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In the Name of God بسم الله

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  • Advanced Member

For example,

hadith 1) Imam says: I grant life and death and give sustenance.

hadith 2) Imam says: Only Allah grants life and death and gives sustence.

How is hadith 2 in contradiction to the Quran? When there are clear cut verses that emphasize this?

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Brother, it’s impossible to win an argument with the ghulat. They don’t conform to the same standards of evidence or respect for rationality that you do. Their methodology is simple: if they like the

Started a new thread for this since I am baffled and the other thread is going in different directions. @randomly curious stated that ghuluw is only calling Imams as God. Everything else is game on. W

There is no one matched to him. He is the first and the last. So only he is eternal.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, 786:) said:

For example,

hadith 1) Imam says: I grant life and death and give sustenance.

hadith 2) Imam says: Only Allah grants life and death and gives sustence.

How is hadith 2 in contradiction to the Quran? When there are clear cut verses that emphasize this?

i had already Posted a Narration in a different thread which precisely explains this concept. and that reply was particularly to you only.

 

wait, let me post that once again

 

Amir-ul-Momineen (عليه السلام): Indeed, the Lord of the Spirit and the Angels is the most Praise-worthy and the most Dignified, and is the Lord of ‘Quds’, the most Respectable and has 
the eternal status. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Knows all about each and every species and similarly Knows that I have never ever doubted Him. 

 


Non-believer: What you have said, is more than sufficient for me.
Amir-ul-Momineen (عليه السلام): I would like to give an explanation to your questions. One cannot do any good except after getting inspiration from Allah (عزّ وجلّ). I fully rely (Tuwakkil) on Him, seek His blessings and all those who seek nobility turn towards Him. 

 


Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Says: Allah Takes back life at the time of their death
 


And Says: The angel of Death takes life away from you, and our Prophets take life away. And those are the righteous who meet their death by the hands of our angels. And also those who are killed by the angels are those who have indulged themselves in inappropriate matters. 


Thus, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is so Elevated and Great that it is inappropriate that He would Himself perform such tasks, therefore He refers those tasks to Himself which are conducted by His angels and His Prophets, on His behalf as they act purely on His instructions. Thus Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has decided to create, among His creations some angels and messengers, and for whom Allah (عزّ وجلّ):Says: 

 

Thus a devotee’s soul will be taken away by the kind angels whereas a sinner’s soul is removed by the angels of wrath.

 

Both angels of Blessings and Wrath are helpers of ‘Malakul Moat’ (The angel of death). They just carry out Allah (عزّ وجلّ)’s Commands, thus their actions are referred to His actions. As other angels’ actions are the actions of Angel of death, similarly, the work of Angel of death is the work of Allah because it is Him who chooses the means to bring death onto someone, or to stop it or to extend life or/and gives the rewards or the punishment. Indeed, the tasks of His trustees are His tasks. As Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Says:


You would never desire for until and unless Allah wants it,

 


And Says: Who carried out ‘Amal-ul-Salay’ is a Momin.

 

Thus, do not be disobedient in the striving of the good deeds.

 

And also Says: ‘He who repented, accepted ‘Eman’, carried out ‘Amal-e-Salay’ and thus found ‘Guidance’, will be forgiven.

Edited by randomly curious
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Guest PsYchological Warfare

Five time a Day We announce (Link)  Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu'minina 'Aliyyan Waliyyullah ( I testify that the Commander of the faithful, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the vicegerent of Allah)

 

My Layman understanding ( link) Tawheed

 

Ghulat ( link) Classical Scholars and According to Jurists

 

"..Ghulat (i.e. those who believe one of the holy twelve Imams to be God or say that God has penetrated into him)..."

Ayatullah Abul Qasim al-Khu'i.

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/impure-things-najasat#infidel

"..Ghulat who believe in any of the holy twelve Imams as God, or that they are incarnations of God.."

Ayatullah al-Sayyid Ali al-Hussani al-Sistani.

