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In the Name of God بسم الله

Arrest of father for refusing to leave dying daughter

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Mariam17 said:

The matter of the fact is that the NHS are facing cuts in the growing capitalist London economy which favours those from a wealthy background

l just now heard on DeutscheWelle that people in Bolivia are dying in their cars because the hospitals have no room for them.

Yesterday the tv news said (l didn't try to verify) that Latin America now has 1/2 million known cases.

 

ADDED: DW later reported that people are going from hospital to hospital Iooking for treatment -but some hospitals have already "broke" down. Bodies are being collected at homes, in cars, on public transportation and 85% of the 75 bodies per day picked-up on the streets are tesing positive for C-19.

Edited by hasanhh
spelin'
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17 hours ago, starlight said:

but they should be aware of the laws

Those were not police but security guards endangering a dying child in an lCU.

Of course, the relative safety of both the child and the other lCU patients is not a factor because those twisted-cross Nazis didn't care about the lCU (sacrifices have to be made) and probably hope to sooner eliminate another non-chr!stian.

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16 hours ago, Mariam17 said:

You know sister when you put it like that my perspective has now changed. Your right, emotions are being too much involved allowing us to make assumptions.

  16 hours ago, starlight said:

This is why the staff and security guards needed to handle this differently.

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15 hours ago, starlight said:

No,' land and dunya belongs to Allah'. and museum is on this earth so I should be allowed to go when and where I please, right?

There's a difference between land and property on land. I don't see the point replying to foolish arguments since they will never stop.

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2 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Yes and? 

Is there even a rational point being made here? 

l understand Star's point. Hospitals have all kinds of problems from people, but in this case -as established in the opening portion of the video- there was no reason for the grieving parents to be asked to leave. No procedure was about to be performed as the nurse said.

Then there is the outrageous conduct by the security guards.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, starlight said:

Other than refugess, why do people normally move to the west?? 

If you read my entire reply you would know what I was saying, I meant they being greedy ending up killing your son or daughter.

would you accept your son or daughter to be killed because the nhs were greedy to keep them alive?

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Islam has not said pick the laws you like and disobey the ones you dont. You can't even pray in someone's home without their permission. 

If the laws are incompatible with islam you shouldn't be in that country or that hospital. 

If they are, then don't disobey them. 

The convenient 'best of both worlds' approach that seeks free services and benefits in non muslim countries while picking and choosing which laws suit you doesn't work. 

It's a tough situation and a harsh one, but as doctors they knew what they were getting into and in general as muslimeeen in non muslim countries we know what the implications are.

My freind, the "law of the land" , if it's true here is nonsense it's insainity to have your own daugther and son killed because the hospital was too greedy to keep them alive, that's just wrong period, human life is more important than money, this has nothing to do with "I dont like this law and I like this law" this is more like " my daughter is going to die if you do this, have mercy" and the hospital is like "screw your daughter, we need money" this by all means is insanity, my daughter and sons life are more important then the "law of the land".

 

Also, no laws were broken from what I heard!

So the point being made here is invalid.

The police and the hospital were actually in the wrong here, why do you think the fathers lawsuit is being filed ?

 

When I say greed I mean their dumb incompetence, this should by all means never be accepted, these people are trained to save peoples lives not kill them because of their greed.

 

This is mainly the reason why people are extreemly angry at this too, it is because the nhs has been known to do this sort of disgusting behaviour, there is no excusing it.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Yes and? 

Is there even a rational point being made here? 

If we stand against the oppression of the our imams during muharram and cry and beat our chest, isn't that synonymous of what she claimed I was doing, adding "emotional twist"

We can stand for what is right for one person but not for the other?

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1 hour ago, AkhiraisReal said:

There's a difference between land and property on land. I don't see the point replying to foolish arguments since they will never stop.

 

 

Lolz. Nothing new. Resorting to insults when you realize you don't have an argument.

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

security guards endangering a dying child in an lCU.

How?

49 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

there was no reason for the grieving parents to be asked to leave

I don't know exactly why they were asked to leave, usually visitors aren't allowed inside ICU for more than a few minutes.

Hasan, tell me, what was expected to happen when the parents were asked to leave multiple time and they didn't. Mother argued back, father sat there and they say didn't much. 

Medical staff: you have to leave.

Parents : we are not going to (repeat x4)

Then what?

Medical staff: Okay, whatever you wish??????

This was going to escalate.

I know it was a difficult situation but there were other ways. Maybe the father should have left and requested the Doctors to let the mother have a few more minutes with her child or both of them should have left and requested a senior doctor to let them go back. Maybe it's me but I don't see how this could have ended any other way. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, starlight said:

Nothing new. Resorting to insults when you realize you don't have an argument.

No, I don't insult people. If you look back at your reply you would most likely understand my response.

If you still took offense, my apologies.

Edited by AkhiraisReal
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17 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

If you read my entire reply you would know what I was saying, I meant they being greedy ending up killing your son or daughter, would ypu accept your son or daughter being killed because they were greedy to keep them alive?

You didn't answer my question. None of the Doctors ended up making any money out of this so I don't know who are you referring to as being greedy here.

NHS was good enough for them to leave their country and work for 30 odd years and where they took part of the same protocols and procedures and now NHS is evil? 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

Lolz. Nothing new. Resorting to insults when you realize you don't have an argument.

How?

I don't know exactly why they were asked to leave, usually visitors aren't allowed inside ICU for more than a few minutes.

Hasan, tell me, what was expected to happen when the parents were asked to leave multiple time and they didn't. Mother argued back, father sat there and they say didn't much. 

Medical staff: you have to leave.

Parents : we are not going to (repeat x4)

Then what?

Medical staff: Okay, whatever you wish??????

This was going to escalate.

