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In the Name of God بسم الله

Mens Abaya/Thobe Islamic or Cultural?

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Okay so what is the view of the men’s dress (thobes) both from Sunni/Shia. 
 

Some people say it’s sunnah but priests and some Jews wear some sort of thobe how is it sunnah then? 
 

is it more cultural and there’s no real Islamic clothing?  I’m not sure. What’s your view?

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Guest Molana Laddan

It’s a great cultural misunderstanding that floor length thobe is the default attire of Arab men of the old. One can’t ride horses and camels in a thobe. 
 

Old traditional Arab men attire has been a Plain long shirt and a soft fabric trouser. Those of authority or piety used to put a piece of cloth on their shoulders to make their middle part of the body obscure, that propped call abaya now. 
 

so there you go. 

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On 7/26/2020 at 3:14 PM, Guest Molana Laddan said:

It’s a great cultural misunderstanding that floor length thobe is the default attire of Arab men of the old. One can’t ride horses and camels in a thobe. 
 

Old traditional Arab men attire has been a Plain long shirt and a soft fabric trouser. Those of authority or piety used to put a piece of cloth on their shoulders to make their middle part of the body obscure, that propped call abaya now. 
 

so there you go. 

I always thought that. Back then it was the traditional clothes of the arabs so why do many many of our brothers from ahlul sunnah make it as if you have to and it’s tradition/Islamic 

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On 7/25/2020 at 9:50 PM, Ali2196 said:

Okay so what is the view of the men’s dress (thobes) both from Sunni/Shia. 
 

Some people say it’s sunnah but priests and some Jews wear some sort of thobe how is it sunnah then? 
 

is it more cultural and there’s no real Islamic clothing?  I’m not sure. What’s your view?

Dress is ultimately functional. Islamic lifestyle is centered around worship, the Salat, which means lots of bowing, prostrating, and sitting on the floor. This is why clothing that is associated with Muslims before European colonialism is loose fitting and flowing, to facilitate our lifestyle of worship. It makes no sense wearing a three piece European business suit, or tight fitting pants and other restrictive kind of clothes for a Muslim that is observant. The European style of clothing is meant for a lifestyle that does not include a lot of bowing and prostrating, and for people to sit on chairs and not on the ground. Muslims adapted European clothing en masse as a consequence of European colonialism. This is why our traditional Ulama, during the height of European colonialism, strongly opposed the modernist camp, and one of the issues of contention was the matter of dress. At present, this heated controversy has cooled down considerably because the modernist camp won in the sense that the vast majority of Muslims sided with them in the issue of dress, and the traditionalist camp is on the defensive.

As for Jews and Christian priests wearing these type of clothing, it is because they have inherited this tradition from the ancient Prophets عليهم السلام whom we also acknowledge and consider a source of guidance, though subject to the guidance and Shari'ah of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم.

Therefore, my position is there is such a thing as Islamic clothing, it is the clothing which the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم preferred, such as the Qamis, a long garment with full sleeves that comes down somewhere between under the knees and above the ankles. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم also loved the Hibarah, a striped Yemeni shawl like the one displayed in my profile picture. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم encouraged us to wear white clothing.

Clothing that is traditional to Muslims and visibly identifies them may also be considered Islamic clothing from a certain angle. But as far as a specific uniform that Muslims are required to wear, there is no such thing. Neither is it haram to wear European clothing if your intention isn't to imitate them and to disassociate from Islamic identity. However, it is haram to wear clothing and articles that are specific to a non-Muslim religious group, like the saffron robes of Hindus and Buddhists, or the Christian ministerial collar, or Jewish phylacteries. It is also haram to wear clothing that reveals the awrah and is immodest, like shorts that uncover the knees or thighs. In our madhhab, it is also forbidden for men to expose the navel.

