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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Shi’a population is decreasing

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:
  1. Surah Nasr
  2. When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,
  3. And thou dost see the people enter Allah.s Religion in crowds,
  4. Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

_________________________
So people are not entering Shiaism in crowds are they?  If God mentions that this is something significant then who are you to say this is not a sign? 

 

So you actually think the VAST majority of Sunnis are extremists?  I actually thought you had common sense.

What a shame and disgrace you are to the Islamic Ummah as a whole (including both Shias and Sunnis).  

What are you on about?  Yes it is vast. Lol

 

Though I grant you that people embraced Islam during the time of Rasulallah in  crowds is accepted hence the revelation.

However, you are deceiving yourself believing the verse is implying the masses of people embracing Islam after demise of Rasulallah is the same in the era of the Prophet is not the case. Many faction came into existence after the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), for example: 

Khawriji Umayyads, Abbasid, Aaharis, Sunnism sub sects splintering of  Hanfi Malkis Hanabali Shafi  Wahhabism Sufism this should suffice for now

The above groups all had different ideological difference supported by extracts below:

Abu Hamid Ghazali in his book Manqul fi Ilmi'l-Usul says: "In fact Abu Hanifa distorted the religious code, made its way doubtful, changed its arrangement, and intermingled the laws in such a way that the code prescribed by the Holy Prophet was totally disfigured. One who does so deliberately and considers it lawful is an infidel. One who does it knowing it to be unlawful is a sinner."

Imam Ghazali says in his Mutahawwal, "There are many mistakes in Abu Hanifa's work. He had no knowledge of etymology, grammar, or hadith." He also writes, "Since he had no knowledge of hadith, he relied on his own conjecture.

The greatest fitnah in Baghdad was between Shaafi's and Hanbalis, because of which many people died. The Deputy of Baghdad tried to intervene, and the Shaafi representatives cried 'on what basis should we negotiate, and with who? A Resolution is when there is a difference between two parties over power. These people (Hanbalis) deem us kaffirs and we deem anyone that does not ascribe to our view to be a kaffir, hence peace between us is impossible". (Taken from Tabaqat al Janabal la bin Rajab Volume 1 page 20 - 21 & Wafay' at thu Ayan Volume 1 page 308).

Your reliance on the verse dose not support you're feeble argument you are intentionally and deliberately misleading.

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40 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Pretty amusing coming from someone who supports knifing children for the sake of Hussain.

Boko Haram, ISIS, Tatbiris, Zanjeeris are all part of the same cloth—aka extremist. Can’t condemn one and support the other. That my friend is hypocrisy.

This is just a emotional rant, have a good day.

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5 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Why?  Because it only applies to the Asbab An-Nuzul (Occassion of Revelation)?

No!  It was used a sign before and it will continuously be used as a sign for generations to come!  

5 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Secondly, even if this was the case, the Shias would have to believe that Sunnis can be considered proper Muslims, (which we don't believe).

Well it is the case and Shias better start believing that because their numbers are scanty in relation to Sunnis.  

5 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

As far as your other posts are concerned, your reasoning is based in a Sunni exaggeration of fate/destiny.

lol.  Every Muslim believes in fate and destiny?  Even Shias believe in it by their creed!  Exaggerated? How so?  We still believe in our freewill and responsibility.  But there are certain things that are just destined like the spread of Islam and how everyone will be Muslim and how the Mahdi will come.  Do these things contradict freewill in any of our creeds?  No!  So, by you saying that my statements are rooted in an “exaggerated” belief in God’s fate over and above our freewill, this is just a desperate attempt to defend yourself by attacking.  You have failure to say the least.  

5 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

As if God didn't give us the ability to follow the wrong path.

No.  That is not my position.  Each of us can follow the wrong path.  lol 

5 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Similarly, you act as if someone calling themself Muslim means they can't in reality be munafiq or kuffar. Also, you conflated piety with practicing.

Subhanallah.  So the vast majority of Sunnis are not munafiq and not pious, they just merely do everything for show?
 

wow!  Just look at what you are saying man!

The fact that the vast majority of Sunnis practice the Sunnah of the Prophet, fast during Ramamdhan, regularly attend 5 (FIVE TIMES) a day prayer, usually in congregation all around the world, this alone is a sign, even if all all of them were munafiq and doing it to show off, it is still a validation and a proof of the Prophet Muhammad (S).  Because the Prophet Muhammad (S) Is manifested in those acts.  Now, what about Shias?  Let us go to a Shia masjid in the US during the day and let us see how many attend the congregational prayer like Dhuhr and ASR. Not only are you most likely to not find a congregation but the masjid will most likely be locked!  They keep masjids open for Muharram programs and Ramamdhan programs and for Jummah programs but not for every day prayers.  Who is better? 

I go to a Sunni mosque, and the vast majority of Sunnis pray extra Sunnah prayers.  I go to Shia mosque during Muharram and Ramadhan and only the first row of elderly people (some of them) pray nawafil prayers. 
 

5 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is relative to what we believe proper Islam is. Sunnis and Shias believe each other to be heretics. Orthodoxy has to be proven through ideology, not numbers, that's fallacious.

Because of the vast majority of Muslims in the world are practicing Sunnis, it is stupid for. Shia to think they are heretics.  
 

it is like the Followers of the Nation of Islam who still think The vast majority of Muslims are all wrong and heretical.  Ridiculous.  

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5 hours ago, power said:

 

Though I grant you that people embraced Islam during the time of Rasulallah in  crowds is accepted hence the revelation.

However, you are deceiving yourself believing the verse is implying the masses of people embracing Islam after demise of Rasulallah is the same in the era of the Prophet is not the case. Many faction came into existence after the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), for example: 

Khawriji Umayyads, Abbasid, Aaharis, Sunnism sub sects splintering of  Hanfi Malkis Hanabali Shafi  Wahhabism Sufism this should suffice for now
 

You are very very funny.  After the demise of the Prophet (S) Islam spread like lightning.  You are just making me laugh because you put put the 4 madhabs against each other.  And then you put Sufism as another sect, like as if a Sufi can not belong to the 4 madhhabs.  And then you start quoting Al-Ghazali as if you can trusted in reading things in their proper context.  
 

Quote to me what an actual scholar(at least one of not several) on Al-Ghazali actually thinks about this.  And then we will discuss. A scholar on Al-ghazals is someone who concentrates on the works of Al-Ghazali.  Let me suggest you someone:  “Abdul Hakim Murad”.  Go ask him about this.  

