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In the Name of God بسم الله

I’m planning to emigrate

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  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
2 minutes ago, Quran313 said:

I immigrated to. I felt a bit shy initially practicing religion, but after a while I got used to it. If you face your fear, you can get over it. If you want to be same and shy on it, then it would be hard to practice, and it may convince you that you should forget religion. I had so many occasions like not shaking hands in job interview, telling the CEO to take the wine off the table, blah blah blah :) Eventually you can do it if you do Tawakkol and work hard

You are right brother, I live in a Sunni country so it was hard for me as a Shia to pray in prayer room infront of Sunnis, in the end I faced my fear, now I can pray infront of Anti-Shi’a without getting scared plus the Sunni country which I live in are respectful to Shi’as. 

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21 minutes ago, Diaz said:

Brother, I did message you since March 2020 but till now you didn’t reply. Btw, I’m not planning to immigrate now, I will do it after few years. I’m still at high school.
 

Yeah I was thinking about Colorado, thanks for the info.

 

Sorry, they are actually in Detroit. I thought they are in Dearborn plus I don’t know them.

 

just to clarify I’m not planning to immigrate now, but I want to get ready from now so that I can immigrate once I’m ready.


 

Salam Brother. Im sorry i disnt see the message. Can u resend

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2 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

Salam Brother. Im sorry i disnt see the message. Can u resend

Np brother it’s ok, I just asked if you recommend me to move to Dearborn since u live there. You already replied in ur previous post.

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1 minute ago, Diaz said:

Np brother it’s ok, I just asked if you recommend me to move to Dearborn since u live there. You already replied in ur previous post.

Oh ok. Ive lived here for more than 10 years. In the old days ( i am speaking of the 90s MashahAllah communities in the US are growing so fast) Dearborn used to be a 'thing' because it was a large community with 2 or 3 masjids in a small area. Now there are equivalent sized communities in almost every state. For a man, the main concern is making a decent living and supporting the family. The places i mentioned, there are more opportunities for that. Dearborn is not a bad place for that but there are better places 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It seems to me that it's a requirement. ^

No, it just gives you more points in the selection process. Montreal is in Quebec and it's about 50-50 anglophone francophone. Regardless, you immigrate to Canada not it's provinces.

Edit: That being said, each province has an official language, and that is the language in the workplace too. New Brunswick is the only bilingual province and Quebec is the only french-speaking province.

Edit 2: Also, public servants in Quebec are no longer allowed to wear hijab and other religious garb/symbols at work.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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6 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Avoid non muslim countries at all cost brother, if not for your own sake then for the sake of your future offspring. Dont trade spiritual health for material wealth.

I don’t want to but if I there is no future in the place where I live, I need to move on.

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3 hours ago, Diaz said:

I don’t want to but if I there is no future in the place where I live, I need to move on.

What do you mean by no future? No jobs?

And are there really no other muslim nations that could offer you what you consider a future?

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37 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

What do you mean by no future? No jobs?

And are there really no other muslim nations that could offer you what you consider a future?

Yes, no job only for nepotism.

 

where? Can you recommend?

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Diaz said:

where? Can you recommend?

If we are talking strictly Arab-speaking with significant Twelver Shi'ite populations, then there are no good options. Lebanon is dangerous (safety concerns). Iraq is even more dangerous (safety concerns). Kuwait is a gulf country (nepotism issue). Bahrain is a gulf country (nepotism issue) and is often dangerous for Shias. Qatif (in KSA) is in the gulf region (nepotism issue) and is often very dangerous for Shias.

As far as I can tell, for the safety of Shias, only Kuwait and Oman are options. Though I'm guessing that both suffer from nepotism to a similar extent. Oman despite having significantly less Twelver Shias than Kuwait, is probably slightly safer for Shias.

Let me know what you think.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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Posted (edited)
On 8/4/2020 at 11:52 AM, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Avoid non muslim countries at all cost brother, if not for your own sake then for the sake of your future offspring. Dont trade spiritual health for material wealth.

I would agree on the basis that there is no sense of community among the Shias in the West (in my experience). Everything is distant. Nobody to keep you upright on the straight path. Nobody to keep you sane. If there was a strong sense of community, actively encouraging each other to partake and helping each other out, then we wouldn't be "trading our spiritual health for material wealth".

Further, expect nobody among general society to agree with your opinions or understand your beliefs. You slowly feel like you're losing your mind. You start to think that you're a lunatic. In your head, you stand out like a sore-thumb. This is even true among your own family, you feel different. It's truly like different worlds. Very different base assumptions.

