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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Asalamu Alaikum, 

Can someone explain to me what is happening with Hagia Sophia in Turkey and what our stance as Shia Muslims be on it? 
 

It seems that it has been converted into a mosque as it was a museum for some years now. Can someone explain this history to me and whether it was right or not to convert it back into a mosque? 
 

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Photos: Praying in front of Hagia Sophia in Istanbul after turning it into a mosque

https://en.abna24.com/news//photos-praying-in-front-of-hagia-sophia-in-istanbul-after-turning-it-into-a-mosque_1054261.html

July 11, 2020 - 11:42 AM News Code : 1054261 Source : ABNA24Link: 

 

AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): Following the conversion of Hagia Sophia from a museum to a mosque, hundreds of Istanbul residents offered Maghrib prayers in Hagia Sophia Square on Friday.

اقامه نماز مقابل ایاصوفیه استانبول در پی تبدیل آن به مسجد  اقامه نماز مقابل ایاصوفیه استانبول در پی تبدیل آن به مسجد اقامه نماز مقابل ایاصوفیه استانبول در پی تبدیل آن به مسجد

https://en.abna24.com/news//photos-praying-in-front-of-hagia-sophia-in-istanbul-after-turning-it-into-a-mosque_1054261.html

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2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Why would we have a problem with it? Better a masjid than a museum.

I guess the way that it was done. Wasn’t it an Orthodox Church in the beginning? I’m trying to understand if its first conversion as mosque was done lawfully. There’s been a lot of anger on the side of Christians after it has been converted back into a mosque when it was a museum for many years now. I don’t know, just trying to understand the situation. 

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14 minutes ago, KnowledgeSeeker36 said:

I guess the way that it was done. Wasn’t it an Orthodox Church in the beginning? I’m trying to understand if its first conversion as mosque was done lawfully. There’s been a lot of anger on the side of Christians after it has been converted back into a mosque when it was a museum for many years now. I don’t know, just trying to understand the situation. 

Yeah, although I haven't looked into it deeply, the lawfulness of the transformation from a church into a mosque seems questionable, but so was the transformation from a mosque into a museum, which is apparently what Turkish courts have decided.

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6 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

As Muslims we should most certainly condemn this unjust act orchestrated by Erdogan as it is a clear cut violation of the code in which Muslims, Jews, and Christians subscribe to, not only within a secular society, but within an Islamic State especially. This is extremely hypocritical on the part of those Muslims, as they have unjustly taken that museum which was rightfully for the Christians and now they will soon begin to preach about the values in which they did not exercise by usurping their place of worship/heritage. The Prophet destroyed Dirar mosque for preaching hypocrisy and protected Christian/Jewish places of worship.

I agree that there is a discussion to be had about how the church was turned into a masjid in the first place, but why was it then correct to turn it into a museum? As far as I’ve read visitors will still be allowed in, just like in many other masjids all over the world, so it’s not clear much will change other than the fact that prayers will now take place there. Why is that a bad thing?

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On 7/11/2020 at 5:49 PM, KnowledgeSeeker36 said:

Asalamu Alaikum, 

Can someone explain to me what is happening with Hagia Sophia in Turkey and what our stance as Shia Muslims be on it? 
 

It seems that it has been converted into a mosque as it was a museum for some years now. Can someone explain this history to me and whether it was right or not to convert it back into a mosque? 
 

Neo Ottoman imperialism 

I have no love for greeks either but the tyrant Erdogan is just flexing his ideological muscles 

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Yeah first it would be churches then your imambargahs

How so? This building was a mosque for around 500 years, before it was turned into a museum. It’s not like they’ve taken a functioning church and turned it into a mosque.

 

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14 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I wonder if those who are appalled would be had it been turned into a imambargha.

Your provocateur comment serves of no value to this thread, you have developed an intrinsic conflict most likely due to anecdotal experiences that have shaped how you view Islamic matters. Seeming to always tag an issue by linking it to some sort of Shia practices. Your insinuating only portrays the conflicts within yourself, I pray that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) aids you.

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3 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

 “Based on the same logic should we return Palestine, or by time accept the Zionist regime to keep occupying the land, destroy the mosque and build their temple?

Time doesn't change the fact that it's wrong or prevent us from taking a stance.  

We should  stand against Ottoman unjust occupation and oppression, let it be against Muslims or non-Muslims. 

