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A_KazmiSayyid313

Can Wali/awliya be in these 3 people

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can a wali shave his beard and still be a wali? (I thik he can)

Can a wali out of respect or to be safe to not make a mistake say hazrat to abu bakr, omar, uthman? but be safe yet he does not actually love them but still be a wali I think he can

So yeah please answer. some proof would be nice just wanna know please. coz surely 85% of the ummah (u know what i mean) can't be ruled out from being a wali coz they hazrat to the 3 caliphs, or shave their beard :OR they pray on carpet. so how is all 85% of muslims their prayer is invalid? I don't get that

Edited by A_KazmiSayyid313

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2 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Salaam, 

Your question is not very clear. If you mean wali as someone divinely appointed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) then there are only 14.

No I mean like wali hak allah like those people who can become a wali (friend of God) by their actions can they do above things and still become a wali ??

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3 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Salaam, 

Your question is not very clear. If you mean wali as someone divinely appointed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) then there are only 14.

They are way more than 14 lol. There’s 124000 prophets.

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

They are way more than 14 lol. There’s 124000 prophets.

yes but I mean the other walis like lal shabaaz qalander or shear shah suri or ayatullah Khamenei((رضي الله عنه)) or Imam Khomaini ((رضي الله عنه)) can you be a wali like them and do the 3 things above and still be a wali???

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7 minutes ago, 786:) said:

They are way more than 14 lol. There’s 124000 prophets.

You are right. But we generally talk about the Shariat we follow so there's 14 in Prophet Mohammad's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) shariah. 

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8 minutes ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

yes but I mean the other walis like lal shabaaz qalander or shear shah suri or ayatullah Khamenei((رضي الله عنه)) or Imam Khomaini ((رضي الله عنه)) can you be a wali like them and do the 3 things above and still be a wali???

ARE U EVEN PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M SAYING BRO?? ANSWER PLEASE

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25 minutes ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

No I mean like wali hak allah like those people who can become a wali (friend of God) by their actions can they do above things and still become a wali ??

In general terms, anyone with their correct beliefs and piety can become friend (wali) of God. 

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18 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

In general terms, anyone with their correct beliefs and piety can become friend (wali) of God. 

even if they shave their beard, pray on a carpet and not a natrual surface and and say hazrat to sahaba

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11 minutes ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

even if they shave their beard, pray on a carpet and not a natrual surface and and say hazrat to sahaba

Shaving beard is a sin and so are other things. These actions would prevent piety. 

والله اعلم 

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1 hour ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

No I mean like wali hak allah like those people who can become a wali (friend of God) by their actions can they do above things and still become a wali ??

I have not encountered any wali but yes, a wali is muqalid of anbiya and can do acts just for being safe just as he may not insult belief of people but rather take a rational approach like Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) when he denied heavenly bodies by rational arguments. He may also adopt Taqqiyah to safeguard his dear ones. So, it depends in what situation is he in!

By the way, have you found any wali? Tell me in inbox, I want to talk to him desperately and ask my questions. 

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I once saw Ayotullah Seestani but the guard was pushing me, was not letting me hug him. And, I didnt have honor to meet Ayotullah khamnei but met Ayotullah Aqeel ul Gharvi. Masha-Allah, I love him so much and eager to meet him. By the way, a Wali in Pakistan recently left this world to meet Ahlebait (عليه السلام). His name was Allama Talib Johri. You can learn from him, walis are not infallible so they may do some little wrongs perhaps like smoking or eating paan if you what paan is. There are varying degrees in Walis like Hazrat Salman (عليه السلام) and Hazrat Abu Zar (عليه السلام) but as far as I know they detest major sins and are humble that's why Allah (عزّ وجلّ) hears them, teach them and forgives their small faults and people call them Walis but they are afraid of saying anything about them. 