Despite the huge numbers of Shias in the West, it feels like we have no sense of community or sticking together-ness. Also, don't expect any deep theological conversations. Expect everything to fit popular contemporary narratives. Though this is also true in the East, it's much worse here in the West, as there's nobody else to turn to for guidance, and the internet is not all that helpful in these endeavors, especially if you are only limited to English. Though I suppose the Subcontinent and Khoja communities experience the same issues.

Edit: That being said, overall the West is still likely a better option than the Muslim world, due to opportunities, relative peace, and relative freedom of religion/expression.

...

This is why I suggested Tanzania initially. At least over there they appreciate Monotheism, and society is not super ideologically heated like in the West. That's a good base for community-building, though it's a terribly poor country.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Diaz said:

where? Can you recommend?

If we are talking strictly English-speaking countries with significant Muslim-populations, that aren't poor, then there are some options. 

Ghana (in West Africa) is relatively well-off and is peaceful. Indonesia & Malaysia is good too, but you may run into some issues as a Shia. Singapore, although not Muslim, has some Muslim communities (including Shias) and many perks. All the food is Halal, and the country is very rich. That being said, the living costs are very high and the country is very authoritative. I don't know much about Brunei, except that it's very rich, but I don't think it's very easy to immigrate to. Bangladesh is poor, and highly population dense, though it does have a significant number of Shia communities. South Thailand is the same. Suriname is 10% Muslim, though spiritually bankrupt, and poor. Ethiopia is poor, though the capital is okay, and they speak a little English. East African nations are in the same boat. South Africa may have some accommodations for Muslims (like Halal fast-food), but is one of the worst-off countries ever, and should be avoided like the plague (super dangerous). 

For Arab-speaking, the remaining Arab countries that I did not mention in my previous post are either dangerous, poor, or spiritually bankrupt & overly-progressive (Morocco, Tunisia).

Overall, my best pick is probably Ghana. Then, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore. Or any Western Countries. Among Western Countries, US and UK are the worst in terms of $, crime, culture (imo), immigrant relations. Nordic countries speak English, but they are very Islamaphobic. They all feel like the population wants to go to war with it's Muslims. 

I would suggest New Zealand since it's very peaceful and neutral and has plenty of natural resources which would make it great for the future, but the Christchurch shooting has left me permanently scared of the country, unfortunately. I can't stop thinking about how it was heavily reported to the gov't regarding what that man would do, yet they didn't prevent it from occurring, and then afterwards they created a huge gun ban. Then again the shooter was from Australia not New Zealand

Canada is pretty good, but I feel so isolated here. 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

As far as I can tell, for the safety of Shias, only Kuwait and Oman are options. Though I'm guessing that both suffer from nepotism to a similar extent. Oman despite having significantly less Twelver Shias than Kuwait, is probably slightly safer for Shias.

Exactly, You need nepotism to work in any of these countries. Plus GCC won’t survive for the next 5-10 years.
 

15 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I would suggest New Zealand since it's very peaceful and neutral and has plenty of natural resources which would make it great for the future, but the Christchurch shooting has left me permanently scared of the country, unfortunately. I can't stop thinking about how it was heavily reported to the gov't regarding what that man would do, yet they didn't prevent it from occurring, and then afterwards they created a huge gun ban. Then again the shooter was from Australia not New Zealand

I agree, New Zealand is peaceful country. Yeah, but at least he got punished bro and many people from New Zealand stood up with the Muslims so that’s a prove they don’t care about your religion. 
 

17 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Canada is pretty good, but I feel so isolated here. 

Why do you feel isolated?

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20 hours ago, Diaz said:

where? Can you recommend?

Come to Pakistan. Contrary to what some people say it's not a bad place to live. Don't give your productive years to a zionist country. It appears good when you are young and fit to run fast enough on their hamster wheel with the delusion of achieving something while in reality you are just contributing to funding zionists one way or another. The moment you slow down you are cast off because the materialistic society has no use for you anymore. Unless you have family and roots in the west do go there. 

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@starlight can a foreigner realistically migrate to Pakistan? I think employment is already challenging for the existing population, how would a foreigner go about getting employed? Not to mention the language barrier. 

Imagine trying to get a resident permit, house rental, transportation, daily supplies, legal paperwork, bank account, without being a local. 

Not saying this challenge doesn't exist in other countries too, but some places are more accustomed to handling it than others.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, starlight said:

It appears good when you are young and fit to run fast enough on their hamster wheel with the delusion of achieving something while in reality you are just contributing to funding zionists one way or another. The moment you slow down you are cast off because the materialistic society has no use for you anymore.

This was thought-provoking. 

