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In the Name of God بسم الله

Arrest of father for refusing to leave dying daughter

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6 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Islam requires us to respect and follow the laws of the land that we live in. 

The law of the land also says that 16, 18 ,21 year olds can drink alcohol.

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Correct but it doesn't require you to consume alcohol. If it did then it would be incompatible with islam and you would have to leave the country. 

Isn't what happened in the above case incompatible with islam?

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2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Islam required the man to remain by his daughter, and leaving her as the authorities required him to would be haram?

No.

Brother I have no idea what you are talking about.

Even from a non islamic perspective what happened above is clearly very wrong.

What you are suggesting is slave mentality.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Brother I have no idea what you are talking about.

Even from a non islamic perspective what happened above is clearly very wrong.

What you are suggesting is slave mentality.

If the personnel of the hospital have certain rules and regulations then we must respect them. This is standard etiquette. Nothing slave like about it. 

Edited by Mahdavist
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Quote

They're Muslim doctors.  They're suing hospital.

What does Sharia say about protecting a life?  Does British law override Sharia?

Walaikum as salam

As a muslim you are required to abide by the laws of the place you live in as well as the laws of Islam. If the two are not compatible you must move out of the country. 

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Posted (edited)

To be honest there is nothing lawful happening in regards to the hospital and the police. The matter of the fact is that the NHS are facing cuts in the growing capitalist London economy which favours those from a wealthy background and are able to afford private healthcare. It costs them to keep that child on life support.  Hence, they mercilessly don’t care if she dies as she is just a statistic. As for the police as seen within the history of such systemised intuitions is that there is embedded racism which is clearly seen when a woman police officer states that the father is “behaving like an animal”. You may object to this but this is racism however subtle you may see it as the reality is people of colour are viewed as lesser and as Edward Said best puts; “barbaric and uncivilised”. Not only that, they use excessive force and deny the father his medicine for his medical conditions despite him saying he is literally “going to have a heart attack”. Just a quick note: he had a heart attack the next day and was hospitalised. I’m sure everyone replying is well intentioned but I don’t get how we can reply with such stone cold answers. In terms of moving to a different country as brother @Mahdavist said is true but in a lot of circumstances unrealistic. Most people (especially those who can’t even afford private healthcare) don’t have the financial means to emigrate and often is a time prolonging project. These so called laws of the land are violated in the clip, including the most basic human right: the right to life.

Edited by Mariam17
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1 hour ago, Mariam17 said:

The matter of the fact is that the NHS are facing cuts in the growing capitalist London economy which favours those from a wealthy background and are able to afford private healthcare. It costs them to keep that child on life support.  Hence, they mercilessly don’t care if she dies as she is just a statistic.

If that's the case then In sha Allah they will have their punishment in the hereafter.

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

If the personnel of the hospital have certain rules and regulations then we must respect them. This is standard etiquette. Nothing slave like about it. 

Respect them by having your own child killed? Respect them by having your child suffer alone? Do you understand what you are saying? May Allah never put us in such situation.

 

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5 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Respect them by having your own child killed? Respect them by having your child suffer alone? Do you understand what you are saying? May Allah never put us in such situation.

 

I don't make the rules brother I'm just informing you of them. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) indeed protect us from such things. 

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While I sympathize with the parents, but they should be aware of the laws and willing to abide by them if they live in that country. The parents of the girl in this case were treated like any other citizen would be treated so there is no injustice happening here. 

At the risk of offending the members here since most of you are Muslims living in the west I would like to say that people immigrate to the west from Muslim countries in hoards, not talking about the refugees but people who want to live in the west, and most of them don't look past the bright shining lights of the Europe and US. When situations like these arise then they start suddenly remember the rules, rights and ethics of a Muslim society. You can't have your cake and eat it too! 

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40 minutes ago, starlight said:

The parents of the girl in this case were treated like any other citizen would be treated so there is no injustice happening here. 

