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In the Name of God بسم الله

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5 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

-Mahdavist 2020

Actually it's the basic definition of tawatur. 

1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly said that he has enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam (Masoomeen (عليه السلام)

Imamim mubeen: singular

Ma'soomeen: plural

It helps to have a basic understanding of arabic grammar.

1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

and who are angels? perspiration of the visitor of Aba Abdillah Al Hussain (عليه السلام)? 

I already corrected your mistranslation and additions to the words of hadith via PM. The term 'perspiration' was introduced by you and wasn't present in the narration you brought forward.

1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

come one bro! you need to accept these things with a open heart instead of relying on fabricated stuff.

 

Why would I take reinterpretations from you when we already have a clear description of ghuluw from our aimmah (عليه السلام)? 

If you claim the narrations are fabricated then bring forward the authentic narrations where the aimmah have described ghuluw and the ghulat.

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Brother, it’s impossible to win an argument with the ghulat. They don’t conform to the same standards of evidence or respect for rationality that you do. Their methodology is simple: if they like the

Started a new thread for this since I am baffled and the other thread is going in different directions. @randomly curious stated that ghuluw is only calling Imams as God. Everything else is game on. W

There is no one matched to him. He is the first and the last. So only he is eternal.

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12 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Imamim mubeen: singular

Ma'soomeen: plural

It helps to have a basic understanding of arabic grammar.

i appreciate your twisting skills, but according to alot of Narrations as soon as an Imam (عليه السلام) is about to pass away, the next Imam (عليه السلام) inherits his knowledge.

 

and I've posted many Narrations which state that why will Allah (عزّ وجلّ) neccessitate the obedience to a servent from whom the Heavens and the earth are Veiled.

 

and as for your twists,

 

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) says in surah Dahr 

 

And you are not desiring except if Allah so Desires. Surely Allah was always Knowing, Wise [76:30]

 

here too Allah (awaj) mentioned you=singular.

 

but tafseer clearly says, Imams=plural.

 

‘Abu Al-Hassan (عليه السلام) The Third, having said: ‘Surely, Allahazwj has Made the hearts of the Imams (عليه السلام) as resources of His Will, and when He(عزّ وجلّ) Desires something, they a.a do so (as well), and these are the Words of the Exalted: And you are not desiring except if Allah so Desires [76:30]’.

 

(65:مختصر بصائر الدرجات: )

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20 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I already corrected your mistranslation and additions to the words of hadith via PM. The term 'perspiration' was introduced by you and wasn't present in the narration you brought forward.

that was a different Narration from al qatra. and that was regarding the prophets (عليه السلام)

 

this Narration from basaair al darajaat mentioned the word perspiration. and it is regarding the angels

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Why would I take reinterpretations from you when we already have a clear description of ghuluw from our aimmah (عليه السلام)? 

what is ghuluw according to the Narrations you brought? Saying Imams (عليه السلام) can create, makes us a ghaali? would you apply this criteria on prophet eeesaa (عليه السلام) too? whilst he practically created a bird.

 

25 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

If you claim the narrations are fabricated then bring forward the authentic narrations where the aimmah have described ghuluw and the ghulat.

even you know you won't accept the Narrations i will post and label them weak in front of the readers. that's the reason to deviate the readers, you've typed this on purpose. and in the very beginning I've posted them already. so you've been caught now.

Edited by randomly curious
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54 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

brother I've already said many times that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is All-knowing because He knows  every knowledge by his own. Masoomeen (عليه السلام) aren't All-knowing because they've been taught by Allah (عزّ وجلّ)

I agree.

54 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

are you trying to say Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can create another Allah but cannot put his knowledge in 73 letters?

despite that he is Al-Qadir?

I didn't say Allah can make another Allah. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the only one who knows how he keeps his knowledge, unless he told anyone else.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

The answer is no. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not created. So If he created another "god", than there is a difference. This "god" is created while Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not created.

well, you did say "if he created another God". this is clear that you agreed with the possibility.

 

and if you didn't said that, Narration says that.

