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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lebanon Port Explosion

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2 minutes ago, lover said:

A similar system is implemented in Iraq, with Kurds, Sunni, Shia division. With the exception that there is a (hidden) Wilayat al-Faqih, who always calls the prime ministers to step down:

-Maliki had to resign

-Abadi had to resign

-Abdul-Mahdi had to resign

I hope the war in Syria gets finished soon. All problems lie there now as Lebanon currently has no borders to bring in help.

The governments of Iraq and Lebanon are, in theory, secular systems. The systems do not derive their authority from a religion and are not based on religious law. So in those systems, it is not just to include or exclude a person or group from office based on religion or community affiliation, because that is the system the people have chosen in that country. I am not going to get into whether this is the correct system, that is another point, but that is the current system the people have chosen. 

Within that system, government officials should be chosen based on their merits (education ,experience, ability, moral character, etc). At the same time, at one point in history, it was difficult for the people to accept this system (called a 'meritocracy') due to the tribal nature of society. So this system of quotas based on community affiliation was 'pasted' onto the secular system to appease certain parts of the society that would not accept a pure meritocracy. I think that we live in an era, currently, where, if the people are still willing to accept a secular system of government, then they should accept it as a pure meritocracy, which also has flaws, but, IMHO, it is less flawed than a secular system based on artificial community 'quotas' which isn't working at all in Lebanon, as we can all see. 

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May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) have mercy on the souls of the departed. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant a full recovery to those who were injured. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gr

Lebanon in the 50s and 60s was already at the peakpoint of corruption. 

I was in that exact location in Beirut a year ago it’s extremely beautiful. Now I think how sad it is that lebanon never catches a break. My parents generation never did, nor does this generation

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

Anyone has any idea how much this will cost to repair?

I think Billions of dollars, the port is completely destroyed.

edit:- including buildings, cafe, restaurant etc that is near the port.

Edited by Diaz
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4 hours ago, starlight said:

Any statement from Sayed Hasan Nasrullah?

Postponed, he was going to say something today. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kaya said:

half of Beirut would be destroyed and we'd be hearing of radiation damage.

 

Quote

 

The death toll has reached 100 people, with around 4,000 people wounded.

The entire city of Beirut is reporting injuries and damage. Hospitals are barely functioning, following months of Covid-19 lockdown, mass lay-offs, hyperinflation and power blackouts. The city's population is around 2.5 million people, so it may take many days before the final death toll is established...
 

beirut explosion blast radius

 

Quote

BEIRUT-Footage-1.jpg

The huge mushroom typical of an atomic explosion. FOOTAGE

Beirut: Christian Party secretary killed in apparent Israeli mini-nuke attack

Quote

Within hours of VT breaking the news that Israel had nuked Beirut, the ‘fact checkers’ were out in force trying to contradict us, but the best they could do was a pretty pathetic effort comprised of nothing of substance, just regurgitations of the official cover story and quotes from blatantly fraudulent ‘analysis’ of a few bits of video.

On of the first attempts was by someone called Dana Ford working for a site called leadstories.com:

 

Screenshot_2020-08-05-Fact-Check-Blast-i

Screenshot_2020-08-05-Fact-Check-Blast-i

Note how the diameter of the plasma ball corresponds to the diameter of the crater it left behind, absolutely no disguising the fact this was a nuke.

Beirut-nuke-crater.jpg

“Fact-Checkers” Controlling the Narrative

Edited by Northwest
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Posted (edited)

GCC and France are helping Lebanon. The president of France is going to visit Beirut tomorrow.

Edited by Diaz
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7 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The governments of Iraq and Lebanon are, in theory, secular systems. The systems do not derive their authority from a religion and are not based on religious law. So in those systems, it is not just to include or exclude a person or group from office based on religion or community affiliation, because that is the system the people have chosen in that country. I am not going to get into whether this is the correct system, that is another point, but that is the current system the people have chosen. 

Within that system, government officials should be chosen based on their merits (education ,experience, ability, moral character, etc). At the same time, at one point in history, it was difficult for the people to accept this system (called a 'meritocracy') due to the tribal nature of society. So this system of quotas based on community affiliation was 'pasted' onto the secular system to appease certain parts of the society that would not accept a pure meritocracy. I think that we live in an era, currently, where, if the people are still willing to accept a secular system of government, then they should accept it as a pure meritocracy, which also has flaws, but, IMHO, it is less flawed than a secular system based on artificial community 'quotas' which isn't working at all in Lebanon, as we can all see. 

