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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

I've never said that you said that, I was talking about how can your earlier statement make 73 = infinity.

The fact that the masomeen(عليه السلام) can have the key to knowlege does not mean that Allah(stw) knowlege is 73, these are 2 unrelated things.

do you agree that the knowledge of the unseen Has no end? you will right? even the momineen will be immortal in paradise.

 

if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can put the knowledge of the unseen in a single letter, what he cannot do? yes, as you said Allah (عزّ وجلّ)'s knowledge is infinite, no doubt. but we either way cannot deny that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) put his knowledge of the unseen in a single letter. because knowledge of the unseen has no limits either.

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Brother, it’s impossible to win an argument with the ghulat. They don’t conform to the same standards of evidence or respect for rationality that you do. Their methodology is simple: if they like the

Started a new thread for this since I am baffled and the other thread is going in different directions. @randomly curious stated that ghuluw is only calling Imams as God. Everything else is game on. W

There is no one matched to him. He is the first and the last. So only he is eternal.

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Surah Al-Zukhruf 43:86

Those whom they invoke besides Him have no power of intercession, EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE WITNESS TO THE TRUTH and who know [for whom to intercede].

 

The verse "Allah only intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending." 

Sunni reference: 

Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663 

 

Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib narrated: When the Messenger of Allah noticed that a blessing from Allah was to descent, he told Safiyya (one of his wives): "Call for me! Call for me!" Safiyya said: "Call who, O the Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Call for me my Ahlul-Bayt who are Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain." Thus we sent for them and they came to him. Then the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) spread his cloak over them, and raised his hand (toward sky) saying: "O Allah! These are my family (Aalee), so bless Muhammad and the family (Aal) of Muhammad." And Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, revealed: "Allah only intends to keep off from you all uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a thorough purification (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)". 

Sunni references:

* al-Mustadrak by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, p148. The author then wrote: "This tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)."

* Talkhis of al-Mustadrak, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p148

* Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v3, p33 

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:salam:

:bismillah:

1 hour ago, 786:) said:

The question is not whether or not Allah can create another Entity like him or not.

42_11.png

He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made you and the cattle in pairs and has multiplied you by His creation. There is certainly nothing like Him. He is All-hearing and All-aware.

Ash-shura Verse 11

The answer is no. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not created. So If he created another "god", than there is a difference. This "god" is created while Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not created.

This is nothing like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and there will never be anything like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

do you agree that the knowledge of the unseen Has no end? you will right? even the momineen will be immortal in paradise.

Something that has no end does not necessarly mean it is infinite, it means that it is going towards infinity, big diffirence there.

It had a begening so not really infinite.

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Posted (edited)

Ok instead of getting stuck in circular discussions I suggest we look directly at what has been said by the aimmah (عليه السلام) themselves as reported in none other than Bihaar al Anwaar which our dear brother regularly likes to refer to.

 

Quote

Two companions of Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) came to him and said, “Mufazzal Ibn ‘Umar says that you –the Ahlul Bayt– define the servants’ sustenance.” Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, “By Allah that no one defines the servants’ sustenance except Allah. I once could not provide my family’s provisions and got upset. I thought about it until I could provide food for my family, then I became relaxed. May Allah curse Abul Khattab who attributes lies to us.” The two companions said, “Should we curse Abul Khattab and avoid him?” Imam ((عليه السلام).) replied, “Yes.” So his companions did so and said, “Allah and His Messenger (S) hate Abul Khattab too

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p.301.

 

Quote

Zararah says, “I told Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).), ‘One of the children of Abdullah Ibn Sanan believes in tafwidh (devolving).’ Imam ((عليه السلام).) asked, ‘What is tafwidh?’ I said, ‘They believe that the Exalted Allah created Muhammad (S) and Ali ((عليه السلام).), then devolved the world issues to them. Now they create, give sustenance, and give death and life.’ Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, ‘He is Allah’s enemy and lies. If you saw him, recite this verse:

أَمْ جَعَلُوا لِلَّهِ شُرَکاءَ خَلَقُوا کَخَلْقِهِ فَتَشابَهَ الْخَلْقُ عَلَيْهِمْ قُلِ اللَّهُ خالِقُ کُلِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ وَ هُوَ الْواحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ

‘Or do they assign to Allah partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."

Zararah says, ‘When I recited the verse for that person it was as if there was stone in his mouth (He could not defend his belief anymore).’

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 343.

 

Quote

Abu Hashim says, “I asked Imam Ridha’ ((عليه السلام).) about the ghulat and mufawiddah. Imam ((عليه السلام).) stated, ‘The ghulat are infidels and the mufawiddah are polytheists. Anyone who interacts with and accompanies them, has food or drink with them, marries them, trusts them, confirms their speech, or helps them even by saying a single word, will go out of guardianship of Allah, His Messenger (S) and the Ahlul Bayt.’”

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 273.

 

Quote

Abdur Rahman Ibn Kathir says, “Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) told his companions, ‘May Allah curse Mughayrat Ibn Sa’id and the Jew woman, who visited him and learned magic and odd things from him. Mugayrah attributed lies to my father, so the Almighty Allah took his belief from hims. Some other people attributed lies to me. Allah will make them taste the heat of iron.’

By Allah, we are only His servants; He created and selected us. We have no power to bring advantage or disadvantage for ourselves. If the Almighty has Mercy on us, it is from He and if He punishes us, it is because of our own deeds.’

By Allah that we have no argument against Allah! We cannot free ourselves from the Fire. We die like other people and will be placed inside a grave. Then we will be resurrected and reckoned about our deeds in the Hereafter. Woe be to them! May Allah curse them! They upset Him. They upset Messenger of Allah (S), Amiral Mu’minin ((عليه السلام).), Fatimah (s.a.), Hasan ((عليه السلام).), Husayn ((عليه السلام).), Ali Ibn Husayn ((عليه السلام).), and Muhammad Ibn Ali ((عليه السلام).) in their graves. I am the son of Prophet Muhammad (S). You see that I am fearful of Allah’s wrath in my bed, while they sleep comfortably in their beds. I beg Allah and weep from His fear, but they are asleep. I am frightened of Allah’s punishment in mountains and deserts. I take refuge to Allah from this stupid man (Abul Khattab). May Allah curse him!’”

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 289.

 

Quote

Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, “Be careful that the qulat do not lead your youth astray! The qulat are the worst creatures of Allah, because they belittle Allah’s greatness and consider divinity for His servants.”

By Allah that qulat are worse than the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels. If they come to us, we do not accept to see them, but we will accept a muqassir.” The Imam ((عليه السلام).) was then asked, “O son of Messenger of Allah! What is the reason?” Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) replied, “Because a ghali is used to abandoning prayer, fasting, Zakat, and Hajj and cannot leave his habit. A muqassir, however, will practice his obligatory deeds when he finds out his fault

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 265

 

Quote

Imam Ridha’ ((عليه السلام).) said in his prayers, “O Lord! I take refuge in You for changing the states and abilities. Wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa bik (And there is no power except from You) O Lord! I take refuge in You and hate the people who lie about us. O Lord! I take refuge in You from the people who say things about us that we do not say.”

O Allah! Creation is done by You and You grant sustenance. I worship You and ask help from You. You are the Creator of us and our fathers; from the first one to the last one. O Allah! Divinity is for You and does not deserve anyone else. I curse the Christians who belittle Your magnitude and the people who attribute greatness to Your other servants. O Lord! We are your creatures and servants, not owners of our advantage and disadvantage, nor our life and death. We avoid anyone who thinks we are his Lord or supposes that the servants’ creation or sustenance is in our hands, just like the avoidance of Jesus from the Christians.”

O Lord! We have not invited them to this belief, so do not scold us for what they say and save us from such invalid qualities. Perish them from the earth; if they remain on the earth they will lead Your servants astray and make them infidels

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 343.

 

Quote

Abu Basir Says, “I told Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).), ‘People say some things about you.’ Imam ((عليه السلام).) asked, ‘What do they say?’ I said, ‘They say that you know the number of rain drops, stars, trees’ leaves, sands, and the weight of seas’ water and deserts’ soil.’ Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) raised his head to the sky and stated, ‘Subhana Allah! Subhana Allah! (Glory be to Allah!) By Allah not! Only Allah knows these things.’”

