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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Salam brother and sisters.

I was hoping we can have an intellectual and peaceful discussion in this thread regarding the marriage dilemma many of us face.

Reading many threads and listening to some few muslim speakers, many seem to be unanimious that it's wajib to get married if one is commiting sin such as porn, istimna, zina etc. However if one is not commiting those sins but they are afraid that they might fall into those traps, it would still be wajib on them to get married.

The problem I have with these views is that it makes the intention for marriage to be a way to fulfill their desire. I don't necessary think it's wrong with that intention, however long term wise it could have a bad impact on the marriage.

Is it wise islamically to enter nikah marriage for the purpose of fulfilling their sexual desire?

Now there is another option, temporarily marriage, mutah. Mutah can be beneficial but it can also lead to many other problems depending on the couples involved. First of all, mutah with a muslim sister in the west is pretty much impossible. No father will give away their daughter for temporarily pleasure for another man. I wouldn't do it either if I had a daughter.

What most of us brothers are left with are western woman for mutah. There are some decent western woman that are applicable to be a mutah wife however it's not easy to find them and when you have found them, they might not be interested in such relationship. Majority of western woman that we can marry temporarily are breaking many of the islamic rules, leaving us disheartened for the temporarily pleasure of sex. This has discouraged many brothers from having mutah relationships with western woman, including myself. Now is it worth to be disheartened everyday for the temporarily pleasure of sex? Is this so much better than the other major sins? Personally I do not understand this.

Converting them to islam is not an easy job, and most likely won't happen unless they are deeply in love with you and do it for your sake, or because they start to believe in islam.

What most muslim brother then are left with, is either 1. commit major sins, 2. live your life like a monk until you are all ready with your degrees and have a good job to get nikah marriage with muslim sister or  3. to be of the lucky few that managed to get a good mutah/nikah at an early age.

Majority of people fall in the first option, that they commit major sins, this includes both sunni and shia brothers. The ones that are able to life like a monk meaning no sex and no istimna until their mid 20's or late 20's are very rare. And the ones that fall in the third option, that they are able to get married at early age with good nikah/mutah wife is also not very common in the west.

I am certainly not the only one aware of these issues, yet there is so little talk about these concerns. This includes both within the islamic families and within the islamic communities.
What are then our obligations as muslim brothers being aware of these issues? are we supposed to get married nikah/mutah with whoever we find just to prevent ourselves commiting sins? For example in another thread there was a discussion regarding mutah with prostitute and how some marjas in their "vague answer" to the "vague questions" kinda gave the impression  that if there is no other absolute option to fulfill the desire and one is afraid that they might fall into zina or istimna then mutah with a prostitute is the last option. What came to my mind is that, how is mutah with a prostitute better option than to commit istimna no matter how big of sin that is. I am hoping brother @Abu Hadi can give his input.


These are pretty much some of the dilemmas we brothers are facing. Many of us also have younger siblings and younger cousins, what guidance/help can we give them?

I would like to hear from both the young and older brothers in the forum.

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6 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

I would like to hear from both the young and older brothers in the forum.

Brother, if I speak of myself, I am blessed to have not born in west. Secondly, I had strong feelings while I got adult but I prayed to Allah (عزّ وجلّ) that help me to counter it. So, right now Allah (عزّ وجلّ) has favoured me with so many tasks that I hardly think that way and when it happen, I just ignore it because I have to pray daily. 

I would request those:youths:

1.Just start praying daily and you will get rid of that habit and won't think about committing sins for you can't do five times ghusal and pray. That's what Quran says: "Salah prevents from evil and bad habits".

2. Keep fasting for days for doing wrong deeds invalidate fasting and you surely wont break it.

3. Busy yourself with activities. Prohibit your eyes from seeing bad things and ears from bad voices. Make it a habit.

These I think are some suggestions, I hope can work for you and that's all I can say.

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1 hour ago, Flying_Eagle said:

I would request those:youths:

1.Just start praying daily and you will get rid of that habit and won't think about committing sins for you can't do five times ghusal and pray. That's what Quran says: "Salah prevents from evil and bad habits".

2. Keep fasting for days for doing wrong deeds invalidate fasting and you surely wont break it.

3. Busy yourself with activities. Prohibit your eyes from seeing bad things and ears from bad voices. Make it a habit.

Doing the wajibas and staying god concisouness is a very good way to break free from bad habits yes. But it's not all. Many muslim brothers are doing wajibas such as praying and fasting, yet they are still doing some major sins.

We must remember that the human body has a very strong urge to mate, one of the reason for this strong urge is because our survival depends on that strong urge. Without that strong sexual urge there wouldn't be much procreation.

I appreciate your reply brother, but it doesn't really answer the dilemmas I listed.

What you are pretty much suggesting is to kill that urge and live like a monk until you find a proper nikah wife, which is very unlikely to happen for majority of people. For those who are amongst those people AlhmadulIllah and SubhanAllah, keep that way.

Edited by AkhiraisReal
appreciate

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Sorry to be a pessimist but there probably isn't a one shoe fits all answer to this.

Even as to mut'a, I would say that most Muslim women wouldn't want to have anything to do with you if they found out that you were temporarily married in the past. In all fairness, you can see where they are coming from, it isn't only that they are fundamentally against it, it is more that if she has kept herself a virgin (and in many cases sacrificed her youth and best childbearing years) it is normal that she would want someone who has done the same. Whether that is realistic or not is another issue.

I've noticed that converts seem to be more open to low dowry, low cost weddings making marriage to them easier, but again that may be a stereotype. Either way it isn't like you will be compatible with just anyone and it isn't only women who want to marry someone from their ethnic and cultural background, many men want to as well.

Or going back to your country of origin where your somewhat meagre means in the West would be viewed as opulent from their standards is also an option, but there often cultural difficulties taking that path.

Bottom line is there is no solution to this, you probably need to cast a wide net and pray to Allah to ease your task.

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Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

As-Salamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

If most of us fall into sin because of the circumstances we face in the West...then maybe most of us shouldn't be here...

But it was the will of Allah that we were born in the West. At least personally, I do not have the means to leave this country for a Muslim country, not for at least 4-8 more years. And even then, if I were to move to a Muslim country, I don't have too many choices due to the strict immigration laws most of them have. Pakistan? Where I'd end up in a Westoxified circle due to my family/status? I don't know how that's even better. Living as an expat in UAE or something? Still a rather Westoxified environment. I could go through more examples, but the point is that hijrah seems out of the picture.

