Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
A_KazmiSayyid313

Apparent killing of ayatullahs for opposing ali khamenei

Rate this topic

Killing opposers of government  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think that ali khamenei killed people for opposing his government do you think it's righ?

    • I do think it happened and it's not right
      4
    • I do not think it happened and it's not right
      4
    • It's right and it did happen
      0
    • It's not right and did not happen
      5


Recommended Posts

Title says it all did it happen why how is it right if not then what happend to reza sadr, and ayatullah Hasan Tabtatei Qomi?? also how is wali e faqih chosen???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't heard anything about this at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so even house arrest is wrong for expression of speech does khamenei know about these arrests why does he do it???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

so even house arrest is wrong for expression of speech does khamenei know about these arrests why does he do it???

If Iran sees that these scholars expressing their opinions against the Iran regime will cause public rebellions and confusing among the people and people could revolt and cause havoc and instability to Iran, in other words fitnah, then yes such a scholars should be put to house arrest. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) have established peace in Iran and have choose them to establish and enjoy Islamic laws, doing harm to such a peace will be very serious matter.

This expression of speech would be harmful if it result only bad outcome.

As for killing, you need to present very clear evidence.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

then yes such a scholars should be put to house arrest.

So you agree with the house arrest? 

10 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

ayatullah Hasan Tabtatei Qomi?

He was under house arrest for about 25 years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:


In such a situation yes.
 

What situation? 

House arrest spanning decades under the pretext of 'causing fitnah' always leaves me with a bad taste because it  makes me thinks of the Abbasid Caliph who put Imam al-Askari under house arrest for years. He feared if he was allowed to meet people it will make the people turn against him. Imam Zamana(عليه السلام) was born while his parents were under house arrest.

These few months of lockdown, not house arrest, just limited mobility is taking an emotional toll on people I can't even imagine what 25 years under house arrest would be like. 

I am not aware of the Islamic laws about such situations.I just hope nothing is being done that goes against islam. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, starlight said:

What situation? 

House arrest spanning decades under the pretext of 'causing fitnah' always leaves me with a bad taste because it  makes me thinks of the Abbasid Caliph who put Imam al-Askari under house arrest for years. He feared if he was allowed to meet people it will make the people turn against him. Imam Zamana(عليه السلام) was born while his parents were under house arrest.

These few months of lockdown, not house arrest, just limited mobility is taking an emotional toll on people I can't even imagine what 25 years under house arrest would be like. 

I am not aware of the Islamic laws about such situations.I just hope nothing is being done that goes against islam. 

This situtation: public rebellions and confusing among the people and people could revolt and cause havoc and instability to Iran.

As for the Abbasid Caliph, the situation is very different of what you are trying to compare. How can we compare a bad government with good government and a Scholar house arrest with Imam (عليه السلام) house arrest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, A_KazmiSayyid313 said:

so even house arrest is wrong for expression of speech does khamenei know about these arrests why does he do it???

Sayed Khamenei wasn't the leader at the time. 

Anyway, are we discussing murder or house arrest?

Please decide so that we can rename or lock the thread accordingly. 

If you have made false accusations please retract them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

How can we compare a bad government with good government and a Scholar house arrest with Imam (عليه السلام) house arrest?

Both parties are Muslims that's how.

Lots of Sunni Muslims think highly of Abbasids Caliphs and their governments. Anyway...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, starlight said:

Both parties are Muslims that's how.

Lots of Sunni Muslims think highly of Abbasids Caliphs and their governments. Anyway...

Yes thats right... there is no difference between the government of seyyed Khamenei and the government of Harun al rashid(la). What a nice, intellectual and reasonable point you have made, give yourself a pat on the back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Yes thats right... there is no difference between the government of seyyed Khamenei and the government of Harun al rashid(la). What a nice, intellectual and reasonable point you have made, give yourself a pat on the back.

I will just ignore you as I have done for past many years but for now, the Caliphs during the time of Imam al-Askari were al-Mu'tazz and al-Mutamid not Harun.

It my right,rather my duty to find out if house arrest for life is even an Islamic punishment or not. Imam Ali (as)'s short regime was rife with civil unrest but we find no accounts of life imprisonments or house arrests. Jammal,Siffeen and Nahrwaan were all fought after the other parties started offense. None of our Imams created conflict with other Muslims over positions even though they knew there wasn't anyone better to lead the Muslims.

So yes,I will give myself a pat on the back for not being ready to blindly follow anyone besides an Imam (عليه السلام). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, starlight said:

So yes,I will give myself a pat on the back for not being ready to blindly follow anyone besides an Imam (عليه السلام). 

While your giving yourself pats, try learning the difference between a government and a regime as well ms doctor.

4 hours ago, starlight said:

Imam Ali (as)'s short regime

That's embarrassing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

While your giving yourself pats, try learning the difference between a government and a regime as well ms doctor.

That's embarrassing.

What do you think the difference is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

While your giving yourself pats, try learning the difference between a government and a regime as well ms doctor.

I guess this is the 'nice, reasonable and intellectual point' to be made after being corrected on a historical fact. Go ahead and 'give yourself a pat on the back' for such a cheap shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare

Apparently, Muslims have been impressed with Western idea of Free Speech. Little do these wannbe and pleaseplease accept us as equals we do follow you and like you know. That free speech is a fallacy( unless all of you have been living under a cave for last few years and have not kept up with the world events. 