Salam sister. I agree with your point in general to an extent about the whole emigration issue. But grappling the father, denying him his medicine whilst he repeatedly tells the officers of his health condition, resulting in a heart attack the next day isn’t how any other citizen is treated. And whether it is or isn’t for arguments sake that is still unjust treatment.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Mariam17 said:

But grappling the father, denying him his medicine whilst he repeatedly tells the officers of his health condition, resulting in a heart attack the next day isn’t how any other citizen is treated

The whole incident is very sad but the police and medical staff did ask them to leave verbally several times. They created a lot of disturbance. There must be other patients in the ICU. 

This reminded of a saying 

Imam al-Kazim ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘The catastrophe is but a single one for the patient man, and two for the anxious one.’[Tuhaf al-’Uqul, no. 414]

May Allah give peace to their hearts

 Their daughter was in a coma and having her parents there or not would not have made any difference to her. Probably leaving the ICU quietly and sitting outside reciting the Quran would have eased this difficult time and benefitted both them and their child. 

Many times things can't be the way we want and then we should think rationally and not let our emotions get the better of us. Lots of times we can't be with our loved ones no matter how much we wish.If we study the lives of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) maybe we can learn sabr and forbearance.Hazrat Zainab(sa) stood with a bleeding heart looking at the plains of Karbala where her brother was being slaughtered a few metres away from her..... Only  Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows how much she wanted to be near his brother in his last moments.

Edited by starlight
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@starlight You know sister when you put it like that my perspective has now changed. Your right, emotions are being too much involved allowing us to make assumptions.

8 minutes ago, starlight said:

Imam al-Kazim ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘The catastrophe is but a single one for the patient man, and two for the anxious one.’[Tuhaf al-’Uqul, no. 414]

Jazak’Allah sister for the Hadith.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, starlight said:

When situations like these arise then they start suddenly remember the rules, rights and ethics of a Muslim society. You can't have your cake and eat it too! 

Yes you can. This land and dunya belongs to Allah, and we humans have the permission to life there in peace.

Edited by AkhiraisReal
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5 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Yes you can. This land and dunya belongs to Allah, and we humans have the permission to life there in peace.

Okay, go ahead then. Try entering a country without a visa. I will wait for the updates. 

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49 minutes ago, starlight said:

They created a lot of disturbance.

 several cops, arguing and wrestling their family members didn't bring the disturbance?

49 minutes ago, starlight said:

Their daughter was in a coma and having her parents there or not would not have made any difference to her. Probably leaving the ICU quietly and sitting outside reciting the Quran would have eased this difficult time and benefitted both them and their child. 

If I am seeing correctly in the video, the father is holding his daughters hand and probably reciting something quietly or in his head. Maybe he's maybe he's not.

I think people have lost it. They have forgotten their values and virtues to that of a slave.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, starlight said:

Okay, go ahead then. Try entering a country without a visa. I will wait for the updates. 

Just because you are prevented from entering another country doesn't mean you don't have the "right" to enter it.

As human beings we have all the rights in the world. As corporations we have the rights of a slave.

 

Edited by AkhiraisReal
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

several cops, arguing and wrestling their family members didn't bring the disturbance?

There would have been no cops,no arguing or wrestling if they had followed the hospital rules. 

The rest of your arguments are baseless. There are rules to be followed everywhere. There is a museum inside Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) shrine which is open at alternate hours for men and women. The first time I went there the women's hour was almost ending and the caretaker told me I had to leave even though I had just come. What should I have done, argued that I wanted to stay? created a fuss because it's Imam's Roza and 'as a human being I had a right'? What about Iraq refusing any outsiders for Ashura this year? Corporate slaves? Which world do you live in???

Edited by starlight
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7 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Most of this is common sense but if it helps I will share it:

https://www.al-islam.org/a-code-of-practice-for-muslims-in-the-west-ayatullah-sistani/dealing-laws-non-muslim-countries

This will clear up any confusion inshaAllah

The doctors wanted to kill his daughter when they couldve kept her alive, the father is actually a doctor too so he knows that they were in the wrong, the only reason they were killing her was because she is "costly", greed should never be accepted even if the law of the lans endorses it, I would defnetly act like the father, he was preventing the doctors from removing the ventelator which would kill his daugther, he was actually protecting his daughter from death, because he was protecting her life they called the cops on him and told him indirectly to basically accept his daughters death because of their greed.