 

He already told his creation through the tongue of Masoomeen (عليه السلام) which is metaphorically his tongue.

Edited by randomly curious
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19 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

And you are not desiring except if Allah so Desires. Surely Allah was always Knowing, Wise [76:30]

 

here too Allah (awaj) mentioned you=singular.

Actually it's not singular. The word used is tashaaoona (plural tense). 

What you refer to as 'twists' are basic rules of grammar. 

23 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

this Narration from basaair al darajaat mentioned the word perspiration

What is the word for perspiration in arabic?

20 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

what is ghuluw according to the Narrations you brought?

Go back to the post and read them, the aimmah (عليه السلام) have described it in clear terms.

22 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

even you know you won't accept the Narrations i will post and label them weak in front of the readers

Bring them forward, we will see whether they're weak or not. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Bring them forward, we will see whether they're weak or not. 

 

12 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Go back to the post and read them, the aimmah (عليه السلام) have described it in clear terms.

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Actually it's not singular. The word used is tashaaoona (plural tense). 

ok, that's just according to you. still, let us keep this aside. according to the Narrations, whenever an Imam (عليه السلام) is about to pass away, the next Imam (عليه السلام) inherits his knowledge.

 

 

why would i care about that? :hahaha:

i did explain to you through PM concept of how any why Calling it perspiration should not be a problem if you remember.

Edited by randomly curious
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Posted (edited)

@Mahdavist only because you're insisting,

 

 

 

obviously i cannot type each and every Narration word to word.

 

and if i ain't or may be i am mastaken, you don't understand Urdu /Hindi language.

 

please ask a brother/sister to translate the video for you. even we will see if you're truly dedicated to know that or not.

Edited by randomly curious
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6 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

ok, that's just according to you

I didn't make the rules of grammar brother. Even a child studying elementary arabic can tell you that تَشاءونَ conjugated for the second person (you) plural.

With due respect if you can't read the Qur'an you should avoid trying to have linguistic debates about it's verses.

3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

obviously i cannot type each and every Narration word to word.

Your evidence is some random brother on a youtube video who doesn't even understand the language of the narrations he is presenting? 

If you're serious bring proper evidence. You've already been corrected on mistranslations a few times by various members, and somehow you were misinformed that 76:30 was in the singular person. 

This is why you need to bring proper references.

Bring forward the narrations of the aimmah (عليه السلام) on ghulu and we will discuss them inshaAllah. You have rejected the ones that were already shared (without any real reason) , so now bring forward what you think is authentic. 

If you're still trying to claim that the narrations were not in line with the Qur'an then I direct you to verse 50 of suratul an'am. 

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27 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

i did explain to you through PM concept of how any why Calling it perspiration should not be a problem if you remember.

And you will remember that I explained to you that none of the words you were referring to (body, perspiration etc) were present in the narration and that they were all your own additions. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I didn't make the rules of grammar brother. Even a child studying elementary arabic can tell you that تَشاءونَ conjugated for the second person (you) plural.

With due respect if you can't read the Qur'an you should avoid trying to have linguistic debates about it's verses.

ok, as i already said, let us keep this aside and come towards the Narrations. according to the Narrations, if an Imam (عليه السلام) is about to pass away, the next Imam (عليه السلام) inherits his knowledge.

 

22 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Your evidence is some random brother on a youtube video who doesn't even understand the language of the narrations he is presenting? 

Lol brother. even you know I won't be able to type everything in. i don't really see any dedication by you bro.

 

why did you too accept the fabricated Narrations you brought which were in english? I've already proved the contradiction from the Holy Qur'an for your Narrations.

22 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Bring forward the narrations of the aimmah (عليه السلام) on ghulu and we will discuss them inshaAllah. You have rejected the ones that were already shared (without any real reason) , so now bring forward what you think is authentic. 

without any real reason? again I'll ask you, does believing that Imams (عليه السلام) can create makes us a ghaali? and if eesaa (عليه السلام) can create with a single drop from the ocean, Masoomeen (عليه السلام) can't? will you use that criteria for a prophet names eesa (عليه السلام) too?

as for sustenance, I've posted 5 verses in which Allah (عزّ وجلّ) says He is best of the providers. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) himself addresses that there's someone providing sustenance to his creation, and you're telling me to believe in your forged Narrations? 

