Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Sunnis, I'm willing to debate with anyone of you over Hadith al Thaqalayn, Prove that they are the Book of Allah and Sunnah.

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

:salam:

:bismillah:

I created this post because this is literally what we follow, Ahlulbayt or Sunnah. So by proving that 'Kitab Allah and Sunnah' is unauthentic than it proves that 50% is based off following an unauthentic hadith.

If you can prove me wrong and that Kitab Allah and Ahlulbayt is unauthentic the 50% of the religion of Shia Muslims is false.

Edited by Ansur Shiat Ali
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Guest Sayed Taqvi said:

Salam, ok lets do this.....

:bismillah:

Before I start I'll say a few things,

If something happens between 2 people and someone asked them what happened, they will both raise a claim that's different. In this case,

1. One of them is lying, and the other is telling the truth.

2. They are both lying.

So if a hadith that is Sahih differs from another Sahih hadith that is on the same topic than one of them is wrong.

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him:

Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the MEMBERS OF MY HOUSEHOLD I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

 "Sahih" Muslim Hadith 5920

https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/55

There are many more books this hadith, but putting them all on here would take too much space. Besides that is from "Sahih" Muslim one of your 6 books.

Now where did Book of Allah and Sunnah come from?

Muwatta, by Malik ibn Anas, Hadith 1628

Yahya related to me from Malik that he heard that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet."

https://sunnah.com/malik/46 <--------Scroll down to the 3rd hadith

This hadith is Mursal/disconnected, Malik Ibn Anas was no where near the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). So how did Malik her from the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)?

Now some "Sunni" scholars went ahead and decided to give it a chain, there is 6 of them

Chain 1. Salih Ibn Musa al Talhi, Munkar al Hadith.

Chain 2. Kathir Ibn Abdullah, Corner of Lies.

Chain 3. Sayf Ibn Umar al Tamimi, (Narrated your Abdullah Ibn Saba story) He lies so much in Hadith and History that people called him a heretic.

Chain 4. Abdullah Ibn Abi Najeeh, a deceiver

Chain 5. Yazid Ibn Aban al Raqashi, Munkar and weak in Hadith.

Chain 6. Ismael Ibn Abi Oais, a liar, steals and makes his own Hadith, and is not trustworthy.

I think I've made my point clear as a clean glass.

Edited by Ansur Shiat Ali
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, 786:) said:

What is the difference between Sunnah and AhlulBayt? According to Shias, Ahlulbayt only implemented the Sunnah. So why are you implying that there is some sort of rift between the two?

Definition of Sunnah of the Prophet (saw): The actions and traditions of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Definition of Ahlulbayt: People of the household (of the Prophet, they are Imam Ali, Fatima, and their 2 sons)

Now let's rephrase the Hadith,

I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the actions and traditions of his Prophet.

Now the other,

I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and my Household who are Ali, Fatima, and their two sons.

The difference is clear.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
18 minutes ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

Definition of Sunnah of the Prophet (saw): The actions and traditions of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Definition of Ahlulbayt: People of the household (of the Prophet, they are Imam Ali, Fatima, and their 2 sons)

Now let's rephrase the Hadith,

I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the actions and traditions of his Prophet.

Now the other,

I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and my Household who are Ali, Fatima, and their two sons.

The difference is clear.

In theory there is no difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
48 minutes ago, 786:) said:

In theory there is no difference.

What do you mean? Because they are very different things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, 786:) said:

You think following the Prophets Sunnah is any different than following Ahlulbayt?

First answer my first question. Which hadith is the correct one?

Edited by Ansur Shiat Ali
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
5 hours ago, 786:) said:

According to Shias, Ahlulbayt only implemented the Sunnah.

That is wrong. They didn't only implement the Sunnah of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). They kept Islam safe, they made sure people were following the right path.

Take Imam al Husayn for example, he saw that the people were quiet against the tyranny of Banu Ummayah, like Yazid (la) who drunk alcohol or Muawiya digging up graves. They protected the religion of Islam.