 

Quote

The above groups all had different ideological difference supported by extracts below:

Abu Hamid Ghazali in his book Manqul fi Ilmi'l-Usul says: "In fact Abu Hanifa distorted the religious code, made its way doubtful, changed its arrangement, and intermingled the laws in such a way that the code prescribed by the Holy Prophet was totally disfigured. One who does so deliberately and considers it lawful is an infidel. One who does it knowing it to be unlawful is a sinner."

Imam Ghazali says in his Mutahawwal, "There are many mistakes in Abu Hanifa's work. He had no knowledge of etymology, grammar, or hadith." He also writes, "Since he had no knowledge of hadith, he relied on his own conjecture.

The greatest fitnah in Baghdad was between Shaafi's and Hanbalis, because of which many people died. The Deputy of Baghdad tried to intervene, and the Shaafi representatives cried 'on what basis should we negotiate, and with who? A Resolution is when there is a difference between two parties over power. These people (Hanbalis) deem us kaffirs and we deem anyone that does not ascribe to our view to be a kaffir, hence peace between us is impossible". (Taken from Tabaqat al Janabal la bin Rajab Volume 1 page 20 - 21 & Wafay' at thu Ayan Volume 1 page 308).

Your reliance on the verse dose not support you're feeble argument you are intentionally and deliberately misleading.

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Now, what about Shias?  Let us go to a Shia masjid in the US during the day and let us see how many attend the congregational prayer like Dhuhr and ASR. Not only are you most likely to not find a congregation but the masjid will most likely be locked!  They keep masjids open for Muharram programs and Ramamdhan programs and for Jummah programs but not for every day prayers.  Who is better? 

1. We should only focus on ahkam and not aqai'd? We're talking about heterodoxy (re: beliefs), not how well our communities are practicing the deen.

2. Congregational Prayer is not wajib

3. For Jummah: Shias usually open their doors right at the start of dhuhr, whereas Sunnis usually open up earlier, because for them Jummah is wajib [not wajib ikthiyarat] (and missing 3 in a row is considered kufr for Sunnis), so they end it right after dhuhr to better accommodate work/school schedules.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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54 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

1. We should only focus on ahkam and not aqai'd? We're talking about heterodoxy (re: beliefs), not how well our communities are practicing the deen.

2. Congregational Prayer is not wajib

3. For Jummah: Shias usually open their doors right at the start of dhuhr, whereas Sunnis usually open up earlier, because for them Jummah is wajib [not wajib ikthiyarat] (and missing 3 in a row is considered kufr for Sunnis), so they end it right after dhuhr to better accommodate work/school schedules.

I wasn’t talking about Jummah.  I was talking about daily congregation.  

basically, I am just noting signs.

of course belief is important.  These are the beliefs of your type of Shiasm, the majority of Muslim Ummah are not actually real Muslims.  




 

 

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On 7/10/2020 at 9:16 AM, starlight said:

Quality matters, not quantity.

Alhamdulillah!! 

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10 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

 And then you put Sufism as another sect, like as if a Sufi can not belong to the 4 madhhabs.

Yes that was a stupid move of him. Sufis are from 4 madhhabs, from Ja'fari, from literally anything. 

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On 7/10/2020 at 9:31 PM, eThErEaL said:

He is being rather silly.  

But on a more serious note, the fact that Sunni Islam has always been the majority is beyond a shadow of a doubt, a sign of its orthodoxy.  One can say, well, what about Christians? Most Christians (with all due respect) are not really religious in the true sense of the term.  Being a Christian in name is not really being a Christian (even Christians will tell you this).  Let us compare apples with apples.  We are comparing religious devout Shias and religious devout Sunnis.  Let us go further and compare not just devout and pious Shias and pious Sunnis, but urafa Shias and urafa Sunnis (and the latter by far exceed the former).  This is a sign of Sunni orthodoxy.  Am I implying that Shiaism is not orthodox? No! 

But Sunni Islam is the main road, or the highway (if you will), and Shia Islam is like the side-road (the alternative inner-off roads).  Sometimes the inner roads can be more effective for some individuals, but no matter what, the highway remains the highway!

 

nxyi6jfiska51.jpg

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On 7/10/2020 at 2:28 PM, starlight said:

There is nothing inherently wrong with being poor or growing up with a single parent.

True, but it has been statistically proven that such people are more vulnerable to drug abuse. Due to growing up poor, lack of stability and/or being exposed to drugs at an early age.  Poverty is not a virtue, it is a disadvantage.

 

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On 7/12/2020 at 11:44 PM, eThErEaL said:

You are very very funny.  After the demise of the Prophet (S) Islam spread like lightning.  You are just making me laugh because you put put the 4 madhabs against each other.  And then you put Sufism as another sect, like as if a Sufi can not belong to the 4 madhhabs.  And then you start quoting Al-Ghazali as if you can trusted in reading things in their proper context.  
 

Quote to me what an actual scholar(at least one of not several) on Al-Ghazali actually thinks about this.  And then we will discuss. A scholar on Al-ghazals is someone who concentrates on the works of Al-Ghazali.  Let me suggest you someone:  “Abdul Hakim Murad”.  Go ask him about this.  

 

 

Here is a analytical analysis of Iman Abu Hanifah weakness and deviousness cited by  prominent  Sunni scholars. 

 

Ibn Taymeeya cited the fact Imam Ahmad and Shafii condemned Abu Hanifas method of Salaat In Minhajj al Sunnah Imam of the Nasibis Ibn Taymiyya states:

The Shia Allamah Hilli cites the fact a Hanafi felt his Salaat was correct, he read it in front of a King who subsequently abandoned his madhab this proves that Hanafi madhabi is false. The King was Sultan Mahmood Ghuznawi who abandoned Hanafi Madhab due to the Hanafi Salaat. This is that Salaat that Shafii, Ahmad and Malik rejected it likewise Minhajj al Sunnah by Ibn Taymiyya taken from "Asthaghsa al Ahfaam" page 184

Hanafi Fatwa cursing those that oppose Abu Hanifa

Maulana Abdul Hai in his book Fatwa page 155, chapter Taqleed wal ijtihaad states: Ibne Maalik had stated that on matters of Fiqh the people adhere to Abu Hanifa - may Allah curse be on those that have mocked his Fatwas This encompasses the other three Imams who condemned Abu Hanifa.

Wahabies believe everyone else is kaafir In Kitab Shaamee page 339 Volume 3 (Printed Egypt): Abdul Wahabs followers left Najd and illegally occupied Makka and Madina. These Najdis claimed to follow Ibn Hanbal but in fact their aqeedah is that only they are Muslim whoever does not follow their aqeedah is kaafir. It was on the basis of this aqeedah that they considered it halaal to kill the Ulema of Ahlul Sunnah

 

Keep your head buried in the sand, and ignore the facts,  the divergence within Sunni'sm has existed Since the inception of Sunni'sm. Please continuing reading!

