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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lebanon Port Explosion

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Lebanon in the 50s and 60s was already at the peakpoint of corruption. 

I was in that exact location in Beirut a year ago it’s extremely beautiful. Now I think how sad it is that lebanon never catches a break. My parents generation never did, nor does this generation

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

The jinun of it messes with my meshugenah.

America ShiaChat has gotten this way because the people have lost their fear of Gov’t conspiracies.”

It’s a little odd that someone who is so critical of government is even more critical of “conspiracy theorists.”

But to each his own. I do find it odd that neither Iran nor Hezbollah has publicly disclosed Israel’s mini-nuke.

There is a lot of evidence that Israel used a mini-nuke in its attack on the port of Beirut (yes, it was an attack).

Someone should be asking why the “Resistance” is so silent about this. Why the PMUs have not acted on their own to kick the U.S. out of Iraq, but have continued to wait for the traitorous, reformist-infested Iranian government to give the order. Why the facts on the ground don’t seem to match “Resistance” claims that the defeat of the U.S. is just around the corner. Why Hezbollah is (so far) accepting the official cover story that ammonium nitrate was the culprit, all the evidence of a nuclear attack notwithstanding. Why Assad keeps working with Russia, even though Russia (like China) is too scared of the Zionists to oppose them. Why Russia’s and Iran’s vaunted air defences seem to be vulnerable to Israeli hacking. And so on.

Edited by Northwest
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1 hour ago, iCenozoic said:

 

Why dont you export some of your american democracy to the poor people of Lebanon just like the US did to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libiya, Vietnam, etc? Worked out real well.

I dont think Lebanon would benefit from having a self obsessed clown of a president (trump) and the alternative of a senile phedofile (biden) as a leader of state, so thank you but no thank you.

And if you dont like assassinations and covert bombings, then you sure must hate your country.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Why dont you export some of your american democracy to the poor people of Lebanon just like the US did to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libiya, Vietnam, etc? Worked out real well.

 

Good response. Way to divert the topic away from Hezbollahs weaponized strong arming and assassinations.

It's common for people to point at Israel, saying look, Israel did X, Y and Z.

While it is true that other countries have committed crimes, that doesn't automatically make Hezbollah a justified part of government.

An armed group for resistance purposes? Sure. But this odd situation of them trying to double as a legitimate political party? Im not convinced.

If a political party in the US, such as libertarians, orchestrated the assassination of a major political leader, I would be pretty disappointed. They're kind of like the mob. Some people like the mob because the mob can protect and serve, often even better than local governments. Sometimes the mob is even more trustworthy than corrupt government officials. And sometimes it gets to the extent that people become dependent on "strong men".

But with all of the above said, it's not ideal having a heavily armed militant group basically overpowering the govt. (Probably a safe way to put it).

 

Edited by iCenozoic
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3 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

Good response. Way to divert the topic away from Hezbollahs weaponized strong arming and assassinations.

I dont feel like catering the rumors you are making, not a single thing of what you said has been proven and nor does any of that which you said have anything at all to do with the incident at the port.

You make assumptions upon assumptions, creating your own imaginary understanding of the situation in Lebanon, addressing that is completely meaningless. I dont think you know the first thing about Lebanon, its people nor its history.

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2 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

Many people in Lebanon probably rely on Hezbollah,

You might want to ask yourself why that is.

Certainly during their period of occupation if the French had left a more egalitarian society, there would have been no need for Hezbollah. But the colonial model of ruling was typically to find a minority (in this case the Maronites) and have them lord it over the others.

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21 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

You might want to ask yourself why that is.

Certainly during their period of occupation if the French had left a more egalitarian society, there would have been no need for Hezbollah. But the colonial model of ruling was typically to find a minority (in this case the Maronites) and have them lord it over the others.

Yea, well this is all the more reason to oust all of these sectarian political groups and to start over. It's basically just a failed government design. And really moreso it's just a failed way of life.

