Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

My Position on LGBT Muslims

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

People also forget that there are Muslims who have homosexual tendencies who want to live a halal life. People are open to truth, we must be careful how we deliver it (3:159). 
 

Here’s a podcast with The Muslim Vibe with a Muslim man who has homosexual tendencies wanting to live halal:

@gayboyanon Salam brother, try give a watch to see what you think.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 273
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

In regards to transgenderism it is very clear that transitioning from one gender to another is only applicable to those who are medically deemed to be hermaphrodites as per the ruling(s) of Ayt. Khame

I would also like to add that the LGBT/Gender identity agenda is also (subtly) pushing the notion that 'non-LGBT' people should be comfortable (and accepting) to "experiment" in other "sexual ventures

Way to take the whole post out of context. He said that not condemning sins is destructive. He said the people of Lot [who engaged in sodomy in public] were aggressors, not people "being gay" as aggre

Posted Images

  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
1 hour ago, Mariam17 said:

People also forget that there are Muslims who have homosexual tendencies who want to live a halal life.

Here's a great resource:
https://muslimwithssa.wordpress.com/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
On 8/11/2020 at 9:57 AM, Mariam17 said:

1) sodomy is forbidden because that is what is stated in the Quran in the “how-to” of sexual conduct. Both heterosexual and homosexual.

This isn't entirely rule. Most maraji rule sodomy with one's wife as highly makrooh and needing the express consent of the wife.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With all due respect, I see it as very disturbing and worrisome that Muslims nowadays are taking a soft approach toward the LGBTQ community, even if it is motivated out of political convenience. The millennial generation of Muslims are already the least religious and least observant Muslims in our entire history. We have to reverse this dangerous trend, because quite frankly, our community is on the verge of a mass apostasy from Islam, especially the Muslim minority communities here in the Western hemisphere.

If our preachers don't regularly demonize and preach hatred against sodomy and homosexualism, it will not be sufficient to merely say "we hate the sin and not the sinner". It's not sufficient to say something like "homosexuality is haram, next question". We have to revive the culture of hatred toward sodomy and Sodomites, nurture a sentiment of disgust toward them, so as to safeguard our future generations from this very real danger to the Faith.

The LGBTQ is actually a manufactured community that didn't exist prior to the mid 20th century. It was actually created as a social engineering project, perhaps to undermine and sabotage the genuine struggle for civil rights and equality by religious and racial minorities.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mariam17 said:

People also forget that there are Muslims who have homosexual tendencies who want to live a halal life. People are open to truth, we must be careful how we deliver it (3:159). 
 

 

Muslims who have "homosexual tendencies" and what to live a Halal life should first of all never reveal to the public that they have such evil tendencies. They should live in the closet, in fact, make sure their closet is in another closet. In other words, they should give no indication that they are homosexual to the public, to safeguard their own reputation and to ensure that such behavior is never normalized in the Muslim world and community.

I can't take someone seriously who says he has homosexual tendencies on a public YouTube video or through some other media and then say he is trying to live a Halal life, because the very disclosing of his homosexual tendencies isn't Halal to begin with. As I said in my previous post, we Muslims have to revive the atmosphere of hatred and disgusting toward homosexualism and the LGBTQ, for the purpose of ensuring that it is never normalized or even near to being acceptable and tolerated within our society.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Muslims who have "homosexual tendencies" and what to live a Halal life should first of all never reveal to the public that they have such evil tendencies. They should live in the closet, in fact, make sure their closet is in another closet. In other words, they should give no indication that they are homosexual to the public, to safeguard their own reputation and to ensure that such behavior is never normalized in the Muslim world and community.

I can't take someone seriously who says he has homosexual tendencies on a public YouTube video or through some other media and then say he is trying to live a Halal life, because the very disclosing of his homosexual tendencies isn't Halal to begin with. As I said in my previous post, we Muslims have to revive the atmosphere of hatred and disgusting toward homosexualism and the LGBTQ, for the purpose of ensuring that it is never normalized or even near to being acceptable and tolerated within our society.

Salam brother, it is haram to reveal ones sins if they are encouraging them publicly etc for others to copy. However, this problem within the community is being addressed and given solutions for brothers or sisters suffering with such contradicting thoughts. How will they gain help if they are ostracised from society? Although not in the same degree of sin and I am not stating the treatment is the same, an alcoholic who is Muslim would need help and treatment otherwise the problem will continue, they cannot just stop entirely on their own without support.

