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In the Name of God بسم الله

Black Lives Matter [OFFICIAL]

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Note: This topic is of a sensitive nature dealing with current events, with a range of opinions presented, which some readers might find objectionable. Please refer to credible sources when assessing any factual claims presented. Racist language of any kind will not be tolerated, per ShiaChat guidelines.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

:hahaha: O.M.G.

A local high school is going to change its logo in response to Native-America criticism. Why?

The horror, the horrors

They call themselves Warriors

 

Q: What could possible be 'offensive' about that?

Generally speaking the Native Americans seem to have issues with native imagery being used for emblems and mascots and such, as it probably comes across as being disrespectful.

Edited by Ali_Hussain
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Patrisse Cullors, BLM Co-Founder BLM emerged from the Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO), and Cullors' mentor was Eric Mann, a long-time leftist activist. He was involved in several Commu

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

issues with native imagery being used for emblems and mascots

So?

Are they used in a demeaning way?

They do not have copyrights on Drums (one aspect: to communicate with the Great Spirit); depictions of Animal Tracks (spirit guides); solar symbols; the T-Bird (Thunder Bird --the Germans have the Donner Engle--T-Bird a cool car and my favorite symbol); or on the "holy coyote" (l haven't heard this said on film or in person for sixty years).

Example:  https://www.thoughtcatalog.com/daniella-urdinlaiz/2018/10/native-american-symbols/

ADDED COMMENT:  Think of this this way for a second. lf you had to choose a symbol or mascot for your school, will you choose something like "the Scumbags" ?  So how can people fantacize this was demeaning? And it is not similar to Chinese-Americans getting 'upset'/insulted when people in normal conversation ask them where they are from --like somehow Chinese aren't supposed to be in America.

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 12:44 AM, lover said:

First, why would this BLM movement follow Karl Marx' teachings? From their point of view Marx was a white guy. And no matter how good his arguments would sound, they are arguments of a white German.

Second, people tend to become something, like Marxist, fascist etc. As soon as they see the teachings of an ideology, they follow it blindly, without having ever read the pro and con arguments about it. They also don’t see the historical context. Even if all of arguments of Karl Marx were valid and true, which in fact they aren't, they were only true in his time and era, as he was no prophet or anything similar. That's why he didn't write about environment, AI etc., as he couldn't anticipate those developments. His main arguments were about the exploitation of humans following the Industrial Revolution. Marx created his assumptions mainly around the Industrial Revolution and its consequences.

In 1992 German philosopher Helmut Fleischer wrote in his essay about Marxists: "Marxists have changed their Marx so much so that it has become necessary to interpret him differently: rather in an historic context than as a doctrinaire-eccentric figure."

Other than that one can only say to those BLM members who are Muslim, that Islamic teachings suffice to be against racism.

Third, why didn't the BLM movement show any kind of solidarity with people who are not black and discriminated against? How about Mexican children who were separated from their parents in the USA. Okay, you can argument that people fight only for their own kind. So if there are Muslims in the BLM, why didn’t those people showed solidarity when Muslims from certain other countries were banned from entering the USA only because they were Muslim?

Even if Malcolm X has lived more than 50 years ago, he was way ahead of these wannabe activists today. At least he included "black, brown, red and yellow" people in his fight against racism. Unfortunately, nowadays people are self-centred and only show activism when their own kind is mistreated.

"We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,”

Patrisse Cullors, BLM Co-Founder

BLM emerged from the Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO), and Cullors' mentor was Eric Mann, a long-time leftist activist. He was involved in several Communist groups in the 70s and 80s. Mann is Jewish, and was from a family of committed Zionists.

He was later arrested on terrorism charges for trying to kill police officers, and did time in prison. 

The racial dimension to this whole thing is just a pretense, or inroad to the ultimate objective, which is the overthrow of capitalistic society and the revolution of the proletariat. The women who sits on the board of BLM's fundraising trust is a convicted terrorist as well. Behind closed-doors, and at rallies, BLM openly promotes violence and revolution. 

No Muslim, or anyone else, should be tricked into cooperating with these people, or supporting them. Demanding better policing, or better living conditions for black people is perfectly fine, but the BLM organization goes way beyond that. 

An analogy can be made for supporting the Palestinian people. There are ways to do that, and put pressure on Israel, without latching on to some violent group who has aims far beyond that (and the Palestinians are legitimately oppressed). 

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Posted (edited)

The Black Lives Matter movement is problematic for many reasons but the biggest one for me is the hypocrisy of opposition to racism and supremacy by imposing nauseating apologetics for what is also clearly racism and supremacy. 