So what can we do in the West, knowing that most of us will fall into sin? It seems that all we can do, like brother @Ali_Hussain said, is trust in Allah. Given the current social circumstances of the Western Muslim community, in which mut'ah is scorned by women and their fathers, while early marriage is impossible for most folks, I personally don't have much hope in finding a wife of my own effort. Almost literally, it seems like it would take a miracle...

I don't mean that we should not actively search for a wife. However, the chances that one will come across a chaste woman who is at a similar age, and would marry someone who has had a mut'ah or commit istimna are insanely slim. (And no you probably cannot hide it if you have commit istimna, unless you lie, which is haram of course).

Maybe look for older women? 30-somethings, divorcees, widows and such?

Idk at my age I just have to be patient and work on fixing myself.

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10 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Doing the wajibas and staying god concisouness is a very good way to break free from bad habits yes. But it's not all. Many muslim brothers are doing wajibas such as praying and fasting, yet they are still doing some major sins.

We must remember that the human body has a very strong urge to mate, one of the reason for this strong urge is because our survival depends on that strong urge. Without that strong sexual urge there wouldn't be much procreation.

I appreciate your reply brother, but it doesn't really answer the dilemmas I listed.

What you are pretty much suggesting is to kill that urge and live like a monk until you find a proper nikah wife, which is very unlikely to happen for majority of people. For those who are amongst those people AlhmadulIllah and SubhanAllah, keep that way.

True brother, this is what I said but I will call It being patient and not being monk as Quran says. Nikah is one among wajibat and I know that urge can be too great that's why its allowed to have mutah with non-muslims. The other way possible way I think is that Muslims become imbibed with ghera due to morality lessons so they can't afford their daughters to live a life of temporary wife. However, with non-Muslim woman, you can marry them and deal them with moral teachings of Quran. Don't force them to Islam if Allah (عزّ وجلّ) wills she will know greatness of islam and if she dont then brother you can't do anything as our prophets were not allowed to force people to islam.

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16 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Salam brother and sisters.

I was hoping we can have an intellectual and peaceful discussion in this thread regarding the marriage dilemma many of us face.

Reading many threads and listening to some few muslim speakers, many seem to be unanimious that it's wajib to get married if one is commiting sin such as porn, istimna, zina etc. However if one is not commiting those sins but they are afraid that they might fall into those traps, it would still be wajib on them to get married.

The problem I have with these views is that it makes the intention for marriage to be a way to fulfill their desire. I don't necessary think it's wrong with that intention, however long term wise it could have a bad impact on the marriage.

Is it wise islamically to enter nikah marriage for the purpose of fulfilling their sexual desire?

Now there is another option, temporarily marriage, mutah. Mutah can be beneficial but it can also lead to many other problems depending on the couples involved. First of all, mutah with a muslim sister in the west is pretty much impossible. No father will give away their daughter for temporarily pleasure for another man. I wouldn't do it either if I had a daughter.

What most of us brothers are left with are western woman for mutah. There are some decent western woman that are applicable to be a mutah wife however it's not easy to find them and when you have found them, they might not be interested in such relationship. Majority of western woman that we can marry temporarily are breaking many of the islamic rules, leaving us disheartened for the temporarily pleasure of sex. This has discouraged many brothers from having mutah relationships with western woman, including myself. Now is it worth to be disheartened everyday for the temporarily pleasure of sex? Is this so much better than the other major sins? Personally I do not understand this.

Converting them to islam is not an easy job, and most likely won't happen unless they are deeply in love with you and do it for your sake, or because they start to believe in islam.

What most muslim brother then are left with, is either 1. commit major sins, 2. live your life like a monk until you are all ready with your degrees and have a good job to get nikah marriage with muslim sister or  3. to be of the lucky few that managed to get a good mutah/nikah at an early age.

Majority of people fall in the first option, that they commit major sins, this includes both sunni and shia brothers. The ones that are able to life like a monk meaning no sex and no istimna until their mid 20's or late 20's are very rare. And the ones that fall in the third option, that they are able to get married at early age with good nikah/mutah wife is also not very common in the west.

I am certainly not the only one aware of these issues, yet there is so little talk about these concerns. This includes both within the islamic families and within the islamic communities.
What are then our obligations as muslim brothers being aware of these issues? are we supposed to get married nikah/mutah with whoever we find just to prevent ourselves commiting sins? For example in another thread there was a discussion regarding mutah with prostitute and how some marjas in their "vague answer" to the "vague questions" kinda gave the impression  that if there is no other absolute option to fulfill the desire and one is afraid that they might fall into zina or istimna then mutah with a prostitute is the last option. What came to my mind is that, how is mutah with a prostitute better option than to commit istimna no matter how big of sin that is. I am hoping brother @Abu Hadi can give his input.


These are pretty much some of the dilemmas we brothers are facing. Many of us also have younger siblings and younger cousins, what guidance/help can we give them?

I would like to hear from both the young and older brothers in the forum.

Salam Br, 

For your first point, you are correct that if someone is into those haram things you mentioned, it is wajib to marry (zawajtul nikah or mutah, either one is fine). 

As to your point about sexual desire, this is the main purpose why 99.9% of the brothers, at least, (and I suspect most of the sisters also, but I won't elaborate on that) get married (whether zawajtul nikah or mutah). If they are honest with you about their reasons. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) placed this desire in us for just that reason. So that we would seek out halal marriage and by doing that build stable families and communities. If this desire were not in us, almost noone would seek out marriage, because from a rational point of view, purely rational excluding religion, marriage is a very risky and dangerous activity. For the man, he is now financially obligated to support a wife and x number of children in a world which is not economically stable and he doesn't know tomorrow if he will be able to meet this obligation.  For a women, she has to put herself under the wilayat (guardianship) of a man, even though she may be more educated, more intelligent than, and / or more religious than him. For both, they have to put up with each others outbursts and moods and commit to stay with each other thru 'good times and bad'. The good times are easy for most couples, the bad time are not, and bad times will inevitably come to the life of every married couple. 