 

i already brought forward the video. you should at least give it a try. 

22 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

If you're still trying to claim that the narrations were not in line with the Qur'an then I direct you to verse 50 of suratul an'am. 

ok i read verse 50 from surah An'am

 

Say: ‘I am not saying to you all there are treasures of Allah with me nor do I know the unseen, nor am I saying to you I am an Angel. Surely I follow only what is Revealed unto me’. Say: ‘Are they alike, the blind and the seeing one? Are you not thinking?’ [6:50]

 

i never said the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) knows the unseen. i did write many times that the letter in which unseen has been kept is Veiled from the Masoomeen (عليه السلام). but the difference is the Holy Qur'an also says there are keys to the unseen in it. and according to many Narrations, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has revealed for them the knowledge till the day of judgement

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4 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

And you will remember that I explained to you that none of the words you were referring to (body, perspiration etc) were present in the narration and that they were all your own additions. 

i do. but if you don't remember, that later i quoted a Narration from Ayn Al Hayat which said, "drops fell from his head".

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3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

why did you too accept the fabricated Narrations you brought which were in english? I've already proved the contradiction from the Holy Qur'an for tour Narrations

How do they contradict the Qur'an? Refer to 6:50 

Fully consistent.

4 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

i never said the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) knows the unseen. i did write many times that the letter in which unseen has been kept is Veiled from the Masoomeen (عليه السلام). but the difference is the Holy Qur'an also says there are keys to the unseen in it. and according to many Narrations, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has revealed for them the knowledge till the day of judgement

You still seem to be jumping back and forth on whether to accept Quranic verses or whether to ignore them in favour of narrations (without knowing anything about their reliability)

This is why I have consistently questioned you about your methodology and you consistently ducked the question. 

You also seem to be jumping back and forth on whether the ma'soomeen had knowledge of the unseen or they didnt. In one instance you will say they did because the Qur'an says so (your own interpretation), then you claim they did and Allah did and the only difference is that they were taught (your own claim) and then you jump to the narration about 73 parts of knowledge claiming they have nearly all the knowledge.

You need to make up your mind on whether they (عليه السلام) possess the knowledge of all things or not. 

You are continuously contradicting yourself. My humble suggestion is that you take some time out to reflect upon these points and study them before jumping into debates and stubbornly trying to defend arguments that you aren't even sure of yourself (contradicting yourself in the process and posting false translations of hadeeth and incorrect grammatical statements about the Qur'an. Know that this isn't a light matter and there are serious consequences for distorting such things). 

12 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

 

 

i already brought forward the video. you should at least give it a try. 

I am giving it a try. The guy is quoting from an urdu translation of al khisaal and switches between urdu and punjabi when he speaks. I just hope his translations are more reliable than some of yours which turned out to be false.

In any case, if you want to have a serious discussion then you really shouldn't be presenting this video as your evidence...

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56 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

well, you did say "if he created another God". this is clear that you agreed with the possibility.

 

and if you didn't said that, Narration says that.

 

He already told his creation through the tongue of Masoomeen (عليه السلام) which is metaphorically his tongue.

I said If he did, IF there was a possibility 

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17 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

i do. but if you don't remember, that later i quoted a Narration from Ayn Al Hayat which said, "drops fell from his head".

No you didnt quote a narration you just claimed there was one somewhere in Hayat al Quloob. 

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1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

You still seem to be jumping back and forth on whether to accept Quranic verses or whether to ignore them in favour of narrations (without knowing anything about their reliability)

This is why I have consistently questioned you about your methodology and you consistently ducked the question.

i do accept that Masoomeen (عليه السلام) do not know the unseen on thier own

 

and if they (عليه السلام) wish to, they can. how? because they have the keys to it. and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) reveals it to them.

