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In the Name of God بسم الله

Openminded clerics

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Guest Gabriella95

Can someone list me some openminded clerics? Some who have debated hijab for women and don’t see why it’s not mandatory? I need this for a friend who is in the process of converting and is very confused about whether she will follow sunni/shia schools. She doesn’t believe in the Hijab (On her head) and thinks it has to be worn by men also if it’s so important.

Can someone provide me with some clerics, islamic philosophers or thinkers that would say the hijab is not and obligation and are more openminded when it comes to women and their rights? I want her to convert into shia islam so i’m trying my bes to provide the best info to her.

I’ve seen the hate on this page so please mind your own business if you find this insulting for some reason!!!

thank you!

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Guest Pschological Warfare
8 hours ago, Guest Gabriella95 said:

Can someone list me some openminded clerics? Some who have debated hijab for women and don’t see why it’s not mandatory? I need this for a friend who is in the process of converting and is very confused about whether she will follow sunni/shia schools. She doesn’t believe in the Hijab (On her head) and thinks it has to be worn by men also if it’s so important.

Can someone provide me with some clerics, islamic philosophers or thinkers that would say the hijab is not and obligation and are more openminded when it comes to women and their rights? I want her to convert into shia islam so i’m trying my bes to provide the best info to her.

I’ve seen the hate on this page so please mind your own business if you find this insulting for some reason!!!

thank you!

Treat the ones looking into the Truth in the same way Muhammad Al- Mustafa ( peace be upon him and his pure progeny) treated the new Muslims. Baby steps- Not everything was instituted on the first day, orders for acts prayers, hajab, fasting etc...came gradually. You are not going to have a 100% practicing Musilms the first day, or the first week, month or year. People have different capacities and they absorb or understand and comprehend at different rate and putting into practice has its own gradual implementation. 

 

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15 hours ago, Guest Gabriella95 said:

Can someone list me some openminded clerics? Some who have debated hijab for women and don’t see why it’s not mandatory? I need this for a friend who is in the process of converting and is very confused about whether she will follow sunni/shia schools. She doesn’t believe in the Hijab (On her head) and thinks it has to be worn by men also if it’s so important.

Can someone provide me with some clerics, islamic philosophers or thinkers that would say the hijab is not and obligation and are more openminded when it comes to women and their rights? I want her to convert into shia islam so i’m trying my bes to provide the best info to her.

I’ve seen the hate on this page so please mind your own business if you find this insulting for some reason!!!

thank you!

:hahaha:

If men were sensitive and less stronger than woman and their mostaches and beard had Pearls to attract woman so much that they can't resist temptations. Men would have surely worn hijabs with niqabs. 

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17 hours ago, Guest Gabriella95 said:

Can someone provide me with some clerics, islamic philosophers or thinkers that would say the hijab is not and obligation and are more openminded when it comes to women and their rights? I want her to convert into shia islam so i’m trying my bes to provide the best info to her.

Salam sis,

just a quick comment. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guides whom He wills so don’t take too much of your time worrying to convince her.

Second, we shouldn’t dilute and find our own middle ground in the religion to convince her and compete with Sunnis. But I agree with taking baby steps.

Speaking as someone who wore the hijab at 17, she shouldn’t be pressured to wear it because people tell her but because God tells her, and not just her but men. Just remember Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) talked about men’s form of hijab before women’s in the Quran (of course it is a different type)

A good channel that helped me in my reversion to Shiasm:

https://www.youtube.com/c/IslamicPulse

It provides good and simple comparison between Sunni and Shia with facts.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

The hijab gets updated but not abolished.

Ok thank you I will install update 50.1 on salat al fajir.

They removed the sujud bug because it was hard for some people.

They also removed the sufi patch which included people dancing to get close to Allah(stw).

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Guest Qais
5 hours ago, Flying_Eagle said:

:hahaha:

If men were sensitive and less stronger than woman and their mostaches and beard had Pearls to attract woman so much that they can't resist temptations. Men would have surely worn hijabs with niqabs. 

