Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Imams of ahlul bayt alive and can hear.

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Veteran Member
19 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

They are alive spiritually in another dimension, but they are not alive in this world

How can  you perceive, when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said you cannot perceive?  And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 291
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

@Cherub786 Rasool Allah [saww] addressing the Kuffar who were killed in the battle of Badr Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: “The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: “Have

@Cherub786 so you’re just going to disagree with every comment and not reply to the sufficient evidences we provided. Kind of ironic how we’re talking about the “deaf, [and] blind”.

Obviously not. Obviously yes. Is this really a mainstream thing to do? I don’t think this is haram or shirk, but probably useless. It also doesn’t really make any sense for people who be

Posted Images

  • Advanced Members
14 hours ago, Guest Just the truth said:

Was it? Just a spiritual one and not physical? Please do provide evidence for your conjecture.

Yes, sir. I wonder if I'm able to share my personal website and blog with you on this board. It is www.salvationfromhell.com

If you go to my section on Visions, http://www.salvationfromhell.com/p/visions.html

You will find my two articles proving the Mi'raj was a spiritual journey and vision, and not a corporal ascension with the earthly body.

Briefly, I shall summarize my points here:

Firstly, it is impossible for a corporal body to ascend into the Heavens, much less to Allah Himself, for that would imply that Allah Himself is a corporal, material body.

Secondly, the Ahadith which describe the Mi'raj describe it as a spiritual ascension. They mention that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was sleeping or in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness when the Angel Gabriel came, placed him on the Buraq and ascended with him into the Heavens. There is also a Hadith in Bukhari which states that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم described his Mi'raj into the Heavens as a dream or vision.

Thirdly, the Mi'raj of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ought to be understood and interpreted along the same lines of similar Throne visions of previous Prophets. These are known as Merkaba visions, for example, the spiritual ascension of Mi'raj of the Prophets Micaiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah and Daniel.

Fourthly, if we interpret the Isra and Mi'raj as a physical, corporal event, we run into many problems and difficulties. For example, why is there no historical record from Jerusalem of 124 thousand Prophets coming back from the dead and praying behind Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم at the Temple Mount? Such an amazing event couldn't possibly have transpired without anyone noticing.

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم saw many symbols during the Mi'raj. For example, he saw an old, decrepit woman decked in sparkling jewelry. He was told that this woman is the Dunya. How did the Dunya appear as an old woman wearing jewelry to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم if this was a physical, corporal journey of the earthly body? This and other symbols, like drinking milk instead of wine, etc., demonstrate that the Mi'raj took place in the alam al-mithal or world of similitude. It was not with his earthly, corporal body, but an ascension of his spirit. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
11 hours ago, Ali2196 said:

He’s not the only one both Sunni and Shia scholars say the same thing. Now what about the other Sunni scholars that say the same as what mufti menk mentioned?

 

no disrespect intended but verily you cant fight all the scholars because you choose to believe or not to believe such thing. I’m sick I ask you to make dua for me so allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) heals me this isn’t haram but if you ask Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to make dua it becomes haram because you think he’s dead? 
 

now of coarse only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is who we worship but as mentioned why do we make dua for eachother wouldn’t that become haram yet I can’t ask someone such as the prophet?

I don't object to Ismail Menk being a Mufti on the basis of my difference with him on this issue of Sima al-Mawta (hearing of the deceased). There are other reasons why I don't consider him a Mufti.

I admit that majority of Sunnis, including Barelawis, Deobandis and Salafis, believe that the deceased can hear, but even they differ whether that hearing is absolute or restricted. Ismail Menk, for example, explained that the deceased can hear in a limited sense, and not absolutely.

But another Sunni tradition, known as Deobandi-Panjpiri or Deobandi-Mamati, agree with my belief that the deceased cannot hear whatsoever.

Next, you say that we should only worship Allah, but that you pray or make Du'a to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. But you fail to realize that the very essence and core of worship is prayer and supplication. Therefore, when you pray to Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم you are in fact worshiping him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, power said:

How can  you perceive, when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said you cannot perceive?  And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.

 

Salam,

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Alive, but our physical vision will not perceive Him.  But our heart will perceive Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  Our heart will perceive Nubuwwah and Imamat, because both are alive regardless of whether Prophet and Imams were dead physically.

Since our Prophet and Imams are purified and having pure souls because they are permanently connected to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) directly through Nubuwwah and Imamah, their Souls are alive regardless of their physical status.

Martyrs are those who die and their souls have been purified. So they are alive  just like Souls of Prophets and Imams.  Physically, our vision will not perceived them.

Physical death is separation between body and souls.  Those souls that are not pure will go to barzakh and will undergo purification (punishment to clean up the sins).  Pure souls reach freedom and enjoying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  mercy.  This is called "alive" or not dead.  