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 394.

 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reward Sheikh Ibrahim al Amini for summarizing these narrations in his work on Imamah: https://www.al-islam.org/imamate-and-imams-ibrahim-amini

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16 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

even the momineen will be immortal in paradise.

Its because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given them eternal life. If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) didn't keep his promise than he could kill them when ever he feels like it.

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6 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Ok instead of getting stuck in circular discussions I suggest we look directly at what has been said by the aimmah (عليه السلام) themselves as reported in none other than Bihaar al Anwaar which our dear brother regularly likes to refer to.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p.301.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 343.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 273.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 289.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 265

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 343.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 394.

 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reward Sheikh Ibrahim al Amini for summarizing these narrations in his work on Imamah: https://www.al-islam.org/imamate-and-imams-ibrahim-amini

One unrelated thing im uncertain of, the unseen does have a begining? 

 

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8 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Ok instead of getting stuck in circular discussions I suggest we look directly at what has been said by the aimmah (عليه السلام) themselves as reported in none other than Bihaar al Anwaar which our dear brother regularly likes to refer to.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p.301.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 343.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 273.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 289.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 265

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 343.

 

Biharul Anwar, Vol 25, p. 394.

 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reward Sheikh Ibrahim al Amini for summarizing these narrations in his work on Imamah: https://www.al-islam.org/imamate-and-imams-ibrahim-amini

I am not a fan of Bihar due to some of its narrations, but it is refreshing to see these narrations that comply with the Quran. Subhan'Allah. I fear this may simply be written off as taqiyya however.

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1 hour ago, 786:) said:

According to the worthless narration he believes in, Allah only has knowledge upto 73 letters. Whatever that means. 

Salams,

I'm not sure where i read this (bad memory), is that there are three types of knowledge, knowledge that has been given to us, like your ordinary humans, 2nd type is knowledge that is only given to the Prophets and Imams (maybe this is where 73 comes from) and finally the third type is the knowledge only with God (Gods infinte Knowledge). So maybe that 73 is only the 2nd type of knowledge that God has only been give to the Prophets and Imams.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Two companions of Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) came to him and said, “Mufazzal Ibn ‘Umar says that you –the Ahlul Bayt– define the servants’ sustenance.” Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, “By Allah that no one defines the servants’ sustenance except Allah. I once could not provide my family’s provisions and got upset. I thought about it until I could provide food for my family, then I became relaxed. May Allah curse Abul Khattab who attributes lies to us.” The two companions said, “Should we curse Abul Khattab and avoid him?” Imam ((عليه السلام).) replied, “Yes.” So his companions did so and said, “Allah and His Messenger (S) hate Abul Khattab too

no one believes that Masoomeen (عليه السلام) give sustenance or create on thier own. definitely they take it from Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

 

28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Zararah says, “I told Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).), ‘One of the children of Abdullah Ibn Sanan believes in tafwidh (devolving).’ Imam ((عليه السلام).) asked, ‘What is tafwidh?’ I said, ‘They believe that the Exalted Allah created Muhammad (S) and Ali ((عليه السلام).), then devolved the world issues to them. Now they create, give sustenance, and give death and life.’ Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, ‘He is Allah’s enemy and lies. If you saw him, recite this verse:

أَمْ جَعَلُوا لِلَّهِ شُرَکاءَ خَلَقُوا کَخَلْقِهِ فَتَشابَهَ الْخَلْقُ عَلَيْهِمْ قُلِ اللَّهُ خالِقُ کُلِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ وَ هُوَ الْواحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ

‘Or do they assign to Allah partners who have created (anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: "Allah is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."

Zararah says, ‘When I recited the verse for that person it was as if there was stone in his mouth (He could not defend his belief anymore).’

there are many fabricated Narrations similar to this. i will prove you in a separate thread that Masoomeen (عليه السلام) gives sustenance, they give life and, they create by the permission of Allah (عزّ وجلّ). and for now, i will try to fold this concept in short.

 

as for providing sustenance, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly mentions 6 times in the Holy Qur'an, that he is khairur raaziqeen. he clearly mentioned eesaa (عليه السلام) created a bird. eesaa (عليه السلام) can create Masoomeen cant? as for giving death, an angel does that but the Master of that Angel can't?

28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Abu Hashim says, “I asked Imam Ridha’ ((عليه السلام).) about the ghulat and mufawiddah. Imam ((عليه السلام).) stated, ‘The ghulat are infidels and the mufawiddah are polytheists. Anyone who interacts with and accompanies them, has food or drink with them, marries them, trusts them, confirms their speech, or helps them even by saying a single word, will go out of guardianship of Allah, His Messenger (S) and the Ahlul Bayt.’”

May Allah (عزّ وجلّ) curse the ghaalis. but ive provided enough Narrations regarding ghulat. you should check them out.

 

28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Abdur Rahman Ibn Kathir says, “Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) told his companions, ‘May Allah curse Mughayrat Ibn Sa’id and the Jew woman, who visited him and learned magic and odd things from him. Mugayrah attributed lies to my father, so the Almighty Allah took his belief from hims. Some other people attributed lies to me. Allah will make them taste the heat of iron.’

By Allah, we are only His servants; He created and selected us. We have no power to bring advantage or disadvantage for ourselves. If the Almighty has Mercy on us, it is from He and if He punishes us, it is because of our own deeds.’

By Allah that we have no argument against Allah! We cannot free ourselves from the Fire. We die like other people and will be placed inside a grave. Then we will be resurrected and reckoned about our deeds in the Hereafter. Woe be to them! May Allah curse them! They upset Him. They upset Messenger of Allah (S), Amiral Mu’minin ((عليه السلام).), Fatimah (s.a.), Hasan ((عليه السلام).), Husayn ((عليه السلام).), Ali Ibn Husayn ((عليه السلام).), and Muhammad Ibn Ali ((عليه السلام).) in their graves. I am the son of Prophet Muhammad (S). You see that I am fearful of Allah’s wrath in my bed, while they sleep comfortably in their beds. I beg Allah and weep from His fear, but they are asleep. I am frightened of Allah’s punishment in mountains and deserts. I take refuge to Allah from this stupid man (Abul Khattab). May Allah curse him!’”

no doubt, as i already said, Aimmah (عليه السلام). cannot do anything without taking the power from Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

 

28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) stated, “Be careful that the qulat do not lead your youth astray! The qulat are the worst creatures of Allah, because they belittle Allah’s greatness and consider divinity for His servants.”

By Allah that qulat are worse than the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels. If they come to us, we do not accept to see them, but we will accept a muqassir.” The Imam ((عليه السلام).) was then asked, “O son of Messenger of Allah! What is the reason?” Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) replied, “Because a ghali is used to abandoning prayer, fasting, Zakat, and Hajj and cannot leave his habit. A muqassir, however, will practice his obligatory deeds when he finds out his fault

as i said, May Allah (عزّ وجلّ) send la'an upon the ghaalis. and I've provided Narrations regarding ghuwlat too.

 

28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Imam Ridha’ ((عليه السلام).) said in his prayers, “O Lord! I take refuge in You for changing the states and abilities. Wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa bik (And there is no power except from You) O Lord! I take refuge in You and hate the people who lie about us. O Lord! I take refuge in You from the people who say things about us that we do not say.”

O Allah! Creation is done by You and You grant sustenance. I worship You and ask help from You. You are the Creator of us and our fathers; from the first one to the last one. O Allah! Divinity is for You and does not deserve anyone else. I curse the Christians who belittle Your magnitude and the people who attribute greatness to Your other servants. O Lord! We are your creatures and servants, not owners of our advantage and disadvantage, nor our life and death. We avoid anyone who thinks we are his Lord or supposes that the servants’ creation or sustenance is in our hands, just like the avoidance of Jesus from the Christians.”

O Lord! We have not invited them to this belief, so do not scold us for what they say and save us from such invalid qualities. Perish them from the earth; if they remain on the earth they will lead Your servants astray and make them infidels

no doubt. Masoomeen (عليه السلام) create, provide sustenance,give death by the order of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and not by thier own will. 

 

but, they do not will except for what Allah (عزّ وجلّ) wills. surah dahr.