I came in conclusion that the system itself is not the main problem. The problem are the political parties itself because Iraqis like  a cult following.. You get the same incompetence and corrupt people in power and these parties make  only bad decision and they use their religious law  for their own interest. None of these people have ever accepted drafts that are good for the country. Iraq does not even have domestic abuse law in the system because the parties has been rejecting all the drafts. Same with electricity, economy and corruption reforms. This why our judicial and other system are corrupt and dysfunctional.  Now they are also rejecting early election which was protesters main wish. What Lebanon and Iraq needs is a new faces and their main interest should be their nation. We will stuck with the incompetence forever if people dont change.  The quata system could work if we had  strong rule of law and much better requirements for the system to function. We should also make sectarianism as crime. 

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3 hours ago, Zxqn said:

Not to be a conspiracy theorist but part of me really fails to see how this is an accident. Its been there for SIX years, and now, when the country is in a state of economic instability and the port is being used to get resources from the outside, NOW it explodes?

If it is an accident, then like you said, it just reflects the incompetency of the government; they are too concerned with their own desires they neglect to put food on the tables of their people and knowledge in their brains.But the people have protested, they've called for change and nothing happens. Part of me is antagonistic towards the West's attitudes to Lebanon. It takes a full blown explosion for the country to get attention. 

Notre Dame had $1 billion raised for its repair in TWO days, I bet everything Lebanon will not see half of that in a month.Shame people place more value on a building than on human life. Nevertheless, like they always do, they will muster up the courage to build again as the cycle continues. 

This what I also hate about west... Our government literally killed almost 1000 thousand of people here in Iraq and we struggled to get any attention from the world.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Diaz said:

GCC and France are helping Lebanon. The president of France is going to visit Beirut tomorrow.

Germany, Iran, Russia, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Cyprus and Jordan are helping too.

 

I’m sorry for asking but if anyone can donate please do here https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/lebanon-relief?utm_term=re7R78DA2/

Edited by Diaz
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Little is known about the Russian owner of the Rhosus, the cargo ship impounded in Beirut in 2014, whose captain had referred to its freight of 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate fertiliser as a “floating bomb.”

That ammonium nitrate is believed to have fueled the devastating explosion that has left more than 100 dead in Beirut.

Former crewmembers said the ship was owned by Igor Grechushkin, a Russian national currently believed to be living in Cyprus, where he holds either citizenship or residency. Grechushkin, a native of the Far Eastern city of Khabarovsk, is reported to have managed Teto Shipping, which owned the Rhosus.

The ship arrived in Beirut in 2013 while sailing from Georgia to Mozambique. It was prevented from leaving the Beirut port in 2014 over an unspecified dispute, either because the ship was deemed not seaworthy or because the owner had failed to pay the necessary fees to the port.

It was then that Grechushkin is said to have walked away from the ship, refusing to answer calls or negotiate with the port authorities for the release of his sailors.

In complaints to the press in 2014, former crewmembers said they had been “abandoned” in Beirut and had not been paid their wages for nearly a year. “The owner [of the ship] has virtually abandoned the ship and its crew,” wrote the ship’s former captain. “Salaries are not paid, supplies are not purchased. The shipowner has refused the cargo.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/aug/04/beirut-explosion-huge-blast-port-lebanon-capital

 

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2 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

The black thing is a  bird . Here is example stop at 0:28  video ..you can clearly see bird is flying there. Its not Drone.

 

 

That is not the video where are talking about. Check this https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertDeNiroUS/status/1290826920200998912

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300,000 Homeless in a 6.9 Million Population

11C2912D-C6E3-4082-9E3D-4CAAB9695806.jpeg

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2 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

Little is known about the Russian owner of the Rhosus, the cargo ship impounded in Beirut in 2014, whose captain had referred to its freight of 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate fertiliser as a “floating bomb.”

While Ammonium Nitrate can be used in a bomb, it is not an unstable chemical. It is a very good fertilizer and has a very long history, from what I know it is the best and cheapest nitrogen supplement for crops for lands with alkalinity (our lands) while the alternatives increase the alkalinity and reduce yields as well as slowly poison the lands. It was banned in our country under the guise of The War Against Terrorism. 

In order to detonate ammonium nitrate in a dirty bomb, usually an almost matching amount of petrol has to be mixed with it in order to make it ready to explode.

Being a geologist and a man of science you should have known that? You keep calling it a "chemical" yourself until you quoted that source which identifies it as a fertilizer.