The right thing is for the place to  return to it's original owners and stay as a Church even after 1000 yr. A place of worship shouldn't be forcefully changed from one religion to another.

We stand against all the ottoman invasions and the crimes they committed. 

After 500 years would we accept for Masjid Al Aqsa to become a temple? Certainly not! Even after 1000 years we will still stand against the Zionist regime in Palestine and refuse to accept it. 

The same argument can be used in regards to this Church.

From the first barbaric Ottoman turban to this Turkish govmerent, they didn't bring except shame to Islam and there's no place to show support to them.” 

—Nami_Farhat (Instagram)

This is completely incoherent. By the very logic used here we should in fact leave Palestine to the Jews. They were there before the Muslims!

And what about the Temple Mount, which is built on a Jewish sacred site. Should that be returned?

In fact, there are probably thousands of mosques all over the world that are either converted places of worship of other religions or are built on the sites of those places of worship that had been destroyed. Should they all be returned?

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2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

This is completely incoherent. By the very logic used here we should in fact leave Palestine to the Jews. They were there before the Muslims!

And what about the Temple Mount, which is built on a Jewish sacred site. Should that be returned?

In fact, there are probably thousands of mosques all over the world that are either converted places of worship of other religions or are built on the sites of those places of worship that had been destroyed. Should they all be returned?

The Jews were there before the Muslims, not the Zionists.

I believe that such reasoning treads on the ground of tu quoque fallacy.

Any established place of worship that has not fallen forfeit, due to war, conspiracy, etc should most certainly not be transgressed upon.

Yes, any mosque that was built after wrongful transgression or usurpation should be returned most definitely, as such mosques are hypocritical.

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1 minute ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

The Jews were there before the Muslims, not the Zionists.

What do you mean by this? Do you not think Zionists are Jews?

Even if we make this distinction, do you believe that Palestine should be returned to the (real) Jews?

1 minute ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

I believe that such reasoning treads on the ground of tu quoque fallacy.

Any established place of worship that has not fallen forfeit, due to war, conspiracy, etc should most certainly not be transgressed upon.

Yes, any mosque that was built after wrongful transgression or usurpation should be returned most definitely, as such mosques are hypocritical.

I would imagine this would be a very minority position among Muslims, but at least it’s consistent.

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1 minute ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Even if we make this distinction, do you believe that Palestine should be returned to the (real) Jews?

The real Jews followed Jesus and then Muhammad (saww) as per consistency with scripture.

2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I would imagine this would be a very minority position among Muslims, but at least it’s consistent.

Allah knows best, may Allah hasten the reappearance of our Imam so he may set things straight.

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9 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Your provocateur comment serves of no value to this thread, you have developed an intrinsic conflict most likely due to anecdotal experiences that have shaped how you view Islamic matters. Seeming to always tag an issue by linking it to some sort of Shia practices. Your insinuating only portrays the conflicts within yourself, I pray that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) aids you.

No I find the hypocrisy simply amusing. I see Shias support Assad, but they were against Saddam. When pressed on the reason, they say Assad protected the shrines dear to Shias. Similarly, I wonder if this logic would translate to the Hagia Sophia issue. If Hagia Sophia was going to be used for azadari, would the same people opposing the transition to a mosque still oppose?

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1 hour ago, 786:) said:

No I find the hypocrisy simply amusing. I see Shias support Assad, but they were against Saddam. When pressed on the reason, they say Assad protected the shrines dear to Shias. Similarly, I wonder if this logic would translate to the Hagia Sophia issue. If Hagia Sophia was going to be used for azadari, would the same people opposing the transition to a mosque still oppose?

You are right! 

My personal interest is that I dont want no ottoman  turks winning at any cost 

Otherwise I won't waste any tears for a greek church , greeks when they had power brutalized their neighbors too

Irony is most "Turks " today are not like the true turks of central asia and probably genetically more common with eastern European and Greeks. And anatolia is not the homeland of Turks anyway they were brutal  colonial masters.

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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5 hours ago, 786:) said:

No I find the hypocrisy simply amusing. I see Shias support Assad, but they were against Saddam. When pressed on the reason, they say Assad protected the shrines dear to Shias. Similarly, I wonder if this logic would translate to the Hagia Sophia issue. If Hagia Sophia was going to be used for azadari, would the same people opposing the transition to a mosque still oppose?

Are there holy figures buried here from the Christian religion? If not I don't see it as a good comparison. 

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18 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

What do you mean by this? Do you not think Zionists are Jews?