 

Ghazzali said that all should know that Abu Hanifa did not read the namaz read by Prophet Muhammad Taken from Asthaghsa al Ahfaam quoting Munkhaul, by Allamah Ghazzali Tusi al Iraani page 209 published Majmaa al Juraayn Ludhanan (1276 Hijri)

Imam Ghazzali declaration that Abu Hanifas Fatwas are Kufr

Ghazzali said whoever follows Isthazan he has done a bad act, it is essential we explain Isthazan. Abu Hanifas students said that it is that Fatwa where no logic exists, to have this ideaology is kufr

Taken from Asthaghsa al Ahfaam quoting Munkhaul, by Allamah Ghazzali Tusi al Iraani page 198 published Majmaa al Juraayn Ludhanan (1276 Hijri

Dissecting the Tahāfut Al-Falāsifah as the Critism of Ghazali Against the Muslim’s Philosopy Jurnal Farabi Volume 13 Nomor 1 Juni 2016 ISSN 1907-0993 E ISSN 2442-8264 The conservative clerics who read the works of "esoteric" al-Ghazali such as Iḥyā’, Mishkāt al-Anwār, dan Kīmiyā’-yi Saʽādat, argued that his thoughts in these books has deviated from tradition Ash'ariyyah and a lot depends on the thinking of Muslim philosophers like Ibn Sina and Ikhwān al-Ṣafā’, if it is not even the Zoroastrian teachings. a cleric from the origin of maghrib, Māzarī al-Dhakī. 32 active in the campaign against Al- Ghazālī. The opponents of al-Ghazālī initially delivered a petition to Sanjar that the Hujjat al-Islam: “Don’t have any conviction of Islam, otherwise, he embraced the belief of the philosophers and the heretics (Falasifah va mulḥidān) and he filled all his books with their words (va number-yi kitābhā- yi khvīsh bi-sukhun-i Ishan mamzūj kard), He confounded the kufr (Kufr) and the sleaze (abāṭil) with the secrets of revelation. He called the true light of God and this is the belief of the Zoroastrians (madhhab-i majus), which teach the light and the darkness.” 33 Because it failed in this endeavor, they took another path. Scrape his past, then they issued accusations that al-Ghazālī had issued insulting words against abu hanifah in his work that he wrote in his youth, al-Mankhūlmin Ta'līqā 'Ilm al-Usul. Sanjar was an adherent of the Hanafi, this accusation was really serious and expected to ignite the anger of the sultan. But, this attempt was unsuccessful. 34 In this atmosphere he wrote Fayṣal al-Tafriqah And his intellectual autobiography, al-Munqidh min al-Ḍalāl. In the latter book, he offended the attack of the conservative clerics: 32 About this figure, and the activities in

 

The weakness of Imam Abu Hanifah in Hadith

By admin

REFUTATION OF TAQLEED

DECEMBER 28, 2015
Taqleedcover-281x205.jpg

 Article of Abu Rumaysah on the weakness of Imam Abu Hanifah in Hadith

We are reluctant to discuss this topic with regards to this great Imaam, but since Saqqaaf has made the accusation we reply by saying: that fact that he was da`eef was the position of ibn al-Mubaarak, ath-Thawree, ibn Ma`een in one of two sayings from him, Ahmad, Muslim, Nasaa`ee, ibn Adee, ibn Sa`d, al-Uqailee, ibn Abee Haatim, ad-Daaruqutnee, al-Haakim, Abdul Haqq al-Ishbelee, adh-Dhahabee, Bukhaaree, ibn al-Jawzee, ibn Shaheen, [al-Qurtobee, ibn Abdul Barr] and others.

Saqqaaf cuts up the words of al-Albaanee, here are his full words, “its isnaad is da`eef, its narrators are trustworthy being the narrators of Bukhaaree, except Abu Haneefah for he, despite his excellence in fiqh, the Imaams have declared him weak for his poor memorisation, and I have mentioned the names of these Imaams in ‘ad-Da`eefah’…”

Al-Albaanee says in ad-Da`eefah [1/572] concerning an isnaad containing Abu Haneefah, “the narrators of this isnaad are trustworthy and precise except Abu Haneefah who has been declared to be weak due to his poor memorisation by Bukhaaree, Muslim, an-Nasaa`ee, ibn Adee and other Imaams of Hadeeth. This is why ibn Hajr in ‘at-Taqreeb’ does not go beyond describing him as, ‘the famous faqeeh’.”

He says in ad-Da`eefah [1/662+], “I will mention here the texts from the Imaams, from those that are authentic to them, so that the reader may be upon sure knowledge concerning this and not think that this is some new ijtihaad from me for all that is done here is to follow the People of Knowledge and specialists in the field. Allaah the Mighty and Magnificent says, ‘ask the people of knowledge of you do not know’ and He says, ‘ask about Him from any who are acquainted.’

Imaam Bukhaaree said in ‘Taareekh al-Kabeer’ [4/2/81], “they have remained silent about him.”

Al-Haafidh ibn Katheer says in ‘Mukhatasar Uloom al-Hadeeth’ [pg. 118], “if al-Bukhaaree says about a a man, ‘they have remained silent about him’ or ‘he has a problem’ then he is in the lowest and worst levels with him – but he is mild in his use of terms of criticism so know this.”

Al-Iraaqee said in his ‘Sharh al-Alfiyyah’, “al-Bukhaaree says this about those whose hadeeth is abandoned.” Refer to ‘ar-Raf` wa at-Takmeel’ [pg. 282-183]

Al-Marwazee says in ‘Masaa`il al-Imaam Ahmad’, “I asked: when is the hadeeth of a person abandoned? He replied: when he more often than not makes mistakes.”

So consider carefully since this saying of al-Bukhaaree is qualified criticism – contrary to what some people think.

Imaam Muslim says in ‘al-Kunaa wal Asmaa’ [q. 31/1], “mudtarib al-hadeeth (confused and mixes up hadeeth). He does not have many authentic hadeeth.”

Imaam an-Nasaa`ee says at the end of ‘ad-Du`afaa wal Matrookeen’ [pg. 57], “he is not strong in hadeeth and he makes many mistakes despite the fact that he only narrates a few narrations.”

Ibn Adee says in ‘al-Kaamil’ [2/403], “he has some acceptable hadeeth but most of what he narrates are mistakes, errors and incorrect additions in isnaads and texts and errors regarding peoples names – most of what he narrates is like this. Out of all that he narrates, only ten odd ahaadeeth are authentic and he has narrated around three hundred ahaadeeth including famous and strange ones – all of them in this way. This is because he is not from the People of Hadeeth and hadeeth are not taken from one such as this in the field of hadeeth.”

