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In the Name of God بسم الله

Imams of ahlul bayt alive and can hear.

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18 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Do you know even basic Arabic my friend? هو as a pronoun can never have اصحاب as its ضمير

Look dear, if it is really that difficult for you to translate following simple sentence:

و من جملة الشيعة اصحاب يونس بن عبد الرحمن القمى زعم

please take the help of Google translate. Earlier you translated it as:

10 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

From among the Shi'ah are the companions of Yunus bin Abdur Rahman al-Qummi. He (Yunus) claimed..."

 

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@Cherub786 Rasool Allah [saww] addressing the Kuffar who were killed in the battle of Badr Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: “The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: “Have

@Cherub786 so you’re just going to disagree with every comment and not reply to the sufficient evidences we provided. Kind of ironic how we’re talking about the “deaf, [and] blind”.

Obviously not. Obviously yes. Is this really a mainstream thing to do? I don’t think this is haram or shirk, but probably useless. It also doesn’t really make any sense for people who be

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3 minutes ago, Cool said:

Look dear, if it is really that difficult for you to translate following simple sentence:

و من جملة الشيعة اصحاب يونس بن عبد الرحمن القمى زعم

please take the help of Google translate. Earlier you translated it as:

If you don't trust my translation and are disputing it, what do you say about professional, published English translations of this sentence (like I posted previously) where it is clearly translated to mean Yunus himself (singular) claimed Allah is carried by the Angels and the Throne.

You are getting desperate and in the process making yourself look foolish by claiming that the singular pronoun هو can be applied to a group of people. I just don't know how I can take you seriously after such a major blunder. Why not just admit your mistake and move on? Why do you let pride prevent you from admitting you made a huge blunder in basic Arabic?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Now let me translate this sentence from the original quote I cited about the Yunusiyah from al-Milal wan-Nihal:

وهو من مشبهة الشيعة

And he (Yunus) was from the Mushabbihah of the Shi'ah

 

25 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

You are getting desperate and in the process making yourself look foolish by claiming that the singular pronoun هو can be applied to a group of people

No I am neither desperate nor I am foolish. The first quoted sentence in Arabic language gives the impression that the writer was unaware of who Yunus actually was. 

He was not مشبهة but was a شيعة، clear cut shia, he is among the people of consensus. Was a companion of Imam Al Kazim (عليه السلام) & Imam Ali Al Ridha (عليه السلام)

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12 minutes ago, Cool said:

 

No I am neither desperate nor I am foolish. The first quoted sentence in Arabic language gives the impression that the writer was unaware of who Yunus actually was. 

He was not مشبهة but was a شيعة، clear cut shia, he was among the people of consensus. 

Mushabbihah and Shi'ah are not mutually exclusive. The worst mushabbihah, historically, were Shi'ites. For example, one of your major Shi'ite theologians, Hisham ibn al-Hakam, believed: "Allah is a body with dimensions, he has height, breadth and depth (thickness), and all of these are equal (of equal height, breadth and depth)." Another one of your Shi'ite theologians was Hisham bin Salim al-Jawaliqi, he believed: "what he worshipped is in the form of a man, but without being flesh and blood, that his deity is a diffused white light. He claimed that his deity has five senses and has hands, feet, eyes, ears, nose, mouth. He claimed that his upper half is hollow and the lower half is solid, and that his object of worship has black hair, being made of black light, whereas the rest is white light." And a third of your Shi'ite theologians was Dawud al-Jawaribi, he believed: "his deity is a body in the form of a human with flesh and blood and said his upper half is hollow and lower half is solid. That he has curly hair. However he claimed it is a body unlike the bodies and flesh unlike the fleshes and blood unlike the bloods. He said, 'Pardon me for the beard and private parts, but ask me about anything else.'"

These are the worst examples of anthropotheism, and they were taught by major Shi'ite theologians.

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1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

Mushabbihah and Shi'ah are not mutually exclusive.

Now you brought a new claim for further embarrassing yourself. 

13 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

These are the worst examples of anthropotheism, and they were taught by major Shi'ite theologians.

What was taught by the Imams of Shia?

Right now I have you with me who believe that his god can be carried. 

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1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

As for your Imams, they were actually Sunni.

Indeed, who else can represent Sunnah if not the Imams of Ahlul Bayt. And so do we too. We are the true sunnis, 

On the other hand, you are just  punni.

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6 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

When did I say I believe that?

 

On 8/19/2020 at 3:07 PM, Cherub786 said:

I said Angels carry the Throne.

And you believe Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is literally sitting upon throne. Throne is carried by Angels. So whether you say or not that your God is carried, it doesn't matter. The above is the end result of such a belief that Allah is literally sitting upon throne. This belief itself is condemned by a majority of Ahlul Sunnah Scholars.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Cool said:

And you believe Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is literally sitting upon throne. Throne is carried by Angels. So whether you say or not that your God is carried, it doesn't matter. The above is the end result of such a belief that Allah is literally sitting upon throne. This belief itself is condemned by a majority of Ahlul Sunnah Scholars.

Yes I said the Angels carry the Throne, I never said the Angels carry Allah, or that the Throne carries Allah.

And btw, I don't necessarily disagree with Yunus al-Qummi's belief that the Angels carry Allah though He is stronger than them. By emphasizing the caveat "He is stronger than them", Yunus al-Qummi actually saved himself from a serious misguidance. Apparently, his belief was that the Angels carry Allah as a means of demonstrating Allah's Glory and Honor, but that does not necessitate that Allah needs to be carried, or that He is weaker than the Angels. Carrying someone can be for two reasons: 1. they are too weak and require being carried, 2. it is a symbolic act of respect and devotion. Obviously, Yunus al-Qummi believed the latter. Therefore, his belief is not kufr according to me. I simply do not say what he said because we have no proof of it from our Creed.

