Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi Allah/God never forgives people that are committing suicide & your statement is a blatant lie that based on evangelist propaganda against Quran & Islam.

He said Allah simply forgives,  i said on certain conditions unlike your God who simply forgives by committing suicide. 

Edited by THREE1THREE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2020 at 4:58 AM, flyingeagle said:

"Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Deuteronomy 30:

8And you will return and listen to the voice of the Lord, and fulfill all His commandments, which I command you this day.

9And the Lord, your God, will make you abundant for good in all the work of your hands, in the fruit of your womb, in the fruit of your livestock, and in the fruit of your soil. For the Lord will once again rejoice over you for good, as He rejoiced over your forefathers,

10when you obey the Lord, your God, to observe His commandments and His statutes written in this Torah scroll, [and] when you return to the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

11For this commandment which I command you this day, is not concealed from you, nor is it far away.

12It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will go up to heaven for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?"

13Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "Who will cross to the other side of the sea for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?"

14Rather,[this] thing is very close to you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can fulfill it.

15Behold, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil,

16inasmuch as I command you this day to love the Lord, your God, to walk in His ways, and to observe His commandments, His statutes, and His ordinances, so that you will live and increase, and the Lord, your God, will bless you in the land to which you are coming to take possession of it.

17But if your heart deviates and you do not listen,  you will be drawn astray, and you will prostrate yourself to other deities and serve them,

18I declare to you this day, that you will surely perish, and that you will not live long days on the land, to which you are crossing the Jordan, to come and take possession thereof.

19This day, I call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses [that I have warned] you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. You shall choose life, so that you and your offspring will live;

20To love the Lord your God, to listen to His voice, and to cleave to Him. For that is your life and the length of your days, to dwell on the land which the Lord swore to your forefathers to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob to give to them.”

as for question regarding Pauline verse added in Mark and Mathew. See my recent reply in “is Jesus a liar or a madman” thread to Leslie P 

Edited by THREE1THREE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Flying_Eagle @THREE1THREE

Also on Daniel 7 (cause I noticed it mentioned), that very chapter itself gives a direct interpretation of what the vision means, an interpretation given by the Angel Gabriel:

But the court shall sit in judgment,
    and his dominion shall be taken away,
    to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
 And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High
;
their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
    and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’

(Daniel 7:26-27)

The Son Of Man, is the Nation of Israel (aka Jerusalem or Zion) themselves as per the text's self-interpretation. Remember also that in the Judeo-Christian context, the book of Daniel is also the one to unveil the interpretations of divine visions. 

When you read all of the passages where Jesus mentions "the son of man" in the new testament gospels through this light, suddenly many new realizations become known. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2020 at 5:28 AM, Dave follower of The Way said:

Could you tell me where you found this.  There are many scholars who say that there are over 300 prophesies in the Old Testament fulfilled by Jesus take a look at this website

Have of them are just wishful thinking I.e taken out of context. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2020 at 4:58 AM, flyingeagle said:

Jesus called himself the Son of Man, meaning "human," and did not say, "I am God," in order to shut down the accusations of the Pharisees, demonstrating that he was just a human prophet.

 

On 7/17/2020 at 12:04 AM, THREE1THREE said:

As for that incident we see jesus giving the paralyzed man good knews by saying, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

The Jews thought  of him being blasphemous saying such things 

8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 

over here we can see that Jesus questions them for having such thoughts of accusing him of blasphemy 

9Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?  The Jews knew very well only prophets can do such miracles and receive revelation regarding someone’s sins weather they are forgiven or not at this point the Jews didn’t answer then jesus goes further to clarify the matter.

So he said to the man, 11“I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 

At this point the Jews could only come to the conclusion that he is a prophet of God and is the messiah to come since he showed a clear miracle and jesus questioned their evil thoughts thus Deuteronomy 13 could not be applied to him. The people praised God for seeing such a marvellous incident and knew that he is definitely prophet of God since he has God given authority like the previous prophets. 

If Jesus was God he wouldn’t question their thoughts and clarify the matter, rather he would say he is God and case closed. 

Mathew 9:

4Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?

Mathew 9:

8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

my argument and explanation still stands as it can be seen.”