But I like the dissenting views and passion in a thread on SC - reminds of the old days :)  

However, for some - there is some serious misunderstanding about the position of Jews in Europe.  Many were successful  - but that was because they had to do some fancy dodging of barbaric racism and truly systemic (as it was enshrined in the laws) barriers imposed by Christians and Muslims.  To parody Ilhan Omar's style:  "some people need some reading".   The persecution of Jews in Europe went on for nearly 2 millennia.  The Holocaust was just the icing on the cake.

Here is a good start to find links:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

 

 
Edited by Maryaam
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There seems to be a misunderstanding.

People seem to think that he's obliterating the BLM sign.

But actually he's challenging racist notions of white people being better than others at planning, organising and not managing to coat your clothes and phone in paint.

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l just watched NBC Early Today cover the "live bullets" in the Belarus riots, but never reports or mentions the flash-mob riots and looting in several US cities --probably because these cities all have Demoncratic 'leaders'.

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Posted (edited)

The race problem in the US is really fascinating. What's more fascinating is that people don't seem to grasp that they are being played and that it's not black and white issue (no pun intended). Yes many police officers are racist and thus tend to kill innocent black men. But when you look at the broader image police officers in the US tend to be more violent in general. Furthermore we can not dismiss the black on black crime. Some people say that it's not relevant but in contrary, it adds to the image that young black men are dangerous, especially with police officers who see these men in their day to day work. But then some (moronic) people are going to assume that it (black-on-black crime) is somehow because african-american people are not civilized and don't see that the socio-economic situations and environment that these young men grow up in are what makes them.

All in all it's a huge mess and people's reactions are just making it worse.

Cui Bono?

Edited by Berber-Shia
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Now that the General Election is getting close, Demoncratic mayors are beginning to 'crack down' on protesters.

Example: Portland, 0regon

Brief History:  https://www.katu.com/news/local/portland-police-provide-timeline-of-demonstrations

Arrests and Breakup:  https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/513209-riot-declared-as-protesters-officers-clash-in-portland

 

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9 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Not saying I agree with this, but it is interesting.

EgFv9NQWkAY6j0d?format=jpg&name=large

It is not interesting; it is pathetic.  It is also blatantly racist.   

Creating apologetics for the negative stereotyping of a particular ethnic group does not make it any less racist. By permitting racism towards one ethnic group - it makes it easier to be racist towards yet another group - it does not end with the particular target group; it can be easily expanded to include another.
 
There is just needed a slight change in political direction - if the slippery slope of permitted racism is firmly in place, it does not take much effort.  And using softer words to describe racist behaviour by non Whites, such as  ethnocentric", "culturally biased”, or ... <insert your favourite euphemism>… does not make the behaviour any less racist.
 
It is the acceptance of that harmful process (racist behaviour) that becomes embedded in society.  The process is politically correct, reinforced with censure if needed, and therefore condoned (1984?).  This process can then be adapted to vilify any group.  This kind of pseudo-intellectual trash only furthers the process of normalizing racism.  
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10 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Not saying I agree with this, but it is interesting.

EgFv9NQWkAY6j0d?format=jpg&name=large

Not sure where I fall on this scale. I'm a POC myself, if you consider Indo-Aryan North Indian to be non-White (technically we are "Whiter" than some Europeans). I mean I have straight black hair, which is more of an Aryan feature than curly hair that many Europeans have. 

Anyways, this scale didn't really describe my position on the racial problem (US/West context). Does drawing attention to significant social problems within the Black community make you subconsciously racist as this graph seems to suggest? I think you have to make a distinction when you criticize social trends within the Black community as not being intrinsic to their biology but because of social conditioning. When you make this distinction, you are not longer a "subconscious racist". There are significant social problems in every racial group, though to different degrees and different kinds of social problems. It cannot be denied that a ridiculously large proportion of African-Americans are born out of wedlock (but that is true for other racial groups like Whites and non-White Hispanics, though to a slightly lesser degree). Is that not an example of dysfunctional behavior within the Black community? Other issues include rate of criminal behavior, propensity toward violent crime, etc. Is criticism of this, like in Dinesh D'Souza's book The End of Racism an example of subconscious racism? I don't believe so. Constructive criticism of social trends within a particular racial community, from people that are outside that community, does not necessarily mean that the critics are subconscious racists. This graph is suggesting that such people are just a step behind overt racists who say things like Blacks are an inferior race, should be sent back to Africa, etc.

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Jacob Blake was shot 7 times point blank, in the back, while the cop had hold of his left wrist.

The riots (some of these people may be 'bused' in.

https://www.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/08/26/another-night-of-mayhem-engulfs-kenosha-shots-fired-between-rioters-and-armed-citizens-n2575080

 

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13 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Jacob Blake was shot 7 times point blank, in the back, while the cop had hold of his left wrist.