You can be a Muslim who has done a sin and repented. The difference is engaging in the act and justifying it that contradicts the concept of being Muslim. The brother in the video is not doing that and instead wishing to eradicate the problem of homosexuality in the community.

Edited by Mariam17
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mariam17 said:

Salam brother, it is haram to reveal ones sins if they are encouraging them publicly etc for others to copy. However, this problem within the community is being addressed and given solutions for brothers or sisters suffering with such contradicting thoughts. How will they gain help if they are ostracised from society? Although not in the same degree of sin and I am not stating the treatment is the same, an alcoholic who is Muslim would need help and treatment otherwise the problem will continue, they cannot just stop entirely on their own without support.

You can be a Muslim who has done a sin and repented. The difference is engaging in the act and justifying it that contradicts the concept of being Muslim. The brother in the video is not doing that and instead wishing to eradicate the problem of homosexuality in the community.

It is not simply haram to reveal one's sins for the purpose of encouraging sin, there are many other scenarios and intentions under which revealing one's sin is haram. This is especially true concerning sins of a sexual nature. There are examples in the Sirah where someone came and admitted to having committed zina, thinking confessing the sin was a good thing and getting the punishment for it (100 lashes) is better, but they were told it was better for them to continue to conceal what Allah had hidden about them from the public. Therefore, it is always better to conceal one's private sins than confess them, even if the intention is not to boast or encourage sin. It is not necessary that someone whose head is filled with demons and has unnatural sexual feelings to publicly and openly declare that in order for him to get help and advice. The topic has been addressed in a general manner without the need of mentioning any specific person by the Ulama and other religious experts. If someone really needs to discuss his or her personal matter, why can't they simply approach a qualified and trusted scholar or leader privately, and handle the matter behind closed doors? What is the need to broadcast one's issue before the whole world? You know our society, once someone admits they are a homosexual, they will always be tainted with that, that's where the ostracism you are so concerned about will come from. What I'm saying is the way to avoid this social ostracism, i.e., the don't ask don't tell policy.

Likewise, alcoholics and drug addicts, should keep their problem a secret from the public as much as possible and approach qualified and trusted individuals who can help them privately and behind closed doors. There is no need to announce your problems to the whole world, what Allah has concealed from public He may overlook and conceal on Judgment Day, but if someone openly is revealing their sins and evil behavior, then they are responsible for how they are treated and viewed by the rest of society.

If this brother is interested in eradicating the problem of homosexuality in the community, how is it necessary for him to reveal his own private details and condition? That is totally unnecessary and inviting trouble for himself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
On 8/5/2020 at 8:04 PM, gayboyanon said:

They promote hate and act as if the West is the most evil thing in the world is non-Muslims. Their videos are what will lead people to extremism, even if that's not the intention.

Give us one example of out of any of their video's how they promote hate then, if you are truthful. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

@Cherub786 Revealing your struggles with opposite-sex attractions would create the same fahisha in society as revealing your struggles with same-sex attractions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

@Cherub786 Revealing your struggles with opposite-sex attractions would create the same fahisha in society as revealing your struggles with same-sex attractions.

Yes, which is why neither struggle should be revealed to the public. Although, both cannot be equated, as one is much, much more serious and dangerous than the other because one is unnatural and has no Halal avenue of being legalized, while the other does.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

@Cherub786 Revealing that you are struggling with engaging in homosexuality is different than saying you have same-sex attractions but you don't act on them.

Ideally, nobody would ever need to reveal their sexual preferences, including heterosexuals. But this is not even close to the world we will ever live in.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

@Cherub786 Revealing that you are struggling with engaging in homosexuality is different than saying you have same-sex attractions but you don't act on them.

Ideally, nobody would ever need to reveal their sexual preferences, including heterosexuals. But this is not even close to the world we will ever live in.

Again I disagree, it is not only ideal but necessary that people never reveal to the public that they have same-sex attraction, even if they don't act on them. Those who do reveal this to the public are inviting social ostracism toward themselves. A person should not make themselves controversial unnecessarily. In our time, we should revive the culture of hatred and antagonism toward the homos so there isn't the least shred of doubt in anyone's mind that we have no tolerance for homosexualism. Additionally, if someone reveals to the public they have same-sex attraction, they will make others (especially Muslims) uncomfortable around them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 8/13/2020 at 12:38 AM, Mariam17 said:

People also forget that there are Muslims who have homosexual tendencies who want to live a halal life. People are open to truth, we must be careful how we deliver it (3:159). 
 