So a rational person without religion would never seek out marriage. It would be much more 'rational' for them to go from relationship to relationship, stay when it is good, and head for the door when it starts to get bad, which now basically describes most relationships in the West. What happens when this becomes common, well for most of us we already see the effects of this, broken families, unstable communities, huge amounts of mental illness such as anxiety and depression, increase in suicide, etc, basically increase of social problems of all types. If it weren't for the fact that Islam tells us that you can ONLY fulfill your sexual desire within a marriage relationship, muslims would be no different from non muslims in this regard. The only reason, I think, that the muslim community is more stable and more prosperous in terms of family and community vs. non muslims is because of this. In the US, the muslim family has a 33% higher income on average compared to non muslims and the community in general. I think the main reason for this is because of the above. 

As for your second point about mutah, I will say it once again. Getting married (whether mutah or zawajtul nikah) requires time, effort, and energy. Anything good you get in this life you have to work for and that means putting in time, effort, and energy. I see so many brothers who spend countless hours studying for exams, working in their jobs, doing 'hustles' on the side to get money, but when it comes to getting married, expect that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will drop a women for them from out of the sky. That isn't how it works. If you want to do mutah, you basically go about it the same way as you would anything else in life that you want to accomplish. You make a plan, gather data, test your plan, if it fails, gather more data, make a new plan or adjust your old one, and try again. Keep going with this till you find a strategy that works. Your idea about how to find a girl for mutah will probably not work the first time, or the second time, etc. But it is like anything else. If you keep going and don't give up, eventually something will work. 

The reason why noone can tell you, o.k, if you want to find a girl for mutah do this, that, then this, etc, is because noone knows what you know. Noone has all the information you have about the community where you live, the girls that are there, what are there inclinations, like, preferences. It is different in every place. Only you have that information, but I know that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) doesn't make something wajib for someone unless he also gives them the ability to accomplish it. Otherwise Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is unjust, and we know that He(s.w.a) isn't that way. If you or anyone else puts in the time, effort, and energy, makes a plan, gathers data, executes the plan, if it fails.....like I said above then you will get what you are trying to get. It is only a matter of time before it happens. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Brothers,  my problem is not getting married, my problem is rather a dilemma whether it's worth getting married for the sake of getting disheartened every day. Which in most cases will be like this.

What do I mean by disheartened? That they are living a life of the normal western girl, drink, sometimes party, half naked social media pics of herself, dresses imodesty etc.

I wouldn't want my permanent wife to be like this, so why would I accept a mutah wife like this?

There is benefit and liabilty that comes with mutah. The benefits are that you have halal option to take care of your urges. The liablities are that she's your wife until the mutah is over and probably are breaking many of the islamic laws. Now, I wouldn't want my own siblings or cousins to have these mutah wives because of that reason. But then what other options are left?

in your area, lets say the top 3 girls that you know of and have interest in. The top 3 girls, will have no hijab, will occasionally drink, will dress immodest, (just gave some examples, you can probably think of others), meaning that it won't be close to the islamic standards. Some of these can be changed as time goes by, such as that she might quit drinkning and have more modesty towards her social media and clothes, but it will still not be within the boundaries of islam. This would cause a man with enough honor and selfrespect to think about it everyday and be disheartened. Because deep down, we have obligations towards our creator and our prophets and the ahlul bayt. Would they want us to be hanging with these woman?

Sometimes I am questioning myself, maybe im overthinking this and being too strict to myself.

 

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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9 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Brothers, I have had mutah marriage before with western woman. My problem is not getting married, my problem is rather a dilemma whether it's worth getting married for the sake of getting disheartened every day. Which in most cases will be like this.

What do I mean by disheartened? That they are living a life of the normal western girl, drink, sometimes party, half naked social media pics of herself, dresses imodesty etc.

I wouldn't want my permanent wife to be like this, so why would I accept a mutah wife like this?

There is benefit and liabilty that comes with mutah. The benefits are that you have halal option to take care of your urges. The liablities are that she's your wife until the mutah is over and probably are breaking many of the islamic laws. Now, I wouldn't want my own siblings or cousins to have these mutah wives because of that reason. But then what other options are left?

in your area, lets say the top 3 girls that you know of and have interest in. The top 3 girls, will have no hijab, will occasionally drink, will dress immodest, (just gave some examples, you can probably think of others), meaning that it won't be close to the islamic standards. Some of these can be changed as time goes by, such as that she might quit drinkning and have more modesty towards her social media and clothes, but it will still not be within the boundaries of islam. This would cause a man with enough honor and selfrespect to think about it everyday and be disheartened. Because deep down, we have obligations towards our creator and our prophets and the ahlul bayt. Would they want us to be hanging with these woman?

Brother, I was in the exact same situation as you before I did my zawaj tul nikah. I had the same concerns. 

First, you should say 'Almanduillah' that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has arranged things for you so that you have this need fulfilled and don't have to go toward haram. 

Second, you should look for the good in the lady that you are with. I know this is difficult, especially when you see her doing things that violate Islam. But,for example when she cooks for you or does something out of the way that she doesn't have to do, you should say thank you for that to her. Also. let he know that she is special to you and you appreciate her. In other words be first thankful to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), who is the source of all happiness, then be thankful to your wife for the things she does to help you. As Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Holy Quran, 'Be thankful and I will give you more'. This works not only if you are thankful to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but also if you are thankful and nice to your wife, she will then change toward you and will be more willing to listen to you when you talk to her about religion. As I said before, your duty toward your wife, regarding Amr Bil Maroof.... is the same and no different as it is regarding anyone else. You should attempt to steer her toward the Maroof and away from the Munkhar in the way that is possible for you and the way you think will be effective. If she then disregards what you say, and goes out and does what she does, you are not responsible for this, nor should you feel guilty about it, since you did what you are required to do by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

At the same time, a big part of Amr bil Maroof... is to do it in a way that is most effective, given your own abilities and talents. If a person sees you as someone who is not following the religion yourself, or someone who treats them rudely and with disrespect, and is not thankful for the ways that they benefit you and help you, they will definitely not listen to anything you have to say regarding religion. Because to them, you are the religion (this is before they have knowledge about it that is independent of you) . They may pretend they are listening, to get some benefit from you, but in fact they are not taking it 'to heart'. But if you are caring and kind toward them, thank them, and do what you can to help them in their life and practice the religion yourself, it is only at that point that you can hope to have any sort of effect on them, as far as Amr Bil Maroof.... But if you can do that, you will definitely have an effect on them in a positive way. Noone can 'make' someone muslim, only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can do that, and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has made this contingent on when the person actually wants to be guided. You have no way of knowing whether they want to be guided toward the truth, because this is entirely inside someones heart and soul and is not accessible to anyone else besides that person and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). You can't 'make' someone muslim, but you can influence them in that direction thru good actions, which is what Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) did and also the Imams of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). Most of their 'preaching' was thru their actions. 