In summary, I think our Religion does teach men to dress in such a way that conforms to the Prophets' Sunnah and visibly distinguishes us from non-Muslims. Specific details and style is discretionary, but it is encouraged to match the description of the Prophet's dress as much as possible.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

Dress is ultimately functional. Islamic lifestyle is centered around worship, the Salat, which means lots of bowing, prostrating, and sitting on the floor. This is why clothing that is associated with Muslims before European colonialism is loose fitting and flowing, to facilitate our lifestyle of worship. It makes no sense wearing a three piece European business suit, or tight fitting pants and other restrictive kind of clothes for a Muslim that is observant. The European style of clothing is meant for a lifestyle that does not include a lot of bowing and prostrating, and for people to sit on chairs and not on the ground. Muslims adapted European clothing en masse as a consequence of European colonialism. This is why our traditional Ulama, during the height of European colonialism, strongly opposed the modernist camp, and one of the issues of contention was the matter of dress. At present, this heated controversy has cooled down considerably because the modernist camp won in the sense that the vast majority of Muslims sided with them in the issue of dress, and the traditionalist camp is on the defensive.

As for Jews and Christian priests wearing these type of clothing, it is because they have inherited this tradition from the ancient Prophets عليهم السلام whom we also acknowledge and consider a source of guidance, though subject to the guidance and Shari'ah of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم.

Therefore, my position is there is such a thing as Islamic clothing, it is the clothing which the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم preferred, such as the Qamis, a long garment with full sleeves that comes down somewhere between under the knees and above the ankles. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم also loved the Hibarah, a striped Yemeni shawl like the one displayed in my profile picture. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم encouraged us to wear white clothing.

Clothing that is traditional to Muslims and visibly identifies them may also be considered Islamic clothing from a certain angle. But as far as a specific uniform that Muslims are required to wear, there is no such thing. Neither is it haram to wear European clothing if your intention isn't to imitate them and to disassociate from Islamic identity. However, it is haram to wear clothing and articles that are specific to a non-Muslim religious group, like the saffron robes of Hindus and Buddhists, or the Christian ministerial collar, or Jewish phylacteries. It is also haram to wear clothing that reveals the awrah and is immodest, like shorts that uncover the knees or thighs. In our madhhab, it is also forbidden for men to expose the navel.

In summary, I think our Religion does teach men to dress in such a way that conforms to the Prophets' Sunnah and visibly distinguishes us from non-Muslims. Specific details and style is discretionary, but it is encouraged to match the description of the Prophet's dress as much as possible.

Jazakallah khayran makes sense to me now 

Edited by Ali2196
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1 hour ago, Cherub786 said:

This is why clothing that is associated with Muslims before European colonialism is loose fitting and flowing, to facilitate our lifestyle of worship.

There was never such a thing as “Islamic clothing”. Muslim way of dressing depends on geographical region they’ve found themselves in. When you look at Orientalist paintings from 18 and 19 centuries, it’s pretty evident that the clothes worn by Muslims differed considerably based on the geography, personal preferences etc. What’s modest today, wouldn’t be considered such before. Even today for one woman wearing niqab may be a symbol of modesty, while another one may dress more Western. By the way, Muslims of the past used to be relatively tolerant of many aspects of religion that today wouldn’t be widely accepted. Ironically, it’s the Western Victorian era norms brought over by the Europeans that caused Muslims to shift into more conservative paradigm on things, and because Muslims desired “modernisation”, they started adapting and absorbing Western ways of thinking into Islam. 

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21 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

The mass adoption of the Western style of dress has made the world a duller place. Oftentimes, not in every case but in many, traditional clothing was a lot more elegant than what most of us wear today. Look at the Japanese for example, their old style of dressing was quite nice, now it is either European or a disaster, that is the case for a lot of the oriental countries such as Korea and China.

I personally think Middle Eastern clothing is the most beautiful and elegant. I myself come from Indo-Pak background, but I don't wear shelwar kameez. I wear Middle Eastern style thobes and I particularly love Yemeni shawls. I also love wearing a knitted skullcap, which is pretty much the universal marker of identity for a Muslim male.