28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Abu Basir Says, “I told Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).), ‘People say some things about you.’ Imam ((عليه السلام).) asked, ‘What do they say?’ I said, ‘They say that you know the number of rain drops, stars, trees’ leaves, sands, and the weight of seas’ water and deserts’ soil.’ Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) raised his head to the sky and stated, ‘Subhana Allah! Subhana Allah! (Glory be to Allah!) By Allah not! Only Allah knows these things.’”

contradictory with other authentic Narrations. throw it on the wall now. and didn't you people yourslef claimed? 90% of bihar al anwaar being spurious? now started picking up random Narrations from it?:D

Edited by randomly curious
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7 minutes ago, ShiaofAli12 said:

Salams,

I'm not sure where i read this (bad memory), is that there are three types of knowledge, knowledge that has been given to us, like your ordinary humans, 2nd type is knowledge that is only given to the Prophets and Imams (maybe this is where 73 comes from) and finally the third type is the knowledge only with God (Gods infinte Knowledge). So maybe that 73 is only the 2nd type of knowledge that God has only been give to the Prophets and Imams.

not really bro. the 2nd type of knowledge is "given" to the prophets and Masoomeen (عليه السلام), but the knowledge of the unseen is in the presence of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) only. but Masoomeen a s has the keys to it.

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38 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

One unrelated thing im uncertain of, the unseen does have a begining? 

Yes. Think of it this way, I have 5 senses, Say I haven't tasted a lemon but I know what it tastes like because I have friends who told me its sour. Does this knowledge have a beginning? Yes. It this unseen/unknown knowledge came to me when my friends told me that the lemon is sour.

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46 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

Something that has no end does not necessarly mean it is infinite, it means that it is going towards infinity, big diffirence there.

one half can be kept in a single letter, other remaining can't be kept in rest 72? come on bro.

although the Narrations state the "Allah (عزّ وجلّ)s knowledge consists upon 73 letters."

we don't know either that whether Allah (عزّ وجلّ) did or didn't put his "entire" knowledge in these 73 letters.

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4 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

there are many fabricated Narrations similar to this

Many narrations = mutawatir hadith. 

As for it being fabricated, we will wait for your proof :)

5 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

contradictory with other authentic Narrations. throw it on the wall now.

If it contradicts the Qur'an it is thrown. 

As for contradicting authentic narrations, I will wait to see your evidence that shows other narrations to be stronger than this one.

7 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

and didn't you people yourslef claimed? 90% of bihar al anwaar being spurious? now picking up random Narrations from it?:D

Since you were quoting from Bihaar I am sure you won't have any issues with these narrations.

Alhamdulillah with these narrations the aimmah (عليه السلام) have clarified what can and can't be attributed to them. They have also clarified the status of those who attribute such things to them. 

Those who want to follow the aimmah will follow them. Those who want to reject their instructions will reject them. At least the guidelines are clear. 

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3 hours ago, 786:) said:

Allah condemns the Christians for making Isa godlike

Christians make jesus godlike because of his miracles and knowledge then once they are refuted they start misinterpreting words and the Jews called Ezra the son of God because of his knowledge. 

 

3 hours ago, 786:) said:

Allah is all hearing. Prophet Muhammad is not. Allah is Omni present. Prophet Muhammad is not. If the Prophet was all hearing or Omni present, would Allah have to point out to the Prophet to watch out for the munafiqeen around him. He would simply hear all their conversations and know himself. Right? 

Question, who carries the Arsh, and moves the clouds? 

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4 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

 

Sslafi answer: Huge angels whos bodies extend the entire samawat carry the arsh.

The angels carry the Arsh and angels move the clouds. Angels have different tasks, one of the angels has been designated by God to carry out the requests of man convey them to the interceder.  

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11 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

If it contradicts the Qur'an it is thrown. 

As for contradicting authentic narrations, I will wait to see your evidence that shows other narrations to be stronger than this one.

Lol, not only the authentic Hadeeth, it contradicts the Holy Qur'an too.

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly says He Has enumerated All things in a clarifying Imam (عليه السلام).


Surely, We Revive the dead, and We Write down whatever they send forward and their impacts, and We have Enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam [36:12]


And Ali Bin Ibrahim said, 

Regarding His Words:

 and We have Enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam [36:12],

 Ibn Abbas mentioned from Amir-al-Momineen (عليه السلام) having said:


 ‘By Allah (عزّ وجلّ), I am the clarifying Imam, clarifying the Truth from the Falsehood, having inherited it from Rasool-Allah (saws)’.


تفسير الق ّمي 2 :212

 

The Sheykh in the Book Misbaah Al-Anwaar by his unbroken chain going up to Mufazzal-Ibn Umar, who said, 

‘I went to Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) one day, He (عليه السلام) said to me:


 ‘O Mufazzal! Do you recognise Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and Ali (عليه السلام), and (Syeda) Fatima (عليه السلام), and Al-Hassan (عليه السلام), and Al-Husayn a s about what they knew?’ I said, ‘O my master, what was it that they (عليه السلام) knew?

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Mufazzal, you should know that they (عليه السلام) are among the flyers from the creatures besides the green Garden. So the one who recognises them (عليه السلام) would be with us (عليه السلام) in the highest level. I said, ‘Let me know that, O my Master (عليه السلام).’


He (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Mufazzal, know that they (عليه السلام) knew what Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and Majestic has Created, and it creation, and they (عليه السلام) are the Pious Words, and the treasurers of the skies and the firmaments, and the mountains, and the sands, and the oceans, and they (عليه السلام) knew the stars in the sky, and Angels, and the weight of the mountains, and depth of the water of the oceans, and rivers, and springs, and not a single leaf fell down except that they had its knowledge, there was no seed in the darkness of the earth, and nothing wet, and nothing dry except that it is in a clear Book, and that was in their (عليه السلام) knowledge, and they knew that.’


I said, ‘O my Master, I know that (now), and I accept it and believe in it.’ He (عليه السلام) said: 


‘Yes, O Mufazzal, yes O honoured one, yes O goodly one, yes O beloved one and there is Paradise for you willingly, and for all who believe in this.’

 

 

مصباح األنوار: 134« مخطوط«، 
تأويل اآليات 2 :488 /4.

P.s

And as soon as an Imam (عليه السلام) is about to pass away (apparently), the next Imam (عليه السلام) after him inherits His knowledge.

 

 


And from Ammar Bin Yaasir, who said, 

‘I was with Amir-Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) in one of the military expeditions. We passed by a valley of ants. I said,


 ‘O Amir-Al-Momineen (عليه السلام), do you know of anyone from the creation of Allahazwj who knows about the number of these ants?’ 


He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Yes, 


O Ammar, I am aware of a man who knows their number, and how many of them are male, and how many of them are female.’ 


I said, ‘Who is that man, O my Master?’ 

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Ammar, Have you not read in Surah Ya Seen: and We have Enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam [36:12]?


 I said, ‘Yes, O my master!’


 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘I  am that clarifying Imam.

الفضائل البن شاذان: 94.

 

 

And from him, from Abu Ali Al-Ashary, from Muhammad Bin Abdul Jabbar, from Ibn Fazal, and Al-Hajaal, altogether, from Sa’albat, from Ziyad who said, 

 

‘Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) said: ‘Rasool-Allah (saws) encamped at barren land, and He said to his companions:


 ‘Come to me with the firewood’. 


They said, ‘O Rasool-Allah (saws), we are at a barren land, there is no firewood here’.


 He (saws) said:


 ‘So every person should bring whatever he can’. So they came with it (small sticks) until they 
threw these in front of him, on top of each other (in a pile).


Rasool-Allah (saws) said:


 ‘This is how the sins pile up’. Then he (saws) said:


 ‘And beware of the belittled Sins (Sins held in light estimation). For everything, there is a seeker. 

Indeed, and if you were to seek these, He (عزّ وجلّ) will Write down whatever you send before and its effects: 


[36:12] and We Write down what they have sent before and its effects, and We have Enumerated everything in a Manifest Imam’.

 

3 /218 :2 

 

 


Al Husayn Bin Muhammad Al Ashary, from Moalla Bin Muhammad, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, 
from Al Haris Bin Ja’far, from Ali Bin Ismail Bin Yaqteen, from Isa Bin Al Mustafad Abu Musa Al Zareyr who said,

 

It was narrated to me by Musa Bin Ja’fara (عليه السلام).