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18 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

What most of us brothers are left with are western woman for mutah

I am going to assume you mean non-muslim when you say western, because you then mention that they commit major sins. 

Question - why would you do mutah with a non-muslim woman when there are thousands of muslim women out there. Keep in mind that muslim women also struggle with sins and keeping chaste, so a mutah would also help them to avoid major sins because mutah is a permissible relationship. 

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18 minutes ago, Kaya said:

I am going to assume you mean non-muslim when you say western, because you then mention that they commit major sins. 

Question - why would you do mutah with a non-muslim woman when there are thousands of muslim women out there. Keep in mind that muslim women also struggle with sins and keeping chaste, so a mutah would also help them to avoid major sins because mutah is a permissible relationship. 

Yes, I think he is speaking of Non Muslim women. In my experience, and the experience of most brothers I know, asking a muslim women for mutah marriage is 'mission impossible' in most cases. Like the brother said, almost always the sister hasn't been married before and is living at home with her parents. The parents will not agree to this 99.99999% of the time, so for most brothers those are very bad odds, so they don't even try. I don't blame them. 

I also don't necessarily blame the parents. Like the brother said, and I agree with him, If he had a daughter, he would not agree to it. Because, unfortunately, there are some muslim men who are not honest people and will not be honest with the girl and her family regarding their intentions. It only takes a few of these to 'spoil the soup'  for the rest of the brothers who would be honest regarding their intentions for the marriage. 

For a muslim women, to be married in mutah for a short period of time, then the relationship is over (unless she is divorced or a widow), this is a cultural taboo and would make it extremely difficult for her to find a husband for zawaj tul nikah. So for them, it is too much of a risk to take. 

For a non muslim, Ahl Al Kitab, having some short term relationships before 'settling down' to permanent marriage is the norm, not the exception, and would not harm them in the long term as far as finding a husband and 'settling down' whether the mutah relationship becomes zawajtul nikah or not. Because of this, they are much more likely to agree to a mutah marriage, and most of the time, their parents have very little if any say in this. Even if they did, they are not likely to object. So this is why most, if not all muslim men in the West choose this option for a mutah relationship. It is not the ideal, and there are big drawbacks (as mentioned by the brother), but in the end, it is much more likely to actually happen vs. a mutah relationship with a muslim women in the West, commonly referred to as a 'pipe dream' in most cases. 

For the sisters who are in this difficult dilemma, my advice is to marry as early as possible and don't wait. The parents will try to delay it as long as possible, but it is up to the sisters to stand up to their parents and tell them that they need to get married and either the parents can find someone for them in x number of months (not years) or they will look on their own. That is their right in Islam, and the parents have no right to stand in their way. If a large number of sisters actually did this we would be living in a different community and a different world. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

In my experience, and the experience of most brothers I know, asking a muslim women for mutah marriage is 'mission impossible' in most cases.

Why is this the case? I'm hearing about muslim women having relationships with non-muslim men and it mostly doesn't work out. So why would they not have mutah marriages with muslim men so as to avoid sin until they can have a permanent marriage. Surely that is better than sinning and DISOBEYING Allah (azwj) and having non-muslim boyfriends.

Of course if the muslim woman is very religious then it might be harder for her to do mutah (and good for her if this is the case). But in this case she should be in a permanent marriage anyway because that is what her religion demands of her. I don't see a reasonable excuse to say "oh I am too religious for temporary relationships, but I'll remain without marriage until I finish university and work for 5 years". That's just not realistic, and she will probably fall into sin with some good-looking man that flirts with her.

Plus some people think that with Mutah marriages you just have intimacy for a week and then the marriage ends. Is this really how it has to be? Can you not have a proper healthy long-term relationship (months, years) were you talk to the other person, spend time with them, support them emotionally etc. ? In my opinion this is very possible, the only difference between the mutah and the permanent marriage is that the permanent marriage is more serious and committed, but that does not mean that a mutah has to last for a week and have no emotions attached. Do you guys agree with this or am I talking crazy? :confused:

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The core issue here is the assumption that one can only marry later in life. There is in reality no good reason why we can't marry soon after becoming baligh (as men). In fact a lot of western couples (non muslim) are already with their life partner from their teens. Of course they often end up marrying much later, which is problematic, but the relationship starts quite early in life.

Our duty as muslimeen is to marry at a young age in order to protect ourselves from sin, in order to work together with our spouse to get closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and for those of us who are married and parents we should facilitate this for our children. 

This is the solution. 

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20 hours ago, Kaya said:

I don't see a reasonable excuse to say "oh I am too religious for temporary relationships, but I'll remain without marriage until I finish university and work for 5 years". That's just not realistic, and she will probably fall into sin with some good-looking man that flirts with her.

 

I don't see a reasonable excuse either, and the pitfuls (what you stated and others) are very obvious and happen all the time. This is not a logical issue or an Islamic issue, it is a cultural issue. Cultural issues cannot be changed by logic, since they are not based on logic most of the time. They can only be changed when you have a 'critical mass' of affected people who decide they are going to 'rise up' and change the culture. There have been many instances of this in history. A recent one would be the protest against 'Jim Crow' laws in the Southern States of the United States which led to the Civil Rights movement. 

Culture is simply a set of behaviors, and a language that describes those behaviors, that were adapted by a group of people in order to survive and thrive in a given area at a particular point in time. Although area and time changes, culture is much slower to change, and very seldom changes unless there is an event or series of events that changes.  Religion is different, as religion (the true religion anyway, which is Islam) is given by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to the people whereas culture is made up by people for a particular reason and purpose. But as time and area changes, that purpose may no longer be valid in the given context. That is why culture is always (or should be always) subject to scrutiny and should change over time, whereas religion should not. 

So for this case, the idea that a women should stay at her parent's home until she is married permenantly and then move in with her husband and this is the only option that is available for her is a cultural idea. It may have had a purpose and relevance in the past, but times have changed since then. You have women who go to university and live away from their parents for long periods of time while studying or working, etc. Even the ones who live at home with their parents spend a great deal of their time outside the home going to class, participating in various activities, maybe working, etc.Islam is much more flexible and gives women many options, mutah is one of the those options, permenant marriage is another. What stops women from exercising this option is the Cultural expectation that when a women does her zawaj tul nikah (permenant marriage), she will not have had any other marriages before this, otherwise she is of 'lesser value' or 'no value' in terms of marriage. Nothing will change until this expectation changes. It will changes as soon as a large number of muslim women have the courage to go against this expectation and practice mutah, the proper way and fulfilling the conditions. This seems liike a radical idea, but it is not that radical. 