Edited by AStruggler
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8 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

It appears good when you are young and fit to run fast enough on their hamster wheel with the delusion of achieving something while in reality you are just contributing to funding zionists one way or another. The moment you slow down you are cast off because the materialistic society has no use for you anymore.

This actually sounds like the status of expats/immigrants in Gulf Arab countries. 

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53 minutes ago, Diaz said:

I agree, New Zealand is peaceful country. Yeah, but at least he got punished bro and many people from New Zealand stood up with the Muslims so that’s a prove they don’t care about your religion.

Yet at the same time people only see eachother's differences. In solidarity, the police women (who wear tshirts) wore head-scarfs with their t-shirts. It looked very bizarre and it shows that non-Muslims see the head-scarf as unusual, but didn't even stop to think about how Muslim women also cover their arms, meaning that they simply think the head-scarf is a religious symbol. This ties into Orientalist conceptions of religious adornment as being sacred. This is related to how they see all religions as worshipping diferent gods, through their failure to understand and separate monotheism and polytheism in their minds. Eastern religions understand these things as "sacred", so they extend this logic to Western religions. This even extends to even the most basic of surveys that we assume are "neutral", such as: Belief in "A god" vs Belief in "No god". A more useful distinction for Muslims would be "Monotheism - submission to God" vs "Shirk - submission to other than God, which includes polytheism, paganism, pantheism, atheism, agnosticism, irreligion, etc."

Not to mention how the head-scarf is simply meant to distinguish Muslim women from non-Muslim women. So in reality, it was a terribly useless and offensive act. And it was a very confusing act, because the Orientalist narrative is usually to show the Hijab as a symbol of modesty, through fantasizing the Oriental woman (hyper-sexualization). Once the idea is in the Muslim's head that hijab is for modesty, it leads to the idea of removing hijab since one is not necessarily un-modest without it. 

Yet the move of the police was praised by Muslims since Muslims have had their faith compromised by secular humanism without even knowing it, and don't know about the issues I mentioned above. 

I know this sounds terribly nit-picky, but I think it needs to be said.

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1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

can a foreigner realistically migrate to Pakistan? I think employment is already challenging for the existing population, how would a foreigner go about getting employed? Not to mention the language barrier. 

I was assuming that OP has desi roots. Even if he doesn't one can get by without knowing Urdu. Most people living in the bigger cities understand English. 

Employment depends on the area of work and degree. I know several US qualified engineers and MBAs  who moved back and are happy with their US born kids also adjusting well. 

I wouldn't worry too much about work regardless of the geographical location. Rizq is from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and He trascends these boundaries. Even if Diaz is living in GCC no amount of nepotism can stand in the way of Allah's provisions. This is something we admit with our tongues but someties our hearts do not really agree. Rizq isn't something about which any believing Muslim should be worrying about. The real test is maintaining spirituality. 

There is a huge shia population in Pakistan. With some effort it's easily possible to raise your kids to be practising muslims. No Islamophobia. Not as much materialism as in the west and GCC. Social situations isn't ideal but the moral fabric of the society is still more or less intact particularly in the middle class. 

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2 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I know this sounds terribly nit-picky, but I think it needs to be said.

 

Not only does it sound nitpicky but it made absolutely no sense to me. The police made a symbolic gesture to show their solidarity with their muslim population, and you think they offended muslims because their (non muslim) hijab was incomplete?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Not only does it sound nitpicky but it made absolutely no sense to me. The police made a symbolic gesture to show their solidarity with their muslim population, and you think they offended muslims because their (non muslim) hijab was incomplete?

Obviously Muslims weren't offended, but...

I think a useful gesture would have been to give Muslims a platform to shatter misconceptions that cause these shootings. Not this pandering that fails to address the issue. If these terrorists thought we were all 'one', then they wouldn't be shooting us up. Dressing up as Muslims would further aggravate them too, and feed into their fears. Treating the hijab as a costume is not an act of solidarity. Taking guns away is a disservice to the Muslims who could have defended themselves. The 2A is the only good thing the USA has going for it. Too bad it's population is too immoral to have every risen up as a well-regulated militia against it's government's tyranny though. 

Though obviously there are a few issues with what I'm saying too. 1. Which Muslims are we giving a platform? If they're not clerics, I won't trust them. If they are clerics, the non-Muslims won't trust them, etc. 2. It is an act of solidarity with the Muslims. The goal is to make Muslims feel safe, not to change the attitudes of Islamaphobes. 3. The gun debate is heated. Where do we draw the line for tyranny to be occurring? What extent of gun rights should be in place to allow for militias? Our views would have to be monolithic to form a militia? Etc.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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Posted (edited)

Thank you guys for the help, I’m happy that you guys are helping me.