3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

You also seem to be jumping back and forth on whether the ma'soomeen had knowledge of the unseen or they didnt. In one instance you will say they did because the Qur'an says so (your own interpretation), then you claim they did and Allah did and the only difference is that they were taught (your own claim) and then you jump to the narration about 73 parts of knowledge claiming they have nearly all the knowledge.

My own interpretation? what about verses from surah jinn? you always try to derive a belief by  not keeping everything in front.

 

Say: ‘I don’t know if it is near, what you are being Threatened (with), or 
whether my Lord has Made a term for it [72:25]

 

(He is) Knower of the unseen, and He does not Reveal His hidden matters upon anyone [72:26]


Except one He Chooses from a Rasool, for He would Make a guard to travel in front of him and from behind him [72:27]


For Him to Know that they have delivered the Messages of their Lord, and He Encompasses whatever is with them, and He Counts the number of all things[72:28]

 

Ali Bin Ibrahim said, ‘Muhammad Bin Hamaam narrated to us from Ja’far Bin Muhammad Bin Malik, from Ja’far Bin Abdullah, from Muhammad Bin Umar, from Abad Bin Saheyb, who has said:


‘Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), from his father:


 ‘They (Quraysh) said, ‘So when will that take place?’ Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Said to Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):


 Say: ‘I don’t know if it is near, what you are being Threatened (with), or whether my Lord has Made a term for it [72:25]

 

 (He is) Knower of the unseen, and He does not Reveal His hidden matters upon anyone [72:26] 


Except one He Chooses from a Rasool, for He would Make a guard to travel in front of him and from behind him [72:27] 


Meaning Ali (عليه السلام), the chosen one from the Rasool, and he (عليه السلام) is from him (prophet).

 

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Said: for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him. 


He (عليه السلام) said:

 

‘In his (prophet)'s heart is the Knowledge, and one behind him is the guard who knows his Knowledge, and he (Ali) distributes the Knowledge with a distribution, and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Taught him (عليه السلام) by inspiration.

 

And the guard, is the teacher from the Prophet, For Him to Know [72:28], the Prophet (عليه السلام), that they have delivered the Messages of their Lord, and He – Ali (عليه السلام), 


Encompasses whatever is with the Rasool from the Knowledge, and He 
Counts the number of all things [72:28] – whatever has happened since the day Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Created Adam (عليه السلام) up to the Establishment of the Hour – from either a Fitna, or an earthquake, or a submergence, or eruption, or a community destroyed in the past or would be destroyed in the future, and how may tyrannical or just imams there would be. 


He (عليه السلام) recognises him by his name and his lineage.

 

And whether one would be dying a (natural) death, or killed by a killing, and how many Imams would be abandoned, not being harmed by the abandonment of the one who abandons him (عليه السلام), and how many Imams (عليه السلام) would be helped, not benefitting by the help of the one who helps him (عليه السلام)’’.

 

(تفسير الق ّمي 2 :389 )

7 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

You are continuously contradicting yourself. My humble suggestion is that you take some time out to reflect upon these points and study them before jumping into debates and stubbornly trying to defend arguments that you aren't even sure of yourself (contradicting yourself in the process and posting false translations of hadeeth and incorrect grammatical statements about the Qur'an. Know that this isn't a light matter and there are serious consequences for distorting such things). 

the Holy Qur'an also says there will be no wali besides Allah (عزّ وجلّ) 

 

(sorry i don't remember the verse word to word)

 

will you leave ayat e wilayat behind? will you just keep this verse in front and derive a belief? or will you keep [5:55] in front too?

 

the Holy Qur'an does says, Rasool-Allah (saws) doesn't know the unseen. but the Holy Qur'an also says that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) reveals it to Him.

 

so basically don't Masoomeen (عليه السلام) "know" the unseen after being revealed to them?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

am giving it a try.

sure.

 

18 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

In any case, if you want to have a serious discussion then you really shouldn't be presenting this video as your evidence...

even you know i cannot type each and every Narration word to word. 

 

13 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

No you didnt quote a narration you just claimed there was one somewhere in Hayat al Quloob. 

oh yeah, thanks for correcting me. it was Hayaat al Quloob. 

ok I'll send it to you when i find it.