Even if we make this distinction, do you believe that Palestine should be returned to the (real) Jews?

Zionists are mostly european - or ethiopian (who are also discriminated against by the europeans) - some "middle eastern" types.  They came from outside of Palestine and usurped the land of Palestinians. The Palestinians - i.e. the original inhabitants of the land are inclusive of Muslims Christians and Jews (yes there are Jewish Palestinians also). The Palestinians for the most part converted and became Muslims ... those that didn't are Christians and Jews - and yes have equal rights to that land. The people who do not have any right to that land are Zionists who came to land after WWII and practiced ethnoracism and forced out the original inhabitants. 

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On 7/14/2020 at 5:57 AM, Mohammad313Ali said:

Based on the same logic should we return Palestine, or by time accept the Zionist regime to keep occupying the land, destroy the mosque and build their temple?

Time doesn't change the fact that it's wrong or prevent us from taking a stance.  

We should  stand against Ottoman unjust occupation and oppression, let it be against Muslims or non-Muslims. 

Salam new ottomans had this dream of turning again Hagia -Sophia to a mosque then claiming  themselves as leaders of muslim  world & taking back Jerusalem   

15 hours ago, iCenozoic said:

Anyway, it just seems like a very nationalist move. Done for political reasons and not truly for religious purposes, peace or in good faith.

hi , I find it interesting that the new ottomans  fans are following  plan of a Turkish sci-fi novel that is released Amazon  in January 1, 2006 as a bestselling  book in Turkey in name of Mehdix 

https://www.amazon.com/Mehdix-Turgay-Guler/dp/6055878712

Quote

Mehdix - Probability Theory - No Coming Back Turgay Güler
" MEHDIX is not just a dream, MEHDIX is a reality that they fear and therefore deny it. Humanity is waiting for Him. 
History 2020 
The beginning of the end for the world. "

Author:  Turgay Güler

Something is happening to the world ...
America, the ruler of the world, is unable to take care of itself ...
Developing policies to manage the whole world, Israel is making plans and successfully implementing its biggest ally America.

After a massive artificial earthquake, America is destroyed and Jewish merchants heading to Europe are holding the economy of this country.

Turks are reopening Hagia Sophia to worship as if this is not enough.

A Turkish Pasha takes over the Chest of the Covenant and the Scepter of the Prophet Moses, which the Christian and Jewish world is chasing, and has been walking step by step to become the ruler of the whole world since then.

Israel, which sets out to be the judge of the world, falls into wells that it has dug by itself, and Pasha, who is a great compliment by the Islamic countries, gradually turns into Mehdix Pasha.
The Third World War begins ...  www.kitaptakipcileri.com
As a special and "chosen" person, Mehdix Pasha, who stands out from all the dangers directed to himself and who is crushed, despised, and mocked with his holy values, is doing his part by equipping and equipping as the savior the world has expected.
I www.kitaptakipcileri.co
"Mehdix" is a reflection of the author's dream of the future. The information in the book is completely fictional. The author, who emphasizes the possibilities in the world of the future, tries to read the world politics, which has been going on for half a century, from the back of the mirror and read it in reverse. I www.kitaptakipcileri.co
The book tries to provide clues that the countries that are the superpowers of today's world may lose their activities after a while, that the countries that are currently developing or have not yet entered this process can become dominant in world politics by producing their own policies over time and how they can do this.
It is impossible to imagine what is not. Who can say that nothing imaginable will happen? 
Who can say that nothing imaginable will happen? 
Anything imaginable can happen one day. In this book, 'MEHDIX' was imagined. 
I www.kitaptakipcileri.co
But MEHDIX is not just a dream, it is a fact that they are so afraid of them. Humanity is waiting for Him. 
I www.kitaptakipcileri.co
History 2020 
The beginning of the end for the world. 
America and Israel pressed the button to plan "apocalypse" early. 
There is no turning back anymore. 
The world is on the verge of a terrible war and such a war will never happen after that. 
The so-called final prophecy is about to be realized. 
But Asa (Scepter) is in the hands of MEHDİX. 
This was not on any account… www.kitaptakipcileri.com

https://www.kitaptakipcileri.com/Mehdix-Olasilik-Teorisi-Artik-Geri-Donus-Yok-Turgay-Guler,PR-2119.html