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On 8/18/2020 at 6:20 AM, Cherub786 said:

This division between physical and spiritual realm is speculative. We simply do not know the full reality of the Afterlife and Paradise. I am not commenting on the nature of the realm in which the souls of the Martyrs are taken, but I am commenting on the fact that the souls of the martyrs are not alive with their earthly, corporal bodies, they are not alive in our world.

You asked a very strange question which is to prove that the Ruh is Ruhani and not Jismani. The word Ruhani is derived from Ruh, therefore, a life of the Ruh without a Jism is necessarily a purely Ruhani life.

Having said that, we believe that the spirits of the martyrs are alive in Paradise, and that they are carried in the bellies of green birds. Note, this does not mean the Spirit of the Martyrs is incarnated into the body of a green bird, it means their spirits are carried in the belly of a green bird which acts as a vehicle or vessel, similar to how we may sit inside and travel inside a vehicle (car, ship, plane, train, etc.)

As for the affairs of the grave, I believe the world of barzakh is a parallel grave where the spirit of the deceased is given a parallel body, not the earthly corporal body of this world which evidently decays and decomposes into nothing but bones and dust. The soul is granted a parallel body in the Barzakh through which it is either punished or experience of delight.

So I return to my original point which is that the Martyrs are unable to hear us, because they no longer exist in our dimension. It is futile to call upon them or speak to the deceased, for they cannot hear anything whatsoever from our world

 You haven't advanced to anything new from the Quranic perspective? This notion of yours that: Earthly corporal body of this world which evidently decays and decomposes into nothing. Though its true in normal circumstances in normal deaths, but is it the same for martyrs?  

There is a view  from amongst  Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa, which diagree with your view.  We find proof from the authentic Sunnah that the bodies of the Prophets do not decompose.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Verily, Allah has forbidden the Earth to consume the bodies of the Prophets.” (Sunan Abî Dâwûd (1047), Sunan al-Nasâ’î (1374), and Sunan Ibn Mâjah (1636).)

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Az-Zarqânî (rahimahullah) has also mentioned numerous other claims that have been made regarding bodies that do not decompose, including those of the scholars who practice according to their knowledge, those who call the prayer on a voluntary basis, those who memorize the Qur’ân and act upon its teachings, those who die of plague while exhibiting forbearance, and others.

However,the crux of my view point is: How do you "Conclude the its a spiritual life and not material life? Which verse alludes to its a spiritual life in relation to Martyers in Paradise? If you can provide a verse I will concede.

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3 minutes ago, power said:

 You haven't advanced to anything new from the Quranic perspective? This notion of yours that: Earthly corporal body of this world which evidently decays and decomposes into nothing. Though its true in normal circumstances in normal deaths, but is it the same for martyrs?

Yes, it is the same for everyone. If you say martyrs are an exception to the natural process of decomposition of the corpse, you have to prove it. And if it could be proven that the corpse of the martyr does not decompose like the corpses of other deceased humans, then we should expect a mass conversion to Islam around the world.

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There is a view  from amongst  Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa, which diagree with your view.  We find proof from the authentic Sunnah that the bodies of the Prophets do not decompose.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Verily, Allah has forbidden the Earth to consume the bodies of the Prophets.” (Sunan Abî Dâwûd (1047), Sunan al-Nasâ’î (1374), and Sunan Ibn Mâjah (1636).)

You claim this is authentic, but it is a weak Hadith. Here is what a truly authentic Hadith says:

كُلُّ ابْنِ آدَمَ يَأْكُلُهُ التُّرَابُ إِلَّا عَجْبَ الذَّنَبِ مِنْهُ خُلِقَ وَفِيهِ يُرَكَّبُ

Translation: “All of the son of man is consumed by dust except the tailbone (coccyx) from which he was created and from which he shall be re-assembled [on the Day of Ressurection].” (Sahih Muslim)

It can also be translated "every son of Adam", meaning there is no exception to this natural phenomenon.

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Az-Zarqânî (rahimahullah) has also mentioned numerous other claims that have been made regarding bodies that do not decompose, including those of the scholars who practice according to their knowledge, those who call the prayer on a voluntary basis, those who memorize the Qur’ân and act upon its teachings, those who die of plague while exhibiting forbearance, and others.

Total rubbish, not even worth the paper it was written on.

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However,the crux of my view point is: How do you "Conclude the its a spiritual life and not material life? Which verse alludes to its a spiritual life in relation to Martyers in Paradise? If you can provide a verse I will concede.

It's immaterial (pardon the pun) whether the martyrs enjoy a spiritual life or a material life in the Afterlife. My point is their lives have no connection to this world, and their earthly, corporal bodies are not alive, they are buried in graves where they gradually decompose into nothing but bones and dust.

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10 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Yes I said the Angels carry the Throne, I never said the Angels carry Allah, or that the Throne carries Allah.

You're a liar you know. Here is what is written on your website:

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So I believe that Allah Most High occupies the Throne, it is filled with His Glory, and His Presence dwells there. He is settled upon it, and it may be said that He is sitting upon it. 

http://www.salvationfromhell.com/?m=1

About rest of your comment about Yunus Al-Qummi, I don't want to further embarrass you as you are already embarrassed. 

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