Here’s a podcast with The Muslim Vibe with a Muslim man who has homosexual tendencies wanting to live halal:

@gayboyanon Salam brother, try give a watch to see what you think.

I've seen that. I feel horrible for him. I'm not sure if you've heard of internalised homophobia, but it's when gay people are raised in a community that's homophobic and wind up being homophobic themselves because of it. It's why an idea like the one  @Cherub786 had is genuinely dangerous. To teach someone to hate themselves... Just for what? For loving someone you disagree with?

 

That's what Ali is. He's been taught to be homophobic and it's so sad. It's been a while since I've seen the video, but didn't he say how he used to be effeminate and stuff? I don't like that he implies that all gay people are like that, or that if you are effeminate, you're automatically gay. I don't like that he's got a blog pushing gay people to get married to people of the opposite gender, because for most people, it would do more harm than good. His wife seems like a saint, and a genuinely good person that even though she knows he can't love her the same way she loves him, she still wants to be with him. Or maybe he's bi, but it's a harmful message to send to people. I have always disagreed with gay marriages for convenience. First, if you don't tell your wife you're gay, you're basing your marriage on a lie, and that's horrible, and if you do, then... You can never love them the way they love you, and the kids will notice. It's not fair on anyone.

I feel so bad for him, and he's not a hateful person, but he's promoting a harmful message.

The host is a good person. You can see him trying to understand, and it just sucks that the gay guest he chose to come on the podcast was more homophobic than a lot of Muslims. I mean, just look at the latest post on his blog.

16 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Give us one example of out of any of their video's how they promote hate then, if you are truthful. 

Damnit, I was hoping to never have to watch their videos again, but give me some time to rewatch their Mackinations series and I'll be able to give you plenty of examples.

 

23 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

such evil tendencies

Literally nothing to do with evil. You can say it's wrong, fine. You can't call it evil. That literally makes no sense.

 

22 hours ago, Quran313 said:

We all know the story of قوم لوط from Holy Quran

Yes. They died. And let's not use that as the pinnacle of morality, because I think we can all agree here that we shouldn't be killing gay people.

 

23 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

This isn't entirely rule. Most maraji rule sodomy with one's wife as highly makrooh and needing the express consent of the wife.

I mean, all sex requires the express consent of the other party. Otherwise it's rape.

 

19 hours ago, Mariam17 said:

This is a respectful discussion on homosexuality which I highly encourage brother @gayboyanon to watch.

https://youtu.be/dHFQ4XwZsxY

 

I'll try to watch it when I have more time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, gayboyanon said:

I've seen that. I feel horrible for him. I'm not sure if you've heard of internalised homophobia, but it's when gay people are raised in a community that's homophobic and wind up being homophobic themselves because of it. It's why an idea like the one  @Cherub786 had is genuinely dangerous. To teach someone to hate themselves... Just for what? For loving someone you disagree with?

How is homophobia a bad thing? I think it's a positive sentiment.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
23 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

This isn't entirely rule. Most maraji rule sodomy with one's wife as highly makrooh and needing the express consent of the wife.

Salam brother.

Anyone whose good at Arabic clearly knows the Quran states the frontal area is where u enter upon a woman. At the end of the day I follow the Quran and this statement above gives a loophole. The Imams didn’t do it, we follow the Imams, we can’t just pick a choose like the Quran states.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
12 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

How is homophobia a bad thing? I think it's a positive sentiment.

There’s a difference between homophobia and not agreeing with the act of homosexuality. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t give you a right to be homophobic e.g physical attacks etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
20 minutes ago, gayboyanon said:

I've seen that. I feel horrible for him. I'm not sure if you've heard of internalised homophobia, but it's when gay people are raised in a community that's homophobic and wind up being homophobic themselves because of it. It's why an idea like the one  @Cherub786 had is genuinely dangerous. To teach someone to hate themselves... Just for what? For loving someone you disagree with?

 

That's what Ali is. He's been taught to be homophobic and it's so sad. It's been a while since I've seen the video, but didn't he say how he used to be effeminate and stuff? I don't like that he implies that all gay people are like that, or that if you are effeminate, you're automatically gay. I don't like that he's got a blog pushing gay people to get married to people of the opposite gender, because for most people, it would do more harm than good. His wife seems like a saint, and a genuinely good person that even though she knows he can't love her the same way she loves him, she still wants to be with him. Or maybe he's bi, but it's a harmful message to send to people. I have always disagreed with gay marriages for convenience. First, if you don't tell your wife you're gay, you're basing your marriage on a lie, and that's horrible, and if you do, then... You can never love them the way they love you, and the kids will notice. It's not fair on anyone.