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6 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

can a wali shave his beard and still be a wali? (I thik he can)

Can a wali out of respect or to be safe to not make a mistake say hazrat to abu bakr, omar, uthman? but be safe yet he does not actually love them but still be a wali I think he can

So yeah please answer. some proof would be nice just wanna know please. coz surely 85% of the ummah (u know what i mean) can't be ruled out from being a wali coz they hazrat to the 3 caliphs, or shave their beard :OR they pray on carpet. so how is all 85% of muslims their prayer is invalid? I don't get that

May be I didnt get your question. You mean how can 85% of muslims unaware of religious teachings be wrong? Is that what you mean?

No one can judge creation, there can be many good souls among them unaware so for them Imam Ali says:"Every one be judged according to his intellect".

Walis cant be ignorant but who knows there is one simple soul who neither harms others nor do bad deeds and improves it day by day, and Allah (عزّ وجلّ) loves him like he loved saints. Keys to heart are with Allah. 

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You are using wali and Awliya  interchangeably. No they aren’t out guardians nor are they the friends of Allah I.e the three caliphs. 

17 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

can a wali shave his beard and still be a wali? (I thik he can)

According to ayatollah kamal al-Haydari a person is allowed to style his beard how ever he wants but not permitted to go clean shave. Ayatollah fadilullah says you are allowed to go clean shave. 

 

17 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

Can a wali out of respect or to be safe to not make a mistake say hazrat

No. No wali of Allah says Hazrat to cowards. 

 

17 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

so how is all 85% of muslims their prayer is invalid? I don't get that

They are technically invalid, many of our narrations show that their salah is in vain. 

 

Edited by THREE1THREE

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I don't really see the point of trying to categorize fallible human beings in this manner. If you want the definition of a 'wali' refer to Surah Ma'ida verse 55. 

The ambiya (عليه السلام) and ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) are our examples and references. Beyond that I don't see the relevance of trying to attribute wilayah to people who aren't infallible guides to begin with. 

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2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

I don't really see the point of trying to categorize fallible human beings in this manner. If you want the definition of a 'wali' refer to Surah Ma'ida verse 55. 

The ambiya (عليه السلام) and ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) are our examples and references. Beyond that I don't see the relevance of trying to attribute wilayah to people who aren't infallible guides to begin with. 

You said truth brother. May be he meant by Wali, a person being blessed with the help of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and Ahlebait (عليه السلام). A man of piety and good moral character whose prayers we think had greater chance of acceptance.

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There are Prophets and Imams,both divinely appointed according to fiqh jafariya). After them I don't see why anyone would want to put any labels on themselves. One's relationship with their Creator is something personal and not defined by titles. 

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Guest Ali

I had the honour of meeting Allamah Talib Johri, May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) give him highest stations in Barzakh and Jannat. Ameen.


I also don’t keep a beard so when I saw him with a short/ no beard, I could not hold back posing this question to him.

Of course, I didn’t say as why he didn’t keep a beard, but explained my difficulty in keeping a beard. This meeting happened almost 11 years back so I don’t remember word by word. But I clearly remember, Allama didn’t say you should keep a beard otherwise it is a sin. He said try to other good things as much as possible.

In my opinion, Allama Talib Johri was one of very highly read scholars.  So, I am sure he may not be convinced about the necessity of beard as he didn’t keep one.  But he may not have said it openly as he may not have liked to contradict the more popular verdict, which necessitates keeping a beard. 

I shared this just for everyone’s information. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us to the right path. 

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2 hours ago, Guest Ali said:

I had the honour of meeting Allamah Talib Johri, May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) give him highest stations in Barzakh and Jannat. Ameen.


I also don’t keep a beard so when I saw him with a short/ no beard, I could not hold back posing this question to him.

Of course, I didn’t say as why he didn’t keep a beard, but explained my difficulty in keeping a beard. This meeting happened almost 11 years back so I don’t remember word by word. But I clearly remember, Allama didn’t say you should keep a beard otherwise it is a sin. He said try to other good things as much as possible.

In my opinion, Allama Talib Johri was one of very highly read scholars.  So, I am sure he may not be convinced about the necessity of beard as he didn’t keep one.  But he may not have said it openly as he may not have liked to contradict the more popular verdict, which necessitates keeping a beard. 

I shared this just for everyone’s information. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us to the right path. 