Now please go back on topic and don't dodge the question. Which Hadith is the correct one?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Most indications are that the version with Ahlulbayt is the more authentic version. However, what I am contesting is that it makes zero difference on whether we should follow Quran + Sunnah of the Prophet or Quran + Ahlulbayt. The Ahlulbayt get us to the Prophet’s Sunnah so in theory these are the same path.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
36 minutes ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

Take Imam al Husayn for example, he saw that the people were quiet against the tyranny of Banu Ummayah, like Yazid (la) who drunk alcohol or Muawiya digging up graves. They protected the religion of Islam.

I am not sure what you are getting at here? What if there was a third version of the hadith that said Follow Quran + Ali. Would you have any gripes with it? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

That is wrong. They didn't only implement the Sunnah of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). They kept Islam safe, they made sure people were following the right path.

Take Imam al Husayn for example, he saw that the people were quiet against the tyranny of Banu Ummayah, like Yazid (la) who drunk alcohol or Muawiya digging up graves. They protected the religion of Islam.

Now please go back on topic and don't dodge the question. Which Hadith is the correct one?

You seem to be brainwashed.  like....

  A LOT.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

@786:) I believe the matter is whether the Prophet said I am leaving behind the Ahlulbayt or Sunnah.

If we can establish that the Prophet said I am leaving behind the Ahlulbayt, then we should not misquote him, because 'in theory they are the same.'

Therefore, did the Prophet say he is leaving behind the Ahlulbayt or Sunnah? considering the evidence presented it is safe to say that what he said was that he is leaving behind the Ahlulbayt - there is no need for arbitrary semantics to prove a point which is essentially not related to this thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, 786:) said:

It is absurd to imply Quran + Sunnah is some hell bound path.

Salam it's implying Holy Quran+Sunnah through (infallible)  Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام)  not fallible Sahaba & other random people currently Sunnis say they just follow tradition of Sahaba that they accustomed  to semi-infallible  prophet  Muhammad (pbu) but for shias is tradition  of infallible Imams that accustomed  to total infallible  prophet  Muhammad (pbu) .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Zaid ibn. thabit, he said: “The Messenger of Allah said: I am leaving with you two Caliphs, the book of Allah; the rope between the heavens and the earth and my offspring, my Ahlulbayt. They will not separate until they meet me at the pond (of kawther)”

[“The chain is hassan(reliable)”]

Sunni references:

Book: Musnad Ahmad Ibn hanbal, verified and commented(footnotes) by Hamza Ahmad al-zain, volume 16, page 28.

 

The Messenger of Allah said:”I am leaving with you two CALIPHS, Allah’s Book, a rope between the heavens and the earth and my offspring, my Ahlulbayt. They will Not separate until they meet me at the pond (of kawther)”

[“the documentation is Sahih(authentic)”]

Sunni: references 

Book: Sahih of Al-jami’i Al Sagheer for the scholar Al-Albani, volume 1, page 482, Hadith number 2457.

Narrated by Jabir Ibn. Abdullah: “ I was with the prophet in his pilgrimage as he was on his camel speaking, I heard him say: “O people, I left with you that which if you abide by, you will never go astray, Allah’s book and my offspring, my Ahlulbayt.”

 

[documentation is Sahih(perfect) in Al-Arnaoot’s view. Al-Arnaoot says: Al-Sindhi in the explanation of “my Ahlulbayt” it was as if the prophet made them(Ahlulbayt) equal in importance even in his position...”]

Sunni references:

Book: Al-jami’i al-Kabeer, sunan al-tirmidhi, for Imam al-hafidh, revised by Shuaib al-Arnaoot, part 6, Page 235


Narrated by Ali Ibn Abi Talib, “the prophet was under the tree in (ghadir) khumm. He came out and took Ali’s hand and said: don’t you testify Allah is your Lord? They said: ‘yes’ then he said: ‘don’t you testify that Allah and His Messenger have more right over you, than your own selves, and that Allah and His messenger are your Mawla(Masters)’ they said: ‘yes’ then he said: whoever Allah and myself are his Mawla(Master) then he(Ali) is his Mawla(Master). And I left in you that which if you take and abide by, you would never go astray, Allah’s Book and my Ahlulbayt.’”