Free Speech is usually understood at a very superficial level, or let's say grade one level. Beyond that, its my way or the highway. We allow what are the parameters of your apparently free speech content and extent, the limits you can't cross. So, people are just giddy feeling a we are free to say anything. Yes as long as its not a National security, Economic, Treasury, Incometax, Corporate matter- Social matters please destroy yourself and your family structure so the economy can grow a the expense of your disintegration of your God centric values system and your families. Capitalism thrives on your individualism. 

Someday, Muslims will realize this and the wild west mentality will go away. I doubt it, as Muslims are just to eager to impress the western world that look we allow free speech without understanding the consequences and the web of deception that covers the free speech agenda. 

Free Speech/Expression is only allowed in non Economic centric disciplines because it (indivilisim/rebellion/disintegration of Family) benefits  the Economy- in the west.  So, its not something we can allow in God centric society with out proper limits and standards to minimize the impact of lies/deception/doubt creation which impacts the overall environment of a society. As the elements with negative agenda are very have no morals/ethical or standards they will utilize any and all means to achieve the end. We need to have a cautions approach with proper guideline to protect the public as the goals is the integration of God centric values, and family structure and not individualistic and rebel attitude which does not benefit this system. Its and elixir to the economic centric system, but here its poisonous and destructive - case and point this thread- no merits-speculation-creating doubts- even if these were addressed- lasting impact or subconscious impact is irreversible. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

I guess this is the 'nice, reasonable and intellectual point' to be made after being corrected on a historical fact. Go ahead and 'give yourself a pat on the back' for such a cheap shot.

I was being sarcastic when I said "nice, reasonable and intellectul point".

And I do not intend on engaging in discussion with her thus dont take my lack of repsonse as me being "corrected". If we were to talk about the things that the government of amir ul mumineen(عليه السلام) was accused of, then I can assure you that imprisonment/house arrest of people is the least of the accusations. Do people usually start wars against the ruler without making accusations first?

And I am not in the business of giving myself pats on the back. I am in no need of it, your opinion of me, your support for me or lack of support does not change my opinions.

If anyone wants to make ridiculous comparison such as saying the seyyed Khamenei's rulership is equal to that of the abbasids and that the shias who support seyyed are like the sunnis who liked the abbasids, then when its stated how ridiculous that is, try to segway what they originally said into "it's a WF thing" and I am a righteous muslim for saying it, then sorry, I believe in equality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only say God knows best. But that's why I dont want and never interested to mix religion and politics as it is too confusing, particulary for the converts who just sincerely seek to close to Allah and close his ears about what happened in Iran, Middle East.

I respect my muslim brothers and sister in Iran or another countries where they want to have Mullahs, Ayatollahs as the leader. But this is not a system that can work in a country where I live. As long as the secular system guarantee my freedom to practice the teaching of Quran and Ahlulbayt, then this is more enough. 

And from my perspective, I always choose to learn from humble scholars who are knowledgeable, scholars who are istiqamah to spread the teaching Islam in the western world, those who are not also as a politician. Again, I respect your choice and all our scholars, but to mix my ibadat with politic is too confusing for me. It's like I learn my religion from CNN! And without value that we learn in religion, how can we separate truth and false in this politics? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

If anyone wants to make ridiculous comparison such as saying the seyyed Khamenei's rulership is equal to that of the abbasids and that the shias

Not talking about other aspects but as far as this is concerned the similarities are undeniable.

Both Muslims, followers of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

Both leaders of state.

Both put their opponents or supposed opponents[edit: opponents also muslims]under years of house arrest, something never done by Imams (عليه السلام) for example Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never put Talha or Zubayr under house arrest even though they created one fitnah for him after another. Infact Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was so merciful he allowed Zubayr to walk away from the battlefield of Jammal. 

We have to emulate Ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) Our gold standard is Ahlulbayt(عليه السلام)

 

7 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

While your giving yourself pats, try learning the difference between a government and a regime as well ms doctor.

That's embarrassing.

Screenshot_20200703-204656.thumb.jpg.392cc8cd37de714f5946657f7bf76d71.jpg

20200703_204621.thumb.png.450670e969cf539adff4315d93cc2abe.png

P.S Brother, If I was wrong I wouldn't have minded getting corrected. I don't have a big ego.

Edited by starlight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's worrying that many people who like Iranian government and their leaders are never ready to accept that they can do wrong. They will blindly defend the regime and accuse anyone and everyone who criticize them or questions them. Honestly, they remind me of hardcore Modi follower who will defend him at any cost. 

Gentle reminder: We have 14 infallibles. Only they are free from any mistake/sin. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Gentle reminder: We have 14 infallibles. Only they are free from any mistake/sin. 

Wait, I thought all the children of imam Ali (عليه السلام) and lady Fatima (عليه السلام) are infallible as well. Didn’t people say lady Fatima bint musa (عليه السلام) is infallible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Diaz said:

Wait, I thought all the children of imam Ali (عليه السلام) and lady Fatima (عليه السلام) are infallible as well. Didn’t people say lady Fatima bint musa (عليه السلام) is infallible?

The official status of infallibility is for only 14. There are couple others who don't have this official infallible status but they are so high in terms of piety that Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Aimma (عليهم اسلام) have taken guarantee. One such person, as you mentioned, is Janabe Fatema binte Musa (sa). 

Probably some other brother can give a better explanation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...