 

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5 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

oust all of these sectarian political groups and to start over.

That may be a problem if only one of those sectarian groups seems to be capable of Resistance.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

That may be a problem if only one of those sectarian groups seems to be capable of Resistance.

Resistance against whom? Themselves?

The people do not need to release resistance against external pressure in order to undergo internal reform.

If only one group is heavily armed, I would agree that it may be difficult.

Edited by iCenozoic
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4 hours ago, Northwest said:

neither Iran nor Hezbollah has publicly disclosed Israel’s mini-nuke.

l had to go to the hardware store. There was this nut on the radio (Glen Beck it turned out to be) saying that this was a Hezbollah depot and that other depots have recently been found elsewhere. The only one he claimed l remember was a Hezbollah storage facility in England.

:hahaha:

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Posted (edited)

Nasrallah

The news is reporting that LBCl -Lebanese news- is no longer covering any politician.

For a quick summary of what Nasrallah said, se

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/protests-lebanon-arrests-16-beirut-blast-live-updates-200807062157963.html

 

 

Edited by hasanhh
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

l had to go to the hardware store. There was this nut on the radio (Glen Beck it turned out to be) saying that this was a Hezbollah depot and that other depots have recently been found elsewhere. The only one he claimed l remember was a Hezbollah storage facility in England.

:hahaha:

I'll be honest, it does sound a bit odd to me that those actually were stockpiles of fireworks going off.  But that's what the reporters are saying.

I think having Donald Trump as president has made me a bit cynical with respect to words of politicians though. Not sure who to trust in this one.

"Major General Abbas Ibrahim, head of Lebanon’s general directorate of general security, dismissed speculation that fireworks stored in the port caused the explosion. He said it would be “naive to describe such an explosion as due to fireworks.”

https://thearabweekly.com/causes-beirut-blast-under-scrutiny-hezbollah-spotlight

I feel like this whole series of events just wreaks of negligence and corruption. 

 

Edited by iCenozoic
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

You might want to ask yourself why that is.

Certainly during their period of occupation if the French had left a more egalitarian society, there would have been no need for Hezbollah. But the colonial model of ruling was typically to find a minority (in this case the Maronites) and have them lord it over the others.

Pretty sure the Lebanon of the 50s and 60s was a much better society than post-Civil war Lebanon and the sectarian divide that came with it. Just like Iraq. Go have a read on the state of the Lebanese economy before the nation was hijacked by sectarian warlords and the PLO. It was a pearl in the Middle East.

As always, the revolutionaries and ideologues end up destroying everything.

Edited by Sumerian
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16 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Certainly during their period of occupation if the French had left a more egalitarian society, there would have been no need for Hezbollah. But the colonial model of ruling was typically to find a minority (in this case the Maronites) and have them lord it over the others.

 

Here's a bit more substance:

 

Quote

 

The formation of Greater Lebanon after 1920 could not be considered—whether by its detractors or partisans—anything more than a French colonial construct undertaken with the active complicity of Maronite elites and on their own behalf.

...

When Muslim political forces began contesting the system during the 1960s, it was with the aim of rebalancing powers and prerogatives between Muslims and Christians. By the 1970s this had evolved. On the eve of the war, Muslims were demanding fundamental change and the introduction of a one-person, one-vote democratic system.

 

 

Beyond Sunni and Shia: The Roots of Sectarianism in a Changing Middle East Frederic Wehrey, Oxford University Press 2018

 

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Posted (edited)

IMPORTANT:
CCTV footage moments before explosion in Lebanon. The witnesses appear to be pointing at some sort of rocket/ propeller. The video posted yesterday at midnight has now been tampered with. The end of the video shows the blast and those witnesses gone, which now the video doesn’t show. The president of Lebanon came out late last night that the blast was a likely to be a result of a rocket.

Quote

"There is a possibility of external interference through a rocket or bomb or other act."

