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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hagia Sophia conversion to Mosque

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As long as there is no grave(s) involved, Sahih Bukhari Book 8 et alia, any usable land is permissible for a masjid.

The pictures inside Hagia Sophia are covered during Jummah, so that adapts the building.

What Turkey, l think, should do is use the building as a masjid on Fridays, a synagogue on Saturdays (most of Turkey's 15k-20k Shepardics live there), a church on Sunday and a museum the other four days.

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2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

As long as there is no grave(s) involved, Sahih Bukhari Book 8 et alia, any usable land is permissible for a masjid.

The pictures inside Hagia Sophia are covered during Jummah, so that adapts the building.

What Turkey, l think, should do is use the building as a masjid on Fridays, a synagogue on Saturdays (most of Turkey's 15k-20k Shepardics live there), a church on Sunday and a museum the other four days.

Ok.

I have some questions That is why I asked.

The land should be Mabah for construction of mosque.

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13 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

Is conversion of Hagia Sophia to mosque permissible in Islam.

Mosque should be on Mabah land .Does it full fill this criteria.

Is salat allowed in Such mosque.

The fact that the Christian images need to be covered is interesting - It points to his 1000 years as a Christian place of worship.  The world heritage site is only still in existence because it was shored up bu Muslim architects https://hagiasophiaturkey.com/buttresses/ Thank you Mimar Sinan!

The interesting thing about the corona virus is that it has shown that I can worship God and pray in my home, on the hills, over zoom, as I drive my car. God is everywhere and this world is his place of worship - after all no building can contain him.

The word "church" originally meant gathering of people it only later came to mean a building.  A bit like Jemaat - a local community of believers.  So I'm not too concerned about Muslim worship in a 'church' building as long as this historic monument is still open to be enjoyed by everybody (apparently the entrance fee which was in place when it was a museum is being removed)

Maybe the question we should be discussing is what is true worship - does it have to happen in a building or in a certain way?

Jesus the Messiah is reported to have said (John chapter 4)

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.’

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Muslims perform first Friday prayer at Hagia Sophia mosque in 86 years

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AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): In Istanbul's Hagia Sophia, the first Friday prayer in 86 years was performed, as Anadolu reports.

"The first Friday prayer in 86 years was performed at the Hagia Sophia Mosque in Istanbul," the message says.

Thousands of Muslim believers gathered for prayer in the building and in the surrounding area. As part of the program, four imams offered prayers from the four minarets of the mosque.

Sura "Fatiha" and the first six verses of Surah "Bakara" from the Holy Quran were voiced personally by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the news agency reports.

https://en.abna24.com/news//muslims-perform-first-friday-prayer-at-hagia-sophia-mosque-in-86-years_1057580.html

Muslims perform first Friday prayer at Hagia Sophia mosque in 86 years 

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On 7/25/2020 at 5:30 PM, Dave follower of The Way said:

The interesting thing about the corona virus is that it has shown that I can worship God and pray in my home, on the hills, over zoom, as I drive my car. God is everywhere and this world is his place of worship - after all no building can contain him.

I think there's a difference between what people are permitted to do in difficult circumstances and what they should do if circumstances allow it.

The Ummayyad mosque in Damascus (which has been a place of worship since the Iron Age and was latterly a church) houses a shrine to John the Baptist which Christian pilgrims attend, it is also used as a mosque and tourists also go there to gawp. But I am not sure how happy Erdogan would be to take lessons from the Assads.

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On 7/26/2020 at 1:56 PM, Haji 2003 said:

I think there's a difference between what people are permitted to do in difficult circumstances and what they should do if circumstances allow it.

Does God only permit certain kinds of worship?

If my spirit is in tune with God's Spirit and my heart is true before Him, then worship becomes an overflow of thanks and gratefulness and is expressed in a daily walk with God.  I'm sure worship that God accespts if it is from a cleansed heart can be whenever, wherever and in whatever form.

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On 7/30/2020 at 6:16 PM, hasanhh said:

Yes.

Ayats 23:1-5; 31:13; 10:59; 6:112

lt is easy too. Join not, invent not, wudu, face Qibla.