[narrated by ishaaq, with a Sahih(perfect) chain of narrators” said by imam Al-Bouseeri. And the Hadith of Ghadeer khumm was directed by al-Nisai’i] 

Sunni references:

Book: Ithaf Al-Khiyara Al-Mahara, for the Imam al-haafiz shahaab ul-deen al-Buseeri, introduced by sheik Dr. Ahmad Ma’bad, member of council of education in Islam Muhammad bin su’ood university, revised and reassured by Dar al-mishkat for scientific research. Supervised by Abu tameem yassir Ibn Ibrahim. Volume 7(first edition, 1999, Al-Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.) Page 210, in the prophets quote: whoever I am his Mawla Ali is his mawla. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
11 hours ago, 786:) said:

You think following the Prophets Sunnah is any different than following Ahlulbayt?

Essentially no. In reality many have laid the claim to following or promoting the sunnah, whereas the path that the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) has specifically defined is the one through the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

One of the core reasons for the split in the ummah is the abandonment of the specific narration from the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). If we all followed it there would essentially be no shia-sunni split. 

By abandoning a well established narration and somehow replacing it with a weaker (in terms of reference) alternative, the doors have opened up for anyone and everyone to claim to be transmitting the sunnah whereas in reality the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) safeguarded it by designating the ones who would guide future generations to it and through it. 

The narration is essential and very eloquently sums up the very basis of Islam (or if you want to be sect specific: Shiism).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Essentially no. In reality many have laid the claim to following or promoting the sunnah, whereas the path that the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) has specifically defined is the one through the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام). 

One of the core reasons for the split in the ummah is the abandonment of the specific narration from the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). If we all followed it there would essentially be no shia-sunni split. 

By abandoning a well established narration and somehow replacing it with a weaker (in terms of reference) alternative, the doors have opened up for anyone and everyone to claim to be transmitting the sunnah whereas in reality the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) safeguarded it by designating the ones who would guide future generations to it and through it. 

The narration is essential and very eloquently sums up the very basis of Islam (or if you want to be sect specific: Shiism).

Sunnis (traditional) have not abandoned the Ahlul Bayt narration.  
Sunnis feel they are the true followers of the Ahlul Bayt.  Any Sunni who knows his tradition will tell you this.  

this is how I see it:

Shiaism was never really an “ideology” or an “ism” (unlike it is today).  It was simply a select and small group of close companions living with the Imams who benefitted from them directly in a way others couldn’t (they received esoteric knowledge from the Imam(s)).  These companions were of an elite group (the “Shia”).  It was always meant to be a lived reality (where one benefits from the Imam directly).  

Today’s Shiaism is not Shiaism (it Is not even worthy of being called a real religion).  If there are any real Shias it would be like maybe a number you can count on your fingers (I would imagine).  Because the elite (the Muqarrabin) are always a minority.  And so we are talking about a minority of a minority (today’s Shiaism that constitute only less than 3% of human population).    

In the traditional Sunni world (which is very alive and active), direct transmission of esoteric teachings via a lineage going back to the Prophet (S) through the Imams (عليه السلام) is very much accessible.  
 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
25 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Sunnis (traditional) have not abandoned the Ahlul Bayt narration.  

We know what they really have abandoned and you know that too. 

Abandoned the sermon of Ghadir, abandoned the commands of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and appointed their own caliph.

Abandoned Syeda Fatima s.a over Abu Bakr in the case of Fadak.

And there are much more. 

So let them keep the narrations in their books & continue to portray as they are blind & deaf who cannot get to the truth. Let them mix the truth & falsehood.

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 27:
وَيَوْمَ يَعَضُّ الظَّالِمُ عَلَىٰ يَدَيْهِ يَقُولُ يَا لَيْتَنِي اتَّخَذْتُ مَعَ الرَّسُولِ سَبِيلًا

And the day when the unjust one shall bite his hands saying: O! would that I had taken a way with the Apostle
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 28:
يَا وَيْلَتَىٰ لَيْتَنِي لَمْ أَتَّخِذْ فُلَانًا خَلِيلًا

O woe is me! would that I had not taken such a one for a friend!
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 29:
لَّقَدْ أَضَلَّنِي عَنِ الذِّكْرِ بَعْدَ إِذْ جَاءَنِي وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِلْإِنسَانِ خَذُولًا

Certainly he led me astray from the reminder after it had come to me; and the Shaitan fails to aid man.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 30:
وَقَالَ الرَّسُولُ يَا رَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِي اتَّخَذُوا هَٰذَا الْقُرْآنَ مَهْجُورًا

And the Apostle cried out: O my Lord! surely my people have treated this Quran as a forsaken thing.
(English - Shakir)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

@eThErEaL thanks for your feedback brother. I see things slightly differently. The guidance of the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and the aimmah (عليه السلام) was not limited to those who sat with them and learnt from them, rather they have left behind teachings through which we all can continue to benefit. I believe this is why the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) clearly stated that he was leaving behind two weighty things.