That’s the explanation without the Pauline verse added. How do you not see that. It shows Jesus is not God and also with the Pauline verse added it shows Jesus is not God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2020 at 1:32 PM, al-Muttaqin said:

@Flying_Eagle @THREE1THREE

Also on Daniel 7 (cause I noticed it mentioned), that very chapter itself gives a direct interpretation of what the vision means, an interpretation given by the Angel Gabriel:

But the court shall sit in judgment,
    and his dominion shall be taken away,
    to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
 And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High
;
their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
    and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’

(Daniel 7:26-27)

The Son Of Man, is the Nation of Israel (aka Jerusalem or Zion) themselves as per the text's self-interpretation. Remember also that in the Judeo-Christian context, the book of Daniel is also the one to unveil the interpretations of divine visions. 

When you read all of the passages where Jesus mentions "the son of man" in the new testament gospels through this light, suddenly many new realizations become known. 

Bro, I'm not that @flyingeagle :dry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2020 at 3:15 AM, Flying_Eagle said:

Bro, I'm not that @flyingeagle :dry:

Oops, sorry brother. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2020 at 10:08 AM, THREE1THREE said:

Have of them are just wishful thinking I.e taken out of context. 

Even if half are wishful thinking that leaves over 150 that were fulfilled.

On 7/18/2020 at 4:10 PM, THREE1THREE said:

How do you not see that. It shows Jesus is not God

Jesus did not come to earth to prove that he was God.  His mission was far greater he came so that people like you and me and the man in the story could have their sins forgiven and start a new life with a clean slate before God.  He came to defeat evil and the devil and the power of death.  Could a mere man do all these things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2020 at 9:32 AM, al-Muttaqin said:

 And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High
;
their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
    and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’

(Daniel 7:26-27)

The Son Of Man, is the Nation of Israel (aka Jerusalem or Zion) themselves as per the text's self-interpretation.

Hi There al-Muttaqin

I had a look at the verses you quote.  I'm not a Hebrew scholar - maybe you are - But as far as I could make out the majority of translations go like this:

The saints of the Most High whose kingdom ... serve and obey him.  The kingdom and obedience refer to God not the saints.  The translations which follow your version, according to my research, have to make some very complicated textual and lingustic arguments in order to translate the Hebrew that way.

The interesting thing is that Jesus used the term Son of Man for himself and refered to the verse in Daniel 7:13&14 by talking about "coming with the clouds of heaven"

13 ‘In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Note too that this verse is talking about 'him' not 'them'

When I read this passage, I ask myself who is worthy to have "authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him"

And whose kingdom is everlasting and will never be destroyed?

What is your answer to that question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Jesus did not come to earth to prove that he was God.  His mission was far greater he came so that people like you and me and the man in the story could have their sins forgiven and start a new life with a clean slate before God.  He came to defeat evil and the devil and the power of death.  Could a mere man do all these things?

Anyone who sincerely repents (returns to God) is like a new born baby where all his Sins have been forgiven by God. But still we can return to sinning, and still we return to repenting and we will be forgiven. We don't need sacrifice for it, even when sacrifice is also good thing.

Maimonides was right when he said:

"Even if a man has sinned his whole life, and repents on the day of his death, all his sins are forgiven him" (Maimonides, Yad, Teshuvah 2:1)

This is also in Qur'an:

God accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will God turn in mercy: For God is full of knowledge and wisdom. Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.

Soon means the time before the person dead.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Hi There al-Muttaqin

I had a look at the verses you quote.  I'm not a Hebrew scholar - maybe you are - But as far as I could make out the majority of translations go like this:

The saints of the Most High whose kingdom ... serve and obey him.  The kingdom and obedience refer to God not the saints.  The translations which follow your version, according to my research, have to make some very complicated textual and lingustic arguments in order to translate the Hebrew that way.

The interesting thing is that Jesus used the term Son of Man for himself and refered to the verse in Daniel 7:13&14 by talking about "coming with the clouds of heaven"

13 ‘In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Note too that this verse is talking about 'him' not 'them'

When I read this passage, I ask myself who is worthy to have "authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him"

And whose kingdom is everlasting and will never be destroyed?

What is your answer to that question?

Again: 

 And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High
;
their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
    and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’

(Daniel 7:26-27)

The Son Of Man, is the Nation of Israel (aka Jerusalem or Zion) themselves as per the text's self-interpretation.

Daniel didn't know how to interpret the vision (verses 9-14), Gabriel then gave a concise explanation about what the "Son of Man" is in the above passage. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER, STOP TAKING OUT OF CONTEXT. 

Once you finally get what Gabriel means in the passage from Daniel 7:15-28 where it is, again, literally explained for you it's meaning. 

After you have done that and now understand what the Son of Man is, then read what Jesus says in the context provided and everything makes perfect sense. 

Edited by al-Muttaqin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...