 

Thank god he is filing a law suit against them after he got a heart attack too from this, I really hope he sues them big money so they learn that their greed will cost them thousands.

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46 minutes ago, HusseinAbbas said:

greed should never be accepted even if the law of the lans endorses it

Islam has not said pick the laws you like and disobey the ones you dont. You can't even pray in someone's home without their permission. 

If the laws are incompatible with islam you shouldn't be in that country or that hospital. 

If they are, then don't disobey them. 

The convenient 'best of both worlds' approach that seeks free services and benefits in non muslim countries while picking and choosing which laws suit you doesn't work. 

It's a tough situation and a harsh one, but as doctors they knew what they were getting into and in general as muslimeeen in non muslim countries we know what the implications are.

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Might be worth comparing some of the comments on this thread with those of readers of the Daily Mail, the British newspaper which broke this story.

Bear in mind that the Mail's readers tend to be anti-immigrant and pro-police. I have ranked the comments in terms of those most liked.

 

Screenshot 2020-08-04 at 07.09.34.png

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8584003/Footage-shows-police-violently-dragging-grieving-father-dying-six-year-old-daughter.html

 

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32 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Might be worth comparing some of the comments on this thread with those of readers of the Daily Mail, the British newspaper which broke this story.

Bear in mind that the Mail's readers tend to be anti-immigrant and pro-police. I have ranked the comments in terms of those most liked.

Looks like you're all on the same page. Alhamdulillah , nothing quite like the anonymous readers of the daily mail to validate ones position :hahaha:

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Looks like you're all on the same page. Alhamdulillah , nothing quite like the anonymous readers of the daily mail to validate ones position :hahaha:

 

If you want names here you go:

 

As one of the (named) tweets says, it's not looking good for either the hospital or the police:

 

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12 hours ago, starlight said:

There would have been no cops,no arguing or wrestling if they had followed the hospital rules. 

The rest of your arguments are baseless. There are rules to be followed everywhere. There is a museum inside Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) shrine which is open at alternate hours for men and women. The first time I went there the women's hour was almost ending and the caretaker told me I had to leave even though I had just come. What should I have done, argued that I wanted to stay? created a fuss because it's Imam's Roza and 'as a human being I had a right'? What about Iraq refusing any outsiders for Ashura this year? Corporate slaves? Which world do you live in???

No, you enter the museum another time when it's open.

As for a human life, there is no other time. She was dying. There is a big difference and it's sad that you don't seem to see the difference between the comparisons you made.

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Posted (edited)

I wasn't able to watch the whole video because it is quite destressing, however in all fairness I don't think the emotional reaction is necessarily the fairest way to judge this case - even though I'm sure all of us would have behaved the way that the father did.

According to the Mirror, the police were called because the father pushed a doctor, I personally wouldn't call the police if someone pushed me, I'm not sure how medical staff are told to react whether it is on a case by case basis or not, but nevertheless, pushing someone in UK law does count as assault.

"Police were called after staff at a hospital in the North of England reported Dr Abbasi for pushing another doctor who had tried to prevent him returning to his daughter's bedside."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grieving-dad-dragged-dying-daughters-22459946

After that, I'd rather not get into it, may Allah not test us the way that he tested these parents, but reading up on the case, people can judge for themselves her chances of living and the kind of life that should would lead given her health condition...

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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22 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

No, you enter the museum another time when it's open.

As for a human life, there is no other time. She was dying. There is a big difference and it's sad that you don't seem to see the difference between the comparisons you made.

No,' land and dunya belongs to Allah'. and museum is on this earth so I should be allowed to go when and where I please, right?

Putting an emotional twist on it doesn't change things. Both the parents were doctors and had worked in NHS , the father for 30 years. Were they not aware of the rules? Had they never been on the other end or least witnessed the same happening to other terminally ill patients and their family? 

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