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2132/

"ghulÁt—those who believe in the divinity of an Imam or believe that God dwells within their bodies—"

ÀyatullÁh al-‘UÛmÁ Shaykh Íusain WaÎÐd KhurÁsÁnÐ

Page 35

http://wahidkhorasani.com/Data/Books/ISLAMIC LAWS.pdf

Now 

Ones who use classical Scholars understanding of the issue of that time, should also consider the view of the classical Scholars regarding the Status (Link) Why the Almighty Allah ordered angels to prostrate before Adam ((عليه السلام).)?

Or you are just cherry picking what suits your narrative. 

Or if you are a follower of the leader of Tragedy of Thursday, who claimed’ Book is sufficient” meaning Thank you very much( mailman) , we now have the ball in our hands we will define what is Islam not you. And propagate the narrative of you were just a common man used for delivery, To them Everything is Exaggeration ( Ghulat) .

If your understanding of A iis 10 and our is infinite . 

If your understanding of M is 1 and our is 100

If we say M is 100 you will classify it as Exaggeration.

Subjective interpretations were/are/will be used to divide and conquer. 

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  • Advanced Member
6 hours ago, Guest PsYchological Warfare said:

Not all of us. Some of us have reached the conclusion that it’s an innovation. Refer to the other threads for it. :)

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Ghuluw is calling the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imams (عليه السلام) Allah or attributing certain attributes of Allah to them.

For example, Allah is Al-Raheem but calls the Prophet Raheem in 9:128 so this is not a problem.

However there are certain attributes of Allah that are only His. There are positive attributes (Sifaat Thabutiyah) and negative attributes (Sifaat Salbiyah) that solely belong to Allah and attributing those to Prophet or Imams is ghuluw.

Common Thabutiyah (https://www.al-islam.org/elements-islamic-studies-allamah-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/lesson-10-al-sifat-al-thubutiyah):

1. Qadeem. This means that Allah is Eternal, i.e. He has neither a beginning nor an end.

2. Qaadir. It means that Allah is Omnipotent, i.e. He has power over everything, and every affair.

3. ‘Aalim. It means that Allah is Omniscient i.e. He knows everything. Nothing ever remains a secret from Him.

4. Hayy. It means that Allah is alive and will remain alive for ever.

5. Mureed. This means that Allah has His own discretion in all affairs. He does not do anything under compulsion.

6. Mudrik. It means that He is All-Perceiving, as Sami’ (All-Hearing), Baseer (All-Seeing), Haazir (Omnipresent). Allah sees and hears everything though He has neither eyes nor ears.

7. Mutakallim. It means that Allah is the Master of the word, i.e. He can create speech in anything as He did in a tree for Prophet Musa ((عليه السلام).) and in the "Curtain of Light" for the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).)

8. Sadiq. This means that Allah is true in His words and promises.

Sifaat Thalbiyah (https://www.al-islam.org/elements-islamic-studies-allamah-saeed-akhtar-rizvi/lesson-11-al-sifat-al-salbiyah):

1. Shareek. The word "Shareek'" means a colleague or a partner. Allah has neither a colleague nor a partner in His Divinity.

2. Murakkab. This word means "compound" or "mixed". Allah is neither made, nor composed, of any material. He cannot be divided even in the imagination.

3. Makaan. It means "place". Allah is not confined to a place for He has no jism (body).

4. Hulool. It means "entering". Nothing enters Allah nor does He enter anything or anybody. Therefore, the belief of Incarnation in any form is abhorrent to the conception of Divinity.

5. Mahall al-hawadith. This means "subject to changes". Allah cannot change.

6. Mar’i. It means "visible". Allah is not visible. He has not been seen, is not seen and will never be seen, because He is not a body.

7. Ihtiyaj. It means "dependence" or "need". Allah is not deficient in any virtue, so he does not need anything.

8. Al-sifat al-zaa’id. This means "added attributes". The attributes of Allah are not separate from His Being. For example, we say that Allah is ‘Alim, but it does not mean that His Knowledge is something separate from His Existence. In fact, there has never been a time when he is less ‘Alim and then acquired more knowledge. His Knowledge, His Mercy, His Justice and all His virtues and attributes are His Own Being.

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