This was done during the time of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h), and even during the time of Abu Bakr's (supposed) Caliphate until Umar banned the practice. This was recorded in many hadith, even those recorded in Sunni books that mutah was so common during that time that it was considered normal and noone looked down on the practice or the women who engaged in it since it was and is part of the religion of Islam and thus approved of by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), so the society had no right to disapprove of it. This was backed up by the famous hadith of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) that said that 'if Umar wouldn't have prohibited mutah, no muslim would have committed zina except the extremely corrupt ones'. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

Cultural issues cannot be changed by logic, since they are not based on logic most of the time. They can only be changed when you have a 'critical mass' of affected people who decide they are going to 'rise up' and change the culture.

Couldn't have said it better. I guess it might take a generation or two before the community realises how devastating it is for them to block their daughters from marriage until early 30s and that this pushes many to zina and other sins. It has to affect a critical mass of people first unfortunately. How hard people learn... 

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5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

So for this case, the idea that a women should stay at her parent's home until she is married permenantly and then move in with her husband and this is the only option that is available for her is a cultural idea. It may have had a purpose and relevance in the past, but times have changed since then. You have women who go to university and live away from their parents for long periods of time while studying or working, etc. Even the ones who live at home with their parents spend a great deal of their time outside the home going to class, participating in various activities, maybe working, etc.Islam is much more flexible and gives women many options, mutah is one of the those options, permenant marriage is another.

 

I think most parents wants their daughter to stay at home because the father don't want to lose the gaurdianship over her. When a woman lives by herself she don't need to ask permission from her guardian for marriage if I am not mistaken.

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

What stops women from exercising this option is the Cultural expectation that when a women does her zawaj tul nikah (permenant marriage), she will not have had any other marriages before this, otherwise she is of 'lesser value' or 'no value' in terms of marriage. Nothing will change until this expectation changes. It will changes as soon as a large number of muslim women have the courage to go against this expectation and practice mutah

I know this example might not be fair, however, if you could choose between a brand new Ferrari and a used Ferrari, which one would you choose? Majority of men want virgin woman for permanent marriage. As for woman I don't know if they would prefer the same.

This might seem hypocritical as I am both for mutah but then also say that I would prefer a virgin muslim sister for permanent marriage. I wouldn't mind doing mutah with a muslim sister with the intention of turning it to permanent marriage, but then there is that chance that it won't turn that way. And most likely the girls chance of getting permanent marriage will be reduced after having that mutah.

So I personally believe sisters should be careful with mutah, If they want to get married they should talk to their parents for permanent marriage. Thats my personal view, if there is backup islamically for this I don't know.

 

On 7/4/2020 at 5:29 PM, Kaya said:

Plus some people think that with Mutah marriages you just have intimacy for a week and then the marriage ends. Is this really how it has to be? Can you not have a proper healthy long-term relationship (months, years) were you talk to the other person, spend time with them, support them emotionally etc. ? In my opinion this is very possible, the only difference between the mutah and the permanent marriage is that the permanent marriage is more serious and committed, but that does not mean that a mutah has to last for a week and have no emotions attached. Do you guys agree with this or am I talking crazy?

I agree with this brother. Mutah could also be used in a way were the couples get to know each other for permanent marriage.

The word itself basically means pleasure marriage if i am not mistaken. Meaning that the purpose of mutah is basically sex. I have heard you can put conditions on a mutah contract such as no intimicay, but I don't how if that's allowed in mutah contract. Because basically she's your wife, and your wife is to give you sex.

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Guest zzzzzzz!Monad

the only dilemma is that the males in question grew up too late in recognizing the skills needed in acquiring a wife. The fault lies in how it was preached, as in, just pray to God and he shall deliver while forcing the said males not to interact with females, thus positioning them behind the queue. We understand such rulings considering that maturity and responsibility at a young age depends on intellect and household environment.

Now with the plethora of information, the only proposition is that the males who cannot get married to stop making these posts and basically ask themselves certain questions:

What is stopping me from getting married?

  • Money.
  • Social skills or interaction with religious females in a particular environment.
  • do we engage in community affairs where we would find said type of females.
  • Contact their local scholars and tell them what you seek. If you seek a barbie doll then ask for it.
  • If one cannot find a suitable partner in the said city, then ask the scholar for contacts in other cities or countries. There are plenty of females in third world countries willing to marry males from abroad. Go to Iraq or Syria, you will find loads of single females.
  • The males just need to make sure they are not also extremists in their own religious view points.

Thus the issue of being single is due to monetary problems and youth. No one is going to help you because everyone has their own problems in life. Even one were to find someone to assist you, as in offer their daughter or son, while the opposition does not have any monetary value, what they bet is on the characteristics of the individuals.

Now if you dont have money then not even a non-muslim female will consider you. They have the same problems. we know that the economic game is inbalance and catered towards the rich to steal money from the bottom. Bring value to the table, as even the narrations point to the same fact or just bear it out until death. If one is lucky you can get the devils daughters in hell for marriage.

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Honest question: Is it really this difficult to get married in real life nowadays or is it just SCers who have been blessed with special spouse repelling traits? In real life I see people getting married left, right and centre. 

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20 minutes ago, starlight said:

Honest question: Is it really this difficult to get married in real life nowadays or is it just SCers who have been blessed with special spouse repelling traits? In real life I see people getting married left, right and centre. 

Well many of us are internet dwelling weirdos, that could be a factor

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7 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

.                                                                                         adheres to

Culture is simply a set of behaviors, and a language that desc^ribes those behaviors,

This is why there is etiquette, so eveyone knows what to do or say.

The use of language alludes to the commonality of the group. An outlying example is an indigenous tribe in South America, where they shake their heads for 'yes' and nod their heads for 'no.'

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6 hours ago, Kaya said:
8 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Cultural issues cannot be changed by logic, since they are not based on logic most of the time. They can only be changed when you have a 'critical mass' of affected people who decide they are going to 'rise up' and change the culture.