An Allama more learned then most Maraja and and ayatullah, hmmm nope doesn't add up, anyway shaving is not Major sin, it's NOT THE MOST HARAM THING SOME THINGS ARE MORE HARAM THEN OTHERS AND SHAVING IS LESS HARAM THEN PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING ELSE

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1 hour ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

An Allama more learned then most Maraja and and ayatullah, hmmm nope doesn't add up, anyway shaving is not Major sin, it's NOT THE MOST HARAM THING SOME THINGS ARE MORE HARAM THEN OTHERS AND SHAVING IS LESS HARAM THEN PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING ELSE

From a so-called 'revisionist' Shi'a point of view, I believe that one of the main issues is that this was a non-issue for the early scholars. People like Saduq, Mufid, al-Murtadha, al-Tusi and others didn't have this verdict about it being haram so those who say that it is haram to shave the beard can't claim any kind of consensus on the matter from a historical point of view.

That isn't to say that it is isn't sunna, or that in the context of being a major scholar in the public eye it probably wouldn't be recommended keep it short, just that it isn't religiously forbidden.

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1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

From a so-called 'revisionist' Shi'a point of view, I believe that one of the main issues is that this was a non-issue for the early scholars. People like Saduq, Mufid, al-Murtadha, al-Tusi and others didn't have this verdict about it being haram so those who say that it is haram to shave the beard can't claim any kind of consensus on the matter from a historical point of view.

That isn't to say that it is isn't sunna, or that in the context of being a major scholar in the public eye it probably wouldn't be recommended keep it short, just that it isn't religiously forbidden.

I haven't looked into this much but I'm wondering if clean shaving was even a thing during the days of the early scholars? Sometimes their lack of expression on an issue might be due to it not being a phenomenon of their times. 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

I haven't looked into this much but I'm wondering if clean shaving was even a thing during the days of the early scholars? Sometimes their lack of expression on an issue might be due to it not being a phenomenon of their times. 

Perhaps, it would be interesting to know.

Apparently the Sunnis had the fatwa that shaving was forbidden from the 3rd century hijri.

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

I haven't looked into this much but I'm wondering if clean shaving was even a thing during the days of the early scholars? Sometimes their lack of expression on an issue might be due to it not being a phenomenon of their times. 

Yes I agree 

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OMG approaching 90 posts yay BUT MY ISSUE IS THAT ALL THE 85% OF PRAYER IS INVALID HOW CAN THIS BE THEY BASICALLY NEVER PRAYED THEIR WHOLE LIFE AND ARE SINCERE THINK ABOUT IT MAKES NO SENSE BRUH

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9 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

OMG approaching 90 posts yay BUT MY ISSUE IS THAT ALL THE 85% OF PRAYER IS INVALID HOW CAN THIS BE THEY BASICALLY NEVER PRAYED THEIR WHOLE LIFE AND ARE SINCERE THINK ABOUT IT MAKES NO SENSE BRUH

Brother stop it please. I was hesitating to lock this thread. Bringing forward names of people and discussing whether they shaved or not is not really appropriate, even less so when the person isn't even alive. Making statements about whose prayer is accepted and not is also inappropriate.

If these kinds of discussions continue then the thread will be locked. 

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6 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Brother stop it please. I was hesitating to lock this thread. Bringing forward names of people and discussing whether they shaved or not is not really appropriate, even less so when the person isn't even alive. Making statements about whose prayer is accepted and not is also inappropriate.

If these kinds of discussions continue then the thread will be locked. 

I think the guy is a troll, Kazmi is a Pakistani spelling, but sayyid isn't (they spell it syed) you can never be sure but I don't think that this person is sincere.

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3 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I think the guy is a troll, Kazmi is a Pakistani spelling, but sayyid isn't (they spell it syed) you can never be sure but I don't think that this person is sincere.

I apologise brother  I am Pakistani and British but I prefer the Sayyid instead of syed and yes I am Kazmi Sayyid 

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16 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Question is who gives the title of wali. Or how does one acquire it. 

Imam Ali (ASWS) has the office of wilayah given to him (ASWS) By Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) So basically  Ali ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) decides who gets to become a wali and then gives them wilayat if he wants to that is

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