Ibn Sa`d said in ‘at-Tabaqaat’ [6/256], “he is da`eef in hadeeth.”

Al-Uqailee says in ‘ad-Du`afaa’ [pg. 432], “Abdullaah bin Ahmad narrated to us saying: I heard my father (Imaam Ahmad) say: the hadeeth of Abu Haneefah are da`eef.”

Ibn Abee Haatim said in ‘al-Jarh wat-Ta`deel’ [4/1/450], “Hajjaaj bin Hamzah narrated to us saying:Abdaan ibn Uthmaan narrated to us saying: I heard ibn al-Mubaarak say: Abu Haneefah was miskeen (poor) with regards hadeeth.”

These two isnaads (of 6&7) are saheeh. I have checked them so that no one should think that perhaps they are like some of the isnaads quoted in the biography of the Imaam in ‘Taareekh Baghdaad’.

Abu Hafs ibn Shaaheen said, “Abu Haneefah with regards to fiqh then no one can fault his knowledge however he was not pleasing in hadeeth…” As is quoted at the end of ‘Taareekh al-Jarjaan’ [pg. 510-511]

Ibn Hibbaan said, “…hadeeth was not his field. He reported one hundred and thirty musnad ahaadeeth and no more, erring in one hundred and twenty either through reversing the isnaads or changing the text without knowing. Therefore when his errors outweigh that which he is correct in it is deserving to leave depending upon him in narrations.”

Ad-Daaruqutnee says in his Sunan [pg. 132]…., “no one reports it from Musa ibn Abee Aa`ishah except Abu Haneefah and al-Hasan ibn Umaarah and both are da`eef.”

Al-Haakim quotes in ‘Ma`rifah al-Ulum al-Hadeeth’ [pg. 256] amongst a group of narrators of the Atbaa` at-Taabi`een and those who came after them – whose ahaadeeth are not accepted in the Saheeh concluding by saying, “so all those we have mentioned are people well known for having narrated – but are not counted as being amongst the reliable precise memorisers.”

Al-Haafidh Abdul Haqq al-Ishbeelee mentions ‘al-Ahkaam al-Kubraa’ [q. 17/2], ….”Abu Haneefah is not used as a proof due to his weakness in hadeeth.”

Ibn al-Jawzee mentions him in ‘Kitaab ad-Du`faah wal Matrookeen’ [3/163] mentioning the weakening of the Imaams of him and from ath-Thawree that he said, “he is not trustworthy and precise.” And from an-Nadr ibn Shameel, “abandoned in hadeeth.”

Adh-Dhahabee says in ‘ad-Du`afaah’, “an-Nu`maan, the Imaam, may Allaah have mercy upon him. Ibn Adee said: most of what he narrates are mistakes, errors and additions and he has some acceptable ahaadeeth. An-Nasaa`ee said: he is not strong in hadeeth, he makes many errors and mistakes even though he does not narrate very much. Ibn Ma`een said: his hadeeth are not to be recorded.”

[Translators addition: al-Qurtobee said at the beginning of his tafseer [1/86], “…and Abu Haneefah and he is da`eef.”

Al-Haafidh al-Mubaarakfooree said in ‘Tuhfatul Ahwadhee’ [1/333], “…it is singularly narrated by Imaam Abu Haneefah and he has weak memory as was made clear by al-Haafidh ibn Abdul Barr. Allaah knows best,”]

Al-Albaanee says following his note on ibn Ma`een, “and the meaning of this report from ibn Ma`een is that with him Abu Haneefah is one of the da`eef narrators. This clarifies for us that the declaration of reliability of ibn Ma`een that al-Haafidh mentions in ‘at-Tahdheeb’ is not his only saying concerning him. What is correct is that he had varying opinions about him – sometimes declaring him reliable and at others declaring him weak as in this report. Sometimes he said, as is reported by ibn Mihriz in ‘Ma`rifah ar-Rijaal’ [1/6/2], ‘Abu Haneefah was alright and he had not used to lie’ and at other times, ‘Abu Haneefah was truthful in our view and he is not accused of lying.’

And there is no doubt in our view that Abu Haneefah was one of the truthful – but this is not enough for his ahaadeeth to be accepted until there is added to this precision and memory – and that is not established from him – may Allaah have mercy upon him, rather the opposite is established by the witness of the ulemaa whom we have mentioned – and they are those whose witness if accepted, will not lead the one who follows them astray – and that this is no way alters the position of Abu Haneefah – may Allaah have mercy upon him – as regards to his deen, piety and fiqh…since how many scholars, judges and pious people have had there memories criticised by the scholars of hadeeth and likewise their lack of precision – but none of that is taken to be a criticism of their deen or trustworthy character. And this is known to those who occupy themselves with the biographies of narrators – and the likes of this are the Qaadee Muhammad ibn Adur Rahmaan ibn Abee Laylaa, the scholar Hammaad ibn Abe Sulaymaan, the Qaadee Shareek ibn Abdullaah, and Abbaad ibn Katheer and others….”

He says in his ‘Prophets Prayer Described’ [pg.ix] , “…and this is the justification for why Abu Haneefah has sometimes unintentionally contradicted the authentic ahaadeeth – and it is perfectly acceptable reason for Allaah does not burden a soul with more than it can bear – it is not permissible to insult him for it as some ignorant people have done. In fact, it is obligatory to respect him, for he is one of the Imaams of the Muslims through whom this deen has been preserved and handed down to us…”

Al-Albaanee concludes his discussion in ad-Da`eefah by saying, “so we conclude with the words of adh-Dhahabee in ‘Siyar A`laam an-Nubulaa’ [5/288/1], ‘his being an Imaam in fiqh and its fine points is accepted and there is no doubt in this…’”

So in conclusion we would like to say: The criticism levelled against Abu Haneefah is not with regards his deen, or belief, or character or fiqh rather it was with regards his memorisation. So whosoever wishes to reply to this then let him address this point and not divert from the issue. End of Abu Rumaysah’s words.

Imam Ahmad weakening Imam Abu Hanifah

Most informations of this articles are taken from the book “Lamhat” of Shaykh Muhammad Rais Nadwi in refutation of “Anwarul Bari” of Al-Bajnori

It is written in “Musnad Ahmad” n 23077: “

‘Abdullah narrated to us: My father narrated to me: Ishaq ibn Yusuf narrated to us: Abu Fulanah narrated to us, this is how my father narrated, he did not name him on purpose, and others narrated to me and said: Abu Hanifah: from ‘Alqamah ibn Marthad from Sulayman ibn Buraydah from his father…”

Meaning that when Imam Ahmad narrated this narration containing Imam Abu Hanifah, he named him: ABU FULANAH, and this was done on purpose, not a slip of the tongue, while other narrated to him this Hadith while mentioning Abu Hanifah…

So it shows that Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal was seeing Imam Abu Hanifah as a weak narrator, and had some criticism of him.