Couldn't have said it better. I guess it might take a generation or two before the community realises how devastating it is for them to block their daughters from marriage until early 30s and that this pushes many to zina and other sins. It has to affect a critical mass of people first unfortunately. How hard people learn... 

A couple of years ago, there was reported socio-political research that determined that the 'tipping point' for change is 10% of a population.

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1 hour ago, Guest zzzzzzz!Monad said:

the only dilemma is that the males in question grew up too late in recognizing the skills needed in acquiring a wife. The fault lies in how it was preached, as in, just pray to God and he shall deliver while forcing the said males not to interact with females, thus positioning them behind the queue.

I do agree with this.

1 hour ago, Guest zzzzzzz!Monad said:

interaction with religious females in a particular environment.

What are those environment? the only way I see something like this happening is some female relative doing the interaction for you.

1 hour ago, Guest zzzzzzz!Monad said:

Now if you dont have money then not even a non-muslim female will consider you.

That's not true.

33 minutes ago, starlight said:

Honest question: Is it really this difficult to get married in real life nowadays or is it just SCers who have been blessed with special spouse repelling traits? In real life I see people getting married left, right and centre. 

For those who were raised in the west and are looking for permanent marriage with muslim sister this can very difficult unless you choose to marry within your family. People in west have different prioritize than those in the east. Most people wait to get married until they have got their degree and have good job, by that time shaytan in majority of the times have mislead the youths into haram.

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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24 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

What are those environment? the only way I see something like this happening is some female relative doing the interaction for you.

teach or volunteer at your local sunday school? - plenty of muslim charities that require volunteers? - help out at your mosque? -  Plenty of muslim events.

Google it, but I wrote earlier. Bring value and do not think heh, cause I am a muslim man, believe in God, pray and fast , therefore I deserve her. See the conditions per islam.

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1 hour ago, Guest 0o!Monad said:

teach or volunteer at your local sunday school? - plenty of muslim charities that require volunteers? - help out at your mosque? -  Plenty of muslim events.

Google it, but I wrote earlier. Bring value and do not think heh, cause I am a muslim man, believe in God, pray and fast , therefore I deserve her. See the conditions per islam.

I feel like people are mixing apples with oranges in this thread. If you read my 1st and 3rd post you would understand what my concerns are. I did however already receive good replies from other brothers.

This is not a thread about how to get married. And even if it was you make it sound very simple brother. That's not how it works. How many local sunday schools, charities, mosques have you joined? how many of them got you married?

I received this reply to my concerns. which I am grateful for and hope others can benefit from as well.

On 7/4/2020 at 3:41 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Brother, I was in the exact same situation as you before I did my zawaj tul nikah. I had the same concerns. 

First, you should say 'Almanduillah' that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has arranged things for you so that you have this need fulfilled and don't have to go toward haram. 

Second, you should look for the good in the lady that you are with. I know this is difficult, especially when you see her doing things that violate Islam. But,for example when she cooks for you or does something out of the way that she doesn't have to do, you should say thank you for that to her. Also. let he know that she is special to you and you appreciate her. In other words be first thankful to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), who is the source of all happiness, then be thankful to your wife for the things she does to help you. As Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Holy Quran, 'Be thankful and I will give you more'. This works not only if you are thankful to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but also if you are thankful and nice to your wife, she will then change toward you and will be more willing to listen to you when you talk to her about religion. As I said before, your duty toward your wife, regarding Amr Bil Maroof.... is the same and no different as it is regarding anyone else. You should attempt to steer her toward the Maroof and away from the Munkhar in the way that is possible for you and the way you think will be effective. If she then disregards what you say, and goes out and does what she does, you are not responsible for this, nor should you feel guilty about it, since you did what you are required to do by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

At the same time, a big part of Amr bil Maroof... is to do it in a way that is most effective, given your own abilities and talents. If a person sees you as someone who is not following the religion yourself, or someone who treats them rudely and with disrespect, and is not thankful for the ways that they benefit you and help you, they will definitely not listen to anything you have to say regarding religion. Because to them, you are the religion (this is before they have knowledge about it that is independent of you) . They may pretend they are listening, to get some benefit from you, but in fact they are not taking it 'to heart'. But if you are caring and kind toward them, thank them, and do what you can to help them in their life and practice the religion yourself, it is only at that point that you can hope to have any sort of effect on them, as far as Amr Bil Maroof.... But if you can do that, you will definitely have an effect on them in a positive way. Noone can 'make' someone muslim, only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can do that, and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has made this contingent on when the person actually wants to be guided. You have no way of knowing whether they want to be guided toward the truth, because this is entirely inside someones heart and soul and is not accessible to anyone else besides that person and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). You can't 'make' someone muslim, but you can influence them in that direction thru good actions, which is what Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) did and also the Imams of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). Most of their 'preaching' was thru their actions. 

 

 

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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Ahhh the marriage dilemma, it sure as heck is a dilemma alright. 

@AkhiraisReal thank you for starting this thread, I really enjoyed reading the posts here.

On 7/4/2020 at 11:29 AM, Kaya said:

 Do you guys agree with this or am I talking crazy? 

I agree with a lot of what you have say but bro, idk, it just doesn't happen much sadly :( . A lot of people are just content with sinning rather than halal options. 

19 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

The core issue here is the assumption that one can only marry later in life. There is in reality no good reason why we can't marry soon after becoming baligh (as men). In fact a lot of western couples (non muslim) are already with their life partner from their teens. Of course they often end up marrying much later, which is problematic, but the relationship starts quite early in life.

Our duty as muslimeen is to marry at a young age in order to protect ourselves from sin, in order to work together with our spouse to get closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and for those of us who are married and parents we should facilitate this for our children. 

This is the solution. 

From the point of view which I see to be the orthodox religious point of view, I agree with what you say. This would be amazing for youth and for society overall on many levels. 

But I will be honest, when it comes to "action", many of us freeze or just don't even bother because we end up succumbing to the status quo. We end up feeling "ineligible" or inadequate to pursue early marriage. I guess we fear humiliation/rejection, and an unhappy potential wife. It becomes like a "you beat them or join them" sort of situation, but here we quickly accept defeat and looking at our actions, we join them, before attempting to seriously try anything. 