 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘I said to Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام): ‘Wasn’t Amir Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) the writer of the will, and Rasool-Allah (saws) dictated it to him, and Jibraeel and the Angels of Proximity witnesses?’

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘After pausing for a for a long time, he (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Abu Al-Hassan (عليه السلام)! It had transpired what you said, but when the Command descended unto Rasool-Allah (saws), the will (also) descended from the Presence of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) as a written 
record. Jibraeel descended with it along with the Trustees of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Blessed and Exalted, from the Angels'.

 

So I (the narrator) said to Abu Al-Hassan (عليه السلام), ‘By my father and my mother! Will you not mention what was in the will?’


 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Sunnah of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and Sunnah of His Rasool’.

 

So I said, ‘Was their usurpation in the will, and their opposition against Amir Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) ?’ He said: ‘Yes, by Allah (عزّ وجلّ)! Thing by thing, and letter by letter. Have you not heard the Words of Allah Mighty and Majestic: Surely, We Revive the dead, and We Write down whatever they send forward and their impacts, and We have Enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam [36:12]?’’

  23H – تفسير نور الثقلين، ج4 ،ص: 378

 

 

Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Ahmad Bin Abu Zahir, or someone else, from Muhammad Bin Hammad, from his 
father Ahmad Bin Hammad, from Ibrahim, from his father, 

 

‘From Abu Al-Hassan (عليه السلام) the 1st, said,


 ‘I said to hima, ‘May I be sacrificed for you! Inform me about the Prophet. Did he inherit the Prophets, all of them?’ He (عليه السلام)
said:


 ‘Yes’. I said, ‘From Adam (عليه السلام) until it ended to himself?’


 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Allah (عزّ وجلّ) did not Send a Prophet  except that Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was more knowledgeable than him (عليه السلام)'. 

He (the narrator) said, ‘I said, ‘Isa ibn Maryam (عليه السلام) used to revive the dead by the Permission 
of Allah (عزّ وجلّ)’. 

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘You speak the truth’. (I said), ‘And Suleyman Bin Dawood (عليه السلام) used to understand the speech of the bird, and was Rasool-Allah able to be upon this status?’ 


He (the narrator) said,


 ‘Suleyman Bin Dawood said to the Hoopoe (bird) when heas missed it and doubted regarding its matter, so heas said: What is the matter that I cannot see the hoopoe or is it from the absentees? [27:20],


when he (عليه السلام) missed it. So heas was angry upon it, so he said: ‘I will punish it with a severe punishment, or slaughter it, or it brings to me a clear authorisation (for its absence) [27:21]’.


And rather, he (عليه السلام) was angry because it used to navigate for him upon the waters. So, this one, and it was a bird, and it had been Given what Suleyman had not been Given. And it was so that the wind, and the ant, and the humans, and the jinn, and the Satans (l.a) were chained to him (عليه السلام) in obedience, and he did not happen to recognise the water beneath the atmosphere, and the bird used to recognise it.


And Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is Saying in His Book: 


And even if there were a Quran by which the mountains were made to pass away, or the earth were travelled over by it, or the dead were made to speak thereby [13:31],


 and we (عليه السلام) have inherited this Quran wherein is what the mountains can be made to passed with, and the cities be made to travel with, and the dead to be revived with, and we (عليه السلام) know the water beneath the atmosphere.


And in the Book of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) there are Verses what a matter can be intended with except that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has Permitted with it, along with what Allah (عزّ وجلّ) had Permitted from what He (عزّ وجلّ) had Prescribed the past ones with. Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has Made it to be for us in the Mother of the Book (Umm Al-Kitab). Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is Saying:

 

 [27:75] And there is nothing concealed in the sky and the earth but it is in a Clarifying Book.

Then He (عزّ وجلّ)Said:


 Then We Gave the Book as an inheritance to those whom We Chose from among Our servants. 


So we (عليه السلام) are those whom Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and Majestic has Chosen and Made us (عليه السلام) to inherit this (Quran) wherein is an explanation of everything’’.


Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 10

 

 

Ali Bin Khalid, from Ibn Yazeed, from Abbas Al Waraq, from Usman Bin Isa, from Ibn Muskan, from Lays Al Murady, from Sadeyr who said, 

 

‘I was in the presence of Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) when a man from the people of Yemen passed by, so Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) asked him about Yemen. He went on to narrate.


Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) said to him: 


‘Do you recognise such and such house?’ He said, ‘Yes, and I have seen it’.

He (the narrator) said, ‘Abu Ja’farasws said: 


‘Do you recognise a rock by it in such and such place?’ He said, ‘Yes, and I have seen it’. Then the man said, ‘I have not seen any man more 
knowing with a city than you (عليه السلام) are’.


When the man arose, Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) said to me:

 ‘O Abu Al-Fazl! That is the rock when Musa (عليه السلام) was angry and threw the Tablets, and whatever went from the Torah, the rock swallowed. 


When Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Sent His Rasool (saws), fulfilled (brought it out) to him (saws), and it is with us".

 

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 19


From Abu Khalid Al Qamat, 

‘From Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) having said: ‘With us are the Parchments of Ibrahim (عليه السلام), and Musa (عليه السلام), and we inherited from Rasool-Allah (saws)’

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 20

 

 

Ibn Marouf, from Hamad, from Hareyz, from Abu Baseer, 


‘From Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) having said: ‘Ali (عليه السلام) was asked about the knowledge of the Prophet (saws), 

 

so he (عليه السلام) said: ‘Knowledge of the Prophet (saws) is the knowledge of the entirety of the Prophets (عليه السلام), and knowledge of what has happened, and knowledge what will be happening up to the establishment of the Hour’’

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 31

 

 

Ahmad Bin Is’haq, from Abdullah Bin Hamad, from Sayf Al Tammar, 


‘From Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) having said: ‘By the Lord of the Kabah, and by the Lord of the House!’ – three times – 


If I  were in-between Musa (عليه السلام) and Al-Khizr (عليه السلام), I would have informed themas both than I am more knowledgeable than them, and informed them with what wasn’t in their hands, because Musa and Al-Khizr  were both Given the knowledge of what had happened, and were not Given the knowledge of what would be happening.


And Rasool-Allah (saws) was Given knowledge of what had happened and what would be happening up to the Day of Qiyamah, and we (saws) inherited from Rasool-Allah (saws) and (it is in our) inheritance’’

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 32

 

 


Ali Bin Muhammad Bin Saeed, from Hamdan Bin Suleyman, from Ubeydullah Bin Muhammad Al Yamani, from Muslim Bin Al Hajjaj, from Yunus, from Al Husayn Bin Ulwan,


‘Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) having said:


 ‘Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Created the Determines ones (Ul Al-Azm) from the 
Rasools (عليه السلام), and Merited them with the knowledge, and we a.sinherited their knowledge and are Merited over them regarding their knowledge and knowledge of Rasool-Allah (saws)
what they did not know, and we (asws) know the knowledge of Rasool-Allah (saws)’’.


Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 33

 

 

 

Muhammad Bin Isa, from Al Barqy, from Al Nazar, from Yahya Al Halby, from Abu Baseer who said, 

‘I said to Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام), 


‘Did Muhammad (saws) see the kingdoms of the skies and the earth 
just as Ibrahim (عليه السلام) saw?’

 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘As so did your Master’’


Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 39


Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Muhammad Bin Ismail, from Muhammad bin Al Fazeyl, from Abu Al Sabah Al 
Kanany, 

‘From Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام), from his forefathers  having said:


‘Rasool-Allah (saws) came out to us and there was a book in his right hand, and there was a book in his left hand.

He (saws) spread out the book which was in the right hand and read: ‘In the Name of Allah (عزّ وجلّ)
the Beneficent the Merciful. (This is) a book of the people of the Paradise with their names and the names of their fathers. Not one will increase among them nor will anyone be reduced from them’

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Then he (saws) spread out that which was in the left hand and read: ‘(This is) a book from Allah (عزّ وجلّ) the Beneficent the Merciful of the people of the Fire with their names and the names of their fathers and their tribes. Not one will increase in them nor will anyone will be reduced from them’’.