Hafiz Al-Haythami wrote in his “Majma uz-Zawaid” v 1 p 166 about this narration of Imam Ahmad: “It (Isnad) contains a weak narrator, and because of his weakness, he was not named”

Al-Khawarzami mentioned this narration in his “Jami ul Masanid” v 1 p 121 via Imam Ahmad, but he named the narrator as Abu Hanifah. Also Qadhi Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibnul Hasan mentioned this narration from Abu Hanifah but not via Sulyaman ibn Buraydah from his father, but via Ishaq and Mus’ab ibn Maqdam. Also Shu’ayb Al-Arnaut said that Abu Hanifah in narration of Imam Ahmad was the famous Imam Abu Hanifah Nu’man ibn Thabit.

And Imam Al-Bukhari is a student of Imam Ahmad, and when he said about Imam Abu Hanifah: “Sakatu ‘Anhu”, it includes his teachers…else he would say that some declared him to be Thiqah like my teacher Ahmad. Also some teachers like Al-Humaydi were students of Sufyan ibn ‘Uyaynah, ibnul Mubarak…So Imam Al-Bukhari knew the verdicts of these Imams on Abu Hanifah.

Ibnul Mubarak criticism on Imam Abu Hanifah

Qadhi ‘Iyad wrote in his “Tartibul Madarik” v 1 p 300 about Ibnul Mubarak: “He was in first place a companion of Abu Hanifah, then he left him and returned from his Madhab. Ibn Wadah said: He abandoned Abu Hanifah (his narrations) in his books and would not read (his Ahadith) to the people”

Ibn Hibban wrote in his “Thiqat” as mentioned in “Tankil” v1 p 386:

Umar ibn Muhammad Al-Bahiri: I heard Muhammad ibn Sahl ibn Askar: I heard Ibrahim ibn Shamas: I saw Ibnul Mubarak at last reading a book to people and whenever the name of Abu Hanifah was mentioned, he would say: “Idribu aley” and it was the last book he taught before his death”

Ibrahim ibn Shamas is Thiqah Saduq (“Tahzib” p 127)

Muhammad ibn Sahl ibn Askar is Thiqah (“Tahzib” v 9 p 207)

Umar ibn Muhammad Al-Bahiri is Thiqah (“Tazkiratul Hufaz” v 2 p 286)

Moreover, there are similar narrations in “Tarikh Baghdad” v 13 p 413-414

So Al-Khateeb is not alone in reporting these narrations and there are many such narrations.

Imam Al-Bukhari narrated in his “Tarikh Kabeer” (Tarjumah Sufyan Ath-Thawri v 4 p 92 and “Sagheer” p 187:

“’Abdan said to us from Ibnul Mubarak: When you desired, you would see Sufyan praying. When you desired, you would see him narrating. When you desired, you would see him in fiqh subtleties. As for the Majlis I witnessed, there would be no Salah send on the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), meaning the Majlis of Nu’man (Abu Hanifah)”

Abdan is a narrator of two Sahihayn, there are 110 of his narrations in “Sahih Al-Bukhari”.

Al-Khateeb in his “Tarikh Baghdad” (v 13 p 414) brought a similar narration from Ali ibn Ahmad ibn Shaqeeq, another student of ibnul Mubarak, from ibnul Mubarak:

“I have never heard Salah on the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in the Majlis of Abu Hanifah”

And Ali ibn Ahmad ibn Shaqeeq is a narrator of Al-Bukhari and others and a close student of ibnul Mubarak.

Al-Khateeb brought a similar narration via Abu Dawud in v 5 p 311.

So Al-Bukhari and others narrated the same as what Al-Khateeb narrated from students of ibnul Mubarak about their teacher Ibnul Mubarak.

Would all these narrators of Sahih Al-Bukhari and students of ibnul Mubarak gather and lie upon their Shaykh Ibnul Mubarak?

Al-Humaydi and Al-Marwazi on Imam Abu Hanifah

Imam Bukhari said : I asked Abdullah ibn Zubayr Al-Humaydi about Abu Hanifah and he said : A man who has not with him Sunan of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) nor from his companions in rites and others, how can he be trusted in Ahkam of Allah in inheritance, Zakah, Salah and things of Islam (“Tarikh Sagheer” p 156)

Imam Muhammad ibn Nasr Al-Marwazi in his “Qyam layl” said that Abu Hanifah does not allow Witr except 3 and this is because of his little knowledge of Hadith and little sitting with scholars.

Hafiz Ibn Abdil Barr’s weakening of Abu Hanifah

Hafiz ibn Abdil Barr wrote in “Tamhid” v 11 p 48:

He said: “Whoever has an Imam, the recitation of the Imam is his recitation”. This Hadith has been narrated by Jabir Ju’fi from Abu Zubayr from Jabir from the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and Jabir Ju’fi is weak in Hadith having a filthy Mazhab, none should base anything on him. Abu Hanifah narrated this Hadith from Musa ibn Abi ‘Aishah from Abdullah ibn Shaddad ibnul Hadi from Jabir ibn Abdillah from the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), and none mentioned this Hadith in a Musnad way (continuous chain) except Abu Hanifah and he has bad memory (Say ul Hifz) for Ahlul Hadith, and he opposed Huffaz such as Sufyan Ath-Thawri, Shu’bah, ibn ‘Uyaynah, Jariri and others who narrated from Musa ibn Abi ‘Aishah from Abdullah ibn Shaddad in a Mursal way (meaning name of Sahabi is omitted)”

Ibn Abdil Barr told that Imam Abu Hanifah had bad memory (Say ul Hifz) for Ahlul Hadith…He did not even say that Ahlul Hadith differ upon him…So with his great knowledge he clearly knew that Abu Hanifah was not Thiqah for Ahlul Hadith.

Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali on Imam Abu Hanifah

Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali wrote in his “Al-Mankhul” about Abu Hanifah:

“He did not know the Ahadith this is why he would accept weak Ahadith and reject the authentic ones”

Muhammad ‘Awamah and liar Al-Himani

About Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Sult Al-Mughalis Al-Himani, also known as Ahmad ibn Atiyah, read the verdicts of Alhlul Hadith, as quoted by Shaykh Mu’alimi in his “Tankeel”

Ibn Adi said: “I have not seen in the liars someone having less Haya than him, he was Matruk (abandoned).” (See “Al-Kamil” and also “Al-Lisan”)

Ibn Hibban said: “I knew he was fabricating Hadith”

Ad-Daraqutni said: “He was fabricating (Hadith)” (“Tarikh Baghdad” v 5 p 104)

Al-Hakim: “Ibn Sult narrates from Qa’nabi, Musaddad, ibn Abi Uwais and Bishr ibn Walid Ahadith he fabricated”

Al-Barqani declared him to be Matruk

Az-Zahabi said about him “Kazzab” (great liar), “Fabricator”

And despite this, Al-Kawthari defended him, Qurshi mentioned him in his “Jawahir Al-Madhiyah” among Hanafi great scholars, and of course Al-Qurshi did mention any of these words that ibn Hajar and Zahabi will quote, and neither Qurshi could find anyone declaring him to be thiqah…

Also despite this, Muhammad ‘Awammah in his book “Athar ul Al-Hadeeth Ash-Shareef” (p 86) mentioned a narration of this fabricator Al-Himani, in which Al-Amash said to Abu Hanifah that Fuqaha are doctors and we (Muhadith) are pharmacists” (as mentioned in “Asbab Ikhtilaf Fuqaha” of shaykh Irshad ul Haqq Al-Athari)

So it shows that these people have no shame to take from liars to justify that their Imam was the more knowledgeable of all.

Weak and fabricated narrations quoted by Mahdi Hasan

The Deobandi Mufti Mahdi Hasan wrote a book called “Kashf ul Ghamah ‘an Siraj ul Ummah” in which he tried to prove that Abu Hanifah was Thiqah and not weak, and he quoted many fabrications and weak narrations. Shaykh Rais Nadwi replied to his book in his “Majmu’ah Maqalat par Salafi Tahqiqi Jaizah”.

Below we will first have weak narration mentioned by Mahdi Hasan, then the answer will be taken and adapted from Shaykh Rais Nadwi’s work.

Narration of Ibrahim ibn ‘Ikrimah

From Ibrahim ibn ‘Ikrimah: “I have not seen in my time someone more fearful, pious, worshiping, and knowledgeable than Abu Hanifah” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 46)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention the Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 347, we see that Isnad contains ibn Sai’d and he is Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Sa’id known as ibn ‘Uqdah who is a liar, see “Lisan” v 1 p 363-266.

Narration of ‘Ali ibn ‘Asim

From ‘Ali ibn ‘Asim, he said: “If the intelligence of Abu Hanifah was weighted with the intelligence of the people of the earth, then it would be superior” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 46)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention the Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 363, we see that the Isnad contains Muhammad ibn Shuja’ Ath-Thalaji who is a liar.

Narration of Wakee’

From Wakee’, he said: “Abu Hanifah had a great Amanah (trust), and he would favour the satisfaction of Allah over anything, even if he was to face swords for Allah, he would face them” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 46-47)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention the Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 358, we see in the Isnad Ahmad ibn Muflis who is a liar.

Narration of Abdullah ibn Dawud al-Wasiti:

“From ibn Dawud, he said: If you desire the narrations then Sufyan, and if you desire these deep points, then Abu Hanifah” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 47)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Khateeb v 13 p 344, and there is Abu Muhammad Tamar in the Isnad, and Al-Bukhari said “Fihi Nazar”, Abu Hatim said “He is not strong (Qawi), his Hadith contain Manakir”, Abu Ahmad Hakim said “he is not strong (Mateen) for them”, An-Nasai said “weak”, Ibn Hibban said “Munkar ul Hadith Jiddan (very rejected in Hadith), he narrates Manakir from famous narrators, it is not permissible to base on his narration”, Ad-Daraqutni said “weak”.

Narration of ibn ul Mubarak

From Abdullah ibnul Mubarak, he said: “If Allah did not help me with Abu Hanifah and Sufyan Ath-Thawri, I would have been like ordinary people” (Kashf Al-Ghamah p 47)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 336-337, we see that the Isnad contains Hamid ibn Adam who is a liar, see “Lisan ul Mizan” v 2 p 163)

Narration of Muhammad ibn Bishr

Mahdi Hasan quoted a narration of Muhammad ibn Bishr in which he said that when he would leave Abu Hanifah and go to Sufyan Ath-Thawri, Ath-Thawri would say: “You are coming from the most Faqih of this earth” (Kashf Al-Ghamah p 47)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Khateeb v 13 p 344, in the Isnad, there is Jandal ibn Waliq Al-Kufi, and Muslim declared him to be “Matruk” (abandoned), Al-Bazar said: “He is not strong”.

Also it is authentically narrated from Ath-Thawri that he criticized harshly Abu Hanifah, but these people do not accept the authentic narrations, rather prefer these weak and fabricated stories.

Narration of Yazid ibn Harun

From Yazid ibn Harun, he said: I have reached people, but I have not seen anyone more intelligent and pious than Abu Hanifah” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 47)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention the Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 364, we see that the Isnad contains Nuwayd Hariri, and none declared him to be Thiqah.

Narration of Sulayman

From Muhammad ibn Hafs from Al-Hasan from Sulayman, he said: “The end of time will not come until knowledge becomes predominant, he said: the knowledge of Abu Hanifah” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 48)

Answer: Mahdi Hasan did not mention the Isnad, but in “Tarikh” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 336, this narration comes with narrator Hasan ibn Sulayman and Mahdi Hasan altered this and made it “Al-Hasan from Sulayman”, and Hasan ibn Sulayman is Munkar ul Hadith, see “Lisan ul Mizan” v 4 152 and there are other narrators whose mention has not been found by Shaykh Rais, so they are unknown people.

Narration of Shaddad ibn Hakeem

From Muhammad ibn Ahmad Al-Balkhi, he said: I heard Shadad ibn Hakeem saying: “I have not seen more knowledgeable than Abu Hanifah” (“Kashf Al-Ghamah” p 48)

Answer: Muhammad ibn Ahmad Al-Balkhi was drinking wine, see “Lisan” v 1 p 260.

Baseless narrations from Al-Awza’i and ibn ‘Uyaynah

Mahdi Hasan mentioned a story in which Al-Awza’i said to Abu Hanifah that “We are perfume seller and you are doctors”, and also Ibn Uyanah saying that he did not see anyone praying more than Abu Hanifah, and these sayings are quoted in “Mirqat” of Mulla Ali Qari without any isnad, while in many authentic narrations Al-Awza’i and ibn ‘Uyaynah criticized Abu Hanifah.