Edited by randomly curious
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18 hours ago, Mahdavist said:
Quote

Abu Hashim says, “I asked Imam Ridha’ ((عليه السلام).) about the ghulat and mufawiddah. Imam ((عليه السلام).) stated, ‘The ghulat are infidels and the mufawiddah are polytheists. Anyone who interacts with and accompanies them, has food or drink with them, marries them, trusts them, confirms their speech, or helps them even by saying a single word, will go out of guardianship of Allah, His Messenger (S) and the Ahlul Bayt.’”

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 273.

@Mahdavist let us have a look at the Narrations you posted which actually mentioned"Ghuluw".

 

No denial. i accept this Narration.

18 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, “Be careful that the qulat do not lead your youth astray! The qulat are the worst creatures of Allah, because they belittle Allah’s greatness and consider divinity for His servants.”

By Allah that qulat are worse than the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels. If they come to us, we do not accept to see them, but we will accept a muqassir.” The Imam ((عليه السلام).) was then asked, “O son of Messenger of Allah! What is the reason?” Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) replied, “Because a ghali is used to abandoning prayer, fasting, Zakat, and Hajj and cannot leave his habit. A muqassir, however, will practice his obligatory deeds when he finds out his fault

 

No doubt. i accept this too.

 

only these Narrations mentioned the term "Ghuluw" 

 

None of your rest fabricated Narrations mentioned The word "ghuluw" either.

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9 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

the Holy Qur'an also says there will be no wali besides Allah (عزّ وجلّ) 

 

(sorry i don't remember the verse word to word)

If you want to use a verse to support a belief then bring it forward. Your argument doesn't hold any weight if you misquote verses and fail to provide a reference.

11 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

and if they (عليه السلام) wish to, they can. how? because they have the keys to it.

Refer to 6:59.

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; and He knows what is in the land and the sea, and there falls not a leaf but He knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything green nor dry but (it is all) in a clear book.

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18 hours ago, Mahdavist said:
Quote

Two companions of Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) came to him and said, “Mufazzal Ibn ‘Umar says that you –the Ahlul Bayt– define the servants’ sustenance.” Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, “By Allah that no one defines the servants’ sustenance except Allah. I once could not provide my family’s provisions and got upset. I thought about it until I could provide food for my family, then I became relaxed. May Allah curse Abul Khattab who attributes lies to us.” The two companions said, “Should we curse Abul Khattab and avoid him?” Imam ((عليه السلام).) replied, “Yes.” So his companions did so and said, “Allah and His Messenger (S) hate Abul Khattab too

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p.301.

@Mahdavist now let me prove your Narrations as fabrications one by one.

 

this Narration says no one defines the servents sustenance except Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

 

well, the fabricator didn't read the Holy Qur'an.

 

Isa the son of Maryam said: ‘O Allah, our Lord! Send down upon us food from the sky so it would happen to be a festival for us for our former ones and our latter ones, and a Sign from you, and Grace us, and You are the best of the Providers [5:114]

 


And those who emigrate in the Way of Allah, then are killed or they die, Allah would Sustain them with a goodly sustenance. And surely Allah, He is the Best of the sustainers [22:58]

 


Or are you asking them for a tribute? But, the tribute of your Lord is better, and He is the best of the providers [23:72]

 

Say: ‘Surely my Lord Extends the sustenance for one He so Desires to from His servants, and He Straitens for him. And whatever you spend from anything, He will Replace it, and He is the best of the Sustainers [34:39]

 


And when they see trade, or sport, they break (the Salat) to (go) to it, and they leave you standing. Say: ‘Whatever is in the Presence of Allah is better than the sport and the trade, and Allah is the best of the sustainers [62:11

 

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) says He is the best of the providers.