Also, while you and I can at least agree on what you say here, a lot of the people in many of the societies in which we live in, the societies we'll be probably first be looking into to find a potential spouse, they lack this thinking. Unfortuantely, an alarmingly high number of Muslims of the West nowadays, their actions show that they don't even have a real Islamic outlook towards life to begin with, and even among those who appear to do or appear to be "practicing", a lot of them have adopted this modern secular feel-good version of Islam. Not saying I am someone or know something myself, but it's really obvious, we can all open up the books and then look around us to see if violations are happening on a large scale. They are. 

(This message sent late. Haven't read many of the newer messages above.)

Edited by AStruggler

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11 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

This is not a logical issue or an Islamic issue, it is a cultural issue. Cultural issues cannot be changed by logic, since they are not based on logic most of the time. They can only be changed when you have a 'critical mass' of affected people who decide they are going to 'rise up' and change the culture.

SubhanAllah brother, I don't think I've ever walked away from reading a post of yours without "Wow-ing". Your thoughts are always bang on, and manifest the spirit of the Islam I see expressed in the books, like always! 

Also btw, I came across your 3-part video series based on the book, The Revealer, The Messenger, The Message by Shaheed Sadr. Great work and channel, was nice to watch after reading!

Edited by AStruggler

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On 7/4/2020 at 9:10 AM, Abu Hadi said:

most, if not all muslim men in the West choose this option for a mutah relationship

In the West, yes. And in Iraq, Iran yes. But in South Asia (Pakistan, India) mutah is practically impossible. There is no way that a young man in Pakistan for example can ever even think about doing mutah because there is absolutely no method, no way, no means to achieve this. It will require nothing less than a miracle for a man there to be able to do mutah. So, Muslim men in the West should thank Allah that He has given them the opportunity to do mutah, whereas this opportunity isn't available to Muslim men in other parts of the world. 

On 7/4/2020 at 7:36 AM, Abu Hadi said:

If this desire were not in us, almost noone would seek out marriage, because from a rational point of view, purely rational excluding religion, marriage is a very risky and dangerous activity.

Yes. Another way to say this can be that because marriage comes with so many difficulties, hardships, risks, burdens and tests , where a person is required to show great deal of patience, so Allah in His mercy has counter-balanced that by giving married people the gift of sexual pleasure. If He had wanted He could have made sexual act something which gave no pleasure at all. For example, the urge to urinate and pass stools is also a natural human desire, but Allah has not put pleasure in these actions. But the urge to release semen is something which He has made extremely pleasurable to the extent that nothing in this life gives more pleasure than this. Yet at the same time, Allah has made  his eternal law that ONLY and ONLY and ONLY those people who agree to bare the burdens of marriage (nikah or mutah) will be allowed to get this pleasure. 

This means that an unmarried person has no right or justification or reason or any excuse at all to fulfill his sexual desire in any way at all because he does not meet the minimum requirements by which this pleasure becomes allowed. The moment one agrees to carry the burden of marriage on his shoulder (by doing nikah or mutah), Allah compensates him by making sexual pleasure halal. But as long as the person does not agree to face the challenges of marriage, he cannot demand or expect to get any sexual pleasure. This is something which is an exclusive, exclusive reward for only and only those people who have agreed to face the big challenges that come with marriage. 

When Imam Ali as. was asked why Prophet Isa as. did not get married, he replied that Isa as. was not meant to be tested by a wife. This shows that a wife is a test, and sexual pleasure is a compensation for those who undergo this test, and this compensation is so great, that men desire to get married to get this compensation regardless of how difficult the test will be. This is a blessing of Allah, in a way to compel men, force men to get married - otherwise, people would not get married because they would find it as difficult as doing jihad. Perhaps that's also why the Prophet s. said that when a man goes into his wife, it is as if he is going into Jihad (not word by word). 

In summary, sexual pleasure is not designed for unmarried people who are free from the responsibility of marriage. 

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2 hours ago, Anonymous-Male said:

But in South Asia (Pakistan, India) mutah is practically impossible. There is no way that a young man in Pakistan for example can ever even think about doing mutah because there is absolutely no method, no way, no means to achieve this. It will require nothing less than a miracle for a man there to be able to do mutah. So, Muslim men in the West should thank Allah that He has given them the opportunity to do mutah, whereas this opportunity isn't available to Muslim men in other parts of the world. 

Those two countries are also on the top list of the ones with most porn searches. And if I am not mistaken, those countries also have issues with a lot of young men suffering from erectile dysfunction. There's data on this, but I wouldn't suggest looking for it since it can link you to those inappropriate sites.

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On 7/5/2020 at 2:34 PM, Guest zzzzzzz!Monad said:

 

Thus the issue of being single is due to monetary problems and youth. No one is going to help you because everyone has their own problems in life. Even one were to find someone to assist you, as in offer their daughter or son, while the opposition does not have any monetary value, what they bet is on the characteristics of the individuals.

 

Money is part of the problem. Youth is not a problem in itself, maybe being mentally / emotionally immature is another part of the problem. This is not a function of age as much a function of how much that person had to 'figure things out for themselves' and 'make it on their own', while relying on Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I have met brothers in their 20s who are much more mature in this regard than some brothers in their 50s who have been handed everything in life and have never had to struggle and figure things out for themselves. 

It is not ShiaChat 'weirdos' who are the only ones who can't get married. ShiaChat is a reflection of what is going on in the Shia communities around the world, particularly those in US, Canada, UK, Australia (where English is the main language). These are large communities with hundreds of thousands or millions of youth. Not all are in this situation but I suspect there are many thousands that are. Most don't come here to ShiaChat to talk about it (or complain about it). I actually worry less about the ones here who can articulate exactly what the issue is. Because knowing what the problem is, actually is, means your at least half way to the solution. For each one that posts here, there are hundreds more out there like them but can't articulate what the issue is. 

But back to the subject. The main problem is cultural, not emotional or financial. The main problem is that in most (all that I am familiar with but there may be one that is not like this) communities there is one acceptable path to marriage. The sister stays in her house, gets several college degrees while keeping herself away from haram for years maybe decades and waits for her parents to find her someone. The man is required to finish several college degrees and save up tens of thousands of dollars to get married and buy a house etc. This might take years, decades, or never happen. But until those requirements are fulfilled, he is considered not eligible for marriage, by the community (not by Islam). This is like a 'one size fits all' solution for marriage when most people are not that size. Imagine walking into a clothing store and the only size they had was medium. While alot of people are medium, there are alot that are also small or large or x large.