I look at some Salafis in the mosques I pray at, many of them have extraordinary long beards (which is against the Sunnah) but are wearing European clothes (with their pants rolled up of course). It looks so foolish and twisted, like someone is confused as to what he is, Muslim or European. If you want to be a European gentleman why such a long beard and your pants rolled up? And if you want to look like a Muslim, why the pretense of European dress? Make up your mind!

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On 8/17/2020 at 3:34 PM, Cherub786 said:

 

Back to this topic here’s just one example of non Muslims wearing and looking like Muslims with that beard. Some don’t wear that belt thing and they don’t just wear black they wear white/grey have big beards to do how would we define them as non Muslim? What if I want to say Salams and they turn out not to be Muslim. Btw this is in Sydney Australia with a large Muslim and Arab/middle eastern population. 
 

as you mentioned before it was the (preceded clothing) if the prophets. So we muslims should strive to follow the sunnah of the prophets whatever day or year it is. Also I feel like that’s why we should trim short not shave our moustaches as not many non Muslims trim their moustaches so we can defines who’s who at least. 

5CF86384-44D9-45CC-8687-DE591F4DE7B0.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Some people are trying to revive the cape/cloak in the west, with mixed results.

The one on the left I guess is not bad, the one on right is like the kind of thing a guy would wear to pick up men.

Screenshot_20201003-092624_Chrome.jpg

Alot of Shia brothers wear the black abaya during Ashura but that’s it. Depending on what masjid you go to some wear abaya but many don’t. Point I was tryna make is the abaya Muslim thing it not? Or was it just a preferred clothing by our prophets. If so then we should actually wear abayas more often. Not haram but it would then be a sunnah/mustahab and the white ones look very nice 

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On 10/4/2020 at 12:11 AM, Ali2196 said:

Also what is the Muslim look if non Muslims and Muslims look alike. If I want to say Salams how can I define who’s Muslim or not. When I see a brother with a friend moe 99% I know they are Muslims and get a Salam back.

Trimmed moustache *

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6 minutes ago, Ali2196 said:

Trimmed moustache *

Plenty of non-Muslims trim their moustache. I fail to see how that will effectively distinguish a Muslim from a non-Muslim male. IMHO, the kufi or skullcap is the most practical means to visually distinguish a Muslim from a non-Muslim. Since most most Muslim men aren’t willing to go the whole nine yards by wearing a thobe, especially since it isn’t very practical in most workplaces, the very least they could do is wear a kufi. It’s not only easy, doesn’t get in the way, it also looks nice.

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On 7/31/2020 at 7:33 AM, Ali2196 said:

I always thought that. Back then it was the traditional clothes of the arabs so why do many many of our brothers from ahlul sunnah make it as if you have to and it’s tradition/Islamic 

Salam because they say Arab culture & customs & cloths is equal to Islam also they follow a hive mind procedure  to make every muslim like their clones (or zombies )that first step of it is forcing every muslim to wear anything  like them & acts like them like ISIS & Taliban that were forcing everyone  to wear their cloths & have long beards based on Pashtun  or Afghan clothes that ISIS forced it to Iraqis & made their clothing  & hair and beard style as terrorist  brand that caused problem for people that were using these cloths as their cultural inheritance  but they didn't  have any relation  to radicalism.

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I just wear the traditional style of men's clothing in the West. Usually jeans and a tshirt or when I'm working, longer Dickies-brand shorts that go past the knee and a shirt with the sleeves cut off. I usually top this off with some sort of headwear, whether it's a knitted skullcap (when I am at home more often than not) or a baseball cap when I'm out at work (provided I'm not wearing my hardhat).

I always understood the requirements for men's dress in Islam is that you wear what pertains to your culture but you maintain your modesty at the same time.

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