I know it was a difficult situation but there were other ways. Maybe the father should have left and requested the Doctors to let the mother have a few more minutes with her child or both of them should have left and requested a senior doctor to let them go back. Maybe it's me but I don't see how this could have ended any other way. 

The doctors were telling the parents to leave because they wanted to take the ventolator off(kill her).

Why did they do this? 

They are greedy, it costs money to keep someone on the icu.

The nhs has been known to do this because of how greedy they are.

Obviously the father was not going to accept the death of his daughter because the nhs was greedy, so he did not leave and that is normal any parent would instinctly save their child.

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

You didn't answer my question. None of the Doctors ended up making any money out of this so I don't know who are you referring to as being greedy here.

I am sure you already know the answer to this.

The hospital cuts on costs through the doctors. The profit comes from the saved costs.

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Just now, HusseinAbbas said:

The doctors were telling the parents to leave because they wanted to take the ventolator off(kill her).

0.50 "we are not going to do that (extubate) right now, we are not going to do it without informing you"

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, starlight said:

You didn't answer my question.

People come there to find jobs, that still doesn't excuse horrible behaviour.

Quote

None of the Doctors ended up making any money out of this so I don't know who are you referring to as being greedy here.

I was talking about the nhs. AkhiraisReal explained it to you.

Quote

NHS was good enough for them to leave their country and work for 30 odd years and where they took part of the same protocols and procedures and now NHS is evil? 

Just because the nhs gives people jobs does not excuse their killing of people because they cost them money.

 

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, starlight said:

0.50 "we are not going to do that (extubate) right now, we are not going to do it without informing you"

When they inform him wether he likes it or not it will happen.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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1 minute ago, HusseinAbbas said:

People come there to find jobs, that still doesn't excuse horrible behaviour.

So that's not greedy behavior???

Being a part of a evil,murderous,greedy organisation like NHS for three decades where you pull out the plug from other people is fine but when it's you then suddenly it's bad. Cummon! They were doctors. More than anyone else they knew what was coming. Their daughter had a genetic condition with no cure and life expectancy of around 10yrs. 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, starlight said:

So that's not greedy behavior???

Being a part of a evil,murderous,greedy organisation like NHS for three decades where you pull out the plug from other people is fine but when it's you then suddenly it's bad. Cummon! They were doctors. More than anyone else they knew what was coming. Their daughter had a genetic condition with no cure and life expectancy of around 10yrs. 

As I said, a wrong is a wrong, I dont work for nasty organisations like this because they are horrible, your argument does not address the point its only a whataboutism where you say "and they are not greedy?" I never said these people were angels, I just said this greedy behaviour is not to be excused.

Also a lot of times doctors say that someone will die but that person ends up living, if the parents want the child to live it is their choice, not the doctors or nhs choice, their choice thats their daughter.

Oh and they kill her at 4 when her life expentancy is 10, so thats 6 years she could have lived and experienced that the nhs sucked out of her, who are you to judge if someones daugther should be alive or not?

 

Edit:Also as a side note, average english people experience this too not just immigrants.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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14 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

and they are not greedy?"

Is that only thing you saw in my post??? I said this because you started the greedy argument.

14 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

not the doctors or nhs choice,

NHS was their choice. They are part of NHS. They have willingly been part of the system contributing to it. So why cry now???

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Quote

The police had previously been called on a separate occasion after the hospital staff said Dr Abbasi had been aggressive.

Quote

During the prolonged scuffle, several of the officers accuse the 58-year-old of biting them, and he can also be heard calling them “animals” and “[Edited Out]s”. One of the female officers in return accuses him of acting “like an animal” during the melee.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rashid-abbasi-bodycam-footage-police-zainab-hospital-nhs-a9651326.html%3famp

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1 hour ago, AkhiraisReal said:

If we stand against the oppression of the our imams during muharram and cry and beat our chest, isn't that synonymous of what she claimed I was doing, adding "emotional twist"

We can stand for what is right for one person but not for the other?

No I think what she was saying, and I agree with her, is that beyond the emotional outrage there is a rational understanding of what has taken place.

It has already been discussed to death so I don't want to waste anybody's time further. We will have to agree to disagree.

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@HusseinAbbas the 'nasty' organization you speak of provides free healthcare to millions (including muslims). 

I don't know where you're getting the idea that their action was driven by greed. Usually the dilemma public hospitals have is that they have more patients than capacity and sadly they need to prioritize the patients who they think they can save over the one's that are beyond treatment. 

Of course the parents of the girl (may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) have mercy on her soul) had a different opinion, which they are entitled to, and in Islam this dilemma is not necessarily dealt with in the same way as in non muslim countries (although it is a debated topic), but to suggest that this is 'greed' driven sounds baseless to me. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best. 

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2 hours ago, starlight said:

I don't know exactly why they were asked to leave, usually visitors aren't allowed inside ICU for more than a few minutes.

Hasan, tell me, what was expected to happen when the parents were asked to leave multiple time and they didn't. Mother argued back, father sat there and they say didn't much. 

Medical staff: you have to leave.

Parents : we are not going to (repeat x4)

Then what?

Medical staff: Okay, whatever you wish??????

This was going to escalate.

I know it was a difficult situation but there were other ways. Maybe the father should have left and requested the Doctors to let the mother have a few more minutes with her child or both of them should have left and requested a senior doctor to let them go back. Maybe it's me but I don't see how this could have ended any other way. 

 

2 hours ago, starlight said:

I don't know exactly why they were asked to leave, usually visitors aren't allowed . . .

ln the few times l have been in an lCU as a visitor, only once was l told l had a few minutes before l went in. The last time l remember being in lCU to visit was in 2010 and we were there for about three hours.

The security guards started a scuffle next to the child and the child's lCU equipment. That is "how" they endangered the child.

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