 

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 40

 

 


Abu Al Fazal Al Alawy, from Saeed Bin Isa, from Ibrahim Bin Al Hakam Bin Zaheer, from his father, from 
Shareek Bin Abdullah, from Abdul A’ala, from Abu Waqas, 

 

‘From Salman Al-Muhammadi who said,


 ‘I heard Amir Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) saying regarding the Words of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and Majestic:


Surely, in that are Signs for the distinguishers 
[15:75].

 Rasool-Allah (saws) used to distinguish the people with their markings, and I am a 
distinguisher after him, and the Imams (عليه السلام) from my offspring are the distinguishers up to the Day of Qiyamah’’.

 

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 42

 

 


Ali Bin Ibrahim, from his father, from Al Hassan Bin Sayf, from his father, from the one who mentioned it, 

‘From Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) having said:


 ‘Rasool-Allah (saws) addressed the people, then raised his right hand gripping his palm, then said:


 ‘O you people! What is in my palm?’ 
They said, 


‘Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and His Rasool (saws) are more knowing’. 

So he (saws) said:

 

‘In it are the names of the inhabitants of the Paradise and the names of their fathers and their tribes, up to the Day of Judgment’.

Then he (saws) raised his left hand and he (saws) said: 

 

‘O you people! Do you know what is in my palm?’ They said, ‘Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and His Rasool (saws) are more knowing’. So he (saws)said: 


‘The names of the inhabitants of the Fire, and the names of their fathers and their tribes, up to the Day of Judgment’.

Then he (saws) said:


 ‘Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Judged and was Just! Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Judged and was Just! A party in the Paradise and a party in the Blazing Fire’’.

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophetsaww, Ch 17 H 55

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Posted (edited)

Now let us come to the part of creating and providing sustenance and Handeling the affairs


Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Al Husayn Bin Saeed and Muhammad Bin Khalid, 
from Zakariyya Bin Imran Al Qummy, from Haroun Bin Al Jahm,

 

‘From a man from the companions of Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام), his name was not preserved, who said, ‘I heard Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) saying:


‘Isa Bin Maryam (عليه السلام) was Given two letters. He used to work with these two; and Musa (عليه السلام) was Given four letters, and Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was Given eight letter, and Nuh (عليه السلام) was given fifteen letters, and Adam (عليه السلام) was Given twenty five letters, and 
that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Gathered all of it for Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), and that the Magnificent Name of 
Allah (عزّ وجلّ) are seventy three letters. Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was Given seventy-two letters, and one letter was Veiled from him"

 

 

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 11

 

 

What ever eesaa (عليه السلام) did, was with just those 2 letters from the ism e aazam.


There are many similar Narrations in many books, such as al kafi, basaair al darajaat etc.


When Allah will Say: ‘O Isa son of Maryam! Remember My Favour upon you and upon your mother, when I Strengthened you with the Holy Spirit. You spoke to the people in the cradle and when of old age, and when I Taught you the Book and the Wisdom, and the Torah and the Evangel; and when you created from the clay like the form of the bird with My Permission, and you blew into it, so it became a bird by My Permission; and you cured the blind and the leper by My Permission; and when you extracted the dead by My Permission, and when I Refrained the Children of Israel from you when you came to them with the clear proofs, so those who committed Kufr from them said, ‘Surely this is nothing but clear sorcery!’ [5:110]

 

Eesaa (عليه السلام) can create Having 2 letters from the ism e aazam, Masoomeen (عليه السلام) can't? Despite Having 72 letters? And knowledge of a 1000 books?

 

 

And in Hadeeth e tariq Mawla (عليه السلام) said,


The knowledge of all the Prophets, the (divine) mysteries of the Awsiyaa and the power and glory of the Awliyaa, in comparison to them(Imams), is like a 
drop out of an ocean and a grain out of a desert.
Indeed, the heavens and the earth to the Imam are like the hand and its palm.

 


Whatever Miracle the Prophet, Awsiya or whoever performed was by the knowledge Allah (عزّ وجلّ) gave them.


And eesaa (عليه السلام)'s knowledge is included amongst the one drop from the ocean, Masoomeen (عليه السلام) cannot create while having the entire ocean?

 

Ok, so this was explanation through a Logic.

 


Let us come to Nahj Al balagha in which Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said,

 

 

We're made by our rabb and rest of the Humans are made by us.

 

Imam (عليه السلام) said it in the sense of creation.

 


I will attach an image.

 

Whoever wishes to check the Reference, may visit this link.

 

 

 

 

and i know you people won't accept statements from khutbatul bayan, so let us stop here. i think this much might be enough to explain why is the Narration you posted fabricated.

Screenshot_2020-08-07-22-06-44-32.jpg

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40 minutes ago, THREE1THREE said:

The angels carry the Arsh and angels move the clouds. Angels have different tasks, one of the angels has been designated by God to carry out the requests of man convey them to the interceder.  

no but sallafis take this litterally as in angels bigger then the universe carry a chair which Allah(stw) physically sits on, Godforbid

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Let us come to the part of providing sustenance.


Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly states in the the Holy Qur'an, that He is Kahirur raaziqeen [best of the providers]

 

Isa the son of Maryam said: ‘O Allah, our Lord! Send down upon us food from the sky so it would happen to be a festival for us for our former ones and our latter ones, and a Sign from you, and Grace us, and You are the best of the Providers [5:114]

 


And those who emigrate in the Way of Allah, then are killed or they die, Allah would Sustain them with a goodly sustenance. And surely Allah, He is the Best of the sustainers [22:58]

 


Or are you asking them for a tribute? But, the tribute of your Lord is better, and He is the best of the providers [23:72]

 


Say: ‘Surely my Lord Extends the sustenance for one He so Desires to from His servants, and He Straitens for him. And whatever you spend from anything, He will Replace it, and He is the best of the Sustainers [34:39]

 


And when they see trade, or sport, they break (the Salat) to (go) to it, and they leave you standing. Say: ‘Whatever is in the Presence of Allah is better than the sport and the trade, and Allah is the best of the sustainers [62:11]

 


Similarly Allah (عزّ وجلّ) states that He is Ahsanal Khaliqeen.[best of the creators]

Here we present a Hadith from Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (عليه السلام), when Abu Hanifa objected to him for thanking Rasool-Allah (saws) along with Allah (عزّ وجلّ) after eating food. 


It is written in Kanzul Fawaid by Karajaki that once Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (عليه السلام) was eating food with Abu Hanifa and after finishing, Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (عليه السلام) expressed gratitude like this: 

 

 

“I thank Allah (عزّ وجلّ) who is the Sustainer of all worlds, O Allah (عزّ وجلّ) this was a blessing from You
as well as from Your Prophet (saws)

 

 

Upon hearing this Abu Hanifa said: “O Abu AbdAllah (عليه السلام)! You have include ‘someone else’ along with Allah (عزّ وجلّ).”

 

Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (عليه السلام) replied:

 

 “Be Careful! Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Says in His Book

 

(9:59): “If only they 
had been content with what Allah and His Messenger had gave them, and had said, "Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger
will soon give us out of their Kindness:

 


And at another place Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Says

 


 (9:74): “……And they only stayed in opposition because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace…..;.

 

After listening to these Verses from Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (عليه السلام), Abu Hanifa said: 

 


“By Allah (عزّ وجلّ)! It seems I have never read or heard someone reciting these Verses of the Holy Quran before.” 

 

Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said:

 


“No, it’s not like this! You have not only heard these Verses before but also have read them. However, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Says for you and people like you


(47:24): “Will they then not meditate on the Qur'an, or are there locks on the hearts?” 

 

and Says 

 

(83:14): “Nay, but that which they have earned is rust upon their hearts.

 

 

(this Hadeeth Had an arabic Reference. I wasn't able to post it. i will attach a screenshot at the end)

 


It has been narrated to us by Muhammad Bin Abdul Jabbar, from Al-Hassan Bin Al-Hassan Al-Lu’lui, from Ahmad Bin Al-Hassan Al-Maysami, from Saleh, from Abu Hamza who said:

 

 

"I was in the presence of Ali Bin Al-Husayn (عليه السلام), and there were sparrows on the wall, across from the courtyard.


 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Abu Hamza, do you know what they are saying? They are saying that there is a time for them in which they ask with their strength. 

