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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammad313Ali

Disbelievers Are Impure - inquiry

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4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam if you touch any part of body of disbeliever  with wet hand then you will become impure so you must make up your Wudu & Ghusl & everything  that disbelieve touches  with wet hand or his/her moisture from his/her body reaches to anything will become  impure that must be became pure by washing. 

 

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

impurity doesn't  mean being dirty .

I don't understand this, can you elaborate? Does a Muslim living in a crowded non-muslim city have to perform waddhu all the time? You're giving Muslims a clean status they don't deserve. I live in an Arab "Muslim" country where people immediately go back to being profane the moment they step out of a mosque for Jum'a prayer but they're pure because they're allegedly Muslims? 

As though we can tell who is a believer from a disbeliever... only God knows. 

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11 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

your inquiry here is about relations whilst the topic seems to be inquiring about whether kafir(disbelievers) are najis?

also you didn't provide source/reference from the Qur'an or AB(عليه السلام) to emphasize the being najis of disbelievers. example would be surah 80 Abasa He frowned, why? he shook the hand he deemed najis? 

do you even know what is Tauheed, Ikhlas, Sincerity of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

why would you be interested in those acts of others that they do such amals or not, why would it be of your concern, why? don't you know those acts are for Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), no you know this, are you donkeying?

35:8

like this deeming whatever, how do you live with yourself & trying to say that child is from a disbeliever family that one is... 

try this metaphor insha'Allah: 'the heart of the believer is between the two fingers of God' kafi v2 p353 & think where is the heart of the disbeliever?

okay, leave the hearts of the believers and disbelievers alone & ask where is your heart, swimming in ujb, kibr, arrogance, ignorance, guidance, humility... your heart is it of kufr or belief or?

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWjMHz_AT-NrhaqQxwMNs

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) didn't say people are najis, beware when inviting them.

please stop using ayatollah Sistani's name in vain, he's not Islam.

Bring Qur'an evidence that resonates with Iman(عليه السلام) insha'Allah.

Very good.

11 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

do you even know what is Tauheed, Ikhlas, Sincerity of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

@Mohammad313Ali

Edited by Shahrukh K

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@Mzwakhe To clarify I am not disagreeing or necessarily agreeing to the aforementioned points. I am simply listing that which was provided by the office of Sayed Sistani, nor am I seeking to put him in a bad light. How exactly am I putting him in a bad light if this ruling is accessible to the general public and he is a grand jurist? 

If anything he as a scholar which is emulated by millions within the west and east is needed to always be under the light, because his words are taken to be in proportion to a sublime religious authority. 

My questions is simple and clear, and so is my premise.

If we were to concur with the stance of Sayid Sistani that clearly shows the disbeliever is impure physically, as it is highlighted even their moisture and hair is considered impure how then can one even propagate the religion of Islam without clearly addressing this point in a rational manner?

I am not speaking of interactions, rather the implications of such a ruling. All I ask is for someone to provide reasoning for the inherent filth that a Kafir holds, even a child that has not even reached the age of maturity is considered physically impure! Allahu Akbar.

You asking me to provide context from the Quran is laughable, I am providing you with context from the website of Sayid Sistani, so are you asserting the grand ayatollah is not considerate of the Quranic context when issuing his rulings? 

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10 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

we even don't  agree with majority of sunnis in Halal food like fish

We have the same rulings like the Jews on fish laws

 

10 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

all them agree on impurity of disbelievers so don't  mix matter of people of book with 6 total disbelievers definition  that described at first post .

Kamal al-haydari and fadilullah say all people are pure irrespective of being believer or not.

 

Edited by THREE1THREE

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8 hours ago, A_A said:

I don't understand this, can you elaborate? Does a Muslim living in a crowded non-muslim city have to perform waddhu all the time? You're giving Muslims a clean status they don't deserve. I live in an Arab "Muslim" country where people immediately go back to being profane the moment they step out of a mosque for Jum'a prayer but they're pure because they're allegedly Muslims? 

As though we can tell who is a believer from a disbeliever... only God knows. 

If you come into wet contact with a najasah then you do not have to perform wudhu or ghusl. You simply have to wash that area in the way taught by Islamic law (refer to the book of laws written by the jurist you emulate). 