Human souls can have "soul to soul" connection while living on this earth.  While we are physically alive, we can have "physical to physical " and "soul to soul" connection to each other.  If we clean our souls according to what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has taught Prophet and Imams, our souls can reach to certain level of purification, and by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) permission, our souls can connect to Pure Souls that are alive (physically dead) such as Ahlulbayt and Martyrs.

Physically, our vision cannot perceive souls of dead person.  But, cleaned heart from souls that show struggle (make major jihad to clean up souls) to follow the footsteps of Ahlulbayt can connect to Pure souls that are alive, by the Permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

We are asked by to make salawats to Prophet and his Family, because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave that permission to connect to Prophet and His Family.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Angels make connection to Prophet and His family, we must do the same, regardless whether Prophet and His family is physically with us or not (33:56).  My understanding of salawat is connection to Prophet and His family.  Because Nubuwwah and Imamat are ticket or mean or wasila to be the servant of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in worshipping Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

That is my understanding, and correct me where i am wrong.

 

Edited by layman
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
11 hours ago, elite said:

Surely Allah causes to hear whom wills. 35:22

Anas b. Malik repoted that Allah's apostle(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) having said

Narrated Anas bin Malik:Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "When (Allah's) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps,..... Sahih al Bukhari  Hadith no:1374

You quoted 35:22 which says Allah causes to hear whom He wills for to hear. But the very same verse goes on to make clear that Allah does not will for the deceased to hear:

"And not equal are the living and the dead. Indeed, Allah causes to hear whom He wills, but you cannot make hear those in the graves"

As for the Hadith you quoted, it apparently contradicts the clear verdict of the Quran that the deceased cannot hear. Therefore, we have to reconcile the Hadith to mean that when footsteps can be heard leaving the grave of the one who has just been buried, that is the time when the two Angels Munkar and Nakir come to the deceased to question him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
8 hours ago, power said:

How can  you perceive, when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said you cannot perceive?  And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.

 

The Ayah doesn't mean that the martyrs are alive in this world. They are alive with a spiritual life in another dimension, that is why Allah says we cannot perceive their life, because it is not a life connected to this world. It is a matter of mushahidah (empirical observation) that the martyrs are not alive in this world. Their corpses eventually decay and that is why they need to be buried in graves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
23 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Who do you consider worthy, and what is your criteria? Have you got 4-5 examples of such people? 

I consider Mufti Munir in the United States a bonafide Mufti, although I'm an adherent of the Hanafi school, and I, generally speaking, take rulings in the Furu from the Hanafi Ulama of the Indian subcontinent, particularly Allamah Khidr Hayat of Bhakkar and Qari Kalim Ullah son of Allamah Ahmad Sa'id Khan of Multan (and not from the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey or Central Asia, because the so-called Hanafi Ulama of those regions are under the control of the State and cannot be trusted)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Just the truth
8 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Yes, sir. I wonder if I'm able to share my personal website and blog with you on this board. It is www.salvationfromhell.com

If you go to my section on Visions, http://www.salvationfromhell.com/p/visions.html

You will find my two articles proving the Mi'raj was a spiritual journey and vision, and not a corporal ascension with the earthly body.

Briefly, I shall summarize my points here:

Firstly, it is impossible for a corporal body to ascend into the Heavens, much less to Allah Himself, for that would imply that Allah Himself is a corporal, material body.

Secondly, the Ahadith which describe the Mi'raj describe it as a spiritual ascension. They mention that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was sleeping or in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness when the Angel Gabriel came, placed him on the Buraq and ascended with him into the Heavens. There is also a Hadith in Bukhari which states that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم described his Mi'raj into the Heavens as a dream or vision.

Thirdly, the Mi'raj of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ought to be understood and interpreted along the same lines of similar Throne visions of previous Prophets. These are known as Merkaba visions, for example, the spiritual ascension of Mi'raj of the Prophets Micaiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah and Daniel.

Fourthly, if we interpret the Isra and Mi'raj as a physical, corporal event, we run into many problems and difficulties. For example, why is there no historical record from Jerusalem of 124 thousand Prophets coming back from the dead and praying behind Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم at the Temple Mount? Such an amazing event couldn't possibly have transpired without anyone noticing.

The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم saw many symbols during the Mi'raj. For example, he saw an old, decrepit woman decked in sparkling jewelry. He was told that this woman is the Dunya. How did the Dunya appear as an old woman wearing jewelry to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم if this was a physical, corporal journey of the earthly body? This and other symbols, like drinking milk instead of wine, etc., demonstrate that the Mi'raj took place in the alam al-mithal or world of similitude. It was not with his earthly, corporal body, but an ascension of his spirit. 