by further information from a blond hair & blue eye Turk General that is similar to Ataturk will become the Mahdi by Sunni definition  of Mahdi that a sinful  person by sudden repentance  in one night will become Mahdi that by receiving orders from Internet & his super computer he will inform about Dajjal that he must kills him that the Turk general as new Mahdi or Mehdix belives that Dajjal is massive governmental system  that by instructions from his computer he will find Scepter of Muses in Antakya ( Antioch ) of Turkey &  European  countries  in 2020 will ask from him that he must turns back Hagia Sophia into church  that in opposition  of it in 19 August 2020 he will turn Hagia Sophia  into a mosque that this will be start of war of Turkey with America Israel & European countries  that they will try to siege the Istanbul through  sea that Iran & Pakistan will support Turkey against  Israel with their Nukes :grin: then Mehdix  will arrest betrayers in Turkey  government  then   the Mehdix will cause a massive artificial earthquake in  America Scepter of Muses   that this will lead to fleding of all jews to Europe  & Israel then zionist will destroy  Al Aqsa mosque in revenge then Mehdix will receive "Mullah-3" nukes from Iran :grin:& few nukes from Pakistan then POP will ask exiling zionists from Palestine  because  of destroying  Al Aqsa mosque then Mehdix will conquer  Palestine & destroys  all of high tech devices of zionists by relasing a virus through his computer to all Zionists computers then forces them to rebuild the  Al Aqsa mosque then exiles whole of them to Europe through sea & he will return Palestine to Palestinians then he will return to Turkey that by receiving  new orders from his (super) computer he will go to new mission for saving the world.

https://www.mouood.org/mahdaviat/itemlist/category/15-mahdaviat-and-islamic-world-news.html?start=6900

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antakya

Mehdix by Turgay Gülerimage.jpeg.e614ee70b4782851cfff75bb32f23402.jpeg

image.jpeg.ef0c4452abdf69d1ae702cc357df9b02.jpeg Why Erdoğan is like Ataturk   

https://www.politico.eu/article/presdient-erdogan-like-ataturk-turkey-democracy-nationalism/

170px-Ataturk_attends_a_university_class.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk

MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK - ENGLISH BIOGRAPHY - KozanBilgi.Net image.jpeg.88d045a60abf124c02a05e1e2d26f75c.jpeg

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Photos: Erdogan visits Hagia Sophia

https://en.abna24.com/news//photos-erdogan-visits-hagia-sophia_1056381.html

July 20, 2020 - 12:58 PM News Code : 1056381 Source : ABNA24Link: 

 

AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan paid a surprise visit to Hagia Sophia on Sunday just days before the first Muslim prayers are due to be held at the Istanbul landmark since it was reconverted to a mosque last week.

بازدید اردوغان از \  بازدید اردوغان از \  بازدید اردوغان از \

بازدید اردوغان از \

https://en.abna24.com/news//photos-erdogan-visits-hagia-sophia_1056381.html

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Video: Turkish Muslims hold first Eid prayers at Hagia Sophia mosque

https://en.abna24.com/news//video-turkish-muslims-hold-first-eid-prayers-at-hagia-sophia-mosque_1059171.html

August 1, 2020 - 8:33 AM News Code : 1059171 Source : ReutersLink:   

AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): Turkey’s Muslim worshippers attended Eid al-Adha prayers in Hagia Sophia on Friday for the first time after the historic building back into a mosque.

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On 7/13/2020 at 12:41 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

How so? This building was a mosque for around 500 years, before it was turned into a museum. It’s not like they’ve taken a functioning church and turned it into a mosque.

 

It was a church first, built by Justinian I  and as somebody else said Muhammad (sawas) didn't seek out churches and synagogues to convert to masjids. To the boldened part, that's exactly what the Ottomans did to the Hagia Sophia after defeating the Byzantines.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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19 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

a mere fantasy. But as Isa ((عليه السلام)) a nation will be against a nation, kingdom against a kingdom(possibly covenant..?) at the end of times 

Salam , It's a Turkish fantasy book but it's written based idea of current government Turkey about Imam Mahdi (aj) & rule of Turkey in his emerging based Turkey interpretation.

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7 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , It's a Turkish fantasy book but it's written based idea of current government Turkey about Imam Mahdi (aj) & rule of Turkey in his emerging based Turkey interpretation.

Yeah turkey is dajjal in this case. And it’s fantasy’s is just a mere fantasy. Sunni’s are falling for them. This fulfills the prophecy of the “muslims” stoning imam Mahdi ((عليه السلام)).

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