 

O Abu Hamza, do not sleep before sunrise, for I dislike that for you. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Divides in that time the sustenance of the servants, and on Our hands, it is carried out."

 

[Source: Basaair Al Darajaat, Vol. 7, Chapter. 14, Hadees. 9]


All narrators are trustworthy, except for 'Saleh' whose specifics are not known

 


Narrated Muhammad bin Isa, from Yunus bin Abd al-Rahman, from some companions from Abi Abdillah Imam Sadiq (as):

 

"Nothing comes from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) unless its beginning from the Prophet (saww) then Amir al-Mumineen (عليه السلام) and then one by one and our last one is not more knowledgeable than our first."


[Source: Basaair al-Darajat, Pg. 116]

 

 

Ahmad bin Hawtha al-Bahili narrated from Ibraheem bin Iss~haq an-Nahawandi from Abdullah bin Hammad al-Ansari from Abdullah bin Bukayr from Hamran bin Ayun that Abu Jafar al-Baqir (عليه السلام) had said:

 

 

"As if I see your religion agitating in its blood and then no one will restore it as it has been before except a man from us Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام).


He will give you two gifts a year and two livelihoods/sustenance a month.


You will be granted with wisdom at his time until a woman can judge with the Book of Allah and the Sunna of the Prophet (s) in her house."

 

[Source: Al-Ghayba - An-Numani, Chapter. 13, Hadees. 30]

 

 


Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from al-Qasim ibn Yahya from his grandfather al-Hassan ibn Rashid from ibn Bukayr who has said the following:

 

"Once we were with Abu Abd Allah Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام), and the Imam (عليه السلام) gave us food, after eating we raised our hands and said, "All praise belongs to Allah." Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) then said, "O Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), this is from You and from Muhammad (saww), Your messenger, O Lord, all praise belongs to you, O Allah, send blessings upon Muhammad and his family (عليه السلام)."

 


[Source: al-Kafi, Vol. 6, Pg. 296]

 

 


Imam Moosa Kazim (عليه السلام) said that Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) food was placed in front of Him used to say,

 

 "With the name of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), This is from the favor/grace of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and blessing of the Prophet (saww) and progeny of the Prophet (عليه السلام). O'Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), like you made us full (with food), make every believing man and women full. And bless our food, our drink, our bodies and our wealth."

 

[Source: Mustadrak al-Wasael, Vol. 16, Pg. 278]

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Let us come to the part of Handeling affairs.

 

The regulators of matters [79:5]

 

The Holy Qur'an clearly states that Angel of death gives death. So basically this is also included among Handeling affairs.


And there are many Narrations in basaair al darajat which says, angels are handling affairs such as starting the rainfall, bursting the clouds, etc etc. And i will post a Narration which states that angels are rotating the planets

 

Ibn Babuwayh said, ‘It has been narrated to us by Abu Al-Hassan Muhammad Bin Al-Qasim Al- Jarjany, from Ahmad Ibn Al-Hassan Al-Husayni, who has reported the following:

 

‘Al-Hassan Bin Ali (عليه السلام), from his father, from Muhammad Bin Ali (عليه السلام), 
from his father Al-Reza a s from his father Musa Bin Ja’far (عليه السلام) having said:


‘There was a group of the special ones of Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) seated in his
presence during a moonlit night, so they said,

 

‘O son of Rasool-Allah (saws)! How beautiful is the canopy of this sky, and the rays of these stars and the planets!’

 

So Al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: ‘You all are saying this, and the regulators are four – Jibraeel, and Mikaeel, and Israfeel and the Angel of Death, who are looking towards the earth, and they see you and your brothers in the countries of the earth, and your light emanating from you to the sky is more beautiful to them than these planets, and they are (also) saying just as you all are saying: ‘How beautiful are the rays (emission of light) of these Momineen!’

 

(عيون أخبار ال ّرضا )عليه ال 
ّسالم( 2 :2 /2)

 

 

Clearly angels are Handeling the affairs. But the facts is, angels are doing these things under the commands of Masoomeen (عليه السلام)


Hazrat Miqdad (رضي الله عنه) asked Moula Ali (عليه السلام), 


“Are the matters which are in the heavens also under Your commandment?”

 

Mawla Ali (عليه السلام) replied,

 

“O’Son of Aswad, I am the Hujjat (proof) on every creation of Allah which is in the heavens and upon the earth, and upon the angels which are in the heavens. The angels of the heavens cannot even move without My permission.” 


(Najul Israr 
Second Edition page no. 222)

 

And in khutbatul bayan Mawla (عليه السلام) clearly said that he appoints the angels to do certain works.

 

 

In Hadeeth e tariq Imam (عليه السلام) clearly said that an Imam (عليه السلام) Manages the affairs of the creation and he is solely responsible for thier sustenance.

 

 

And if you people will insist on your fabricated Narrations, then either way you'll have to believe that Masoomeen (عليه السلام) doesn't do these things because they are too elevated to do it.

 

And what's the status of an angel?

 

Perspiration of the visitor of Imam Aba Abdillah Al Hussain (عليه السلام)?


Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) has said:

 

“From every drop of perspiration on the body of Imam Hussain’s (عليه السلام) visitor (in the course of Ziyarat) Allah creates 70,000 angels who glorify and seek forgiveness for Imam's (عليه السلام) visitors till the Day of Judgement.”

 

(Ref: Mustadrak vol 2, pg 204)

 

let me add more Narrations

 

 

The following is part of Ziyarat of Imam Husain (عليه السلام) to be recited as narrated from Imam Sadiq (as):
 
أَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ وَ مَوْلَاكَ وَ فِي طَاعَتِكَ وَ الْوَافِدُ إِلَيْكَ أَلْتَمِسُ كَمَالَ الْمَنْزِلَةِ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَ ثَبَاتَ الْقَدَمِ فِي الْهِجْرَةِ إِلَيْكَ وَ السَّبِيلَ الَّذِي لَا يُخْتَلَجُ دُونَكَ مِنَ الدُّخُولِ فِي كَفَالَتِكَ الَّتِي أُمِرْتَ بِهَا مَنْ أَرَادَ اللَّهَ بَدَأَ بِكُمْ بِكُمْ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ الْكَذِبَ وَ بِكُمْ يُبَاعِدُ اللَّهُ الزَّمَانَ الْكَلِبَ وَ بِكُمْ فَتَحَ اللَّهُ وَ بِكُمْ يَخْتِمُ اللَّهُ وَ بِكُمْ يَمْحُو مَا يَشَاءُ وَ بِكُمْ يُثْبِتُ وَ بِكُمْ يَفُكُّ الذُّلَّ مِنْ رِقَابِنَا وَ بِكُمْ يُدْرِكُ اللَّهُ تِرَةَ كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ يُطْلَبُ بِهَا وَ بِكُمْ تُنْبِتُ الْأَرْضُ أَشْجَارَهَا وَ بِكُمْ تُخْرِجُ الْأَشْجَارُ أَثْمَارَهَا وَ بِكُمْ تُنْزِلُ السَّمَاءُ قَطْرَهَا وَ رِزْقَهَا وَ بِكُمْ يَكْشِفُ اللَّهُ الْكَرْبَ وَ بِكُمْ يُنَزِّلُ اللَّهُ الْغَيْثَ وَ بِكُمْ تَسِيخُ الْأَرْضُ الَّتِي تَحْمِلُ أَبْدَانَكُمْ وَ تَسْتَقِرُّ جِبَالُهَا عَنْ مَرَاسِيهَا إِرَادَةُ الرَّبِّ فِي مَقَادِيرِ أُمُورِهِ تَهْبِطُ إِلَيْكُمْ وَ تَصْدُرُ مِنْ بُيُوتِكُمْ وَ الصَّادِرُ عَمَّا فَصَلَ مِنْ أَحْكَامِ الْعِبَادِ
 

“I am the slave of Allah and your servant who is at your service. I have come to you as a guest to beg for the perfection of my position with Allah and to keep my steps steady in following your way and to beg for the path which does not prevent those who follow it from receiving an assurance from you; an assurance which Allah has ordered you to give. Those who seek Allah, begin with you. Those who seek Allah begin with you. Those who seek Allah begin with you. Allah exposed the lies through you and He keeps the times of affliction away from us through you. Allah started His creation with you and He shall end it with you. And Allah cancels or confirms that which He pleases through you. Allah removes disgrace from us through you and He shall avenge the un-avenged blood of the believers through you. The trees in the earth grow through you and they become fruitful through you. And the skies rain and send down sustenance through you. Allah removes the anguish thorough you and He rains mercy through you. The earth which carries your bodies glorifies Allah through you and it through you that mountains are fixed firmly in the earth. The will of Allah with regard to His destines affairs descends to you and is issues from your houses. In the same way, true and detailed rulings, which govern the people, are issued from your houses.”