Sir are you a qadiani?? You sure are on their line of thinking, as for your analysis on why it was spiritual rather than physical then why was there a winged horse “buraq”?? Was it a spiritual horse?

Your major blunder is you think/believe prophets are dead contrary to Islamic opinion I don’t need to say no more.

you are a qdiani for sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
9 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

 

Next, you say that we should only worship Allah, but that you pray or make Du'a to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. But you fail to realize that the very essence and core of worship is prayer and supplication. Therefore, when you pray to Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم you are in fact worshiping him.

I never mentioned anything about me praying to a prophet. Only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) like I said a couple times I made this post specifically because some of the Sunni brothers say they are dead and can’t hear yet mufti menk and his followers do. It’s kind of like proving a point and to stop from blaming eachother of someThing they both do. Hey you Shia prophet is dead he can’t hear .... mufti and his followers (Sunni) believes prophet can hear. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
2 minutes ago, Ali2196 said:

I never mentioned anything about me praying to a prophet. Only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) like I said a couple times I made this post specifically because some of the Sunni brothers say they are dead and can’t hear yet mufti menk and his followers do. It’s kind of like proving a point and to stop from blaming eachother of someThing they both do. Hey you Shia prophet is dead he can’t hear .... mufti and his followers (Sunni) believes prophet can hear. 
 

Pardon me, your English is not very good and so I cannot completely understand what you are trying to say. It appeared to me in your previous post that you were arguing that it is valid to pray to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to cure your sickness and the like

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Pardon me, your English is not very good and so I cannot completely understand what you are trying to say. It appeared to me in your previous post that you were arguing that it is valid to pray to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to cure your sickness and the like

Let me rephrase. I don’t pray to anyone but Allah.

 

my argument is Shia say it’s ok to ask prophet to make dua to Allah just like you would ask someone to make dua to Allah to help cure your sickness and some Sunnis refute this.

i shared the video as proof that sunnis (some) do also believe prophet is alive meaning what’s with the hate if Shia believe if prophet is alive. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
1 minute ago, Ali2196 said:

Let me rephrase. I don’t pray to anyone but Allah.

 

my argument is Shia say it’s ok to ask prophet to make dua to Allah just like you would ask someone to make dua to Allah to help cure your sickness and some Sunnis refute this.

i shared the video as proof that sunnis (some) do also believe prophet is alive meaning what’s with the hate if Shia believe if prophet is alive. 

 

Okay I see. Well I completely and utterly disagree with any one, Sunni or Shi'i, who believe the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is alive and that we can request him to make Du'a to Allah on our behalf.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
16 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Okay I see. Well I completely and utterly disagree with any one, Sunni or Shi'i, who believe the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is alive and that we can request him to make Du'a to Allah on our behalf.

Come on man you ruined my (no disagree) record you just love that button lol. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Chuck
3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Okay I see. Well I completely and utterly disagree with any one, Sunni or Shi'i, who believe the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is alive and that we can request him to make Du'a to Allah on our behalf.

Disagree all you like but the Nabi Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Alive in His grave as with ALL prophets as.

Make your own dua ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) YOURSELF........It doesn’t negate prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as being Alive in His grave.

I wonder if you send Salam on the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), if you do then where is it going if you believe in prophets bring dead.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
13 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

The Ayah doesn't mean that the martyrs are alive in this world. They are alive with a spiritual life in another dimension, that is why Allah says we cannot perceive their life, because it is not a life connected to this world. It is a matter of mushahidah (empirical observation) that the martyrs are not alive in this world. Their corpses eventually decay and that is why they need to be buried in graves.

 

( verse 169-170)

And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision

In the above verse We are instructed do not think of them as dead  

A constraint  has been put on the heart, mind and tongue. To think or say to the contrary that goes against the Quran.

Therefore, you view (THINKING) of a spiritual dimension is subjective therefore has no basis. 

The fact that they receive "Provision"  is a testament they are alive physically, and dismantles your idea of spiritual dimension. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Guest Chuck said:

Disagree all you like but the Nabi Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Alive in His grave as with ALL prophets as.

Make your own dua ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) YOURSELF........It doesn’t negate prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as being Alive in His grave.

I wonder if you send Salam on the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), if you do then where is it going if you believe in prophets bring dead.

Salat and Salam upon the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم means you are asking Allah to bless and grant peace to the soul of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. His soul is not in this world, it is in another dimension.

Someone being alive in a grave doesn't make sense. Graves are for the deceased, to bury their corpses. If someone is alive in the grave, you should immediately exhume them from the grave or they will suffocate.