Weak and fabricated narrations in “Hadith or Ahlul Hadith”

A Ghali Deobandi Muqalid, Anwar Khursheed wrote a book entitled “Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” in which he brought many narrations to show the status of Abu Hanifah, and many of these narrations contains liars and unknown narrators.

First there will be the narration quoted in “Hadith or Ahlul Hadith”, then the answer will be taken from “Hadith or Ahlut Taqlid” of Shaykh Dawud Arshad who refuted this book.

Narration from Malik

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 28 quoting from “Akhbar Abu Hanifah wa Ashabihi” p 74:

“Abdullah ibnul Mubarak said that he was present in a sitting of Imam Malik, and a old man came, and when he left Imam Malik said: “Do you know who he is?” and the people present replied they did not know him and he said: “He is Abu Hanifah, he lives in ‘Iraq, if he tells you that these pillars are in gold, they will be as such, he has received such a Tawfeeq in Fiqh that he finds no difficulty in this subject”

Answer: the narrator from ibnul Mubarak is Jubarah ibn Mughlis al-Himani, and Imam Yahya declared him to be a liar (“Tahzib ul Kamal” v 1 p 436). And the next narrator is Ahmad Al-Himani and he is also a liar as it has preceded.

Narration from Ash-Shafi’i

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 39 quoting from “Tarikh Baghdad” v 13 p 346:

“Ash-Shafi’i said: “Attach yourself to Abu Hanifah and his students, because people are dependant in Fiqh to Abu Hanifah”

Answer: the narration contains the liar Ahmad Al-Hamani.

Also quoting from “Manaqib Abu Hanifah” of Al-Kurdari p 99 that Ash-Shafi’i said that he did not see anyone more Faqih than Abu Hanifah.

Answer: This narration also comes from “Tarikh Baghdad” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 346, and one of its narrators, Zakariya ibn Abdur Rahman is Majhul.

Narration from ibn ‘Uyaynah

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 30 quoting from “Akhbar Abi Hanifah” of As-Sumayri p 76:

“The scholars were these: ibn ‘Abbas in his time, Imam Sha’bi in his time, Abu Hanifah in his time and Sufyan Ath-Thawri in his time”

Answer: This narration contains Abdullah ibn Muhammad Al-Halwani who is Majhul

Narration from Yahya ibn Sa’id Al-Qattan

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 31 quoting from “Muqadimah Kitab ut Ta’lim” of Mas’ud ibn Shaybah:

“Yahya ibn Sa’id Al-Qattan said: “By Allah, Abu Hanifah is the most knowledgeable of what is said by Allah and His Messenger”

Answer: There is no Isnad from Mas’ud ibn Shaybah to Yahya ibn Sa’id al-Qattan, and Mas’ud ibn Shaybah is Majhul as said by ibn Hajar in his “Lisan” v 2 p 26.

Narration from Abdullah ibn Dawud Al-Khuraybi

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” quoting from “Akhbar Abi Hanifah” of As-Sumayri p 79:

“Only two people attribute blame to Abu Hanifah: an ignorant who does not know the level of his speech or a jealous who does not know his knowledge”

Answer: This narration contains Muhammad ibn Shuja’ Al-Baghdadi Al-Hanafi, and he was a Jahmi who was saying that the speech of Allah is created, Imam Ahmad declared him to be an innovator, ibn ‘Adi said that he would fabricate narrations to attack Muhadiths. As-Saji said that he would fabricate Ahadith to support his Madhab and reject Ahadith. See “Tahzib ul Kamal” v 6 p 344” and “Mizan ul I’tidal” v 3 p 578

Conclusion:

The aim of these Muqalids is to propagate lies that their Imam Abu Hanifah was the most knowledgeable of the Imams, that is why one should not act on Hadith even if other Imams did such. So this is the deception of these Ghali Muqalids.

And majority of Ahlul Hadith criticized or weakened Imam Abu Hanifah like Al-Awza’i, Ath-Thawri, Malik, Ahmad ibn Hambal, Ali ibnul Madini, ibn ‘Uyaynah, al-Bukhari, Muslim and others but the Muqalid tried to reject these sayings and said that these Muhadiths were biased.

And instead of following narrations of thiqah narrators about Imam Abu Hanifah, they follow narrations of liars and unknown people, propagate them among laymen so that none asks for daleel and blindly follows their Imam, Allahul Musta’an…

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On 7/13/2020 at 5:23 AM, al-Muttaqin said:

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Salam,

So I guess Bohoras for example are more closer to the truth than 12ver Shias (the 12ver Shias are a relative majority).  

Is this what you mean?  

Why do are you using the Quran verse in this cheap sort of way?   

you see when I used the verse in Surah Nasr, all Muslims accept that this verse is particularly about how “Islam” will prevail.  And I include both Shias and Sunnis as “Islam”.  But the Shias I am arguing against here don’t want to include Sunni Islam.  And so it is pretty laughable in light of the verse in Surah Nasr given that Shias constitute only a mere 3% of the world population.  
 

now you are attempting to use a verse that is self-defeating for yourself!  I mean, what exactly are you trying to prove?  
 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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8 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

what exactly are you trying to prove?

Salam neither being majority means that truth is with you nor being minority & according to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) at first you must know the truth then look for people that are matching with truth that even in battle of Siffin although Muslims knew that truth is with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but a large group of them were waiting for prophecy of prophet Muhammad (pbu) about martyrdom of Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) by wrong side to see that which party will martyr him although Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) after demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) was supporting Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but still some people didn't choose right side before his martyrdom by Muawiah (la) army but again they fooled by propaganda of Muawiah (la) that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) martyred Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) because he used Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) in battlefield & yet some people are saying that Shia Islam affected by Mutazila & Sunnis think because they are in majority so they think that they are with truth anyway in most of times Holy Quran states that in majority of times the minorities are with truth but it doesn't mean being in majority or minority group equals to being with truth but logic of Sunnis & their hadith books  points that truth is with majority because majority of Sunnis denied right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & accepted three caliphs as their leaders that they support it from an accustomed hadith to prophet Muhammad (pbu) from sunni books that " Majority of my Ummah don't gather around falsehood" but it's just a forged hadith to support accepting of any type of leader by muslims because a large community supports the current leader even the current leader actions is against Islam like Al-Saud family.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 7/18/2020 at 2:18 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam neither being majority means that truth is with you nor being minority & according to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) at first you must know the truth then look for people that are matching with truth that even in battle of Siffin although Muslims knew that truth is with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but a large group of them were waiting for prophecy of prophet Muhammad (pbu) about martyrdom of Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) by wrong side to see that which party will martyr him although Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) after demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) was supporting Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but still some people didn't choose right side before his martyrdom by Muawiah (la) army but again they fooled by propaganda of Muawiah (la) that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) martyred Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) because he used Ammar ibn Yaser (رضي الله عنه) in battlefield & yet some people are saying that Shia Islam affected by Mutazila & Sunnis think because they are in majority so they think that they are with truth anyway in most of times Holy Quran states that in majority of times the minorities are with truth but it doesn't mean being in majority or minority group equals to being with truth but logic of Sunnis & their hadith books  points that truth is with majority because majority of Sunnis denied right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & accepted three caliphs as their leaders that they support it from an accustomed hadith to prophet Muhammad (pbu) from sunni books that " Majority of my Ummah don't gather around falsehood" but it's just a forged hadith to support accepting of any type of leader by muslims because a large community supports the current leader even the current leader actions is against Islam like Al-Saud family.