 

[Source: Al Kafi, Vol.4 Pg.575 & Kamil Al Ziyarat Pg.198]

 

Narrators are trustworthy. The narration is Authentic (Saheeh).
 
 
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Do you not see that Allah Subjugated for you whatever is in the earth, and the ships flow in the sea by His Command, and He Withholds the sky from falling upon the earth, except by His Permission? Surely Allah, with the people, is Kind, Merciful [22:65]

 

In the book Kamal Al Deen Wa Tamaam Al Ni’ma, by his chain going up to Abu Hama Al Sumaly –‘From Al-Sadiq Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), from his father, from his forefathers, from the Prophet (saws), there is a lengthy Hadeeth in it there are twelve with their names, and at the end of it, he (saws) is saying: 

 

‘And one who denies them or denies any one of them, so he has denied me. 

Through them (عليه السلام), Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Withholds the sky from falling upon the earth, except by His Permission [22:65], and through them (عليه السلام) He (عزّ وجلّ) Preserves the earth from shaking with its inhabitants’’.


210 H – تفسير نور الثقلين، ج3 ،ص: 519


And by his chain going up to Suleyman Bin Mihra Al Amsh –‘From Al-Sadiq Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), from his father Muhammad Bin Ali (عليه السلام), from his father  Ali Bin Al-Husayn (عليه السلام), there is a lengthy Hadeeth, he (عليه السلام) is saying in it:


‘By us (عليه السلام) He (عزّ وجلّ) Withholds the sky from falling upon the earth, except by His Permission [22:65], 

 

and by us us He (عزّ وجلّ) Withholds the earth from shaking with its inhabitants’’.


211 H – تفسير نور الثقلين، ج3 ،ص: 519

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and by the way if you people aren't aware, 

 

the magicians appointed by Fir'awn (l.a) can create snakes out of rope through magic, the calf of samiryy could be created out of magic tought by satan from the powers he recieved by Allah (عزّ وجلّ) in exchange for the worship he did, but Aimmah ((عليه السلام)) cannot create according to you people. sure.

 

Sheikh Toosi Narrates:

 

و أخبرنا الحسين بن إبراهيم عن أبي العباس أحمد بن علي بن نوح عن أبي نصر هبة الله بن محمد الكاتب قال حدثني أبو الحسن أحمد بن محمد بن تربك الرهاوي قال حدثني أبو جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين بن موسى بن بابويه أو قال أبو الحسن علي بن أحمد الدلال القمي قال اختلف جماعة من الشيعة في أن الله عز و جل فوض إلى الأئمة ص أن يخلقوا أو يرزقوا فقال قوم هذا محال لا يجوز على الله تعالى لأن الأجسام لا يقدر على خلقها غير الله عز و جل و قال آخرون بل الله تعالى أقدر الأئمة على ذلك و فوضه إليهم فخلقوا و رزقوا و تنازعوا في ذلك تنازعا شديدا فقال قائل ما بالكم لا ترجعون إلى أبي جعفر محمد بن عثمان العمري فتسألونه عن ذلك فيوضح لكم الحق فيه فإنه الطريق إلى صاحب الأمر عجل الله فرجه فرضيت الجماعة بأبي جعفر و سلمت و أجابت إلى قوله فكتبوا المسألة و أنفذوها إليه فخرج إليهم من جهته توقيع نسخته إن الله تعالى هو الذي خلق الأجسام و قسم الأرزاق لأنه ليس بجسم و لا حال في جسم ليس كمثله شي‏ء و هو السميع العليم و أما الأئمة ع فإنهم يسألون الله تعالى فيخلق و يسألونه فيرزق إيجابا لمسألتهم و إعظاما لحقهم

"There was a difference among a group of Shias on whether Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) authorized the Imam's (عليه السلام) to create and give livelihood. Some said that this is impossible and none other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has authority to create. And others say that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has authorized the Imam's (عليه السلام) over it and has delegated/authorized them and hence they create and give sustenance. And they (the two groups) disputed in this which was a severe dispute."

"Someone said why dont we approach Abi Jafar Muhammad bin Usman Al-Umree and ask him about this issue and make clear for you the right path in it because verily he is the way to the Imam of the Time (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) [Sahib Al Amr]. The group agreed on Abi Jafar and wrote the matter to Imam of the Time (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). And came the following letter from the Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف):"

"Verily Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the one who creates the bodies and distributes livelihood. Because He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not have a body and nothing is inside Him. There is none like him and He is the all hearing and all knowing. And the Imam's (عليه السلام) ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and He creates and the Imam's (عليه السلام) ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and He gives livelihood. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) anwers their questions (in affirmative) and exalts them for their rights."
 
[Source: Al-Gaibah - Toosi, Pg.293-294 & Al-Ehtejaaj Vol.2 Pg.472]
 

Note: Now when we ask the Imam's (عليه السلام) for sustenance, etc we have the very same belief as described above by Imam Az Zaman (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) that we ask Imam (عليه السلام) who intern get it from Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

From a man from the companions of Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام), his name was not preserved, who said, ‘I heard Abu Abdullah (عليه السلام) saying:


‘Isa Bin Maryam (عليه السلام) was Given two letters. He used to work with these two; and Musa (عليه السلام) was Given four letters, and Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was Given eight letter, and Nuh (عليه السلام) was given fifteen letters, and Adam (عليه السلام) was Given twenty five letters, and that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Gathered all of it for Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and that the Magnificent Name of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) are seventy three letters. Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was Given seventy-two letters, and one letter was Veiled from him"

 

 

Bihar Al Anwaar – V 17, The book of our Prophet, Ch 17 H 11

 

 

1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

And in Hadeeth e tariq Mawla (عليه السلام) said,


The knowledge of all the Prophets, the (divine) mysteries of the Awsiyaa and the power and glory of the Awliyaa, in comparison to them(Imams), is like a drop out of an ocean and a grain out of a desert. Indeed, the heavens and the earth to the Imam are like the hand and its palm.

just to provide some extra satisfaction to the readers.

 

 

Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Muhammad Bin Al Hassan, from Abbad Bin Suleyman, from Muhammad Bin Suleyman, from his father, from Sadeyr who said,

 

Sadeyr (the narrator) said, ‘So when he (عليه السلام) arose from his gathering and went to his house, I and Abu Baseer, and Muyassar went over and said to him,

 

‘May we be sacrificed for you! We heard you and you were saying such and such regarding the matter of your maid, and we know that you have a lot of knowledge, and we are not linking you to the knowledge of the unseen’.


He (the narrator) said, ‘So he (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Sadeyr! Do you not read the Quran?’ I said, ‘Yes (I do)’. 


He (عليه السلام) said: ‘So did you find in what you read from the Book of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and 
Majestic: 

The one with whom was the knowledge from the Book said, ‘I will come to you with it before your glance returns to you’ [27:40]?


He (the narrator) said, ‘I said, ‘May I be sacrificed for you (عليه السلام) ! I have read it’. 

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘So do you recognise the man, and do you know what was with him from the knowledge of the 
Book?’ I said, ‘Inform me of it’.

He (عليه السلام) said: ‘A measurement of a drop of water from the green ocean, so that is what happened to be from the knowledge of the Book’. I said, ‘May I be sacrificed for you! 


How little this is!’ So he (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Sadeyr! What a lot this is if you were to link it to Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and Majestic to the Knowledge which I am about to inform you with it.


O Sadeyr! So, did you find in what you read from the Book of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Mighty and Majestic 
as well, Say:


 ‘I suffice with Allah as a Witness between me and you, and one with whom is Knowledge of the Book [13:43]?’ 

 

I said, ‘I have read it, may I be sacrificed for you!’