13 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam if you touch any part of body of disbeliever  with wet hand then you will become impure so you must make up your Wudu & Ghusl

There's no need for wudhu or ghusl.

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7 hours ago, The Straight Path said:

Salam alaykom

It is worth mentioning that Sayyed Sistani considers them impure as a matter of obligatory precaution.

Salaam, thank you for your whole post but I just checked the site and it didn't say obligatory precation. 

@Sumerian salaam bro, can you verify this, is it true that kafirs are najis based on obligatory precaution only, according to Sayyid sistani?

 

7 hours ago, The Straight Path said:

I asked Sheikh Mohammad al-Hilli a while ago about this topic and if I remember correctly he mentioned that the topic of the najasah of non-muslim is something that is discussed extensively among scholars today. It's not very unlikely that more scholars may change their opinion in the near future. Insh'Allah if this would be the correct opinion according to the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) then I hope this change will occur.

I have head the same too from another scholar, and I hope the exact same as you too. 

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16 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

I am not speaking of interactions

but implications?

16 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

You asking me to provide context from the Quran is laughable, I am providing you with context from the website of Sayid Sistani, so are you asserting the grand ayatollah is not considerate of the Quranic context when issuing his rulings? 

scholars have different opinions about the same issue sometimes, it might be different with other scholars.

With the Qur'an though it becomes easier for the lay, for Furqan is not attained @ school.

Now do you have Qur'anic sources to substantiate 'your implications'.

the other day one politician was saying to his nation, 'we have a covid19 crisis & also we have a larger crisis than covid19 which is sanctions as sanctions prevent access to medicine'... okay, isn't such medicine najis since it was cooked by najis individuals(kafirun)? oh why is trading sought with najis(kafirun)?

16 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

All I ask is for someone to provide reasoning for the inherent filth that a Kafir holds, even a child that has not even reached the age of maturity is considered physically impure! Allahu Akbar.

why don't you go ask where you got this from & also ask for Qur'anic sources...

an issue has appr 4 sources, one of those is individual endeavour, applying efforts to resolve using aql(which its diversity can't be broken here).

'aql' says physical impurities have an effect on spiritual purity, it is against it(spiritual purity). Now when that pre baligh who is impure dies, & returns to where? as Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is pure?

alhamdulillah, speaking of Purity, Ikhlas, Sincerity, Tauheed do you have any idea of what is referred to?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnPFJ6398ClNCgCawUrVr

 

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5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Salaam, thank you for your whole post but I just checked the site and it didn't say obligatory precation.

Salam

I know the website doesn't say so, the reason could be that Sayyed Sistani maybe didn't consider them as najis based on obligatory precaution before so they just haven't updated it yet. Or maybe they just missed putting that part when writing that page.

That's the reason I contacted his office to get it verified. I wrote to them using sistani.org. I've also got this confirmed by two scholars (Sheikh Mohammad al-Hilli and Sheikh Safdar Razi here in Sweden).

 

Edited by The Straight Path

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14 hours ago, The Straight Path said:

Salam

I know the website doesn't say so, the reason could be that Sayyed Sistani maybe didn't consider them as najis based on obligatory precaution before so they just haven't updated it yet. Or maybe they just missed putting that part when writing that page.

That's the reason I contacted his office to get it verified. I wrote to them using sistani.org. I've also got this confirmed by two scholars (Sheikh Mohammad al-Hilli and Sheikh Safdar Razi here in Sweden).

 

Oh wow brother, thanks for sharing this information. Ayatollah Makarem it is! :] (Lol jk will still try my best to follow the precaution).

Edited by AStruggler

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On 6/27/2020 at 3:02 PM, A_A said:

Does a Muslim living in a crowded non-muslim city have to perform waddhu all the time?

Salam , I didn't  mean it & it's a general ruling about any unbleiver but if they call themselves Christians or Jews or residents of  Christian or Jew country so we consider everyone  of them as people of book except that someone  publicly calls himself as disbeliever or Atheist & etc or from non Abrahamic  religions like Buddhist & etc but generally we consider all of them as people of book that you must follow fatwa of your marja about them not my opinion. 