Not funny? She said no hate and you’re making fun of her? Why is this post not deleted?

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Guest Gariella95
13 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I'm not trying to slander the guy, but doesn't shaykh Arif of the al-Mahdi institute have quite a liberal opinion about hijab?

Why is it slander to be liberal??? Why is it frowned upon? But thank you I will look hin up

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Guest Gariella95

To everyone. Thank you for your input but that wasn’t my question??? Why can’t we agree that not everyone has the same living situation and point of view in life. Still Allah made islam for everyone not just middle astern culture. It’s not bad to be liberal and it shouldn’t be frowned upon. Let’s embrace our differences and pay attention to the bigger picture. My mom is half mexican half Portuguese and my dad is lebanese and we live under different circumstances than my cousins for example. Ihtiyat is what made islam hard when in fact islam is easy. I want her to see that shiaislam can be liberal and modern and yes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will Do what’s meant for her but I wanna give it a go.

 

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35 minutes ago, Guest Qais said:

Not funny? She said no hate and you’re making fun of her? Why is this post not deleted?

Am I hating? I am giving you food for thought. Besides, some extremely handsome pious men did  hide themselves. Hazrat Yusuf (عليه السلام) for instance in prison and Hazrat Musa Burqiya, one of beautiful brother of our Imams concealed his face. 

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38 minutes ago, Guest Gariella95 said:

Why is it slander to be liberal??? Why is it frowned upon? But thank you I will look hin up

Because generally speaking there isn't a debate about hijab, so say that someone says it isn't obligatory is slandering them.

There are many people who know that it is obligatory but still don't wear it, in the same way that many people know that x y or z is a sin but still do it, you don't need to find excuses for something, just consider yourself a work in progress.

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44 minutes ago, Guest Gariella95 said:

Why is it slander to be liberal??? Why is it frowned upon? But thank you I will look hin up

Because generally what it means to be a liberal in this setting is to pick and choose the facts in order to come to a pre-determined conclusion. And somehow these people always magically seem to come to conclusions that exactly conform to the mores of modern Western society, or at least as close as they can get without making themselves look completely ridiculous.

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Guest Molana Laddan

Dear OP... try this.

Islam is one part belief and one part practice.

Please tell your friend to first pick the belief part. That’s One God, no concept of He having son or being in someone’s body, or being limited in time or space. Then when He created you, He wanted to nourish you physically and spiritually. That spiritual part is why He sent Guides (call them Prophets and Imams). Then once He gave all those uncountable blessings, He wants us to be accountable of how we used those, call this Judgement Day. 
 

That’s it.. She is Muslim. Anybody should become Muslim only on these above premises. If there are ever other reasons, then they would go out of Islam as easy they came in (this is true for born Muslims too). 
 

Now comes the second part, which is Practices: ‘Tis includes salat, fasting, Hajj, charity (Khums and Zakat), Hijab, eating halal, beard for men, chastity, etc. 

Here’s an easy way to go about it. Let her grow and feel the love for Allah in her heart. Beliefs would do that, practices won’t. Once she becomes the Lover (of Allah), Hijab and other things would become non-issues. A lover does what the object of love (Allah) wants, not what heart tells or what others think!!! 
 

 

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Posted (edited)

I agree with 

7 hours ago, Guest Molana Laddan said:

Please tell your friend to first pick the belief part.

That’s what helped me get closer in deen. Working on your internal first. Hijab for example is only and external manifestation of your internal hijab and modesty. What is the hijab other than a piece of cloth if your attitude and behaviour is rubbish and immodest?

 

10 hours ago, Guest Gariella95 said:

To everyone. Thank you for your input but that wasn’t my question??? Why can’t we agree that not everyone has the same living situation and point of view in life. Still Allah made islam for everyone not just middle astern culture. It’s not bad to be liberal and it shouldn’t be frowned upon. Let’s embrace our differences and pay attention to the bigger picture. My mom is half mexican half Portuguese and my dad is lebanese and we live under different circumstances than my cousins for example. Ihtiyat is what made islam hard when in fact islam is easy. I want her to see that shiaislam can be liberal and modern and yes Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will Do what’s meant for her but I wanna give it a go.