I had a look at these verses

23 al-Mu'minun 1-11 gives helpful standards for a righteious life and an attitude of humility and regular prayers

Join not and invent not are helpful guidence to what we should believe - only believe in what God has revealed about himself in the scriptures.

I would still suggest that true worship, if it comes from a humble heart directed to the One True God, does not need a specified form in a specified place. 

God delights to see our worship and response to him in whatever form is appropriate.  I just posted a poem - that was worship, I painted a picture last night, that was worship.  I mowed the lawn this morning and in my heart I was singing and praying - that's worship too.  Tomorrow I will join with other believers in singing, prayer and mediation on God's word - that will be worship.

Anyone else want to share their experiences of worship?

 

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On 7/26/2020 at 2:30 AM, Dave follower of The Way said:

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father spiritually and in truth,

You are still obligated to face Jerusalem when praying (Mathew 5:17) . 

 

36 minutes ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I just posted a poem - that was worship

 

you have to worship Him the way He wants you to not how ever you want. 

On 7/26/2020 at 2:30 AM, Dave follower of The Way said:

God is spirit,

Nice misinterpretation by the lovers of Tertullian. 

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38 minutes ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

only believe in what God has revealed about himself in the scriptures

Not the trinity which does not exist which I have Cleary shown and the “scriptures” show Jesus has a God and denies being God. 

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2 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I would still suggest that true worship, if it comes from a humble heart directed to the One True God, does not need a specified form in a specified place. 

Correct, there is no specified place only a specified direction.

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On 8/8/2020 at 3:32 PM, THREE1THREE said:

you have to worship Him the way He wants you to not how ever you want. 

 

On 8/8/2020 at 5:23 PM, hasanhh said:

Correct, there is no specified place only a specified direction.

Thanks for your comments.  Responding to @THREE1THREE

How does God want us to worship him? 

I don't think God is like a CEO who says I will only give you a wage increase or improve your conditions if you come into my office and make your request standing on one leg!

When I think of God I see a God of infinite veriety who made, from his amazing creativity, millions of different animals and flowers and stars and ...  God made us with creativity too.  I'm sure he is so happy when we turn our eyes from earthly worries and cares and face him and worship.  However we do it.  He has given us creativity - let's be creative in our worship!  When we become filled with God's Spirit there is a freedom,  (2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom) one way this is expressed is in a release of worship and praise.

The Bible is full of discriptions of different ways people worshiped God.  The idea of a direction to face when worship is only refered to once or twice

Psalms 5:7 But as for me, I will come into Your house in the multitude of Your mercy; in fear of You I will worship toward Your holy temple.  

Also Daniel possibly prays facing Jerusalem

Daniel 6:10 "And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down on his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom since early days."  

In my oppinion if worship is not from an overflowing spirit of love, greatutude and awe but comes from a ridgid adherence to ritual it is missing a dimension which enriches us and pleases God.

I'm not saying ritual is wrong or bad, but there is so much more to worship which we will spend our whole life, and maybe eternity too, discovering!

May we all be on that journey!

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I don't think God is like a CEO who says I will only give you a wage increase or improve your conditions if you come into my office and make your request standing on one leg!

If you haven’t realised this life is not sunshine and rainbows  and it’s a test. God gave laws and practices for a reason. 1. To culture you. 2 to test you. You are Transgressing at this stage.  

Edited by THREE1THREE
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48 minutes ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Psalms 5:7 But as for me, I will come into Your house in the multitude of Your mercy; in fear of You I will worship toward Your holy temple.  

 

48 minutes ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Daniel 6:10 "And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down on his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom since early days

The Original prayer of Christ is very similar to that of the Muslims. Many passages in the OT show this and also In The homily. 

your opinion is nothing (Mathew 15 read it) 

I won’t be showing exactly how. 