Shiism is nothing other than to follow and abide by these teachings. If some are not doing it correctly, may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide them, but this is what the prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) has left behind for us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Karbala
29 minutes ago, Cool said:

We know what they really have abandoned and you know that too. 

Abandoned the sermon of Ghadir, abandoned the commands of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and appointed their own caliph.

Abandoned Syeda Fatima s.a over Abu Bakr in the case of Fadak.

And there are much more. 

So let them keep the narrations in their books & continue to portray as they are blind & deaf who cannot get to the truth. Let them mix the truth & falsehood.

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 27:
وَيَوْمَ يَعَضُّ الظَّالِمُ عَلَىٰ يَدَيْهِ يَقُولُ يَا لَيْتَنِي اتَّخَذْتُ مَعَ الرَّسُولِ سَبِيلًا

And the day when the unjust one shall bite his hands saying: O! would that I had taken a way with the Apostle
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 28:
يَا وَيْلَتَىٰ لَيْتَنِي لَمْ أَتَّخِذْ فُلَانًا خَلِيلًا

O woe is me! would that I had not taken such a one for a friend!
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 29:
لَّقَدْ أَضَلَّنِي عَنِ الذِّكْرِ بَعْدَ إِذْ جَاءَنِي وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِلْإِنسَانِ خَذُولًا

Certainly he led me astray from the reminder after it had come to me; and the Shaitan fails to aid man.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Furqan, Verse 30:
وَقَالَ الرَّسُولُ يَا رَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِي اتَّخَذُوا هَٰذَا الْقُرْآنَ مَهْجُورًا

And the Apostle cried out: O my Lord! surely my people have treated this Quran as a forsaken thing.
(English - Shakir)

 

Yes we definitely do know who has abandoned sunnah.........it’s EASY to post verses you THINK are agreeing with you here I will post them too, if by posting verses you think you are on sunnah well 2 can play that game.

(6:159)

"As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects (Shiites), you have no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did." (6:159)


 

There you go..... A clear verse saying don’t break into Shias, if you do then your affair is with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and us muslims have no part in that, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will tell you the truth in the end.

 

No introduction No details a straight forward verse that’s telling you how it is which you should follow but instead you have ABANDONED the verse and followed a sect which the verse is warning you about.

so simple Alhamdulillah for Quran and sunnah.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
On 7/29/2020 at 9:31 PM, Ansur Shiat Ali said:

I created this post because this is literally what we follow, Ahlulbayt or Sunnah. So by proving that 'Kitab Allah and Sunnah' is unauthentic than it proves that 50% is based off following an unauthentic hadith.

I present the following links for evidence for the authenticity  of Kitab and Ahl alabayt version:

The verses, hadith  and discussion in the above mentioned links provide certain concrete evidence  that the true sunna of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) comes alone through Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام),   both are never separated and they should be followed for true religion.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Sunnis (traditional) have not abandoned the Ahlul Bayt narration.  
Sunnis feel they are the true followers of the Ahlul Bayt.  Any Sunni who knows his tradition will tell you this.

Here comes the Sunni apologetics. 
 

buddy you get your stuff from Abu huraira, Aisha, Anas bin Malik, Abdullah ibn Omar. 
what Ahlulbayt?? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, Guest Karbala said:

Yes we definitely do know who has abandoned sunnah....

Yea it’s Ahlulsahaba.
 