The riots (some of these people may be 'bused' in.

https://www.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/08/26/another-night-of-mayhem-engulfs-kenosha-shots-fired-between-rioters-and-armed-citizens-n2575080

According to reports I've read, he was a dangerous sex offender and was carrying a knife. I'm not saying the cops were justified in shooting him, but he isn't an innocent, little Angel either that deserves unconditional sympathy. Similar to the recent shooting in Louisiana, this is an example of someone resisting arrest. At any rate, I remain unconvinced that all these shootings happened because they were Black. I believe the same cops would react the same way if the suspect was of any other race. That they are disproportionately Black suggests what statistics confirm, that Blacks commit crime at a disproportionately higher rate than the general population.

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39 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

According to reports I've read, he was a dangerous sex offender and was carrying a knife.

Citation?

According to what l had to go look for, it is a charge for 3rd-degree sexual assault in a domestic dispute. No knife mentioned. l didn't see who is the  accuser.

Besides, the cops didn't know that. Only that he was black.

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On 8/23/2020 at 10:28 AM, Berber-Shia said:

The race problem in the US is really fascinating. What's more fascinating is that people don't seem to grasp that they are being played and that it's not black and white issue (no pun intended). Yes many police officers are racist and thus tend to kill innocent black men. But when you look at the broader image police officers in the US tend to be more violent in general. Furthermore we can not dismiss the black on black crime. Some people say that it's not relevant but in contrary, it adds to the image that young black men are dangerous, especially with police officers who see these men in their day to day work. But then some (moronic) people are going to assume that it (black-on-black crime) is somehow because african-american people are not civilized and don't see that the socio-economic situations and environment that these young men grow up in are what makes them.

All in all it's a huge mess and people's reactions are just making it worse.

Cui Bono?

Could not have said it better.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/22/2020 at 4:36 AM, Haji 2003 said:

 

Prisons in america are so horrible, I seen stories of people like "afterprisonshow" who served 7 years in an american prison and the descriptions are horrible, the guy had to eat toothpaste at one point to not die of hunger, the food in some prisons is not enough to feed you(you have to indulge in illegal activity to have the money to buy commissary) and he is nothing compared to the others I heard, his story and descriptions were tame.

There was this guy "Dani" who served 40 years in prison both federal and state and when he first entered prison one of the guards of the prison gave him a knife and told him "take this you need it to survive" and the guy said that he killed someone because he was disrespected(the reason for this, if he didn't do it he would die) and he saw many murders in prisons and the guards would do nothing.

This is just the tip of the ice berg, I could litterally talk about the "goon squad" and how in some prisons they would beat the living life out of prisoners, like dani for example who showed a video of it.

 

The list goes on, the prisons there especially the federal prisons were litterally made to get prisoners back into prison, Dani and all the prisonners I saw testified to this, they mentionned how the prisons would basically make them live that prison life so that when they go to the streets they start acting as if they are in prison and they get back to prison and the crazy thing, even guards in prison have said this, prisons in america are institutions that prey on prisoners being there to make money, it's like the pharma industry who are happy when people get sick because they can then sell their anti biotics.

 

Also the firefighter story is true, many american prisons make their inmates learn how to be firefigthers and pay them less I remeber a prisoner saying this.

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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9 hours ago, Cherub786 said:

According to reports I've read, he was a dangerous sex offender and was carrying a knife. I'm not saying the cops were justified in shooting him, but he isn't an innocent, little Angel either that deserves unconditional sympathy.

Police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner. Focusing on the individual who is attacked by the police rather than on the actual problem that police in the United States have been trained to be afraid of everyone, we can't fix it. 

All police departments in the US need to be systematically shut down, and restarted from scratch with people who aren't scared of their own shadows. 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner.

I never said they are. I'm talking about public sympathy and the ethical validity of the protests in his name.

The criminal record shows charges that include domestic abuse, disorderly conduct and 3rd-degree sexual assault. The disorderly conduct charge relates to his history of pulling guns on people in public places, and prior resisting of arrest. Here are the details of his sexual assault and trespassing case:

On May 3, 2020, Blake’s ex-girlfriend called the police after he had allegedly broken into her residence and stole her key to her vehicle, her vehicle, and her debit card before fleeing the scene. Blake’s ex-girlfriend, identified as “LNB” in the affidavit, said she had attended a party in Milwaukee. She rented a vehicle because she was not sure her car was mechanically capable of making the trip. LNB’s sister “Tamara” watched her three children while she was gone. She returned home around 4:00 am. 

After returning home, LNB took her son to her bedroom and laid down to go to sleep. LNB says she woke up around 6:00 am to Blake standing over her. [Edited. Explicit content not suitable for all readers.]

