Some one compared me to a Christian for saying ya hussain and said i prayed to dead people!

[Lion of Shia]

salaam

someone heard what i did at ashura, and when i told i said ya hussain, and i got mixed reactions, some said i was going to hellforever!!, others said im a orthodox christian, others i apostated, i got laughed at by muslims(salafis and ikwani) and even non muslims, they all told me this!! I felt bad, i l knew i should have not let this get in my head but it did!!! I thought i was doomed!! i was paraniod!!!  They told me i cant come back and i apostated!!!! Any way they compared me to a christian saint and said i prayed to dead people!! What should i do?

[guest 2025]

Stay patient. They can only bother you in this life

[Mariam17]

Don’t worry brother, even if you feel alone whilst you were attacked by others you are adhering to the truth spoken by Allah in the Quran:

“And do not call those who were slain in Allah’s way as ‘dead.’ Rather they are living, but you are not aware.” (Surah Al-Baqarah, Ayah 154)

This video by Sayid Ammar Nakshawani brings up the claims that you were attacked with and explains them very articulately:

https://youtu.be/EJmjW3R_QwU

Insha’Allah this helped.

 

[Mariam17]

And remember (born a Sunni myself and recently reverted) Sunnis when praying in tashahhud say their salams to the Prophet  (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his family.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

2 hours ago, Lion of Shia said:

salaam

someone heard what i did at ashura, and when i told i said ya hussain, and i got mixed reactions, some said i was going to hellforever!!, others said im a orthodox christian, others i apostated, i got laughed at by muslims(salafis and ikwani) and even non muslims, they all told me this!! I felt bad, i l knew i should have not let this get in my head but it did!!! I thought i was doomed!! i was paraniod!!!  They told me i cant come back and i apostated!!!! Any way they compared me to a christian saint and said i prayed to dead people!! What should i do?

You should ignore these people, brother. I know it's easier said than done  but it's clear to me that these people make these statements to try to get a rise out of you and invalidate your beliefs. For the sake of your sanity and well-being, ignore them. @Lion of Shia

[Haydar Husayn]

I’m not really a fan of this stuff myself, but saying ‘Ya Husayn’ shouldn’t in itself be problematic (depending on your intention I suppose). If you start saying ‘Ya Husayn help me’, then that would be an issue for some people.

[guest 2025]

25 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

You should ignore these people, brother. I know it's easier said than done  but it's clear to me that these people make these statements to try to get a rise out of you and invalidate your beliefs. For the sake of your sanity and well-being, ignore them. @Lion of Shia

Oh snap, I didn't realize that. Suddenly all the horror stories OP has shared are starting to make sense. They're idiots who push his buttons to get a laugh 

[Labbayka]

48 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I’m not really a fan of this stuff myself, but saying ‘Ya Husayn’ shouldn’t in itself be problematic (depending on your intention I suppose). If you start saying ‘Ya Husayn help me’, then that would be an issue for some people.

Do you think subconsciously people know Allah is behind this, including al-Husayn AS, I used to be on the same boat as you but I’ve accepted it as a genuine expression for Imam Al Husayn to intercede subconsciously from Allah if that makes sense?

Edited July 24, 2020 by Labbayka

[Haydar Husayn]

1 minute ago, Labbayka said:

Do you think subconsciously people know Allah is behind this, including al-Husayn AS?

It depends what you mean. Some people say it and apparently intend that they want Husayn (عليه السلام) to ask Allah to help them, but others say it with the intention that they want Husayn (عليه السلام) to help directly, but with the understanding that of course his powers come from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

I can't say I like either approach, but the second is certainly worse than the first.

[Mariam17]

59 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

It depends what you mean. Some people say it and apparently intend that they want Husayn (عليه السلام) to ask Allah to help them, but others say it with the intention that they want Husayn (عليه السلام) to help directly, but with the understanding that of course his powers come from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

I can't say I like either approach, but the second is certainly worse than the first.

As a revert I’m still adjusting to this concept because within the Sunni fold of Islam any supplication other than to Allah is put subconsciously in the same category as polytheism. Even though that isn’t my intention, due to my previous upbringing I always have that fear in my head. I usually stick with the first approach.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

3 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Oh snap, I didn't realize that. Suddenly all the horror stories OP has shared are starting to make sense. They're idiots who push his buttons to get a laugh 

Yeah, I have been reminding the brother to ignore these people over the years.  It seems to me that they aren't doing it to simply get a rise out of him, but possibly to catch him in a compromising statement and use that to ostracize him from his community. They probably also believe that he's because also mentally ill, that he is easy to manipulate and pressure into stop being Shia. They are playing a very dangerous game with his mind. 

[Haydar Husayn]

46 minutes ago, Mariam17 said:

As a revert I’m still adjusting to this concept because within the Sunni fold of Islam any supplication other than to Allah is put subconsciously in the same category as polytheism. Even though that isn’t my intention, due to my previous upbringing I always have that fear in my head. I usually stick with the first approach.

I wouldn’t feel like you need to change anything. Just be aware that many Shias do one of the two things I mentioned, and are extremely sensitive about this topic.

Personally, I prefer to stick to a cautious approach, and take at face value what Allah says in the Qur’an. So I only address my duas to Allah. But this topic has been extensively debated on this forum. If you want to see some of the various arguments for and against, then you can check out a couple of my threads. There are many more, and to be honest I think there is a lot more that could be said on this topic, but it should give you a flavour of the kinds of arguments used in these debates:

 

[313_Waiter]

On 7/25/2020 at 6:35 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

It depends what you mean. Some people say it and apparently intend that they want Husayn (عليه السلام) to ask Allah to help them, but others say it with the intention that they want Husayn (عليه السلام) to help directly, but with the understanding that of course his powers come from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

I can't say I like either approach, but the second is certainly worse than the first.