 

Edited by Cherub786
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
1 hour ago, power said:

 

( verse 169-170)

And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision

In the above verse We are instructed do not think of them as dead  

A constraint  has been put on the heart, mind and tongue. To think or say to the contrary that goes against the Quran.

Therefore, you view (THINKING) of a spiritual dimension is subjective therefore has no basis. 

The fact that they receive "Provision"  is a testament they are alive physically, and dismantles your idea of spiritual dimension. 

 

Provision is provided to the Martyrs in another realm. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself explained this when he said the souls of the martyrs are placed in the bellies of green birds and travel about Paradise feeding from its fruits. So he explained that their souls are in Paradise, not in this world. That is among the proofs that the Martyrs are alive in Paradise, not this word.

The verse you quoted says "they are alive with their Lord" it does not say "they are alive with you" or "they are alive in their graves" or "they are alive in the Dunya".

We don't imagine the martyrs are dead because they are alive in another dimension in the Presence of Allah.

If the Martyrs are alive in this world then why are their widows allowed to remarry? Why is their wealth distributed and inherited from? Why are they exempt from coming to the Masjid for Salat al-Jumu'ah?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
14 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Salat and Salam upon the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم means you are asking Allah to bless and grant peace to the soul of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم.

Assalamo Alaika Ayyuhan-Nabiyu wa Rehmatullahe wa Barakatuh.

Where in above sentence one has asked Allah to extend our salam to Prophet?

12 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

We don't imagine the martyrs are dead because they are alive in another dimension in the Presence of Allah.

Where precisely is the presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? In other dimension but not in this world? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
2 minutes ago, Cool said:

Assalamo Alaika Ayyuhan-Nabiyu wa Rehmatullahe wa Barakatuh.

Where in above sentence one has asked Allah to extend our salam to Prophet?

Where precisely is the presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? In other dimension but not in this world? 

 

Peace be upon you, Prophet, and the Mercy of Allah and His blessings

Who is the One that sends peace, mercy and blessings on the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم?

The Hadrah (Divine presence) is in Heaven

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, Cherub786 said:

Peace be upon you, Prophet,

Who said that? Did you asked O Allah send peace on Prophet? Like you ask in durood "Allahumma salli ala..."

2 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Who is the One that sends peace, mercy and blessings on the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم?

:) Why that One commanded you to just move your tongue & say "Salamun Alaikum"? 

Do you think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would not let Prophet know who is the person that is sending salam on him? And would the Prophet reply to that salam to Allah? Peace be upon you O Allah? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
8 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

The Hadrah (Divine presence) is in Heaven

Surah Al-Hadid, Verse 4:
هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ يَعْلَمُ مَا يَلِجُ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَمَا يَخْرُجُ مِنْهَا وَمَا يَنزِلُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ وَمَا يَعْرُجُ فِيهَا وَهُوَ مَعَكُمْ أَيْنَ مَا كُنتُمْ وَاللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ

He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power; He knows that which goes deep down into the earth and that which comes forth out of it, and that which comes down from the heaven and that which goes up into it, and He is with you wherever you are; and Allah sees what you do.
(English - Shakir)

via iQuran

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
45 minutes ago, Cool said:

Who said that? Did you asked O Allah send peace on Prophet? Like you ask in durood "Allahumma salli ala..."

:) Why that One commanded you to just move your tongue & say "Salamun Alaikum"? 

Do you think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would not let Prophet know who is the person that is sending salam on him? And would the Prophet reply to that salam to Allah? Peace be upon you O Allah? 

What are you trying to say? That when we invoke peace on the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم we are not asking Allah but someone else? Please clarify your position.

As for intimating knowledge of who sent salam on the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to him, that is speculation on your part. It is both a possibility and an actuality that peace is invoked upon someone and the مفعول is unaware of who invoked peace upon him. After all, it is a du'a and not merely a greeting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

Peace be upon you, Prophet

You are calling the Prophet directly not Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as Allahumma is absent. So how can it be a dua?

23 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

That when we invoke peace on the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم we are not asking Allah but someone else?

