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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammad313Ali

Disbelievers Are Impure - inquiry

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I have looked into the definition of a Kafir as provided by Sayed Sistani, as well as what constitutes a Kafir in jurisprudence, it appears that there are many classifications as to those who may be deemed Kafir, albeit certain degrees of Kufur may differ from one classification to another.

Kaffirs or disbelievers are deemed to be Najis and therefore according to the Sayid their entire body is impure, including their hair and moisture.

Those who are impure:

1. A person who does not believe in the oneness of Allah

2. Extremists (Ghulat)

3. Those who say that Allah has immanence in the Imam

4. Those who show enmity towards the Imams or Prophet(s)

5. Rejecting indispensable acts such as prayer, fasting, in a way that amounts to refuting the Prophet and Islam

6.  A child who is not of legal responsibility i.e Baligh, who lives with a disbeliever family and is not (Mumayyiz) gifted to profess Islam is likewise deemed impure. 

All these are according to Sayed Sistani, my inquiry is how can one even realistically function within a society, especially in the west if everyone they come in contact with is considered a disbeliever and impure to intermingle with?

Us as Muslims how many times have we been extremists in our love for the Ahlulbayt? How many times have we through our actions shown enmity towards the Imams and Prophet, and how have we through our own ego sought to refute the decree of Allah through the tongue of his vicegerents?

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3 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Us as Muslims how many times have we been extremists in our love for the Ahlulbayt?

Never. I never have been an extremist and I never will be, and I hope that every person posting on this site can say the same.

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56 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

One can function quite normally. There's nothing that prevents one from living their daily lives and interacting in an appropriate manner with those who are around them. 

Obviously marriage is not possible and friendship is probably not advised but one can still maintain their etiquette. 

Believing in a fellow humans inferiority, due to their inherent impurity that will remain with them as long as they have not reached the same theological conclusion as yourself is bound to breed arrogance.

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51 minutes ago, THREE1THREE said:

Not all scholars are in a agreement in that area 

Could you kindly share the opinions of other scholars

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19 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Believing in a fellow humans inferiority, due to their inherent impurity that will remain with them as long as they have not reached the same theological conclusion as yourself is bound to breed arrogance.

One doesn't have to see it as an inferiority, but simply as a difference in choice. 

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3 hours ago, Rauf Murtuzov said:

It is halal for men to marry a girl from Ahli-Kitab (Jews and Christians). Do you see Ahli-Kitab as impure too?

Yes, but a woman cannot marry a man from book peeps.

Why that is, I have no clue.

As for do I see Christians and Jews as impure? No, not at all. I don't see any human being as "impure" in and of themselves.

Can they do impure things or things that will break ritual purity? Absolutely, but so can Muslims.

This brings a question to my mind about ritual purity: Can Christians and Jews be ritually pure if they perform a wudhu or ghusl? I ask because a Jewish girlfriend in high school had asked me to put on a kippah before entering the synagogue with her.

Maybe someone has the answer

Edited by Abdul-Hadi
Answer your second Q

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25 minutes ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

This brings a question to my mind about ritual purity: Can Christians and Jews be ritually pure if they perform a wudhu or ghusl? I ask because a Jewish girlfriend in high school had asked me to put on a kippah before entering the synagogue with her.

Maybe someone has the answer

wudhu and ghusl is ibadah

ibadah of non-muslims doesn't count

Ahli Kitab are those who are ideologically Ahli Kitab

There many people who says they are Christians in the West, but they don't even believe existence of God.

Edited by Rauf Murtuzov

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3 hours ago, Rauf Murtuzov said:

There many people who says they are Christians in the West, but they don't even believe existence of God.

This might have been the case twenty years ago, but people will now openly tell you that they are atheists or simply "nones".