 

and similary as for Allah (عزّ وجلّ) said He is the best of the creators, i had read a tafseer in which Imam Baaqir (عليه السلام) said,

this is because eesaa (عليه السلام) created a bird. and because the calf of samiryy was created

(Imam mentioned someone I don't remember this word to word)

 

so this also proves there is another sustaier beside Allah (عزّ وجلّ) who is providing sustenance to the creation by taking it from Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; and He knows what is in the land and the sea, and there falls not a leaf but He knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything green nor dry but (it is all) in a clear book.

ok agreed. the verse also says "it is in a clear book" who has the knowledge of a thousand books which includes the Holy Qur'an?

 

well, you've digged a hole for yourself now.

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4 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

None of your rest fabricated Narrations mentioned The word "ghuluw" either.

Why do you insist that they are fabricated when you don't have any evidence? 

If your only answer is that they contradict the Qur'an then I refer you once again to 6:50 and 6:59. 

It would be more honest of you to say you aren't aware of the authenticity rather than to ignorantly label them as fabrications.

It's also of course in contradiction to your previous stance that everything we receive as a hadith is authentic. 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Zararah says, “I told Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).), ‘One of the children of Abdullah Ibn Sanan believes in tafwidh (devolving).’ Imam ((عليه السلام).) asked, ‘What is tafwidh?’ I said, ‘They believe that the Exalted Allah created Muhammad (S) and Ali ((عليه السلام).), then devolved the world issues to them. Now they create, give sustenance, and give death and life.’ Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, ‘He is Allah’s enemy and lies. If you saw him, recite this verse:

أَمْ جَعَلُوا لِلَّهِ شُرَکاءَ خَلَقُوا کَخَلْقِهِ فَتَشابَهَ الْخَلْقُ عَلَيْهِمْ قُلِ اللَّهُ خالِقُ کُلِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ وَ هُوَ الْواحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ

‘Or do they assign to Allah partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."

tafwid is different. angel of the death gives death Masoomeen (عليه السلام) can't? I've proved the concept of sustenance in my previous post. I've proved the concept of creation too.

well, even here the fabricator tried to make people believe by not keeping everything in front.

because if we take this verse solely, then the Verse about prophet eesaa (عليه السلام) creating a bird will contradict the Narration.

 

hence, nothing but a clear fabrication.

Edited by randomly curious
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3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Why do you insist that they are fabricated when you don't have any evidence? 

If your only answer is that they contradict the Qur'an then I refer you once again to 6:50 and 6:59. 

It would be more honest of you to say you aren't aware of the authenticity rather than to ignorantly label them as fabrications.

It's also of course in contradiction to your previous stance that everything we receive as a hadith is authentic. 

chill out. i am proving Everything one by one.

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3 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

ok agreed. the verse also says "it is in a clear book" who has the knowledge of a thousand books which includes the Holy Qur'an?

 

well, you've digged a hole for yourself now.

Do you even read the verses before making up your own interpretations:

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; 

It doesn't get more clear than this. As you said shortly before, if the hadeeth contradicts the Qur'an throw it away.

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19 hours ago, Mahdavist said:
Quote

Abdur Rahman Ibn Kathir says, “Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) told his companions, ‘May Allah curse Mughayrat Ibn Sa’id and the Jew woman, who visited him and learned magic and odd things from him. Mugayrah attributed lies to my father, so the Almighty Allah took his belief from hims. Some other people attributed lies to me. Allah will make them taste the heat of iron.’

By Allah, we are only His servants; He created and selected us. We have no power to bring advantage or disadvantage for ourselves. If the Almighty has Mercy on us, it is from He and if He punishes us, it is because of our own deeds.’

By Allah that we have no argument against Allah! We cannot free ourselves from the Fire. We die like other people and will be placed inside a grave. Then we will be resurrected and reckoned about our deeds in the Hereafter. Woe be to them! May Allah curse them! They upset Him. They upset Messenger of Allah (S), Amiral Mu’minin ((عليه السلام).), Fatimah (s.a.), Hasan ((عليه السلام).), Husayn ((عليه السلام).), Ali Ibn Husayn ((عليه السلام).), and Muhammad Ibn Ali ((عليه السلام).) in their graves. I am the son of Prophet Muhammad (S). You see that I am fearful of Allah’s wrath in my bed, while they sleep comfortably in their beds. I beg Allah and weep from His fear, but they are asleep. I am frightened of Allah’s punishment in mountains and deserts. I take refuge to Allah from this stupid man (Abul Khattab). May Allah curse him!’”