After Blake [Edited. Explicit content not suitable for all readers.] LNB she managed to collect herself and “ran the defendant out of the front door and then realized her vehicle was missing.” LNB then noticed her truck key and her Great Lakes debit card were missing. While waiting for officers to arrive, LNB checked her bank account and noticed two fraudulent ATM withdrawals made on May 3, 2020. Both withdrawals were for $500 at an unknown time.

Not a very nice person, to say the least. I'm not saying he deserved being shot, but does he deserve such public sympathy either?

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Consider the following:

Quote

In Texas, the state with the least disparity, 78.8% of the population, according to the latest Census Bureau figures, is white (this number includes Hispanic) with 12.8% being black. The remainder are Asian and other. The percentage of Texas citizens on the sex offense registry, however, shows 76.93% white and 22.59% black.

Looking at a state whose disparity rate falls somewhere in the middle, North Carolina, (1.81) the white population is 70.6%, and the black is 22.2%. The North Carolina Sexual Offense Registry reflects a make- up of 60.97% white and 36.96% black.

Minnesota’s numbers are staggering. While the white population of that state is 84.1%, white Minnesotans make up only 54.74% of those on the registry. The black population of Minnesota comprises only 6.8%, yet 38.6% of the state’s registry is black.  

Like I said before, there are serious social issues and trends within the African-American community that cannot be ignored if you want to address their disproportionately high incarceration rates and other "disparities" and "inequalities". One out of every ten Black men in the US is on the sex offender registry. What do you believe is the reason for this?

Edited by Cherub786
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1 hour ago, notme said:

All police departments in the US need to be systematically shut down, and restarted from scratch with people who aren't scared of their own shadows. 

Once again I strongly disagree. If the "protests" are any indication, shutting down of police departments will be an absolute nightmare, even for a very brief period. And considering the recent massacre perpetrated by a right-wing, White militiaman/terrorist, this is for the benefit of all sides and parties. Anarchy is worse than police brutality or injustice. Fundamental police reform is necessary, the process has already begun.

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9 minutes ago, Cherub786 said:

If the "protests" are any indication, shutting down of police departments will be an absolute nightmare

If it weren't for police brutality, there wouldn't have been any protests. And I'm not prepared to advocate for anarchy - yet. 

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Saturday the 29th night, Portland, Oregon

A "protester" was killed by (take your pick from the various news sources) a 1] a right winger, 2] a Trump supporter 3] another "protester" ...

in the 94th straight night of "peaceful protests".

There was a "caravan"/parade of "Trump 2020" vehicles in the area.

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Anti-racism protesters rally in Kenosha as Trump plans visit

Quote

ABNA: Last Sunday, Jacob Blake Jr. was shot by an officer in Kenosha sparking fresh racial tensions across the country. The black man was shot in the back seven times in front of three of his children.

At least one of the bullets went through his spinal cord, leaving him paralyzed from the waist down - possibly permanently, the lawyers said Tuesday.

On Saturday, Trump announced plans to visit the violence-rocked city next week as about 1,000 people joined a mile-long marched there, chanting “Black Lives Matter” and “No Justice, No Peace.”

“We are tired,” said Darius Johnson, 27, of Milwaukee. “There is no excuse for this kind of racism. It could have been any one of us, my brother, my sister. It needs to stop.”

Trump, who has taken a hardline stance against the protests, is slated to visit Kenosha on Tuesday to meet law enforcement officials and assess damage caused during demonstrations, according to a White House official.

When asked if the president would meet with the family of Blake, White House Spokesman Judd Deere said the schedule has not been fully ironed out yet.

“The thing I’d like to tell Mr. President is that Black Lives Matter members are not the thugs, not the looters,” said Clyde McLemore, founder of a BLM chapter just outside of Kenosha. “He’s blaming us, and that’s not the way it is.”

During protests on Tuesday, two demonstrators were killed by a white right-wing teenager.

https://en.abna24.com/news//anti-racism-protesters-rally-in-kenosha-as-trump-plans-visit_1066493.html

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If people can’t govern themselves as morally upright individuals and communities, then no amount of reform or law enforcement (or lack thereof) will make any difference.

Currently, all I see are agglutinations of atoms, each caring only about itself, pushing its fantasies on all the other selfish atoms. That’s America and the world today.

I think we should focus less on political “morality”—empty posturing/pontification—and more on personal morality. Only then can we purify ourselves and form integrity.

Edited by Northwest
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Correcting my own posts:

On 8/26/2020 at 7:18 AM, hasanhh said:

No knife mentioned.

The state Attorney General said in an interview that Blake admitted he had a knife which the police found on the floor of his car (l understood it was under the floor mat, but l maybe wrong in my impression.)

On 8/26/2020 at 6:19 AM, hasanhh said:

Jacob Blake was shot 7 times point blank, in the back, while the cop had hold of his left wrist..

l saw a clearer video and it showed the officer having hold of Blake's shirt.

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