^ Sourcehttps://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/beirut-explosion-lebanons-president-says-blast-may-have-been-caused-by-a-rocket-or-a-bomb-12044405

 

watch 1:36-2:14

 

Edited by Mariam17
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Mariam17 said:

IMPORTANT:
CCTV footage moments before explosion in Lebanon. The witnesses appear to be pointing at some sort of rocket/ propeller. The video posted yesterday at midnight has now been tampered with. The end of the video shows the blast and those witnesses gone, which now the video doesn’t show. The president of Lebanon came out late last night that the blast was a likely to be a result of a rocket.

^ Sourcehttps://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/beirut-explosion-lebanons-president-says-blast-may-have-been-caused-by-a-rocket-or-a-bomb-12044405

 

watch 1:36-2:14

 

He doesn't rule out a rocket or bomb. That doesn't mean there is any evidence that it was a rocket or bomb. I watched the video. It shows some people looking at the sky and making hand gestures. How does that count as evidence of a rocket or bomb ? They could have been looking at anything. Also, there was a fire at the port just before the explosion. This could have been people beginning to notice the flames from that fire. Also, if it was a missile, they move extremely fast.There wouldn't be enough time for that first and second person, a few seconds later, to look at the same point in the sky and see something. The missile would have moved from that location by then.  

Edited by Abu Hadi
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7 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

He doesn't rule out a rocket or bomb. That doesn't mean there is any evidence that it was a rocket or bomb. I watched the video. It shows some people looking at the sky and making hand gestures. How does that count as evidence of a rocket or bomb ? They could have been looking at anything. Also, there was a fire at the port just before the explosion. This could have been people beginning to notice the flames from that fire. Also, if it was a missile, they move extremely fast.There wouldn't be enough time for that first and second person, a few seconds later, to look at the same point in the sky and see something. The missile would have moved from that location by then.  

Salam brother. I never said it’s 100% confirmed nor did I say the word missile. 
I do believe it’s important to take what you’ve said in mind and I understand your concern over “fake news”. 
 

However, even though it’s not 100% confirmed and thus I shall not say it was a rocket 100%, things that I have seen and heard lead more to that argument. The man making a circular movement with his hand can also an indication that he is looking at something not just smoke. I feel that if it was the huge amount of smoke they saw purely their reaction would have been more shocked. Either way that’s my opinion and insha’Allah we shall wait on more evidence.
 

Thank you for your input and concern.

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13 minutes ago, Mariam17 said:

Salam brother. I never said it’s 100% confirmed nor did I say the word missile. 
I do believe it’s important to take what you’ve said in mind and I understand your concern over “fake news”. 
 

However, even though it’s not 100% confirmed and thus I shall not say it was a rocket 100%, things that I have seen and heard lead more to that argument. The man making a circular movement with his hand can also an indication that he is looking at something not just smoke. I feel that if it was the huge amount of smoke they saw purely their reaction would have been more shocked. Either way that’s my opinion and insha’Allah we shall wait on more evidence.
 

Thank you for your input and concern.

I understand you are not saying 100% that it was a bomb, but I think we should be careful what we post, because, as you know, there are many in Lebanon and elsewhere who are looking for an excuse to point blame in various directions and create confusion in order to distract from the obvious. The obvious is that it seems, so far, this was a catastrophic act of incompetence by the so called 'government' of Lebanon that led to the deaths of more than 100 citizens, injuries of many thousands of citizens, and displacement of more than 100,000 citizens. I saw the man on the video who was making a circular motion with his fingers. But since there is no audio, we really don't know if he was looking at a drone, a small remote controlled helicopter (i.e. a kids toy), swirling smoke from the fires, etc. It is really not very easy to tell what he is looking at from the video, since we can't see the sky in the shot nor hear any audio of what he is saying. 