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1 minute ago, The Green Knight said:

While Ammonium Nitrate can be used in a bomb, it is not an unstable chemical. It is a very good fertilizer and has a very long history, from what I know it is the best and cheapest nitrogen supplement for crops for lands with alkalinity (our lands) while the alternatives increase the alkalinity and reduce yields as well as slowly poison the lands. It was banned in our country under the guise of The War Against Terrorism. 

In order to detonate ammonium nitrate in a dirty bomb, usually an almost matching amount of petrol has to be mixed with it in order to make it ready to explode.

Being a geologist and a man of science you should have known that? You keep calling it a "chemical" yourself until you quoted that source which identifies it as a fertilizer.

I mean, I can only go based on what information is available on this chemical.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate

It appears to be explosive and an oxidizer.

And check this out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

"Large stockpiles of the material can be a major fire risk due to their supporting oxidation, and may also detonate, as happened in the Texas City disaster of 1947 which led to major changes in the regulations for storage and handling."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster

 

300px-Txcitydisasterboat.jpg
The SS Wilson B. Keene, destroyed in the disaster's second explosion

The 1947 Texas City disaster was an industrial accident that occurred on April 16, 1947, in the Port of Texas City, Texas, at Galveston Bay. It was the deadliest industrial accident in U.S. history, and one of history's largest non-nuclear explosions. A mid-morning fire started on board the French-registered vessel SS Grandcamp (docked in the port), and detonated her cargo of about 2,300 tons (about 2,086 metric tons) of ammonium nitrate.[1] This started a chain reaction of fires and explosions in other ships and nearby oil-storage facilities, ultimately killing at least 581 people, including all but one member of the Texas City fire department.[2]

The disaster drew the first class action lawsuit against the United States government, on behalf of 8,485 victims, under the 1946 Federal Tort Claims Act.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosion

 

So, what I'm observing is that, this could be a classic case of a stockpile of this same chemical, blowing up as a reaction to a pre existing fire.

Now, maybe there was a bomb involved, but it certainly seems possible that it was an accident. Especially given the statement in guardian suggesting that the fire originated some 3 ports away and spread, making it's way to this illegal stockpile.

And again, I'm not saying it certainly wasn't an attack, but it seems plausible to believe it was a an accident, much like the above examples. 

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3 hours ago, Diaz said:

Germany, Iran, Russia, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Cyprus and Jordan are helping too.

 

I’m sorry for asking but if anyone can donate please do here https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/lebanon-relief?utm_term=re7R78DA2/

Thanks for sharing the link, we should definitely donate and help. But likewise it is as important to note that US sanctions have crippled the economy and directly hurt the Lebanese people. The humanitarian disaster in Lebanon existed before this event and has only been increased now. If the US CONTINUES THE SANCTIONS THEN THEY ARE ACCOMPLICES IN THE DEATHS.

But considering they've continued the sanctions to Iran despite the covid humanitarian situation there, they will probably do the same to Lebanon.

 

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Posted (edited)

And check out the timeline of major disasters on this page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

This suggests the feasibility of an accident.

Both the US and Germany have both experienced similar incidents involving the death of over 500 people, each.

Mix in some negligence of a ship being seized and improper storage at a port where people aren't paying proper attention to it and your owner of the chemical abandons the load, and you have a recipe for disaster. A literal ticking timebomb waiting for its spark (be that spark intentional or unintentional, both appearing feasible).

And one last thought too. What were those fireworks? Were those munitions? What was that sporadic popping in the smoke before the explosion? Maybe that was the trigger along with extreme heat, that caused the stockpile to react. Some are saying there was a fireworks storage area? Some are saying that there were some kind of bullets or shells that were burning and popping from the fire.

Who needs a drone strike if you already have munitions or fireworks blowing up next door?

Edited by iCenozoic
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9 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

1. The U.S admitted it was a bomb 

No. The US is not Donnie Trump! Donnie Trump has been an act of sabotage against the United States since before he took office.

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2 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

300,000 Homeless

The news l heard ranged this from 250,000 to 300,000 mostly due to broken glass.

lt was reported on my local Noon news that because the hospitals were packed with C-19 patients the hospitals had to move into the streets.

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Posted (edited)

News reports say that the grain silos at Beirut had 15,000 tons of grain out of a capacity of 120,000 tons. This loss has precipitated a food crisis in Lebanon. Four ships have been diverted to Tripoli.

https://www.feedandgrain.com/news/beirut-blast-wiped-out-85-of-grain-silos  <--that's 85% of silio capacity in the country.

 

Also, the port officials have been placed under house arresthttps://www.cbc.ca/news/world/beirut-blast-day-after-1.5674666 

Edited by hasanhh
spelin'
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Posted (edited)

:salam:

Remember this. 