On 6/27/2020 at 3:02 PM, A_A said:

As though we can tell who is a believer from a disbeliever... only God knows.

we judge just based on their public statement not our investigation about their mindset & their personal belief so if someone or community  calls themselves as people of book then it's enough to consider whole of them as people  of book & doesn't  need more investigation to find out one by one belief except themselves add more details about individual  disbelievers among themselves.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 6/26/2020 at 10:13 PM, Mohammad313Ali said:

Kaffirs or disbelievers are deemed to be Najis

Who actually are pure? It seems to me that everyone is impure, only the ones who are purified by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are the Tahireen ((عليه السلام))

فَلَا تُزَكُّوا أَنفُسَكُمْ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَنِ اتَّقَى
Do not attribute purity to your soul; He knows him best who guards (against evil). 

So I am a Muslims, but I cannot attribute purity to my self as per above command, does this means I should consider myself impure? 

 

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On 6/26/2020 at 12:32 PM, Mohammad313Ali said:

Believing in a fellow humans inferiority, due to their inherent impurity that will remain with them as long as they have not reached the same theological conclusion as yourself is bound to breed arrogance.

It has with every religion. Every religion has a take over policy. You can't be right unless everyone else is wrong, 99% right isn't right enough. Some feel their religion is worth dying for, others feel it's worth killing for.

I've been to many churches, (of similar denominations even), only to hear them give their one extra morsel of truth nobody else seems to know, and then watch them swell with pride.  

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On 6/29/2020 at 12:41 PM, Logic1234 said:

So I am a Muslims, but I cannot attribute purity to my self as per above command, does this means I should consider myself impure?

Salam I think no , anyway in everyday life we face impurity  of world during day that we are affecting by it's impurity  but in other hand night time mentioned as time of asking forgiveness  that will lead to purification  of our soul which because  of that the Salat al layl is highly recommended  for total purification of our souls.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 6/29/2020 at 10:11 AM, Logic1234 said:


فَلَا تُزَكُّوا أَنفُسَكُمْ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَنِ اتَّقَى
Do not attribute purity to your soul; He knows him best who guards (against evil). 

So I am a Muslims, but I cannot attribute purity to my self as per above command, does this means I should consider myself impure? 

no.

it's like the incapability to define Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), like somewhere tis written like do not try to 'imagine' Him(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) due to being limited.

Purity according to Him(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) hence it will be easier to fall into error when attributing such to the selves.

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Thank you for your responses to my question. There is another issue, according to a hadith of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) "every child born, is born on fitrah" what does it means? I mean to say what is the state of newly born child? Is he born impure or pure irrespective of his/her belonging to his kafir or mo'min parents? 

Secondly, impurity is of two types. The bodily impurity, which we used to remove by doing ghusl or wudu, other is the spiritual impurity. I think, this topic is about the spiritual impurity which can only be achieved by gaining the ma'rifah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

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3 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

I think, this topic is about the spiritual impurity which can only be achieved by gaining the ma'rifah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

so how would you know that you have gained it (ma'rifah), & how would you know who else has it?

& is limited to Islam?

Edited by Mzwakhe

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On 7/2/2020 at 2:44 AM, Logic1234 said:

I think, this topic is about the spiritual impurity which can only be achieved by gaining the ma'rifah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

This is wrong, ma'rifah of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not an advanced subject, like Furqan it is through His(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mercy, it can't be that by gaining it then you'll achieve spiritual impurity.

Edited by Hameedeh
funny emoticon removed

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On 7/1/2020 at 12:28 AM, Son of Placid said:

and then watch them swell with pride

plus their coffers swell as well :shifty:, accumulating... 

by whose permission you think?

Edited by Mzwakhe
emoji?

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12 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

plus their coffers swell as well :shifty:, accumulating... 

by whose permission you think?

Most were smaller protestant churches. Not so much about profits. The majority of these churches also own a parsonage, a home for the Pastor. He's paid enough to live. 
You may be thinking Catholic, or evangelicals.

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21 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Most were smaller protestant churches. Not so much about profits. The majority of these churches also own a parsonage, a home for the Pastor. He's paid enough to live. 
You may be thinking Catholic, or evangelicals.

swelling of coffers is not limited to money? you mentioned pride that swells, i'll mention a false ideology that they might have, which contradicts the creed & it too swells?

in another sermon on the radio inside a taxi, the point was satan(la) is looking to prevent blessings from reaching people, where God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) talks of tithe & blessings whilst not giving tithe is satanic works for satan(la) is looking to make people buy everything even divine blessings which are free naturally. Not everything is for sale.