Aren’t both of these allowed in our school of thought?
From what I know it’s only if we ask Hussain ((عليه السلام)) for help independently of Allah that it would be shirk?

[Abu_Zahra]

14 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

Aren’t both of these allowed in our school of thought?
From what I know it’s only if we ask Hussain ((عليه السلام)) for help independently of Allah that it would be shirk?

None of them really seem to have a basis in our teachings. Rather they seem to be practices that somehow or the other became popular. It probably wouldn't be shirk (except what you described) because it doesn't really fit the definition of shirk, but it isn't something that we have received from the Qur'an or the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) either. 

 

[Haydar Husayn]

1 hour ago, Ejaz said:

Aren’t both of these allowed in our school of thought?
From what I know it’s only if we ask Hussain ((عليه السلام)) for help independently of Allah that it would be shirk?

Depends on how you define 'our school of thought'. If you mean what is allowed (and practiced) by the scholars, then sure. But the problem is this concept of calling out to other than Allah can't be found anywhere in the Qur'an or the hadiths. Instead, we find exactly the opposite. People try to make it all hinge on intention, but again I don't know where this comes from. You would think that if it was so important to go through others in order to ask Allah for your needs, that there would have been at least one example in the Qur'an, which is after all not short of duas. Or why didn't Allah simply explain to the pagan Arabs that the mistake they were making wasn't seeking intercession by calling out to other than Allah, it was that they were calling out to the wrong people, or that they had the wrong intention when doing so. But instead Allah just says over and over don't call out to other than Him, only rely on Him, etc. You have to ask yourself when Allah is choosing to give such an unambiguous message, when in reality it's not supposed to be like that at all. Personally, I'm not a fan of mental gymnastics, so I'll just stick to what is clear and obvious. At least on the Day of Judgement I'll be able to point to the Qur'an and say I followed what was in there, rather than have to play the 'my scholar told me' card.

[Haydar Husayn]

1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

None of them really seem to have a basis in our teachings. Rather they seem to be practices that somehow or the other became popular. It probably wouldn't be shirk (except what you described) because it doesn't really fit the definition of shirk, but it isn't something that we have received from the Qur'an or the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) either. 

Whether or not calling out to other than Allah and asking them for your needs is shirk is debatable, but there isn't much doubt that it has the appearance of shirk, which is bad enough.

[Haydar Husayn]

By the way, when evaluating why scholars would allow or do something that seems dubious (to say the least), we shouldn’t forget the human factor in all of this. People don’t live in a vacuum. We all have our traditions and culture, and it’s not so easy to completely step outside of that. In every religion and every sect that are some beliefs that seem hard to justify from a purely detached reading of the texts, but which are nevertheless fiercely defended. There is no reason to believe Shias are any different.

Watch this clip of Sayyid Hadi Modarresi:

 

Or a similar one by his son:

 

Now, any rational person knows that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) addressing Ali (عليه السلام) by saying ‘Ya Ali’ is completely irrelevant to the discussion. I’m sure he said ‘Ya Aisha’ a fair few times as well. But the point here isn’t the logic of the argument, it’s the emotion. When at every stage of your life you’ve heard ‘Ya Ali’, and have been taught to ask him for your needs, by those you love and respect the most, you are obviously going to be invested in finding support for this position, no matter how slim it is.

 

[313_Waiter]

salam,
What about nade Ali and Dua tawassul?

[Haydar Husayn]

9 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

salam,
What about nade Ali and Dua tawassul?

For obvious reasons, I'm not a fan of either. But again, these duas are now so firmly ingrained in the Shia consciousness (with countless anecdotal 'miracles' attached) that it makes it very difficult to believe they aren't authentic. The evidence isn't good though:

 

 

But despite that, you have scholars that will outright claim it's authentic without any qualification whatsoever. Apparently if it sounds good, then it's authentic:

 

By the way, in this video, as usual when Shias want to prove dubious beliefs, they go to Sunni sources. Unfortunately for the Sayyid, the book he quoted was actually listing Shia fabrications. You would think this would be obvious, as you would have to be insane to think any actual Sunni book would contain anything like Nade Ali. But again as usual, people's critical faculties go out the window when they are desperate to support what they believe.

There are other funny aspects to this video, like how Sayyid Musawi consitently fails to actually translate what Nade Ali means, and instead goes off on a tangent about tawassul. And this is just flat out dishonest, because Nade Ali isn't so much about asking Allah through Imam Ali (a), it's about calling on Imam Ali (a) directly. But this is a consistent theme when it comes to Shia scholars in the West. They present a watered-down version of what they actually believe in terms of istighatha and wilayah al-takwiniya, and instead focus on defending tawassul (which is much easier to do, especially as Sunnis believe in this too).

"Call Ali, who is Manifestor of wonders, Thou shall surely find him helper in your difficulties, all grief and sorrow shall be removed."

 

Having said all this, I certainly wouldn't take my word for any of this, or that of anyone else on this forum. Of course, the fact that these practices have the backing of all these scholars is a weighty argument, but when looked at purely rationally, I just don't see where the evidence is. I would encourage everyone to think these things thought themselves and come to their own conclusions.