I feel so bad for him, and he's not a hateful person, but he's promoting a harmful message.

The host is a good person. You can see him trying to understand, and it just sucks that the gay guest he chose to come on the podcast was more homophobic than a lot of Muslims. I mean, just look at the latest post on his blog.

 

Salam brother. This is an interesting point you brought up that Insha’Allah I shall examine more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Yes and let’s keep it in the closet unaddressed for the problem to get worse and for brothers and sisters struggling with such to feel ostracised and go to the extreme. Nice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
12 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

How is homophobia a bad thing? I think it's a positive sentiment.

Any kind of phobia is a bad thing because it is an irrational fear of something. Whether homophobia, Islamophobia, arachnophobia or other kind of irrational fear.  Phobia can never be a positive sentiment. It causes an unnecessary conflict, both within your self and with other people.
Homosexual acts is a sin according to the Quran, but that's it. You don't need to hate or shame anybody because of that. It is none of your business. Allah did not appoint you haram police. You can't claim that you are more perfect than other people. So what are you going to answer when Allah asks you why you tried to be a self-appointed haram vigilante?

Imam Jafar Al Sadiq said:
"If you see something you don’t like in a brother, try to find 1-70 excuses for him. And if you can’t find an excuse, say 'There might be an excuse, but I don’t know it.'"

Why do you think that allmost every Sura in the Quran begins with "bi-smi llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīmi?" Or maybe you think that when Allah is the most forgiving, the most merciful, you don need to be?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
11 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

Imam Jafar Al Sadiq said:
"If you see something you don’t like in a brother, try to find 1-70 excuses for him. And if you can’t find an excuse, say 'There might be an excuse, but I don’t know it.'"

I doubt strongly he is referring to acts such as homosexual acts. Certainly, you are grossly taking it out of context.

This quote is referring to personality of a person, not sexual orientation; context matters.

If a person is preaching/glorifying/validating homosexual acts, and we as muslims stay silent, or even worse, preach not to hate it, that is a huge problem. And even if you are in a situation where due to fear for your well-being you cannot do anything or say anything, then at the very least you must oppose it strongly in your heart.

Nobody here fears homosexual acts, but surely every true muslim here hates it as well as anyone who openly supports it, just as one hates killing an innocent human and those who support such an atrocity.

As for those who happens have certain unusual feelings but does not preach it to be normal or correct, nobody hates you for that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, dragonxx said:

I doubt strongly he is referring to acts such as homosexual acts. Certainly, you are grossly taking it out of context.

This quote is referring to personality of a person, not sexual orientation; context matters.

I think that Imam Jafar Al Sadiq is saying to Muslims as a general rule of thumb not to be judgemental of one an other. Especially in regard to sin. If you want Islam to be a religion of hate you are really just confirming the prejudice of Islamophobes.

Just now, dragonxx said:

If a person is preaching/glorifying/validating homosexual acts, and we as muslims stay silent, or even worse, preach not to hate it, that is a huge problem.

If someone is preaching/glorifying/validating homosexual acts in public an other principle should also be applied; promoting good and forbidding evil. However that doesn't mean that you should hate anybody or be judgemental of them. For instance in case of pride-parades I think that everybody should be allowed to demonstrate for their rights not to be discriminated against. However in an ideal situation decency and dignity should be applied. Either should these people express self constraint or the society should impose rules of decency on such an event in order to avoid the blatant display of sexualising public spaces. In the place where I live the society doesn't do that so I tend to avoid such events.
One could advocate for society to apply laws of decency and vote for parties that will promote such laws, but one should not display hatred towards those who act indecent let alone resort to vigilante justice. When you hate someone and display hatred in public you are encouraging other to do violence.Then you are really doing the same as the pride parades do; encouraging other to sin.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

promoting good and forbidding evil. However that doesn't mean that you should hate anybody or be judgemental of them.

that's contradictory. You are trying to be so nice to appease others that you are compromising yourself, for example...