Granter of peace is only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but Salam is not a dua, it is a greeting:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 86:
وَإِذَا حُيِّيتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيُّوا بِأَحْسَنَ مِنْهَا أَوْ رُدُّوهَا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ حَسِيبًا

And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet with a better (greeting) than it or return it; surely Allah takes account of all things.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Mujadila, Verse 8:
أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ نُهُوا عَنِ النَّجْوَىٰ ثُمَّ يَعُودُونَ لِمَا نُهُوا عَنْهُ وَيَتَنَاجَوْنَ بِالْإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَمَعْصِيَتِ الرَّسُولِ وَإِذَا جَاءُوكَ حَيَّوْكَ بِمَا لَمْ يُحَيِّكَ بِهِ اللَّهُ وَيَقُولُونَ فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ لَوْلَا يُعَذِّبُنَا اللَّهُ بِمَا نَقُولُ حَسْبُهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ يَصْلَوْنَهَا فَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ

Have you not seen those who are forbidden secret counsels, then they return to what they are forbidden, and they hold secret counsels for sin and revolt and disobedience to the Apostle, and when they come to you they greet you with a greeting with which Allah does not greet you, and they say in themselves: Why does not Allah punish us for what we say? Hell is enough for them; they shall enter it, and evil is the resort.
(English - Shakir)

 

28 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

It is both a possibility and an actuality that peace is invoked upon someone and the مفعول is unaware of who invoked peace upon him.

Not in the case of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 105:
وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

And say: Work; so Allah will see your work and (so will) His Apostle and the believers; and you shall be brought back to the Knower of the unseen and the seen, then He will inform you of what you did.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Hajj, Verse 78:
وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَٰذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَىٰ وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving as is due to Him; He has chosen you and has not laid upon you an hardship in religion; the faith of your father Ibrahim; He named you Muslims before and in this, that the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you, and you may be bearers of witness to the people; therefore keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and hold fast by Allah; He is your Guardian; how excellent the Guardian and how excellent the Helper!
(English - Shakir)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
4 minutes ago, Cool said:

You are calling the Prophet directly not Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as Allahumma is absent. So how can it be a dua?

Granter of peace is only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but Salam is not a dua, it is a greeting:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 86:
وَإِذَا حُيِّيتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيُّوا بِأَحْسَنَ مِنْهَا أَوْ رُدُّوهَا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ حَسِيبًا

And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet with a better (greeting) than it or return it; surely Allah takes account of all things.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Mujadila, Verse 8:
أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِينَ نُهُوا عَنِ النَّجْوَىٰ ثُمَّ يَعُودُونَ لِمَا نُهُوا عَنْهُ وَيَتَنَاجَوْنَ بِالْإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَمَعْصِيَتِ الرَّسُولِ وَإِذَا جَاءُوكَ حَيَّوْكَ بِمَا لَمْ يُحَيِّكَ بِهِ اللَّهُ وَيَقُولُونَ فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ لَوْلَا يُعَذِّبُنَا اللَّهُ بِمَا نَقُولُ حَسْبُهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ يَصْلَوْنَهَا فَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ

Have you not seen those who are forbidden secret counsels, then they return to what they are forbidden, and they hold secret counsels for sin and revolt and disobedience to the Apostle, and when they come to you they greet you with a greeting with which Allah does not greet you, and they say in themselves: Why does not Allah punish us for what we say? Hell is enough for them; they shall enter it, and evil is the resort.
(English - Shakir)

 

Not in the case of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 105:
وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

And say: Work; so Allah will see your work and (so will) His Apostle and the believers; and you shall be brought back to the Knower of the unseen and the seen, then He will inform you of what you did.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Hajj, Verse 78:
وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَٰذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَىٰ وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving as is due to Him; He has chosen you and has not laid upon you an hardship in religion; the faith of your father Ibrahim; He named you Muslims before and in this, that the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you, and you may be bearers of witness to the people; therefore keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and hold fast by Allah; He is your Guardian; how excellent the Guardian and how excellent the Helper!
(English - Shakir)

 

Just because the word Allahumma is absent does not indicate that Allah is not being asked to send Salat and Salam upon the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. This is both a Du'a and a greeting. Since you already acknowledged that the granter of peace is Allah, then it is only logical that when someone invokes peace upon another, he is making Du'a to Allah for him.

That the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is being addressed in the second person in certain formulations of the Salawat/Durud does not negate the fact it is a Du'a to Allah. For example, "May Allah bless you, O so-and-so" is a Du'a to Allah, though the person you are making Du'a for is being addressed in the second person and not the third person.

As for knowledge, the Verses you quoted are general and not a specific proof that the Prophet is aware of who is invoking peace and greetings upon him after his death. You quoted 9:105 to prove that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم sees our deeds, but it also mentions the Believers. It is a matter of Mushahidah that not all of the Believers are always seeing the deeds of each other, therefore you must be consistent.

Similarly, you quoted 22:78 to prove that the Apostle صلى الله عليه وسلم is a witness over us, but the same verse goes on to say that we, the Believers, are witnesses over the people. Again, it is a matter of Mushahidah that we are not always witnessing the people. Therefore, you must be consistent.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
3 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Provision is provided to the Martyrs in another realm. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself explained this when he said the souls of the martyrs are placed in the bellies of green birds and travel about Paradise feeding from its fruits. So he explained that their souls are in Paradise, not in this world. That is among the proofs that the Martyrs are alive in Paradise, not this word.