I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (hussain) said to zaid: who are the members of his household? Aren’t his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the member of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: who are they? Thereupon he said: Ali and the offspring of Ali, Aqil and the offspring of Aqil and the offspring of Jafar and the offspring of Abbas. Hussain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: yes 

Sunni references:

Sahih Muslim,Book 31, Hadith 5920


The prophet said, there will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will lead the Islamic world).” He then said a sentence which i did not hear. My father said, “All of them(those rulers) will be from Quraysh”

Sunni references:

Sahih bukhari, Book 89, Hadith 329

 

I joined the company of the Holy prophet with my father and heard him say: This caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrater said: the he(the prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: what did he say? He said: he has said: All of them will be from the Quraysh 

Sunni references:

Sahih Muslim, Book 20, Hadith 4477, 4480

The Messenger of Allah said: “My ahlulbayt are like the gate of repentance of the children of Israel; whoever entered therein was forgiven”

Sunni references:

-Majma  al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami,v9,p168

-al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani, tradition 18

-Arba’in, by al-Nabahani,p216


why do yous deny this.

“The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: Your position to me is like that of Harun to Musa except that there will be no prophet after me, and that you are the caliph of every believer after me.”

[“The chain of narrators is reliable(Hassan) and the narrators are trustworthy and they are the narrators of the two sheiks”]

Sunni references:

Book: Al-sunnah by Ibn Abi As’asim Al-shaibani (287AH). Investigated by Al-Albani. Page 560, Hadith 1188

 

The Messenger of Allah said to Ali:”Your position to me is like that of Harun and to musa except there will be no prophet after me, and that your are the Caliph of every believer after me.”

[“The chain of narrators is hassan(reliable) and the narrators are the narrators of the two sheiks”]

Sunni references:

Book: Al-Sunnah by Imam abi baker Ahmed ibn Abi A’asim(287AH). Investigated by Dr al-Jawabra, professor of Hadith at Imam Muhammad Ibn su’ood University, Al-sumai’y institution. Volume 2, page 799.

 

dont forget ghadir Khumm. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
9 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Bring your proof about Imam Redha. If it’s from Majlisi then don’t worry about bringing the evidence as that speaks for itself.

This is (yet another) ignorant statement. The strength of a narration does not depend on whether it was reported in Bihar al Anwar or not. 

It's best to avoid commenting on matters of hadith if you're not aware of the basic elements of ilm ul hadith and ilm ur rijaal. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
23 hours ago, 786:) said:

Most indications are that the version with Ahlulbayt is the more authentic version.

Now did you and the rest of the "Sunnis" follow Ahlulbayt or did you put 3 tyrants in charge before Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

And the hypocrisy is insane, I've asked many "Sunnis" what they think of the authenticity of the hadith and they jump instantly and say its Sahih. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, 786:) said:

I am not sure what you are getting at here? What if there was a third version of the hadith that said Follow Quran + Ali. Would you have any gripes with it? 

Its a reject to your statement saying that the Imams (عليهم السلام) only implemented the Sunnah.

Edited by Ansur Shiat Ali
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare

fyi: Sunnah was used for against the Qur'an: FADAK .

Don't attribute another negative on top of did not leave a successor, now left two sources which were cause of divisions in the ummah. ( Qu'ran and Sunnah) . This all ultimately goes back to the the one who sent him ( Tawheed issue!)

Quote

- '...O you the best of women and daughter of the best of prophets, truthful in your speech... not turned away from your right...'

- 'By Allah, I have not done other than the opinion of the Messenger of Allah and not done but with his permission... I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "We the folk of prophets do not bequeath gold or silver, or houses or estates, but we bequeath the book and wisdom and knowledge and Prophethood, and what has been for us as income is for the ruler who succeeds us to do with it according to his ruling"...'

- 'O you the Doyenne of your father's nation, and the good tree of your sons... your ruling is implemented on what I own, but as for Fadak it is not mine, so do you want me to disobey your father (sawa)?'

Then Fatimah (عليه السلام) replied:

- 'May Allah be praised! My father the Messenger of Allah (sawa) would not abandon the Book of Allah, and not be disobedient to its rulings; rather he used to follow it and abide by its chapters (surahs). So, do you add to betrayal [of us] lying on him?'

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, THREE1THREE said:

There is a difference, one could be used as an excuse to get The Sunnah from every Tom,dick and Harry and other tells you through whom you should get the Sunnah. 

Both paths do not lead to ideal Islam. It’s the common ground of the two that is ideal Islam. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...