The atheism thing picked up around here circa 2010 and now it's clear that Christianity has all but failed America. At least to me, that seems to be a result of the Christian leaders that American society has had through the 1970s to now-- with the close ties to the Republican party in the 80s and the prosperity gospel thing they pushed really hard to bolster American financial capitalism from that time on. Of course, all of the scandals of said leaders didn't help much either in the eyes of your average working class American.

Now you can't even go to church in many places of America due to COVID-19, which I think was definitely part of the plan to further undermine American religion and culture by the liberals and the leftist movements (Black Lives Matter©) during the Barack O-bomber administration. They first used the popular culture, then after that phase was done, they had the newsmedia begin openly denigrating Christians and Christianity, tried to force so-called "gay marriage" in churches and on private businesses owned by Christians, and now everyone stands around scratching their heads as to why my generation and the one after me have no semblance of morals anymore. It should be pretty obvious that if you take the majority religion out of society and fail to replace it with another one or even some sort of objective moral standard, that you end up with a cultural sewer & even worse young people.

This was instrumental in my pursuit of Islam-- if I can't find a church that stands for anything anymore, I'll look for that concrete objectivity in other places... like at a masjid and among Muslims.

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1 hour ago, Rauf Murtuzov said:

It is halal for men to marry a girl from Ahli-Kitab (Jews and Christians). Do you see Ahli-Kitab as impure too?

Actually according to Shi'i fiqh a muslim man can only permanently marry a muslim woman. 

Temporary marriage with women of the book is permitted. 

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3 hours ago, shia farm girl said:

As salaamun aleikum,

Muslim women are not allowed to marry non muslim men because islam has laid out the responsibilities for a muslim man to his wife very clearly, whereas the other religions havent. The rights a muslim man has to afford his wife are numerous and if not executed by the man is a sin. Islam has taken the safety of women, thise physical and spiritual in nature, extremely seriously and therfore the only way to give a woman a fair shot is for her to marry a pious, observant muslim man.

(Thanks for your contribution on this site. I always find it informative.)

W/s

So by that logic then, and I'm actually in agreement with you & believe that you're correct; the supposed restrictions on women's rights throughout the "muslim world" has more to do with culture and not much (if anything) to do with Islam itself.

Related to the above--

This is always a topic that confused me, but I appreciate yours and most other user's patience with me while I learn this faith. People have no idea how difficult it is to just pick up and begin to adhere to a new religion and I probably beat myself up far too much and let the devil whisper in my ear to discourage me in my practice of Islam. The thing is, the thoughts feel so organic and real to me, like they come from either me or God (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) himself (You aren't saying the prayers properly, you aren't doing this/you're still doing that, etc etc)-- It's that accusatory thought pattern that discourages me and oftentimes makes me want to throw my hands up and quit altogether, but then I find a post from someone who is "Oh I'm going to quit praying/my x is invalid because of y and I don't know what to do, etc etc"

I feel like if I had a community of believers to be around in the real world, that I'd feel less discouraged because then I'd have the guidance and fellowship, but for now, it's just me.

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4 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

One doesn't have to see it as an inferiority, but simply as a difference in choice. 

A difference in choice which compels you to look at someone as impure? Literally. 

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I don’t understand why they would be deemed physically impure, does believing in Allah and the Prophet just by saying the two testimonies rid you of a certain detestable germ? All I see is a belief that encourages Muslims to feel a sense of superiority towards the non-Muslim who may genuinely be interested in Islam at a point in their life or is struggling in their own path to guidance. All this will lead to is arrogance and a heightened sense of egotism. I can share a dozen anecdotes on how perceiving disbelievers as physically impure cretins carries very negative connotations, but I am sure everyone can easily imagine the problematic scenarios that occur.

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7 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

All these are according to Sayed Sistani, my inquiry is how can one even realistically function within a society, especially in the west if everyone they come in contact with is considered a disbeliever and impure to intermingle with?

your inquiry here is about relations whilst the topic seems to be inquiring about whether kafir(disbelievers) are najis?

also you didn't provide source/reference from the Qur'an or AB(عليه السلام) to emphasize the being najis of disbelievers. example would be surah 80 Abasa He frowned, why? he shook the hand he deemed najis? 