The verse you quoted says "they are alive with their Lord" it does not say "they are alive with you" or "they are alive in their graves" or "they are alive in the Dunya".

We don't imagine the martyrs are dead because they are alive in another dimension in the Presence of Allah.

 

 I dont believe I have made this assertion that: they are alive with you" or "they are alive in their graves" or "they are alive in the Dunya". I have not implied or implicated such notion. 

What I am saying is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said:  you cannot perceive also And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision.

We cannot discern in what celestial abode they are occupying, It could be in  physical realm or some other, but for sure we cannot perceive.

Yet extraordinarily you have perceived what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said you cannot this is truly remarkable. 

Is their distinguishable evidence in the Quran that the martyrs are in a physically or a spiritual realm?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

Just because the word Allahumma is absent does not indicate that Allah is not being asked to send Salat and Salam upon the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. This is both a Du'a and a greeting.

It is upon you to prove what you are claiming. I have provided verses to show you that salam is a Islamic greeting. 

Show me any verse which mentions that this greeting is a dua.

1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

Since you already acknowledged that the granter of peace is Allah, then it is only logical that when someone invokes peace upon another, he is making Du'a to Allah for him.

lol, "peace be upon you Prophet" mukhatab is not Allah. Mukhatab is Prophet. How can it be a dua? Are you saying one can "call" someone beside Allah? 

Here is a final blow to your logic:

Surah Yunus, Verse 10:
دَعْوَاهُمْ فِيهَا سُبْحَانَكَ اللَّهُمَّ وَتَحِيَّتُهُمْ فِيهَا سَلَامٌ وَآخِرُ دَعْوَاهُمْ أَنِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Their cry in it shall be: Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be: Peace; and the last of their cry shall be: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
(English - Shakir)

A single decisive verse.

1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

You quoted 9:105 to prove that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم sees our deeds, but it also mentions the Believers

The believers mentioned in there were not like you & me. Do you see my deeds? Or is it the case that your deeds are presented before me? 

Fact is that the believers in both verses i.e., 9:105 & 22:78 are no one else but the 12 Imams who are witness over people (nass).

هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَٰذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

@Cherub786

Shias consider السلام عليكم to be a du'a (as well as a greeting between Muslims) when you discuss anything with people like Cool, ask them to provide proof for their assertion because in one instance they are literal Quranists, then when it suits them they accept any awful translation of any hadith plucked from anywhere, then in your case they will ask you to provide proof of authenticity for any hadith you provide. 

I'm telling you this because you are new here and you are Sunni and for your own general mental health.

Anyway, here is a scholar discussing the salam http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/242_الحدائق-الناضرة-المحقق-البحراني-ج-٩/الصفحة_68#top

Edited by Ali_Hussain
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
8 minutes ago, Cool said:

Surah Yunus, Verse 10:
دَعْوَاهُمْ فِيهَا سُبْحَانَكَ اللَّهُمَّ وَتَحِيَّتُهُمْ فِيهَا سَلَامٌ وَآخِرُ دَعْوَاهُمْ أَنِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Their cry in it shall be: Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be: Peace; and the last of their cry shall be: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
(English - Shakir)

A single decisive verse.

Two words present in this single verse

دَعْوَاهُمْ

تَحِيَّتُهُمْ

I think Ali Hussain can understand little bit Arabic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
11 minutes ago, Cool said:

It is upon you to prove what you are claiming. I have provided verses to show you that salam is a Islamic greeting. 

Show me any verse which mentions that this greeting is a dua.

lol, "peace be upon you Prophet" mukhatab is not Allah. Mukhatab is Prophet. How can it be a dua? Are you saying one can "call" someone beside Allah? 

Here is a final blow to your logic:

Surah Yunus, Verse 10:
دَعْوَاهُمْ فِيهَا سُبْحَانَكَ اللَّهُمَّ وَتَحِيَّتُهُمْ فِيهَا سَلَامٌ وَآخِرُ دَعْوَاهُمْ أَنِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Their cry in it shall be: Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be: Peace; and the last of their cry shall be: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
(English - Shakir)

A single decisive verse.

The believers mentioned in there were not like you & me. Do you see my deeds? Or is it the case that your deeds are presented before me? 

Fact is that the believers in both verses i.e., 9:105 & 22:78 are no one else but the 12 Imams who are witness over people (nass).

هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَٰذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ

 

I already answered your first point, Du'a can be made on behalf of someone in either first, second, or third person. Let me give you simple examples:

First Person: "May Allah bless me"

Second Person: "May Allah bless you, O Zayd"

Third Person: "May Allah bless him"

And now I shall give you examples of Du'a where Allah's Name is not mentioned, but still it is implied that Allah is being invoked:

First Person: "Bless me"

Second Person: "Bless you, O Zayd"

Third Person: "Bless him" or "Bless Zayd"

This really is elementary, I don't know why you can't understand such a simple thing.

Your next logical fallacy is that you are assuming an either/or position regarding the Salat and Salam. In other words, you seem to think it can only be a Du'a or a greeting and not both. Therefore, you are quoting Ayaat which confirm it is a greeting and using that as evidence to disprove it is a Du'a. That is a clear logical fallacy.

Ali_Hussain has already stated: "Shias consider السلام عليكم to be a du'a(as well as a greeting between Muslims)". Both of you claim to be Shi'i, so who is correct?

Finally, you make an unsubstantiated claim that reference to Believers in the Verses you quoted refer exclusively to 12 Imams. Not only have to failed to prove this premise, you have actually expelled everyone who isn't one of the 12 Imams from the category of Believers, which is quite amazing.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
30 minutes ago, power said:

 I dont believe I have made this assertion that: they are alive with you" or "they are alive in their graves" or "they are alive in the Dunya". I have not implied or implicated such notion. 

What I am saying is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said:  you cannot perceive also And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision.

We cannot discern in what celestial abode they are occupying, It could be in  physical realm or some other, but for sure we cannot perceive.

Yet extraordinarily you have perceived what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said you cannot this is truly remarkable. 

Is their distinguishable evidence in the Quran that the martyrs are in a physically or a spiritual realm?

 

Perception of their life is a distinct matter from explaining what kind of life they enjoy. You have confused the two matters by imagining that when I say the martyrs are spiritually alive in Paradise I am perceiving their life (which the Quran declares impossible), whereas I am not perceiving their life but explaining what kind of life they have. Please understand this important distinction.

Secondly, I am not saying the Martyrs are alive in a physical or spiritual realm, I am saying they are alive in Paradise with a spiritual life, meaning their spirits are present in Paradise, and I am rejecting the notion that the Martyrs are alive with their original, earthly bodies or that they are alive in our Earthly realm (this dunya).

Now that I have made this clarification, I can, if you life, prove my thesis that the Martyrs are not alive in this world but they are alive in Paradise with their spirits. If you do not dispute this, then well and good, but if you dispute this, I shall proceed to prove my thesis ان شاء الله

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Therefore, you are quoting Ayaat which confirm it is a greeting and using that as evidence to disprove it is a Du'a. That is a clear logical fallacy.

:) You're claiming that it is a dua, it is up to you to bring evidence from Quran to prove that it is a dua too.

I am using your tools.

4 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Ali_Hussain has already stated: "Shias consider السلام عليكم to be a du'a(as well as a greeting between Muslims)". Both of you claim to be Shi'i, so who is correct?

I don't know this person & I am not interested in what he is saying. At the moment I am discussing a matter with you and giving you another chance to bring evidence from Quran that salam is a dua as you're claiming.

6 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

you make an unsubstantiated claim that reference to Believers in the Verses you quoted refer exclusively to 12 Imams. Not only have to failed to prove this premise, you have actually expelled everyone who isn't one of the 12 Imams from the category of Believers, which is quite amazing

Actually, if you just read 22:78, and if you have a minute intellectual honesty in yourself you can realize that all believers are not chosen ones so the phrase 

هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ not really fits on every believer. Then the phrase مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ, get back to Quran to see another relevant verse:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124:
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.
(English - Shakir)

So this verse (22:78) is exclusively addressing the chosen ones, Imams from the progeny of Ibrahim (عليه السلام). 

Third is the phrase وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ, how can I have expelled every believer while the verse is making believers (i.e., Imams) as the witness over people.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is "Rabb" of nass, Ilah of nass, it includes believers & non believers all. Or would you claim that Allah is only the Rabb of believers, Ilah of believers? 

Very poor approach indeed!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
5 minutes ago, Cool said:

:) You're claiming that it is a dua, it is up to you to bring evidence from Quran to prove that it is a dua too.

I am using your tools.

I don't know this person & I am not interested in what he is saying. At the moment I am discussing a matter with you and giving you another chance to bring evidence from Quran that salam is a dua as you're claiming.

Actually, if you just read 22:78, and if you have a minute intellectual honesty in yourself you can realize that all believers are not chosen ones so the phrase 

هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ not really fits on every believer. Then the phrase مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ, get back to Quran to see another relevant verse:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124:
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.
(English - Shakir)

So this verse (22:78) is exclusively addressing the chosen ones, Imams from the progeny of Ibrahim (عليه السلام). 