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Quote

Paul William Roberts provides some modern-day corroboration of this possibility in his book Journey of the Magi.[61]


The Shrine of the Three Kings in Cologne Cathedral, Germany, c. 1200.
A Shrine of the Three Kings at Cologne Cathedral, according to tradition, contains the bones of the Three Wise Men. Reputedly they were first discovered by Saint Helena on her famous pilgrimage to Palestine and the Holy Lands. She took the remains to the church of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople; they were later moved to Milan (some sources say by the city's bishop, Eustorgius I[62]), before being sent to their current resting place by the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I in 1164. The Milanese celebrate their part in the tradition by holding a medieval costume parade every 6 January.

A version of the detailed elaboration familiar to us is laid out by the 14th-century cleric John of Hildesheim's Historia Trium Regum ("History of the Three Kings"). In accounting for the presence in Cologne of their mummified relics, he begins with the journey of Helena, the mother of Constantine I to Jerusalem, where she recovered the True Cross and other relics:


Journey of the Magi (top) and Adoration of the Magi (side) on a Limoges champlevé chasse, c. 1200 (Musée de Cluny, Paris)
Queen Helen… began to think greatly of the bodies of these three kings, and she arrayed herself, and accompanied by many attendants, went into the Land of Ind… after she had found the bodies of Melchior, Balthazar, and Gaspar, Queen Helen put them into one chest and ornamented it with great riches, and she brought them into Constantinople... and laid them in a church that is called Saint Sophia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi

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^^^^ @Ashvazdanghe    a good illustration of how people will believe anything no matter how illogical, historically challenged or stupid.

Personally, l have observed people doing this for the same reasons as for celebrating winning a championship --to act goofy, party and drink.

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I overall find it funny how after the conversion the mosque is called Hagia Sophia Grand Mosque, while Hagia Sophia - Holy Wisdom - is a concept in Christian theology absent in Islam. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

while Hagia Sophia - Holy Wisdom - is a concept in Christian theology absent in Islam. 

0ffhand, read the first five ayats of Sura 96 and you'll understand why.

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17 hours ago, hasanhh said:

0ffhand, read the first five ayats of Sura 96 and you'll understand why.

What this has to do with what I mentioned? The mosque is still named after the Cathedral’s original name, that’s derived straight from the Christian theology that we do not believe in. 

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@hasanhh @OrthodoxTruth

I had this idea

one of the Al Asma Ul Husna is

46 ٱلْحَكِيمُ AL-HAKEEM The All-Wise     If God is all wise and God is holy then his wisdom must be holy wisdom.
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On 8/15/2020 at 9:10 AM, hasanhh said:

0ffhand, read the first five ayats of Sura 96 and you'll understand why.

 

On 8/16/2020 at 2:23 AM, OrthodoxTruth said:

What this has to do with what I mentioned? The mosque is still named after the Cathedral’s original name, that’s derived straight from the Christian theology that we do not believe in. 

Those ayats tell you that Allah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). is your teacher. Not a secular idea.

4 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

@hasanhh @OrthodoxTruth

I had this idea

one of the Al Asma Ul Husna is

46 ٱلْحَكِيمُ AL-HAKEEM The All-Wise     If God is all wise and God is holy then his wisdom must be holy wisdom.

No. That is not any of the Revealed Attributes of Allah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).. So to contrive this is shirk.

As far as the Attribute al-Hakim is used, read Ayats 57:1-5; 66:2; 31:27 and 46:2.  The delineation of what hakim is is found there. 

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On 8/17/2020 at 4:11 PM, hasanhh said:

As far as the Attribute al-Hakim is used, read Ayats 57:1-5;

and on to ayet 6

What amazing verses to describe God.  These verses talk about God's great wisdom and power in creating and sustaining the universe.  It also talks about his wisdom and knowledge engaging with human beings.  I don't understand why saying God has Holy Wisdom is Shirk.

As a Follower of Jesus, I see these verses as ones I can respect in the way they exalt God above all.

I pray that we may all encounter this God as our friend, guide and saviour.

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3 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I pray that we may all encounter this God as our friend, guide and saviour.

He -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). decides on these. Not any of us.

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On 8/20/2020 at 7:09 PM, hasanhh said:

He -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). decides on these. Not any of us.

God in his mercy offers them to us - My dear friend they are there to recieve.

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