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 289.

tgis has nothing to do with this thread nor it has something to do with ghuwlat.

 

and yes, even this is fabricated. because it mentioned that (Nauzubillah) Masoomeen (عليه السلام) "die"

because in a tafseer Imam (عليه السلام) clearly explained that there is a difference between dying and being martryed 

 

if you want me to post that tafseeer which i am talking about, please do let me know.

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8 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

this Narration says no one defines the servents sustenance except Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

Correct, and absolutely in line with the Qur'an. 

35:3 O men! call to mind the favor of Allah on you; is there any creator besides Allah who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? There is no god but He; whence are you then turned away?

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3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Do you even read the verses before making up your own interpretations:

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; 

It doesn't get more clear than this. As you said shortly before, if the hadeeth contradicts the Qur'an throw it away.

again youre deliberately pretending to ignoring surah jinn.:hahaha:

 

 

Say: ‘I don’t know if it is near, what you are being Threatened (with), or 
whether my Lord has Made a term for it [72:25]

(He is) Knower of the unseen, and He does not Reveal His hidden matters upon anyone [72:26]


Except one He Chooses from a Rasool, for He would Make a guard to travel in front of him and from behind him [72:27]


For Him to Know that they have delivered the Messages of their Lord, and He Encompasses whatever is with them, and He Counts the number of all things[72:28]

 

dear brother, you won't be able to use your twisting skills while discussing with me.

 

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4 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

dear brother, you won't be able to use your twisting skills while discussing with me.

Quoting a verse of the Qur'an is a 'twisting skill?' 

The words are clear, if you still want to reject them then it's your choice. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Correct, and absolutely in line with the Qur'an. 

35:3 O men! call to mind the favor of Allah on you; is there any creator besides Allah who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? There is no god but He; whence are you then turned away?

really?:hahaha: all you're willing for is readers someHow become decieved by you. there are 5 verses i posted which says Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is best of the providers.

 

wait, lt me use your skills upon you.

 

Do you not know that Allah, for Him is the Kingdom of the skies and the earth? And there is none for you from besides Allah, from a Guardian nor a Helper[2:107]

 

 

But rather, your Guardian is Allah, and His Rasool, and those who are believing, those who are establishing the Salat and are giving the Zakat while they are performing Ruku [5:55]

 

let me ask you now. what conclusion will you come out with? 

 

there are no Guardian beside Allah (عزّ وجلّ) for you?

 

or will you keep both the verses in front then decide there are Guardians besides Allah (عزّ وجلّ)

 

or will you (Nauzubillah) say its being contradictory?

Edited by randomly curious
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15 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

I've proved the concept of sustenance in my previous post. I've proved the concept of creation too.

In short you're claiming the narrations are fabricated because the aimmah (عليه السلام) would not say that all sustenance is from Allah and all creation is from Allah?

Incredible. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

but sallafis take this litterally as in angels bigger then the universe carry a chair which Allah(stw) physically sits on, Godforbid

Lol, their outside islam in this case, I’ve heard even more ridiculous stuff 

Edited by THREE1THREE
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Just now, Mahdavist said:

In short you're claiming the narrations are fabricated because the aimmah (عليه السلام) would not say that all sustenance is from Allah and all creation is from Allah?

Incredible. 

 

1 minute ago, randomly curious said:

wait, lt me use your skills upon you.

 

Do you not know that Allah, for Him is the Kingdom of the skies and the earth? And there is none for you from besides Allah, from a Guardian nor a Helper[2:107]

 

 

But rather, your Guardian is Allah, and His Rasool, and those who are believing, those who are establishing the Salat and are giving the Zakat while they are performing Ruku [5:55]

 

let me ask you now. what conclusion will you come out with? 

 

there are no Guardian beside Allah (عزّ وجلّ) for you?

 

or will you keep both the verses in front then decide there are Guardians besides Allah (عزّ وجلّ)

 

?

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