Third is the phrase وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ, how can I have expelled every believer while the verse is making believers (i.e., Imams) as the witness over people.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is "Rabb" of nass, Ilah of nass, it includes believers & non believers all. Or would you claim that Allah is only the Rabb of believers, Ilah of believers? 

Very poor approach indeed!

There's no need for me to bring evidence, since you already acknowledged: "Granter of peace is only Allah"

So please define Du'a, then I will demonstrate how invoking salam upon someone is a Du'a to Allah. Half of the work is already done since you've already confessed that "Granter of peace is only Allah"

Next you claim that the Believers mentioned in your select Verses refer exclusively to the 12 Imams. Please present evidence for this.

Your argument from 22:78 is insufficient. Are the 12 Imams the only descendants of Patriarch Abraham? How did you restrict a category which is so broad to refer to only 12 individuals without any clear evidence?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

There's no need for me to bring evidence, since you already acknowledged: "Granter of peace is only Allah"

Well granter of death is also Allah, granter of punishment is also Allah, everything is under his control. To Him belongs the heavens & Earth. And that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has commanded us to greet (tahiyyah) eachother & to supplicate (dua) as well. 

He Himself is Al-Salam, Al-Mo'min, Al-Muhaimin etc. And He Himself is Al-Mumeet, Al-Mudil etc. So everything and every statement is a dua whether or not we direct it towards Him?

Again poor logic.

2 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Your argument from 22:78 is insufficient. 

 It will remain insufficient for you. I am happy that at least now you're not insisting that the believers in these two verses are all Muslims. They are specific group of people who are made witness over humanity (nass) by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). They are the bearers of divine covenant, they are the Ark of Noah, they are the Mowla of believers (man kunto mowla), they are one from thaqalain, they are the bearers of the minniyat of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). They are those who are the certified sadiqeen as per Quran (3:61), they are certified tahireen as per Quran (33:33)

Verse 22:78 is my evidence, as it is not mutashabeh. All you have to do is to produce intellectual honesty & you will get to the truth.

Who else could be the sons of Ibrahim in the times of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for whom Allah has said:

لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ

Who are the chosen ones in the time of Prophet? Who are Tahireen (33:33)? Who are Sadiqeen (3:61)? Who are Imams, Syeds in the time of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? 

If you can but see!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 8/13/2020 at 5:32 AM, Cherub786 said:

You quoted 35:22 which says Allah causes to hear whom He wills for to hear. But the very same verse goes on to make clear that Allah does not will for the deceased to hear:

"And not equal are the living and the dead. Indeed, Allah causes to hear whom He wills, but you cannot make hear those in the graves"

As for the Hadith you quoted, it apparently contradicts the clear verdict of the Quran that the deceased cannot hear. Therefore, we have to reconcile the Hadith to mean that when footsteps can be heard leaving the grave of the one who has just been buried, that is the time when the two Angels Munkar and Nakir come to the deceased to question him.

false statement( not in the quran): Allah does not will for the deceased to hear

False statement(not in the quran): Deceased can not hear.

And not equal are the living and dead. Indeed Allah causes to hear whom he wills(weather living or dead),but you can not make hear those in the graves. 35:22

Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, When the funeral is ready and the men carry it on their shoulders, if the deceased was righteous it will say, 'Present me (hurriedly),' and if he was not righteous, it will say, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are they taking it (me)?' Its voice is heard by everything except man and if he heard it he would fall unconscious."

Sahih al Bukhari Hadith no:1314

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Members
1 minute ago, elite said:

false statement( not in the quran): Allah does not will for the deceased to hear

False statement(not in the quran): Deceased can not hear.

إِنَّكَ لَا تُسْمِعُ ٱلْمَوْتَىٰ وَلَا تُسْمِعُ ٱلصُّمَّ ٱلدُّعَآءَ إِذَا وَلَّوْا۟ مُدْبِرِينَ

Indeed, you will not make the dead hear, nor will you make the deaf hear the call when they have turned their backs retreating (27:80)

فَإِنَّكَ لَا تُسْمِعُ ٱلْمَوْتَىٰ وَلَا تُسْمِعُ ٱلصُّمَّ ٱلدُّعَآءَ إِذَا وَلَّوْا۟ مُدْبِرِينَ

So indeed, you will not make the dead hear, nor will you make the deaf hear the call when they turn their backs, retreating (30:52)

Quote

Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, When the funeral is ready and the men carry it on their shoulders, if the deceased was righteous it will say, 'Present me (hurriedly),' and if he was not righteous, it will say, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are they taking it (me)?' Its voice is heard by everything except man and if he heard it he would fall unconscious."

Sahih al Bukhari Hadith no:1314

I already answered this before

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...