Well, 

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَلْبِسُونَ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُونَ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

3:71. "O' People of the Book! Why do you confound the Truth with falsehood and hide the Truth while you know (it)?" 

is not limited to 'people of the book'

وَآمِنُواْ بِمَا أَنزَلْتُ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا مَعَكُمْ وَلاَ تَكُونُواْ أَوَّلَ كَافِرٍ بِهِ وَلاَ تَشْتَرُواْ بِآيَاتِي ثَمَناً قَلِيلاً وَإِيَّايَ فَاتَّقُونِ

وَلاَ تَلْبِسُواْ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُواْ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

41. "And believe in what I have revealed (the Qur'an), confirming that (Scripture) which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, and sell not My Signs for a miserable price; and be in awe of none but Me."
42. "And confound not the truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth while you know (it)." Cow

So then those that swell whatever, silly satans who are hypocritically obstinate ignore this... 

 أيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اجْتَنِبُوا كَثِيرًا مِّنَ الظَّنِّ إِنَّ بَعْضَ الظَّنِّ إِثْمٌ وَلَآ تَجَسَّسُوا وَلَآ يَغْتَب بَّعْضُكُم بَعْضًا أيُحِبُّ أحَدُكُمْ أن يَأكُلَ لَحْمَ أخِيهِ مَيْتًا فَكَرِهْتُمُوهُ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ تَوَّابٌ رَّحِيمٌ

12. O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion. Indeed some suspicions are sins. And spy not [on others], neither backbite one another. 49 &

27. "O' children of Adam! Let not Satan... Surely he sees you, he and his Tribe, from where you do not see them. We have made the Satans the friends of those who do not believe." 7

okay am loosing this, argh, alhamdulillah it's back.

On those 'divine blessings', 

وَإِن يَمْسَسْكَ اللّهُ بِضُرٍّ فَلاَ كَاشِفَ لَهُ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَإِن يَمْسَسْكَ بِخَيْرٍ فَهُوَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدُيرٌ

17. "And if Allah touches you with affliction, none can remove it but He; and if He touches you with good, then He is All-Powerful over all things." al an'am

alhamdulillah am lost again in this

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On 7/6/2020 at 8:33 PM, Mzwakhe said:

a false ideology

a false ideology swelling would be the more a stranger prays another stranger thinks he's a government of a foreign country... 

Strange? No, that's what happens when Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) leaves pretenders in the company of the shayatin(la).

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On 6/27/2020 at 4:43 PM, The Straight Path said:

It is worth mentioning that Sayyed Sistani considers them impure as a matter of obligatory precaution.

This is quite strange. I asked I scholar I trust about this issue and he said that this isn't true. According to Sayyid Sistani's Minhaj us Saliheen their impurity is a normal wajib not wajib ihtiyat. 

I will ask a direct question to their office as well. 

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On 6/28/2020 at 3:45 AM, Mzwakhe said:

why don't you go ask where you got this from & also ask for Qur'anic sources

I got this from the website of Sayid Sistani, also not all matters of jurisprudence can be found within the Quran, therefore we need to ask the people of remembrance.

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11 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

we

who is 'we'

11 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

the people of remembrance.

who are they & where are they?

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11 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

who is 'we'

The people the Quran is addressing. 

 

11 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

who are they & where are they?

The Ahlulbayt are the people of remembrance, from the Quran and their teachings are where the scholars derive their rulings, therefore, to refer back to the people of remembrance would be to refer back to those who are keepers of the knowledge of the people of remembrance. We have many examples where our Imams would trust scholars by sending them to foreign lands in order to answer the inquiries of the people pertaining to jurisprudence, etc.

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On 6/27/2020 at 7:45 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

impure means dirty, which is doesn’t.

salam alykum wrwb,

some of the impurities are dirty whilst others are not like the wetness of the dog's fur.

would you kindly elaborate what you mean by 'impure is not dirty'?

ws

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On 6/27/2020 at 1:00 PM, AStruggler said:

Those of the people of the book (ahle kitab) can be considered pure though (Christians, Jews).

Debated among the ulama. The mashoor (famous) opinion among the jurists historically is they are najis. 

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