If you happen to be a medium, you will get extremely happy, like 'Wow, a whole store full of cloths and their all my size ! Who could ever complain about this ! They must be weirdos', and if you are like most people, the thought will never cross your mind, 'Yeah that's nice but not everyone is a medium. I wonder how those other people find cloths?'. But in that store, that would mean they have to go without cloths or try to force themselves into cloths that don't fit. Imagine if we had a community of brothers and sisters walking around in cloths that are either too big or too small. Right away, people would see the solution and force the stores to start selling different sizes. Islam is like the store that has every size, but you have people that are pulling all the sizes , except medium, off the shelf and hiding them. To me, the consequences are as obvious as if we had a community walking around with cloths that don't fit, except the issue is actually much more serious than that, because it involves people losing their akhira because of getting involved in haram, and this could be avoided. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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On 7/5/2020 at 1:36 PM, AkhiraisReal said:

 

 

I know this example might not be fair, however, if you could choose between a brand new Ferrari and a used Ferrari, which one would you choose? Majority of men want virgin woman for permanent marriage. As for woman I don't know if they would prefer the same.

This might seem hypocritical as I am both for mutah but then also say that I would prefer a virgin muslim sister for permanent marriage. I wouldn't mind doing mutah with a muslim sister with the intention of turning it to permanent marriage, but then there is that chance that it won't turn that way. And most likely the girls chance of getting permanent marriage will be reduced after having that mutah.

So I personally believe sisters should be careful with mutah, If they want to get married they should talk to their parents for permanent marriage. Thats my personal view, if there is backup islamically for this I don't know.

 

I agree with this brother. Mutah could also be used in a way were the couples get to know each other for permanent marriage.

The word itself basically means pleasure marriage if i am not mistaken. Meaning that the purpose of mutah is basically sex. I have heard you can put conditions on a mutah contract such as no intimicay, but I don't how if that's allowed in mutah contract. Because basically she's your wife, and your wife is to give you sex.

Let's go one by one. You brought up good points that need to be discussed.

First, I have heard the analogy made to a new car vs used car, but IMHO, this is not a good analogy. A wife is a creation of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that is fundamentally different. She has a 'Ruh', a spirit as well as a jism (body). A car is only a jism (body) it has no 'ruh' or soul. It is a man made object that is utilitarian in value on (a car gets you from one place to another, that is it's only purpose). So when you are marrying, you are doing 'zawaj', the meaning of 'zawaj' is to join together so that there is a union of the two beings. This isn't just a sexual union, although that is part of it, but 'zawj' comes from the word 'zawaj' which means pair it also means partner. So it is a joining on a much more spiritual and fundamental level. When you get in a car, you go into it, and get out of it. There is no 'zawaj' no joining between you and the car, because a car is incapable of doing 'zawaj' with you since you have a 'ruh', a spirit and the car doesn't. It is a mechanical device. 

So in the process of 'zawaj', the joining of the 'ruh' or spirits is the fundamental aspect of the relationship that makes it different from all other relationships that you might have, even relationships with other people. So if you study hadith on this, what you come away with, the 'takeaway' as they say in the US, is that the quality of this 'zawaj' or joining is affected by certain things, and not by other things. The things that affect it are first and foremost the level of Iman and Taqwa of the two spouses. That is why we are advised to marry only those with a certain degree of Iman and Taqwa. Amoung the things that do not affect the quality of the relationship is physical virginity. If that were the case, then Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) would only have married virgins. We know that most of the women he married were previously married. Also, many of the Imams of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) married women who were previously married. They married women who were physically virgins also. But in doing that, they were showing us that physical virginity is not something that is important as far as choosing which women to marry. 

What is discouraged for the mumin is marrying a women who has had previously sexual or intimate relationships with men that were not marriage, i.e. zina, and the women has not repented from these actions. Also women who have had these relationships and lie and cover them up. That is because this shows a lack of Iman and Taqwa (and a lack of honesty)  in the women, because she is going against what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said, as far as marriage. This shows a lack of respect for the Hudud (the limits) set by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If a women treats the Hudud with disrespect, and these are from her Creator(s.w.a), what chance does the husband have of being respected by the same women who disrespects Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) ? If she will disrespect her Creator(s.w.a), she will have no problem disrespecting her husband. This is not because of her lack of physical virginity, but because of her lack of Iman and Taqwa that we are discouraged from marrying these types of women. 

So to have this preference (for marrying a virgin) is fine, but don't let this stand in the way to the point that you will only consider a women for marriage if she has this one quality, which is not considered very important by Rasouallah(p.b.u.h) or Imams((عليه السلام)). If you find a women with Iman and Taqwa, and you have at least a degree of physical attraction toward her, then marry her, whether she is a virgin or not. That is because finding a women who is a virgin is not that rare, but finding a women with Iman and Taqwa is very rare. 

For the last point, I agree, and I have said previously that a muslima should be careful, and if she is a virgin and living with her parents, she should do alot of thinking and consideration before she engages in mutah. Because although the above is cultural taboo, it still will have an affect on her future, at least in the present time. She needs to weigh the options of engaging in this, the costs and benefits to her over the short term and long term. This type of knowledge is something only she has. 

 

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On 7/7/2020 at 4:07 PM, Abu Hadi said:

to have this preference (for marrying a virgin) is fine, but don't let this stand in the way to the point that you will only consider a women for marriage if she has this one quality, which is not considered very important by Rasouallah

I think one reason why men prefer virgins is ego. It is not easy for every man to accept that his wife was previously some other man's wife. This thought that one's wife used to be intimate with some other man in her prior marriage may be very difficult to accept for some men. It is the same as how difficult it is for a woman to share her husband with his other wives. She would know that she is not his only love and this can be difficult to digest and accept and come to terms with. It breaks ego and tells you that no matter how close a couple may be, they are not meant solely for each other. The husband can have multiple wives and the woman too can get married to other men after divorce or after death of husband. We are all potentially able to make multiple life partners, according to what life throws at us, and this crushes and shatters the spouse's ego. This ego is something which Allah doesn't like in men, hence he has allowed and in some cases encouraged multiple, multiple life partners, so that any one individual does not develop an ego that his or her life partner is only for them, rather one has to accept that he/she may have to share their spouse with other potential suitors. So you may love your wife or husband, but with the acknowledgement that if need arises, your spouse will go on to make new partners, and one should have his ego reduced to such a low level in this, that you feel no sense of pride that your spouse is only for you and not for others. 

Edited by Anonymous-Male

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