7 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

1. A person who does not believe in the oneness of Allah

do you even know what is Tauheed, Ikhlas, Sincerity of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

7 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

5. Rejecting indispensable acts such as prayer, fasting, in a way that amounts to refuting the Prophet and Islam

why would you be interested in those acts of others that they do such amals or not, why would it be of your concern, why? don't you know those acts are for Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), no you know this, are you donkeying?

35:8

7 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

6.  A child who is not of legal responsibility i.e Baligh, who lives with a disbeliever family and is not (Mumayyiz) gifted to profess Islam is likewise deemed impure. 

like this deeming whatever, how do you live with yourself & trying to say that child is from a disbeliever family that one is... 

try this metaphor insha'Allah: 'the heart of the believer is between the two fingers of God' kafi v2 p353 & think where is the heart of the disbeliever?

okay, leave the hearts of the believers and disbelievers alone & ask where is your heart, swimming in ujb, kibr, arrogance, ignorance, guidance, humility... your heart is it of kufr or belief or?

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWjMHz_AT-NrhaqQxwMNs

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) didn't say people are najis, beware when inviting them.

please stop using ayatollah Sistani's name in vain, he's not Islam.

Bring Qur'an evidence that resonates with Iman(عليه السلام) insha'Allah.

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36 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

I don’t understand why they would be deemed physically impure, does believing in Allah and the Prophet just by saying the two testimonies rid you of a certain detestable germ? All I see is a belief that encourages Muslims to feel a sense of superiority towards the non-Muslim who may genuinely be interested in Islam at a point in their life or is struggling in their own path to guidance. All this will lead to is arrogance and a heightened sense of egotism. I can share a dozen anecdotes on how perceiving disbelievers as physically impure cretins carries very negative connotations, but I am sure everyone can easily imagine the problematic scenarios that occur.

What you said is the answer. To believe that the biological makeup of someone is altered by their faith in God is a laughable notion. Faith cannot be physically measured as though it were a substance secreted by the body. Faith is a spiritual element. To call someone "nejes" (impure) is an insult in Arabic which implies that they are no different to dogs. There is no compulsion in religion and superiority is based on piety but not like this, where people are degraded to the level of a dog in such a literal sense. 

Edited by A_A

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4 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Actually according to Shi'i fiqh a muslim man can only permanently marry a muslim woman. 

Temporary marriage with women of the book is permitted. 

I think there is a difference of opinion among the scholars on this, although all of course say it is preferabe to marry a Muslim woman. The following thread (among others) contains some references to scholars who say it is permitted: 

 

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5 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Actually according to Shi'i fiqh a muslim man can only permanently marry a muslim woman. 

Temporary marriage with women of the book is permitted. 

Debated, even today. Some ulama said no marriage is allowed with a non-Muslimah, some said temporary only, and some said both temporary and permanent is allowed.

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9 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

I have looked into the definition of a Kafir as provided by Sayed Sistani, as well as what constitutes a Kafir in jurisprudence, it appears that there are many classifications as to those who may be deemed Kafir, albeit certain degrees of Kufur may differ from one classification to another.

Kaffirs or disbelievers are deemed to be Najis and therefore according to the Sayid their entire body is impure, including their hair and moisture.

Those who are impure:

1. A person who does not believe in the oneness of Allah

2. Extremists (Ghulat)

3. Those who say that Allah has immanence in the Imam

4. Those who show enmity towards the Imams or Prophet(s)

5. Rejecting indispensable acts such as prayer, fasting, in a way that amounts to refuting the Prophet and Islam

6.  A child who is not of legal responsibility i.e Baligh, who lives with a disbeliever family and is not (Mumayyiz) gifted to profess Islam is likewise deemed impure. 

All these are according to Sayed Sistani, my inquiry is how can one even realistically function within a society, especially in the west if everyone they come in contact with is considered a disbeliever and impure to intermingle with?