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/nasrallah-threatened-to-blow-up-israel-with-same-chemicals-as-beirut-blast-637582

Now I guess anything will be put in place to :

1/ avoid stocking of explosive stuff including Hezb weapons - national safety

2/ avoid similar attacks and a new "shoah" On Israeli land - zionist comedy

 

Just guessing because rotten former PM Fouad Saniora just called for an international court trial. Again, Lebanon officials needing their elder brother USA to deal with their problems. 

Edited by realizm
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5 minutes ago, realizm said:

Remember this. 

l do not believe anything in the report. For one thing, it is not feasible.

A fifty pound sack of ammonium nitrate is bulky. In the US, nitrate has been replaced by urea.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l do not believe anything in the report. For one thing, it is not feasible.

A fifty pound sack of ammonium nitrate is bulky. In the US, nitrate has been replaced by urea.

What report are you refering to, brother ? 

I was just pointing out that blasting Israeli ammoniun stores was suggested by Sayed Hassan Nasrallah as a deterrent for Israeli attacks. Sweet revenge that would be. 

Edited by realizm
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If a lot of people are suspecting foul play by Israel then they can not be blamed because Israel repeatedly does insane evil and the west supports it. In fact, they were caught sending aerial drones into Lebanon just a few days ago.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/202007261079987358-israeli-military-drone-crashes-in-lebanon/

Quote

According to a report by the Israeli Channel 12 broadcaster, the drone crashed due to a technical failure and was not shot down. 

And now this?

Sure maybe there was a lot of fertilizer in the warehouse of a sea port (uhm yep they should not allow fertilizer on a port) but Israel being given the license to terrorize and mass kill by its supporters is an infinitely bigger lunacy and far more concerning since a very long time.

We will have to see what really happened after all the reports are in.

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

We will have to see what really happened after all the reports are in.

Western Use of Mini-Nukes in False-Flag Operations

Russia Opens Files on Western Mini-Nukes

Earlier Post Detailing Evidence

Quote

Eep5kezX0AEo_t9.jpeg

Note how the diameter of the plasma ball corresponds to the diameter of the crater it left behind, absolutely no disguising the fact this was a nuke.

Source

Edited by Northwest
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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, realizm said:

What report are you refering to, brother ? 

I was just pointing out that blasting Israeli ammoniun stores was suggested by Sayed Hassan Nasrallah as a deterrent for Israeli attacks. Sweet revenge that would be. 

I think it's interesting that the ship of these chemicals was "seized" and that the captain I guess abandoned the load?

This product, given the tonnage (5.5 million pounds of it), was likely worth some money. It was probably worth a lot of money.  That's (70) 80,000 pound tractor trailer full of it. It's an incredible amount of product.

I find it interesting that it would essentially be abandoned by whomever owned it.

Imagine running a business, and you load up 5.5 million pounds of your product, stuff you worked for. Stuff you paid for to acquire. A product worth money. And for some reason, you decided to just leave it?

And the ship too? And the cost of transport, all just...left behind?

It just seems odd. Like maybe there are details still hidden about all of this.

What was the true purpose of this massive shipment of explosive chemicals? Was it really destined to be used as fertilizer in Africa? And why exactly was it seized?

Here we go, Google says "Ammonium nitrate contains 35% N and costs $550 per ton.".

and we have what 2750 tons?  That's over 1.5 million, not including the value of the ship, the value of staff salaries for transport and supplies. This transport was a multi-million dollar operation. And the product was just left behind.

https://scienceofagriculture.org/nitrogen/fertilizer/fertilizer-comparison-02.html

who would abandon such money?

Edited by iCenozoic
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48 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

who would abandon such money?

Someone whose expenses/fines were more than the value of the product?

The article you provided above said the crew salaries were unpaid and the ship was not seaworthy or port fees were unpaid. 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, notme said:

Someone whose expenses/fines were more than the value of the product?

The article you provided above said the crew salaries were unpaid and the ship was not seaworthy or port fees were unpaid. 

Well yea, that would be a general response. But usually when a company is taking on debt, abandonment of millions of dollars of product isn't necessarily the solution. That's quite the opposite of what businesses do. Usually companies liquidate assets or use the little bit of product they have to lessen their debt. As opposed to abandoning their product, thereby increasing their debt even more. 

If the value of the ship and product aren't enough to cover the expenses of the crew, why would the ship ever be loaded to begin with?

We could just say that this business was just very poorly managed. But, in the private sector businesses I've worked in, such an act, I think would be unheard of. Granted, I don't work in shipping, but business is business and money is money.