13 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

For instance in case of pride-parades I think that everybody should be allowed to demonstrate for their rights not to be discriminated against.

promoting good and forbidding evil is by definition judging one's actions. A muslim drinks alcohol, and you say don't do that it is wrong, that is a judgement of their action. If individuals parade homosexual acts, and you don't absolutely hate that, your faith has a deficiency. And if you are unable to do anything or say anything about it, then at the very least your heart, as a muslim, must reject it, as opposed to saying sure people can demonstrate for their right to male-male intercourse and marriage. If I said there is a pedophile parade, glorifying  adult-child intercourse, I wonder if you would say "they are demonstrating their right, don't discriminate against them on the basis of their orientation". 

You go on to say:

13 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

However in an ideal situation decency and dignity should be applied. Either should these people express self constraint or the society should impose rules of decency on such an event in order to avoid the blatant display of sexualising public spaces. In the place where I live the society doesn't do that so I tend to avoid such events.

You cannot have it both ways, you cannot say the prior sentence then say this, this is contradictory.

Islam is as much about hate as it is about love, because those who love justice must hate injustice.

Edited by dragonxx
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, dragonxx said:

Islam is as much about hate as it is about love, because those who love justice must hate injustice.

I accept if people can say sodomy is wrong. But if you call it evil, or call it an "injustice", that's just plain wrong. It's like you said, we must hate injustice. An injustice where people are made to become social parriahs for simply loving the wrong gender. Where kids are disowned for that, and where people are made to choose between their families and someone they love. Where in order to come out, someone who's gay would have to lose their family, their community, everything, just to be given the freedom to be themselves. That is injustice. Gay people existing is not injustice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, gayboyanon said:

I accept if people can say sodomy is wrong. But if you call it evil, or call it an "injustice", that's just plain wrong. It's like you said, we must hate injustice. An injustice where people are made to become social parriahs for simply loving the wrong gender. Where kids are disowned for that, and where people are made to choose between their families and someone they love. Where in order to come out, someone who's gay would have to lose their family, their community, everything, just to be given the freedom to be themselves. That is injustice. Gay people existing is not injustice.

Firstly, do not worry, all sins are a form of injustice, not just sodomy. Sometimes an injustice towards oneself, and sometimes also towards others. When sodomy is encouraged, this is an injustice to all who hear of this encouragement.

Indeed, gay people existing is not injustice assuming it does not entail encouragement of homosexual acts. Gay people hosting parades, holding weddings, exhibiting sexual acts in public or bragging about what they do in private, etc. this is all injustice from an islamic perspective. It's just and righteous from a Western perspective, and anyone living in the West shouldn't complain about it outwardly (but should complain and curse inwardly, i.e. within their heart); they should move out to another country if they are affected in such a way where their religion is compromised.

I agree in that nobody has a right to attack verbally or otherwise people of different sexual orientation; in the West they should be treated respectfully even if they are open about their orientation, should receive the appropriate healthcare, etc.

But in an islamic setting, then there is no such thing as being open about being gay, it's something a person keeps to themselves, just as a married man would not brag to the world about his secret mistress.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
9 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

Firstly, do not worry, all sins are a form of injustice, not just sodomy. Sometimes an injustice towards oneself, and sometimes also towards others. When sodomy is encouraged, this is an injustice to all who hear of this encouragement.

Indeed, gay people existing is not injustice assuming it does not entail encouragement of homosexual acts. Gay people hosting parades, holding weddings, exhibiting sexual acts in public or bragging about what they do in private, etc. this is all injustice from an islamic perspective. It's just and righteous from a Western perspective, and anyone living in the West shouldn't complain about it outwardly (but should complain and curse inwardly, i.e. within their heart); they should move out to another country if they are affected in such a way where their religion is compromised.

I agree in that nobody has a right to attack verbally or otherwise people of different sexual orientation; in the West they should be treated respectfully even if they are open about their orientation, should receive the appropriate healthcare, etc.

But in an islamic setting, then there is no such thing as being open about being gay, it's something a person keeps to themselves, just as a married man would not brag to the world about his secret mistress.

 

That's not the same thing at all though. Being open about having a spouse of the same gender would be akin to a man saying he has a wife.

But please know, this is in the sake of discussion, this isn't me calling you homophobic. I don't know, but the point is, I don't think you're hateful. This isn't me trying to call you out, because I know some discussions can turn into arguments because everyone hates each other. I don't hate you guys. Most of you guys are good people, and even though our disagreements are strong, the majority of users on this thread are good people and respectful.