Look sis I get your where your coming from to an extent. Being liberal and practicing Islam fully is not paradoxical. All these terms like “modern Muslim” or “modern hijab” make me cringe because Islam is already balanced and putting our input just gentrifies Islam and dilutes it according to Western ideals.
 

However, that doesn’t mean I’m asking you to tell your friend to wear hijab straight away and put on a jilbab. Everyone has their time, but what you should be focusing on is building her deen from within. All those external stuff will come later naturally. Don’t abandon those external stuff such as hijab etc but make it understood when building her knowledge about Islam from a spiritual aspect why stuff like this is ordained from a logical standpoint. I’m not saying this to annoy you, I’m saying this because I’ve been there so I know what works and what doesn’t.

And yeah I get you, Islam is not just Middle Eastern culture. I see your point where sometimes culture overrides Islam. And that is wrong. However, Islam and culture don’t contradict unless culture contradicts with Islamic values and I can say this applies in wanting to liberalise Islam at the cost of abandoning ordained practices.


Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best in making her heart guide her to the truth and has already balanced Islam for all times and cultures. Instead of trying to “liberalise Islam”, which you must know is a Western Orientalist attitude of thinking Islam needs “reform and revolution”, just focus on baby steps instead.

This is said all out of love so I hope you see it that way. I’m not trying to be condescending or anything, I’m just giving my input because I used to have the same mindset.

Ma salam sis.

Edited by Mariam17
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Islam is just Islam. You shouldn't give so much importance to liberalism or "open-mindedness", we only do what we believe is the correct thing to do. If you try to balance two diverging beliefs then somewhere down the line something will get compromised. Right now you're looking for a cleric that has the specific answer you want, that is a very dangerous thing to do. Liberalism doesn't necessarily have to be wrong, it just doesn't apply to us. With my current beliefs, I'd be considered conservative, but the same exact beliefs would be considered ultra liberal 1500 years ago at the advent of Islam

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Guest Gabriella95

Well, I will never post here again it was obviously a mistake. I asked a question and only two people of all the people who commented gave me an answer for what I asked for. Please bear in mind that we are ALL different and this site should be for everyone so that we can lift each other up not only for the people Who are orthodox - if you don’t agree with what I asked for or more importantly dont have an ANSWER then please don’t add your 5 cents to my post.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Guest Gabriella95 said:

Well, I will never post here again it was obviously a mistake. I asked a question and only two people of all the people who commented gave me an answer for what I asked for. Please bear in mind that we are ALL different and this site should be for everyone so that we can lift each other up not only for the people Who are orthodox - if you don’t agree with what I asked for or more importantly dont have an ANSWER then please don’t add your 5 cents to my post.

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder. From the start of this thread you mentioned the ‘hate’ you have supposedly seen on here, and now you are acting like you’ve been attacked or something. It’s a public forum, so people will naturally give their views, but they haven’t been rude. What many have tried to explain is that the question you have asked is in itself problematic and will stir up trouble for later. They are actually trying to help you and your friend. I don’t know why you’ve chosen to take it so badly.

If someone posted on a medical forum that they really disliked the ‘hate’ alternative therapies get in the Western medical community, and wanted a recommendation for an ‘open minded’ doctor who promoted such things, would it be responsible to just point them in the direction of a few quacks and let them get on with it?

As it is, you’ve been given a couple of names. The fact that you haven’t got more is reflective of the fact that this is an extremely minority opinion, which should probably tell you all you need to know.

As for this idea of getting someone to convert to Shia Islam based on finding some scholar with a dodgy opinion on hijab, that is frankly disgusting. You don’t chose to convert to a religion for those kinds of reasons. No respectable Sunni scholar would say the hijab isn’t mandatory either.

As has already been suggested, a much healthier approach would just to acknowledge that hijab is mandatory, but that you aren’t strong enough to wear it at the moment, and see it as something to work on for the future. Plenty of Muslims live with all kinds of struggles, and obviously many Muslim women don’t wear the hijab.