Even if your crew leaves that ship, that's millions of dollars of valuable product, that has been abandoned. It's not like it was an empty ship.

Like imagine driving a car with a million dollars in it. You're going to go get that million dollars, with or without that crew. Even if the car is mechanically damaged, the product in the car is worth getting, even if you need to hire some temporary sailors. Or even if the ship needs some new parts.

Now of course, I don't truly know why all this happened, but from a business perspective, it just seems strange that a business would abandon it's money, it's product.

 

Edited by iCenozoic
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1 hour ago, iCenozoic said:

I think it's interesting that the ship of these chemicals was "seized" and that the captain I guess abandoned the load?

This product, given the tonnage (5.5 million pounds of it), was likely worth some money. It was probably worth a lot of money.  That's (70) 80,000 pound tractor trailer full of it. It's an incredible amount of product.

I find it interesting that it would essentially be abandoned by whomever owned it.

Imagine running a business, and you load up 5.5 million pounds of your product, stuff you worked for. Stuff you paid for to acquire. A product worth money. And for some reason, you decided to just leave it?

And the ship too? And the cost of transport, all just...left behind?

It just seems odd. Like maybe there are details still hidden about all of this.

What was the true purpose of this massive shipment of explosive chemicals? Was it really destined to be used as fertilizer in Africa? And why exactly was it seized?

Here we go, Google says "Ammonium nitrate contains 35% N and costs $550 per ton.".

and we have what 2750 tons?  That's over 1.5 million, not including the value of the ship, the value of staff salaries for transport and supplies. This transport was a multi-million dollar operation. And the product was just left behind.

https://scienceofagriculture.org/nitrogen/fertilizer/fertilizer-comparison-02.html

who would abandon such money?

Not to mention the rent of that warehouse. 6*12 months of rent. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, realizm said:

Not to mention the rent of that warehouse. 6*12 months of rent. 

Yea.

Everyone should just imagine being a manufacturer of say...lumber. and let's say you invest in filling a ship with millions of dollars of lumber. 

Lumber is your lifeline. It's how you pay people, it's how you run your business. That is your money.

To abandon that product, the burden would have to be pretty extreme. The fines or penalties received would have to be pretty substantial. Or costs for renting space. 

And there should be a paper trail behind all this. A real story that explains why the ship was seized, and what burden this business took on, that was greater than the value of the product. It ought to be easy to uncover for investigators. I'd be curious.

Tractor trailers break down on the road all the time, but drivers don't just ditch their load. And businesses don't just walk away. This is 70 trailer loads of money, left behind.

So what happened? Was their seizure related to the specific type of load being carried?

If the government didn't want these dangerous chemicals, they presumably wouldn't break a company with penalties. 

Who knows. Maybe there is a simple explanation. But I think it just seems odd.

Edited by iCenozoic
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Posted (edited)

Here's an article published in 2014 on the ship:

https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-news/2014/4194/crew-kept-hostages-floating-bomb-mv-rhosus-beirut/

"Crew kept hostages on a floating bomb – m/v Rhosus, Beirut"

Edited by iCenozoic
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Here we go:

The owner of Rhosus went bankrupt[c] and, after the charterers lost interest in the cargo, the owner abandoned the ship.[4] Rhosus then quickly ran out of provisions, while the crew were unable to disembark due to immigration restrictions.[5] Creditors also obtained three arrest warrants against the ship.[d][4][5] Lawyers argued for the crew's repatriation on compassionate grounds, due to the danger posed by the cargo still aboard the ship, and an Urgent Matters judge in Beirut allowed them to return home after having been stuck aboard the ship for about a year.[4][5] The dangerous cargo was then brought ashore in 2014 and placed in a building, Hangar 12, at the port, pursuant to a court order, for the next six years.[5][7][9][10][11]

Various customs officials had sent letters to judges requesting a resolution to the issue of the confiscated cargo, proposing that the ammonium nitrate either be exported, given to the Army, or sold to the private Lebanese Explosives Company.[9] Letters had been sent on 27 June 2014, 5 December 2014, 6 May 2015, 20 May 2016, 13 October 2016, and 27 October 2017.[9] One of the letters sent in 2016 noted that judges had not replied to previous requests, and "pleaded" for a resolution due to the "serious danger of keeping these goods in the hangar in unsuitable climatic conditions".[e][9] The fears of Port Officials would be proven justified, as the cargo of the ship would help ignite an explosion in the Port of Beirut, killing over 135 people, and injuring over 5,000.[13][14

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Rhosus

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