So this question isn't asked out of malice. I'm not trying to catch you out. It's curiosity and a question to make you think:

If a Muslim was open about being gay in the mosque... If a kid was open about being gay in the mosque, as in simply saying they liked the same gender... In your opinion, what reaction by the community and his family would be the most just? You've talked about how we should treat Western LGBT people, but what about those in our community?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

To the person who asked about my evidence against Islamic Pulse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVDDs-www4A

I think if you watch this, you can see them villifying the West, trying to make out like supporting LGBT rights is an attack on Muslims. They use dark and tense music to try to make you afraid. My favourite part of the video (in an ironic way) starts at 9:31. The pastor in the video has literally called for the death of gay people before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w83kIAfuKoE

4:19 they try to say that an act against discrimination is wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM660RbhxfQ

13:57 - Here again, they use horror sound effects and talk about how the West is trying to enslave us.

Highlight of this video: 8:53. These learning objectives are what they say are bad. And included in that is a learning objective saying bullying is wrong. In their rampant hatred, they said bullying is OK and didn't realise. Or maybe they believe it's OK to bully gay people? I hope it's the former, but I fear it's the latter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0zMifYVcY

Another example of Islamic Pulse's hatred resulting in them saying the most ridiculous things. 5:20 where the guy complains about LGBT fighting for equality and saying that homophobia isn't the same as racism because being gay is a "choice". I think Islamic Pulse is an evil organisation, but more than that, they are completely incompetent. After how often they complain about Islamophobia, and they say complaining about homophobia isn't valid because it's "a choice". And yet by his very logic, he can't complain about Islamophobia because religion is a choice. Of course, this idea is completely ridiculous. All 3 are horrific: Racism, homophobia, Islamopobia, and all forms of discrimination. But Islamic Pulse don't believe in that.

My favourite bit of incompetence from Islamic Pulse is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R8lPXkyujc

Their logic in the entire video is basically: Some gay people are bad, therefore all gay people are bad. Again, the lack of self-awareness without realising that that's the same logic Islamophobes use to say that because Isis are bad, all Muslims are bad. Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit. I'd hope it's incompetence, but I fear that it's them trying to manipulate the facts to get people to blindly hate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, gayboyanon said:

If a Muslim was open about being gay in the mosque... If a kid was open about being gay in the mosque, as in simply saying they liked the same gender... In your opinion, what reaction by the community and his family would be the most just? You've talked about how we should treat Western LGBT people, but what about those in our community?

That's actually a question that is difficult to answer. Obviously if he or she doesn't know it is a sin, he or she should be informed, but it needs to be done in a sensitive, compassionate, and tactful way. 

If the individual knows that it is a sin and struggles with it, they should be treated as anyone else.

If they know it is a sin and don't care, they should be dealt with the same was as Muslim drunkards or fornicators. How do communities deal with known sinners in their midst? 

Edited by notme
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2020 at 2:56 AM, Cherub786 said:

We have to reverse this dangerous trend, because quite frankly, our community is on the verge of a mass apostasy from Islam, especially the Muslim minority communities here in the Western hemisphere.

If our preachers don't regularly demonize and preach hatred against sodomy and homosexualism, it will not be sufficient to merely say "we hate the sin and not the sinner". It's not sufficient to say something like "homosexuality is haram, next question". We have to revive the culture of hatred toward sodomy and Sodomites, nurture a sentiment of disgust toward them, so as to safeguard our future generations from this very real danger to the Faith.

I haven't read this thread, was just reading a few posts out of curiosity, but I wanted to quote this one because I think it is very contradictory and disconnected from reality.

Being open about my sexuality has brought me apart from more than enough hatred (that you claim is not enough) some interesting conversations with many straight men and women that are genuinely curious about this topic. The thing is, why the heck they ask me? Because something evidently doesn't work in the discourse they hear. And the discourse doesn't work because it is usually very biased, disconnected from reality, from the current discourses in the LGBT and queer theories, and is plagued of hate speech. Thus, this discourse fails.

Islam isn't about hating non-conforming ideologies, but about debating them with a higher reasoning and with lucid conclusions.

I really wish for this massive apostasy you refer to if it is in fact a reaction against hateful bigotry.

This is a socially relevant topic, if someone wants to discuss it, like it or not, that person will have to study the topic properly. Otherwise, the most honest response will be "homosexuality is haram". If you find it not enough, go study the topic and elaborate a discussion on something more respectable than empty hatred. Don't want to lose your time on reading about queer theories? Nice. Most scholars neither (and the few I have asked them about the topic, acknowledged it, they can't care less, and that's ok too).