Us as Muslims how many times have we been extremists in our love for the Ahlulbayt? How many times have we through our actions shown enmity towards the Imams and Prophet, and how have we through our own ego sought to refute the decree of Allah through the tongue of his vicegerents?

https://www.al-islam.org/ritual-and-spiritual-purity-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/i-najasat-taharat

This should perfectly answer your questions^

Read section E, "Our Outlook Towards the Najasat"

Edited by AStruggler

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8 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Believing in a fellow humans inferiority, due to their inherent impurity that will remain with them as long as they have not reached the same theological conclusion as yourself is bound to breed arrogance.

It may, but one doesn't have to look at "Najasat" like it's some evil... 

Blood is najis, yet we cannot survive without it in our bodies. 

Semen is najis, but man originated from a sperm cell. 

You just can't perform a valid prayer and stuff if your body and/or clothes come into wet contact with it (until you wash it off).

@Mohammad313Ali @A_A

Edited by AStruggler

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2 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

@Haydar Husayn I would appreciate your input on the relevant topic brother 

Personally, I don't believe the kuffar are najis, as the evidence doesn't seem overwhelmingly compelling (and I suspect fewer scholars would hold to this position if they had to live in non-Muslim countries). Having said that, even if one does hold that view, this would be a ritual impurity, not a physical one. Nobody to my knowledge claims that you are literally physically cleaner or dirtier depending on what you believe, so any talk of germs of biology is way off the mark. It's got nothing to do with that.

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@Haydar Husayn @Sumerian Indeed there are different views. I should have clarified that I was referring to the conservative/precautionary view on the topic. 

1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Having said that, even if one does hold that view, this would be a ritual impurity, not a physical one

Yes I think this is being misunderstood in this thread. We are discussing spiritual purity. 

Tawheed is not to be taken lightly. It not just an idea or a thought. It shouldn't come as a surprise that is has such a fundamental impact on our spiritual purity. 

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2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

this would be a ritual impurity, not a physical one.

Salam if you touch any part of body of disbeliever  with wet hand then you will become impure so you must make up your Wudu & Ghusl & everything  that disbelieve touches  with wet hand or his/her moisture from his/her body reaches to anything will become  impure that must be became pure by washing. 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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9 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Actually according to Shi'i fiqh a muslim man can only permanently marry a muslim woman. 

 

Again not all jurists are in agreement, an example is ayatollah al-khoi and also fadilullah. 

Careful when commenting on touchy subjects put into consideration other jurists. 

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11 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Could you kindly share the opinions of other scholars

Sayyed kamal al-haydari, I remember my uncle reading for me in Arabic, which the sayyed explicitly says all humans are tahar and are born tahar. Another one is by sayyed fadilullah who also has the same opinion as sayyed kamal al-haydari. 

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16 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam if you touch any part of body of disbeliever  with wet hand then you will become impure so you must make up your Wudu & Ghusl & everything  that disbelieve touches  with wet hand or his/her moisture from his/her body reaches to anything will become  impure that must be became pure by washing. 

Yes, if you hold to the view that they are impure, but the point is some people on here are talking like impure means dirty, which is doesn’t.

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@Haydar Husayn it's a common law about impurity of disbeliever that is a common law between Sunnis & Shia but defining disbeliever is controversial also impurity doesn't  mean being dirty .

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9 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

@Haydar Husayn it's a common law about impurity of disbeliever that is a common law between Sunnis & Shia but defining disbeliever is controversial also impurity doesn't  mean being dirty .

I’m pretty sure that the majority Sunni position is that non-believers are in principle tahir, and that is also the view of some Shia scholars.

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@Haydar Husayn we even don't  agree with majority of sunnis in Halal food like fish also Shia scholars have different views about purity or impurity of people of book but all them agree on impurity of disbelievers so don't  mix matter of people of book with 6 total disbelievers definition  that described at first post .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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