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5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I understand you are not saying 100% that it was a bomb, but I think we should be careful what we post, because, as you know, there are many in Lebanon and elsewhere who are looking for an excuse to point blame in various directions and create confusion in order to distract from the obvious. The obvious is that it seems, so far, this was a catastrophic act of incompetence by the so called 'government' of Lebanon that led to the deaths of more than 100 citizens, injuries of many thousands of citizens, and displacement of more than 100,000 citizens. I saw the man on the video who was making a circular motion with his fingers. But since there is no audio, we really don't know if he was looking at a drone, a small remote controlled helicopter (i.e. a kids toy), swirling smoke from the fires, etc. It is really not very easy to tell what he is looking at from the video, since we can't see the sky in the shot nor hear any audio of what he is saying. 

When I saw an entire mountain on fire in lebanon(forest fires) , my initial reaction is shock and mesmorisation, I don't point at the smoke because everyone sees it, it's an obvious thing, not a small unidentified object where I have to point my finger to divert the attention of the other person to it.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/5/2020 at 2:02 PM, Guest Sunshine said:

This what I also hate about west... Our government literally killed almost 1000 thousand of people here in Iraq and we struggled to get any attention from the world.

What a nonsense. And I wonder why it can be stated here without proof, since there is no evidence that 'your' government did this. It could have been literally everyone. No evidence, no talk, simple as that.

Shiites should be positioning themselves in the ME and Asia now, because their powers and achievements will be challenged and every gain from 2000 till today will be taken away by imperialists and their Sunni allies, if the don't position themselves NOW.

Edited by lover
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20 minutes ago, realizm said:

Lebanon in the 50s and 60s was already at the peakpoint of corruption.

Yes. As I quoted above from various books recently published about the history/politics of Lebanon, the problems can be linked back to that period. But if you watch e.g. the Pathe newsreels of the period, they do paint a very rosy picture.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

As I quoted above from various books recently published about the history/politics of Lebanon

Which book brother? I would love to know.

Edited by Diaz
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4 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Which book brother? I would love to know.

Abisaab, Rula Jurdi, and Malek Abisaab. The Shi'ites of Lebanon : Modernism, Communism, and Hizbullah's Islamists, Syracuse University Press, 2014. 

Beyond Sunni and Shia: The Roots of Sectarianism in a Changing Middle East Frederic Wehrey, Oxford University Press 2018

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4 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Abisaab, Rula Jurdi, and Malek Abisaab. The Shi'ites of Lebanon : Modernism, Communism, and Hizbullah's Islamists, Syracuse University Press, 2014. 

Beyond Sunni and Shia: The Roots of Sectarianism in a Changing Middle East Frederic Wehrey, Oxford University Press 2018

Thank you brother, did you read it for free or did you buy it? 

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49 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Thank you brother, did you read it for free or did you buy it? 

I have access to databases that hold them. I have not quoted from the following, but I have access and it sounds interesting.

Israel and Hizbollah : An Asymmetric Conflict in Historical and Comparative Perspective, edited by Clive Jones, and Sergio Catignani, Taylor & Francis Group, 2009. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

When I saw an entire mountain on fire in lebanon(forest fires) , my initial reaction is shock and mesmorisation, I don't point at the smoke because everyone sees it, it's an obvious thing, not a small unidentified object where I have to point my finger to divert the attention of the other person to it.

We could go back and forth forever with this point. The main fact is that the video is not conclusive proof. They could literally be pointing at almost anything. I would love to discuss an interesting angle on this tragedy, if there is evidence for it, but I don't see any evidence beyond the obvious facts. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, realizm said:

Lebanon in the 50s and 60s was already at the peakpoint of corruption. 

No one said it wasn't a corrupt or unfair system. Everything wrong with it could have been fixed by reforms and economic advance, and the economic potential of the country was obvious to everyone. It was a jannah compared to what became of Lebanon after that.

Like I said, the PLO and the revolutionaries came and everything was destroyed with their guns.

Edited by Sumerian
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