As a side note, I have said this tons of times, but this is a very complex topic and we should avoid being stupid giving simplistic answers or doing unnecessary questions. We can all agree on "homosexuality is haram". From there, there aren't many islamic resources (from hadith or sunna) that speak about this topic specifically. If we want to tall about it, we have to understand this condition, the realities LGBT people live in the world and in the Muslim countries, and with a proper hollistic view, speak.

All my experience and knowledge on the topic about Islam and homosexuality is that it is haram and that we should find a balance between acknowledging it is haram but avoiding unjust treatment and prosecution of LGBT people. For that second goal we should start by avoiding hate speech. You don't know if a muslim that lives with this condition is suffering from depression, or having suicidal thoughts, and is reading your post in SC. Dunno, I recommend you to think in that hypothetical muslim gay whenever you are goong to talk or write about this subject. There are many ways in which things can be said, we don't need to act like bigots.

Edited by Bakir
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bakir said:

I haven't read this thread, was just reading a few posts out of curiosity, but I wanted to quote this one because I think it is very contradictory and disconnected from reality.

Being open about my sexuality has brought me apart from more than enough hatred (that you claim is not enough) some interesting conversations with many straight men and women that are genuinely curious about this topic. The thing is, why the heck they ask me? Because something evidently doesn't work in the discourse they hear. And the discourse doesn't work because it is usually very biased, disconnected from reality, from the current discourses in the LGBT and queer theories, and is plagued of hate speech. Thus, this discourse fails.

Islam isn't about hating non-conforming ideologies, but about debating them with a higher reasoning and with lucid conclusions.

I really wish for this massive apostasy you refer to if it is in fact a reaction against hateful bigotry.

This is a socially relevant topic, if someone wants to discuss it, like it or not, that person will have to study the topic properly. Otherwise, the most honest response will be "homosexuality is haram". If you find it not enough, go study the topic and elaborate a discussion on something more respectable than empty hatred. Don't want to lose your time on reading about queer theories? Nice. Most scholars neither (and the few I have asked them about the topic, acknowledged it, they can't care less, and that's ok too).

As a side note, I have said this tons of times, but this is a very complex topic and we should avoid being stupid giving simplistic answers or doing unnecessary questions. We can all agree on "homosexuality is haram". From there, there aren't many islamic resources (from hadith or sunna) that speak about this topic specifically. If we want to tall about it, we have to understand this condition, the realities LGBT people live in the world and in the Muslim countries, and with a proper hollistic view, speak.

All my experience and knowledge on the topic about Islam and homosexuality is that it is haram and that we should find a balance between acknowledging it is haram but avoiding unjust treatment and prosecution of LGBT people. For that second goal we should start by avoiding hate speech. You don't know if a muslim that lives with this condition is suffering from depression, or having suicidal thoughts, and is reading your post in SC. Dunno, I recommend you to think in that hypothetical muslim gay whenever you are goong to talk or write about this subject. There are many ways in which things can be said, we don't need to act like bigots.

No true Muslim would ever wish for mass apostasy. It is a matter of salvation from Hell, so how could you wish that people end up burning in Hell?

Like it or not, Islam preaches what you call "hateful bigotry" toward sections of humanity that are deserving of it.

I not only object to the LGBTQ for religious and ethical reasons, but for socio-political ones too. As I've already mentioned, the LGBTQ community did not exist prior to the 20th century as an actual community. It was artificially created for a very nefarious purpose by the powers that be. Neither was the LGBTQ ever an identity prior to the mid 20th century. An identity and community that is an acronym is truly without precedent.

Politically, the LGBTQ community is at loggerheads with the Muslim community in the West, especially in Europe, where they are often a prominent component of the far-Right, anti-Muslim lobby. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
5 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

Politically, the LGBTQ community is at loggerheads with the Muslim community in the West, especially in Europe, where they are often a prominent component of the far-Right, anti-Muslim lobby. 

Actually they're part of the left wing, not right. Either way it doesn't matter, because we should disassociate ourselves from their propoganda. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
37 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Actually they're part of the left wing, not right. Either way it doesn't matter, because we should disassociate ourselves from their propoganda. 

Well that dépend in reality. There are now countries where farrights justify their hatred toward Muslims because of their hostilities toward homosexuals (it is the case in Netherlands). 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...