 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘So, is the one with whom is the knowledge of the Book, all of it, more understanding, or the one with whom is knowledge of the Book, part of it?’

 

 I said, ‘No, but the one with whom is the knowledge of the Book, all of it’.

 

He (the narrator) said, ‘So he (عليه السلام) gestured by his hand towards his chest and said:

 

‘The knowledge of the Book, by Allah (عزّ وجلّ), all of it is with us! The knowledge of the Book, by Allah (عزّ وجلّ), all of it is with us (عليه السلام)!’

 

Al Kafi V 1 – The Book Of Divine Authority CH 45 H 3

 

 

p.s

 

Asif bin barkhiya (the successor of Prophet sulaimaan (عليه السلام)) had been given 1 letter from the ism e aazam. and his knowledge compared to Masoomeen (عليه السلام) is like a drop from the green ocean. 

 

all the Prophets (عليه السلام) had given so many letters from the ism e aazam, still thier knowledge compared to the Masoomeen (عليه السلام) is like a drop from an ocean.

 

 

It has been narrated to us by Muhammad Bin Isa, from Ali Bin Al-Hakam, from Muhammad Bin Al-Fazeyl, from Zareys Al-Wabishy, who has said:


Jabir reports that I said to Abu Ja’farasws, ‘May I be sacrificed for you, the words of the knowledgeable one:

 

‘I will come to you with it before your glance returns to you’.

 

He (the narrator) said,

 

‘He (عليه السلام) said: ‘O Jabir, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) Made His Magnificent Name to be 
upon seventy-three Letters. There used to be with him (Asif Bin Barkhiya) the knowledge of one of these letters. The Earth contracted between him and the throne of Bilquis, until the two met (and heas grabbed the throne), and then it reverted to as it was before, whereas with us, from the Magnificent Name of Allah (عزّ وجلّ), are seventy-two Letters, and one Letter regarding the knowledge of the unseen is hidden with Him (عزّ وجلّ).


Basaair Al Darajaat – P 4 Ch 12 H 6


I Had read in a Narration which states, whenever Asif bin Barkhiya willed, the earth used to fold itself for him. 

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You have seen the narrations of our aimmah (عليه السلام) that I posted but decided that they were fabricated (without evidence)

You then brought forward some other narrations and decided that they were authentic. 

And yet you have no methodology to distinguish the authentic narration from the fabrication.

In any case it is sufficient for us that the aimmah (عليه السلام) have described ghuluw and the status of the ghulat. Those who still insist on following this may do as they wish, the rest of us will follow the guidelines of our aimmah (عليه السلام) inshaAllah. 

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30 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

You have seen the narrations of our aimmah (عليه السلام) that I posted but decided that they were fabricated (without evidence)

You then brought forward some other narrations and decided that they were authentic. 

And yet you have no methodology to distinguish the authentic narration from the fabrication.

In any case it is sufficient for us that the aimmah (عليه السلام) have described ghuluw and the status of the ghulat. Those who still insist on following this may do as they wish, the rest of us will follow the guidelines of our aimmah (عليه السلام) inshaAllah. 

you might be kidding me:hahaha: 

 

your Narration about Masoomeen (عليه السلام) not knowing the starts and leafs and rest of the stuff is being contradictory with the Holy Qur'an.

 

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an that everything is kept in this book.

 

and as i quoted the verse from the Holy Qur'an to prove your Narration completely contradictory was this,

 

Surely, We Revive the dead, and We Write down whatever they send forward and their impacts, and We have Enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam[36:12]

 

Allah (عزّ وجلّ) clearly said that he has enumerated all things in a clarifying Imam (Masoomeen (عليه السلام)

 

and even yesterday i posted so many Narrations from al kafi which state that How can Allah (عزّ وجلّ) necessitate the obedience to the servent from whom the heavens and the earth is Veiled.

 

as for creating, I've proved the concept very precisely.

 

as for providing sustenance, let us forget the Narrations Here. because you'll somehow try to tackle them. let us revert to the Holy Qur'an. I've posted 5 verses which state Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is best of the providers.

 

means Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is himself addressing that there is someone providing sustenance other than him. who is that someone? can that someone be other than the best and the greatest creation? i.e Masoomeen (عليه السلام)? and will Allah (عزّ وجلّ) choose someone other than them? if yes, then again, you'll have to believe that Masoomeen (عليه السلام) are too elevated to do that act. because someone inferior is working besides them.

 

and i will apply the same concept on Handeling affairs too.

 

as i posted a clear cut verse from surah Nazi'at which says regarding Handeling of affairs. and i posted a Narration too which state the angels are rotating the planets and stars. and in many Narrations it is stated that angels start the rainfall, angel bursts the clouds etc etc.

 

and who are angels? perspiration of the visitor of Aba Abdillah Al Hussain (عليه السلام)? 

 

come one bro! you need to accept these things with a open heart instead of relying on fabricated stuff.

 

and there's no option left for you to accuse my Narrations as fabrication. because I've posted everything keeping the verses of the Holy Qur'an along.

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28 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

You have seen the narrations of our aimmah (عليه السلام) that I posted but decided that they were fabricated (without evidence)

You then brought forward some other narrations and decided that they were authentic. 

And yet you have no methodology to distinguish the authentic narration from the fabrication.

In any case it is sufficient for us that the aimmah (عليه السلام) have described ghuluw and the status of the ghulat. Those who still insist on following this may do as they wish, the rest of us will follow the guidelines of our aimmah (عليه السلام) inshaAllah. 

Brother, it’s impossible to win an argument with the ghulat. They don’t conform to the same standards of evidence or respect for rationality that you do. Their methodology is simple: if they like the sound of it, accept it, and if they don’t, reject it.

In starting to think that when the Imams advised us not to sit with the ghulat, it was for the sake of our own sanity more than anything else.

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15 hours ago, randomly curious said:

one half can be kept in a single letter, other remaining can't be kept in rest 72? come on bro.

although the Narrations state the "Allah (عزّ وجلّ)s knowledge consists upon 73 letters."

we don't know either that whether Allah (عزّ وجلّ) did or didn't put his "entire" knowledge in these 73 letters.

For me the 73 letters thing is not correct

16 hours ago, randomly curious said:

but we either way cannot deny that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) put his knowledge of the unseen in a single letter. because knowledge of the unseen has no limits either.

We see that in Dua Kumayl it says,

"O who knows but was never taught."

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has always had this knowledge even though the unseen has no limits either.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

For me the 73 letters thing is not correct

are you trying to say Allah (عزّ وجلّ) can create another Allah but cannot put his knowledge in 73 letters?

despite that he is Al-Qadir?

 

26 minutes ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

We see that in Dua Kumayl it says,

"O who knows but was never taught."

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has always had this knowledge even though the unseen has no limits either

brother I've already said many times that Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is All-knowing because He knows  every knowledge by his own. Masoomeen (عليه السلام) aren't All-knowing because they've been taught by Allah (عزّ وجلّ)

Edited by randomly curious
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Brother, it’s impossible to win an argument with the ghulat. They don’t conform to the same standards of evidence or respect for rationality that you do. Their methodology is simple: if they like the sound of it, accept it, and if they don’t, reject it.

In starting to think that when the Imams advised us not to sit with the ghulat, it was for the sake of our own sanity more than anything else.

rather why don't you sincerely admit that you've ran out? because this time ive proved the compatibility of the Narrations keeping the Holy verses from the Holy Qur'an along. so there's no way left for you to label them spurious this time.

 

all you both will do now is keep agreeing with each other and start fishing for reactions. ain't i right? No issues. I'll give one to you too and contribute my share. 

Edited by randomly curious
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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Brother, it’s impossible to win an argument with the ghulat. They don’t conform to the same standards of evidence or respect for rationality that you do. Their methodology is simple: if they like the sound of it, accept it, and if they don’t, reject it.

In starting to think that when the Imams advised us not to sit with the ghulat, it was for the sake of our own sanity more than anything else.

Good to see I wasn’t the only one losing my mind with the ideas presented by him.

also he mentioned Asif Raza Alvi. If you guys are familiar with subcontinent zakireen, this zakir is borderline Nusayri but has weasled his way into mainstream communities unfortunately by tapping onto the emotional appeal of the awaam.

Edited by 786:)
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