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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10 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

As it is, you’ve been given a couple of names. The fact that you haven’t got more is reflective of the fact that this is an extremely minority opinion, which should probably tell you all you need to know.

The only individual I have seen with any legitimacy who believes that the Hijab isn't wajib, is Ahmed Qabil, who believes it is mustahab. Not that it matters anyways, because we can only follow the Maraji ('alim mujtahid with published risalah).

Source:

 

 

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Guest SushiWoman
On 8/11/2020 at 1:44 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

As for this idea of getting someone to convert to Shia Islam based on finding some scholar with a dodgy opinion on hijab, that is frankly disgusting. You don’t chose to convert to a religion for those kinds of reasons. No respectable Sunni scholar would say the hijab isn’t mandatory either."

As has already been suggested, a much healthier approach would just to acknowledge that hijab is mandatory, but that you aren’t strong enough to wear it at the moment, and see it as something to work on for the future.

Salam, I just want to adress your comment. You say nobody has been rude. What do you call your comment? Be aware of your words because they can hurt even though you didn't mean to hurt anyone. 

A public forum doesn't equal rudeness. I respect shia schools but this reminds me of af subreddit r/islam. Rude people everywhere.

You can be respectable and NOT mandate the hijab. Hijab is a fabric to cover the hair not a free ticket to jannah. Personally I don't wear it and there are plenty of sunni thinkers (RESPECTABLE thinkers) who doesn't mandate it because it's simply not to be found in the Quran. You and the major scholars making it compulsory doesn't make it the only right. We should all think for ourselves despite of what the mainstream thinks - both society (the west) and our scholars.

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On 8/12/2020 at 9:26 AM, Guest SushiWoman said:

Salam, I just want to adress your comment. You say nobody has been rude. What do you call your comment? Be aware of your words because they can hurt even though you didn't mean to hurt anyone. 

Wa alaikum as-salaam,

I don’t see what was rude about my comment in the context of what the original poster had been saying. You can’t keep making unfounded accusations and not expect some pushback.

On 8/12/2020 at 9:26 AM, Guest SushiWoman said:

A public forum doesn't equal rudeness. I respect shia schools but this reminds me of af subreddit r/islam. Rude people everywhere.

Could you point out some of these other rude comments?

On 8/12/2020 at 9:26 AM, Guest SushiWoman said:

You can be respectable and NOT mandate the hijab. Hijab is a fabric to cover the hair not a free ticket to jannah. Personally I don't wear it and there are plenty of sunni thinkers (RESPECTABLE thinkers) who doesn't mandate it because it's simply not to be found in the Quran. You and the major scholars making it compulsory doesn't make it the only right. We should all think for ourselves despite of what the mainstream thinks - both society (the west) and our scholars.

Who are these ‘respectable Sunni thinkers’? I never said you can’t be respectable and not wear the hijab, but it is a sin according to orthodox interpretations of Islam. Quran-onlyism, which rejects the Sunnah is itself against the Qur’an, and is not a coherent interpretation of the religion. And if someone doesn’t reject the Sunnah, then it’s completely incoherent to reject something as well-established as the hijab, which clearly dates from the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

I don’t disagree with you at all that we should think for ourselves, but we should be objective about it as well. When I was younger, and before I started learning more about Islam, I also believed hijab wasn’t obligatory (for the same reason you cite), and used to strongly argue against it. I didn’t want it to be obligatory, not because it personally would have affected me, but it just didn’t fit in with how I thought things should be. So I can only imagine how much more strongly I would have felt about it had it been something I had to wear myself. Nevertheless you have to be intellectually consistent, and use the same standards of evidence for hijab as anything else. And quite frankly, if we can’t trust the Islamic tradition to be correct about the hijab, then I’m not sure we can trust it on anything. Who knows? Maybe we are wrong about praying five times a day? I don’t think that’s explicitly in the Qur’an either, and it is a hassle.

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