i am sorry that I have not been replying to your posts.  It is just that I had put you on ignore, and so your posts don't automatically appear. But now that I am reading your post here, I will continue to ignore you.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

Ethereal

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On 7/9/2020 at 10:16 PM, starlight said:

Numbers don't matter. In Badr there were 313 versus a thousand. With Imam Zamana (عليه السلام) there are again going to only 313 close companions. Quality matters, not quantity.

Exactly, remember Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) was a nation on his own.

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On 7/10/2020 at 4:35 AM, Diaz said:

Salamu Alaykum, few days ago my friend told me that he fought with a guy who is anti-Shi’a. He was insulting us, shaming us etc, anyway let’s get to the point. That guy said Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is punishing Shi’a by not letting us reproduce a lot of children, he said Shi’a in Iran are decreasing while Sunnis in Iran are increasing, he even said that in the future our population will be like Jewish (20 million worldwide) and then we will extinct. Tbh, I laughed when my friend said that, is population really that important ? I mean there is 250 million Twelver Shi’a and till now we exist and we are stronger. I think what he said is just a fantasy. What do you guys think? Should our population increase like Sunnis?

I believe that the quality of ummah is more important than quantity. Simple 

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The Shia population in history is considered as:

- About a group of some companions as Shia of Imam Ali (عليه السلام). in life of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and particularly in last days:

- Shia of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in the caliphate of early caliphs a group about 20-30 companions

- Shia of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) - a group of about 300 companions in the caliphate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

- Shia of Imams - a group of martyred about 72 - 90 persons in kerbela

- Shia of Imams of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) - about  350 Million to 400 Million (2009) about 20% of total muslim population.

http://www.shianumbers.com/shia-muslims-population.html#:~:text=Shia Numbers are in the range of 320,six-in-ten (62%) – is located in Asia itself.

Then the thought of decrease in shia population is not considered  factual or real.

 
Edited by Muslim2010

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7 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

Shia of Imams of Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) - about  350 Million to 400 Million (2009) about 20% of total muslim population.

So In 2020 how many Shi’as are there? Because I remember I’ve read somewhere that Twelver Shi’a population is only 250 million in 2019.

Edited by Diaz

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It is true that numerical majority does not represent truth, but to say that Shia population is decreasing is wishful thinking one the part of the Anti Shia crowd

There are more complex proofs of this, but if you want a simple proof, wait till the time of Muharram and see all the new places that are holding majlis for Aba Abdillah((عليه السلام)). Each one of these places represents a new community of Shia that didn't exist before. Most of our Shia brothers and sisters in the US know that almost every muharram, there is a new program at a new place that didn't exist the year before. Also, if you go back 100 years, most major cities in the US and Canada had no program for Muharram. How many programs that exist today existed 100 years ago, for our brothers and sisters who live in the West ? Maybe 1 or 2. Now you have programs in every major city and even some smaller cities, and in places like Dearborn where I live you have 10s of programs going on. Also, you have Muharram programs in places no Shia ever thought 100 years ago like Tokyo, Japan, Reykjavík, Iceland and St. Petersburg, Russia. There were few or no muslims in these places 100 years ago. Now there are Shia communities in all of them. These communities are growing, not shrinking. 

Another proof, google 'largest gathering' in History. Largest gatherings of people, or largest gatherings in history. Where are they ? 

This might not be a good proof this year, because of Covid probably most will be virtual. But this year is an exception for almost everything. 

 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Imam Khamenei: Bearing children significant duty for families

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Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei delivered a speech on the significant role of families on August 15, 2019, in a meeting with some NGOs active in the affairs of families. Part of the Leader's remarks has been published today by his official website.

During the meeting, Ayatollah Khamenei pointed to four topics relating to the issue of family, namely, ‘the survival of the family’, ‘the atmosphere inside the family’, ‘fertility’, and ‘marriage of singles’.

The leader urged officials and NGOs to find practical ways to decrease divorce and boost the foundation of the family.

He went on to point to the need for some rules and regulations inside the family to amend some behaviors that are against justice. Injustice can be towards both men and women, he said.

Referring to the significance of population growth, Ayatollah Khamenei said that with the current rate of fertility, Iran will become an old country some 30 years from now and this is a ‘great danger’. There are certainly ways to improve the situation, he said, calling on officials and people to think of solutions.

https://en.abna24.com/news//imam-khamenei-bearing-children-significant-duty-for-families_1057225.html

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On 7/21/2020 at 11:13 AM, Abu Hadi said:

It is true that numerical majority does not represent truth, but to say that Shia population is decreasing is wishful thinking one the part of the Anti Shia crowd

There are more complex proofs of this, but if you want a simple proof, wait till the time of Muharram and see all the new places that are holding majlis for Aba Abdillah((عليه السلام)). Each one of these places represents a new community of Shia that didn't exist before. Most of our Shia brothers and sisters in the US know that almost every muharram, there is a new program at a new place that didn't exist the year before. Also, if you go back 100 years, most major cities in the US and Canada had no program for Muharram. How many programs that exist today existed 100 years ago, for our brothers and sisters who live in the West ? Maybe 1 or 2. Now you have programs in every major city and even some smaller cities, and in places like Dearborn where I live you have 10s of programs going on. Also, you have Muharram programs in places no Shia ever thought 100 years ago like Tokyo, Japan, Reykjavík, Iceland and St. Petersburg, Russia. There were few or no muslims in these places 100 years ago. Now there are Shia communities in all of them. These communities are growing, not shrinking. 

Another proof, google 'largest gathering' in History. Largest gatherings of people, or largest gatherings in history. Where are they ? 

This might not be a good proof this year, because of Covid probably most will be virtual. But this year is an exception for almost everything. 

 

 

I am sorry, but what “exactly” are you trying to prove?

!!!!!

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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