4 hours ago, starlight said:

I was assuming that OP has desi roots. Even if he doesn't one can get by without knowing Urdu. Most people living in the bigger cities understand English. 

I am hybrid, my father is from Levant and my mother is from Southeast Asia/East Asia. I will check more about Pakistan thanks. Btw, I have a Pakistani friend and she immigrated to U.K. when she got married. She love Pakistan but she said it’s hard to live there, I think it was because of jobs.

Edited by Diaz
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On 8/5/2020 at 12:30 AM, Diaz said:

Yes, no job only for nepotism.

 

where? Can you recommend?

 

Brother this is dunya, your not going to be able to avoid problems, problems are a part of this life. Wherever you go, you will be facing problems in one shape or the other, its only lucky people who can pick their problems.

The type of problems you face in muslim countries (for now) are mainly financially related. However the type of problems you will be facing in the west are mainly spiritually related and those are FAR worse because jannah is not limited to wealthy people but it is limited to spiritually pure people.

Please consider the negative spiritual impact it will have on yourself as well as any future offspring of yours if you do decide on the west. I can make a whole list of things you will experiance in the west that will drastically affect you spiritually in a negative way, do you want me to do that? Or can you imagine the stuff yourself?

 

I know there is nepotism in the middle east but regardless of that, milions of people still have jobs and work everyday, maybe not all of them have nice cars and big villas, but trust me, even here in the west most of us dont have nice cars and big villas, our incomes are relative to our expenses. And I am sure the people in the middle east who are more family oriented and stick together and are more social sleep better and laugh more than the people in the west who tend to be the opposite. In the west, people are alive but most of them do not live life, theres a difference between being alive and living.

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12 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

The type of problems you face in muslim countries (for now) are mainly financially related. However the type of problems you will be facing in the west are mainly spiritually related and those are FAR worse because jannah is not limited to wealthy people but it is limited to spiritually pure people.

I actually tried to use this argument once with someone who lives in a muslim country, and his reply was that he actually envied those of us in the West who are spared from the haraam of bribing officials on a regular basis to get basic and standard tasks done.

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3 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

I actually tried to use this argument once with someone who lives in a muslim country, and his reply was that he actually envied those of us in the West who are spared from the haraam of bribing officials on a regular basis to get basic and standard tasks done.

I don't know which country this is and what were the actual situations in which the person was forced to bribe but having lived and worked in Pakistan all my life I haven't had to bribe anyone until now Alhumdollilah. May Allah never put me in a situation in the future where I am forced to do so. Let me add that it's not that I have led a very sheltered life where things were handed to me on a plate. I have been involved in properties matters, buying cars, gotten lots of paperwork done for various issues. 

I think as we near the end of times more so than ever we need to trim and roll back our dunya affairs(properties, businesses etc) to save ourselves from sinning. It's going to get more and more difficult to hold on to faith as time goes by and expanding worldly affairs is one potential pitfall. It's mostly in property and financial matters that money exchanges hands illegally. So involve yourself in only what is essential and be prepared to walk away from status and position if it involves haram at any step. This is the only way to gain salvation.

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6 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

I actually tried to use this argument once with someone who lives in a muslim country, and his reply was that he actually envied those of us in the West who are spared from the haraam of bribing officials on a regular basis to get basic and standard tasks done.

When it comes to corruption, most of the problems in the middle east are caused by the people who live there. Its a cultural problem.

Most people who complain about such things, have no problems being on the other end of the situation and in fact they consider it being smart when they do it themselves but when others do it to them, they consider it wrong and injust.

And lastly, from my own observations and comparisons, generally speaking, people from the MENA countries love to exaggerate.

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  • Haji 2003 changed the title to I’m planning to emigrate
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  • Veteran Member

:salam:

Dear brother @Diaz, focus on getting your degree, you will consider your plans when needed. 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) only knows what the World will be in the next few years. See the UAE Israhell deal that just took place. Nothing is certain as of today. Countries may rose, others may fall. 

 

"اللّهُمَّ إِنّا نَرْغَبُ إِلَيْكَ في دَوْلَة كَريمَة تُعِزُّ بِهَا الإسْلامَ وَأَهْلَهُ، وَتُذِلُّ بِهَا النِّفاقَ وَأَهْلَهُ، وَتَجْعَلُنا فيها مِنَ الدُّعاةِ إِلى طاعَتِكَ، وَالْقادَةِ إِلى سَبيلِكَ، وَتَرْزُقُنا بِها كَرامَةَ الدُّنْيا وَالاْخِرَةِ"

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