if we actually worked out the real percentages, it may be that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is discussed 7% of the time (although if you take out the times he is mentioned in the context of discussing other members of the Ahlulbayt, then I'm sure it's far less than that), but Imam Ali and Imam Husayn would get much more time than that.

Sure enough within the Imams, there are some that get more attention than others but the context of this thread is Prophet vs. Imams.

I am sure there is no correlation between this thread pitting Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) against Imams (عليه السلام) and the thread pitting Quran against the Ahlul-Bayt (عليه السلام).

I suppose Imam vs. Imam will be the next thread...

 

Edited by ShiaMan14
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41 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I don’t get the defensive mechanism at play when the underemphasis of the Holy Prophet is mentioned. Why not just accept it and acknowledge that we as Shias need to build a better relationship with the Holy Prophet?

There is no defensive mechanism at play here. Just awareness that there are some who continously try to instigate a conspiracy around Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) vs. Imams (عليه السلام).

Simple example - "Imam Hussain took a stand to defend the faith of his grandfather - RasoolAllah"

To some, this is talking about Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) only when in reality this is talking about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) just as much.

Similarly, "Man kunto mawla..." is as much about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as it is about Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but fitna-mongers will say this is about Ali only. 

Its a matter of perception. All Islamic discussions lead back to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

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1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Sure enough within the Imams, there are some that get more attention than others but the context of this thread is Prophet vs. Imams.

Right, and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is one of those who gets less attention than others. Agreed?

1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I am sure there is no correlation between this thread pitting Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) against Imams (عليه السلام) and the thread pitting Quran against the Ahlul-Bayt (عليه السلام).

I suppose Imam vs. Imam will be the next thread...

 

Nobody is, or would be capable of, pitting the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) against his own family. The issue is whether the best of creation and the one chosen to deliver Allah’s final message might not deserve a bit more time to discuss his life and teachings for their own sake, rather than just as a way of getting round to talking about the Imams again.

I don’t know why Shias get so defensive about this. It’s as plain as day, and any outside observer would think the same.

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46 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Right, and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is one of those who gets less attention than others. Agreed?

Nobody is, or would be capable of, pitting the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) against his own family. The issue is whether the best of creation and the one chosen to deliver Allah’s final message might not deserve a bit more time to discuss his life and teachings for their own sake, rather than just as a way of getting round to talking about the Imams again.

I don’t know why Shias get so defensive about this. It’s as plain as day, and any outside observer would think the same.

Disagreeing with an opinion doesn't mean getting defensive. It just means we have a disagreement.

Could we spend more time talking about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Sure. but we could spend more time talking about Imam Hadi (عليه السلام) (your reference) or discussing the quran or any topic. Anytime someone says more X and less Y, you are pitting X against Y.

From my vantage point, a lot of the discussions about the Ahlul-Bayt end up talking about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) directly or indirectly.

We are creating a controversy where there isn't one.

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5 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Disagreeing with an opinion doesn't mean getting defensive. It just means we have a disagreement.

Could we spend more time talking about the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Sure. but we could spend more time talking about Imam Hadi (عليه السلام) (your reference) or discussing the quran or any topic. Anytime someone says more X and less Y, you are pitting X against Y.

I agree with you, there are lots of important things we could be discussing, including the lives of the lesser-known Imams, and of course the Qur'an. So why don't we? Why instead to we have to hear the same stories over and over?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Was it? The other side included very religious people who prayed and fasted, etc.

Tawhid is greater than simply believing in one God or practicing the rituals with an empty heart.
 

Quote

Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful? 45:23

Quote

They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one Allah only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him). 9:31


Despite leaving Mecca a day before Hajj, Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) represented the actualisation of belief in Tawhid when he sacrificed himself and his family for the sake of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Quote

INNAA LILLAAHI WA INNAA ILAYHI RAAJI-O 'ONA RIZ”AN BI-QAZ”AAA-IHEEWA TASLEEMAN LI-AMRIHEE

Quote

Say. Surely my prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds; (6:162)

 

Edited by Ejaz
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4 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I agree with you, there are lots of important things we could be discussing, including the lives of the lesser-known Imams, and of course the Qur'an. So why don't we? Why instead to we have to hear the same stories over and over?

Slightly off topic since this is aboit Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) vs. Imams (عليه السلام).

Here is one "excuse" - lets say you were 15 when you started comprehending majlis and lectures and have been listening for 10 years. By the time you are 25, you complain about being tired of listening to the same topics. But what about that 15 year old who has just started comprehending? Or the revert who is attending his first year of majlis/lectures. 

The tendency is to focus on the lowest common denominator rather than the highest multiple hence the repetitions. 

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3 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Tawhid is greater than simply believing in one God or practicing the rituals with an empty heart.
 


Despite leaving Mecca a day before Hajj, Imam Husayn (عليه السلام) represented the actualisation of belief in Tawhid when he sacrificed himself and his family for the sake of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

 

We almost agree.

I think better to say Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) sacrificed himself for usul-e-deen rather than just tawheed.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/18/2020 at 9:06 PM, 786:) said:

I don’t get the defensive mechanism at play when the underemphasis of the Holy Prophet is mentioned. Why not just accept it and acknowledge that we as Shias need to build a better relationship with the Holy Prophet?

after that sunnis build a better relationship with the Holy Prophet than praising Sahaba more than Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) & prophet  Muhammad  (pbu) that now they just Sahaba Sahaba Sahaba :grin:.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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Guest Jimmy
On 8/20/2020 at 8:21 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

after that sunnis build a better relationship with the Holy Prophet than praising Sahaba more than Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) & prophet  Muhammad  (pbu) that now they just Sahaba Sahaba Sahaba :grin:.

Huh? 
 

you and your posts if it’s not copy pasted stuff then it’s mysterious posts that you can’t even understand.

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People tend to forget that for us Shi'a, our two main times where majalis are held is in the Holy Month of Ramadan and in Muharram. 

So when you say we speak about Imam Al-Husayn (عليه السلام) alot... well ofcourse, I mean it is Muharram after all. What should we talk about?

Should we talk more about other things? Is there neglected topics that are extremely important? Do preachers use the same style that can be altered to become better? Yes. But the attempt to pit one against the other is flawed in my opinion. 

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Actually if you really want to look deeply into the argument why do we only look into the lives of Imam Ali AS Imam Hussain AS and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? We have 10 other Imams who are not discussed as much. 
 

Discussing the Imams means discussing there stories and how those stories are applicable to us as Shi’a, these stories aid us closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Our core is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but we need to know how to reach Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), that’s why the stories of the Imams are stressed. 

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